Frazzle

i think it proves he dosent know his left from his right. And Championship standard? That is what you think isn't it?

I'd much rather the same shitty top 4 again this season than watch other teams break into the top 4 whilst we fight for our lives just to stay in the league. Only 6 years ago it was us. True. Agreed, brummie. Fantastic support by your lot. But of course according to Sky Liverpool fans are the best... In my eyes, I think NUFC have the best support in the league but Villa fans are right behind us. Villa fans? They couldn't fill their stadium a few seasons ago, were getting a fair few 30,000 gates and even less then 30,000 once.

Was he? Was he not? Coloccini was an absolute beast for Depor especially in his last 2 seasons. Last season gets a special mention because he was brilliant. Yeah, I know he was good. fading star was just spouting crap and I wanted him to defend himself.

Was he? Was he not?

I thought he was outstanding yesterday. Missed a few chances, but was definitely always a threat and made some good chances from nothing. His penalty wasn't great but not the worst I've seen from our lot. outstanding,...lol,...see you in the championship,....his level. Drugs are bad kids.

Sorry but how is this a bad thing?

A history lesson - before we're history... One year ago today, we went to Birmingham City for a Premier League game - the first of nine fixtures that would ultimately decide our top-flight destiny. Before kickoff, we sat in 14th spot, with 28 points and on a run of just one victory in our last 13 outings. Twelve months later, we're again left with nine games to play, sitting on 29 points and clinging to 16th place, with three wins in our last 13 games. Although that visit to St.Andrews brought only a draw, there was a sense that the rot had been stopped, the side had finally worked out that they were in the proverbial - and were starting to react. Fifteen points from those remaining nine games were then gathered, thanks to a trio of home wins, three away draws and success at Spurs. This time round our fixture list is trickier and the dogfight at the bottom of the league so much tighter, but the opportunity to decide our own destiny still remains. PS: Owen's role that night was behind a front two of Martins and Viduka - a role he filled to good effect. With the Australian out of the equation this time round, what price a rerun of the tactic with Carroll as the muscle? Lets hope Hughton reads .com

Well you've been wrong for a while, no-one can deny his importance to the team, even fans of other teams rate him. And Maradona and Basile apparently. I dont give a flying horses arse what Maradona or Basile think. When he pulls on the Newcastle shirt, he's been very very average. Works his arse off granted, but from a wide man you want good crosses into the box and to chip in with 5-8 goals a year. I'm not seeing it. I'm a sucker for a hard worker , so try to forgive Jonas for his other negatives.

Well you've been wrong for a while, no-one can deny his importance to the team, even fans of other teams rate him. And Maradona and Basile apparently.

Given my heaps of happiness in the past and to a lesser extent still now. It's like having a relative who you haven't seen in ages and so they haven't done anything for you, doesn't mean you don't love them anymore, same if they go off the rails, you still love them deep down even if you hate them for a bit. If your love of the club changed with a different owner/manager or w/e then you never loved the club in first place IMO.

He's not a YTS apprentice Skirge, he's a full Argentinian international for God's sake!!! Don't get me wrong, I like Jonas, but his end product is piss poor for us. I've been looking at his stats and one site says he's provided 4 assists and another says 2 assists, whatever the total is it's just not good enough for a player of his undoubted ability. He's pretty crap really. Good close skills and beats the odd man, but hardly any end product to speak of. Also lately he's started giving the ball away a lot. Yeh he must be - so crap he's been picked for Argentina, and we all know how crap they are as a whole. Player plays for Argentina so he must be alright. He does next to nothing for us. What he does for us is what we're discussing not whether he plays for Argentina. 4 assist and 0 goals in 22 odd games. Bernard Mendy has more. Assists as a stat don't really mean anything. Take C.Ronaldo last season, I think he had about 10 assists last season, yet he would've been heavily involved in about 15-20 more goals without having an assist. As they say...there's lies, damned lies and statistics.

why? Its not about having a duty for me, its that I can't help loving the club. I couldn't support another team and so I have to accept Newcastle may be **** for however long.

Worked fine against Pompey, they just need a decent midfield backing them up i.e. we need Guthrie back.

Dunno how he's scoring cos he's fatter than Viduka. He jumped on a fence to celebrate his goal the other day and pulled it down.

They know a good player when they see one? Milner would be in the Argentina side as well to be fair. Probably keep Messi out of the team. Question for those who don't seem to rate Jonas, would you sell him in the summer? And how much for?

Thank God Keegan didn't have that opinion last season else we might not be talking about relegation this season, because we might have done it a year earlier instead. things have changed Exactly. Owen's goals to games ratio is even better this season.

I don't see how the club can be a reflection of the city, especially playing style, which you mentioned. What about cities with two clubs how does that work? Most stuff you've said is just rubbish digs at Ashley.

Trick question....?

What the club stands for? The club stands for its ingrained history and the city. It's about sticking by your team, for me that is local pride, my town, my roots. For others it's about choice but even then I would be surprised if anyone outside the odd fickle cretin would switch to another club. He's saying this club is starting to not represent the city any more, that's his point. I'd agree with the idea that if Ashley/Llambias take it down the route of hyper-commercialisation and hyper sterilise the place so as to make it 'fit for consumers', then it wouldn't stand for the city, it would just stand for a business registered with Companies House. A new club would then more likely possess the soul of Newcastle United. (I'm not getting into whether this is what Ashley/Llambias are doing - just talking about the principle). Forgive me, but bollox would it possess the soul of Newcastle United. Lets forget the usual overeaction that this thread seems to be embracing (there are always ups and downs), we have had it much worse and history has shown Newcastle United, our club, will always come through. Do you understand that that's what fs is going on about, now, at least? You both agree the club should represent the city, culture, history and any of that s***. He's just arguing that it could not do at some point, and you're saying that's impossible. It doesn't make him fickle if he thinks the best way he can support the tradition of Milburn, Gallagher et al is by not doing it through Ashley's business - taking him at his word, he's seen worse performances/finances/football; that's not what's lacking. As ever, I hope you're right on the last point. I expect you are, too. Ozzie makes a valid point. Tron misses the point. I started supporting the club when we were getting gates of 11,000, and have stuck with it because the club has always reflected the good things about Newcastle. Winning or losing has never really been the point. Now the club has virtually nothing to do with Newcastle. Not even the style of play reflects what the club used to be about. 40,000 supporters walk out on SBR. Local lads giving everything they’ve got get slated on supporters messageboards. The crowd boos more than it sings. And then comes along Mr Ashley. Shepherd was a clown but he cared about Newcastle. This bloke doesn’t give a s*** about our city. How did the club, in the past, representing the good things about Newcastle? Shepherd cared for Newcastle? ;D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddy_Shepherd#News_of_the_World_Expos.C3.A9

Ashley is tearing the heart out of NUFC. Basically the only thing left worth supporting is the name. Where's the pride in that? Because we are worse than we once were? What is taking away that was there before? What else would you support other than the name? Players come and go, same goes for fans, managers and owners, the name is all that ever stays. A concept, a philosophy, the embodiment of cultural pride? Who knows, but people don’t support a collection of letters. What was our philosophy pre-Ashley and what is it now?

Ashley is tearing the heart out of NUFC. Basically the only thing left worth supporting is the name. Where's the pride in that? Because we are worse than we once were? What is taking away that was there before? What else would you support other than the name? Players come and go, same goes for fans, managers and owners, the name is all that ever stays.

What did it stand for pre-Ashley? Oh that’s a complex question. One that requires leaps of faith and a bit of patience… totally unsuited for the robust nit picking on here. The answer also varies from person to person, though most would share a some deep rooted common ground. Ask yourself why you actively support Newcastle United. And if the answer is something simple like because I was born there, ask yourself again. After that you’ll have to work it out for yourself. What's your answer to this question then? I only asked originally because it seemed you were talking rubbish, and I got the exact answer I expected: obscure non-specifics.

What did it stand for pre-Ashley?

Kinnear was called a xenophobe the other day. Homophobe now?

Not as thick as you and a damn sight richer. Great argument. Conjecture on both counts, you do know what that means don't you? Edit- cba