Paullow

Good to see WBA doing well. They've won 5 of their last 6 games, or 22 points from their last 10 games, currently in 5th after Southampton went back above them this evening. 8 clean sheets in their last 11 games as well. Big game on Sky at 12.30pm on Saturday at home to Leicester, who have stuttered a bit recently. Obviously no PL match on TNT / BT at that time as our match was moved to 8pm, so I will definitely tune in. Hopefully they keep doing well, as if so, with them Leicester, Ipswich Leeds, and Southampton, it will be pretty hard for Sunderland to get top 6. They actually play Sunderland a week on Saturday.

The group winners are starting to look a lot clearer now Group A - Bayern confirmed (anyone could finish 2nd) Group B - Arsenal confirmed (PSV second) Group C - Real Madrid confirmed (Napoli 2nd) Group D - Shoot out between Inter and Sociedad, Sociedad just need a point, but Inter at home - will be confirmed before Dortmund play PSG Group E - Shoot out between At Madrid and Lazio - AM at home and just need a point, so big favourites Group G - Man City confirmed (Leipzig 2nd) Group H - Barca 99.99% confirmed, 2nd either Porto or Shakhtar (Barca would have to lose to Antwerp and be a 7 goal swing with Shakhtar beating Porto) So from Dortmund's perspective if they lose to Paris, they get one of Arsenal, Real Madrid, Man City, Barcelona, probably At Madrid, and one of Inter/Real Soc If they don't lose they would get one of Copenhagen/Gala/ Man U (less likely), PSV, Napoli, Inter/Real Soc, probably Lazio, Porto/Shakhtar Some decent teams who will likely be runners up, but it's clearly a massive advantage for them to top the group and draw one of the absolute favourites. I mean there will be a small chance they get a more favourable tie on paper by finishing 2nd, like say if Real Soc or Lazio won their group, but generally much more likely to get a really tough match. They won't be totally devastated if they lost, as they will have still advanced from a really tough group, but it's clearly worth their while to get something from their final game.

Always give these videos a watch when they lose at home. The last one I watched was Boro at home at the start of October. Back then they had won 6 and drawn 1 of their last 8 and in a pretty good position. A lot of their fans were saying they'll finish 2nd in the predictions before the match, fast forward 8 weeks and only 7 points in their last 8 games, now some are saying no chance of playoffs.

It would actually be 7 in a row, marra.

Was just about to post the exact same thing

Fantastic game to watch, and whatever happens, at least Man Utd have been in a proper match. I had fears they would have been 3-0 up after their good start and the match fizzle out and could just have Saturday's game in mind.

All gone to pot since they brought the young lad on.

Na, they know if PSG win, PSG will defo top the group, regardless of score due to H2H, so there is at least something to play for, and there isn't a perfect result to suit either side, which is a bonus, but it probably will be treated as the least important of their aforementioned 6 matches in quick succession, and to be fair, with 3 wins in a row, 2 of them away, they've kind of earned the right to do how they please.

Dortmund do have a winter break coming up but their schedule for the next 3 week's is hectic, with no midweek off. Sun A Wed, cup A Sat A Wed, PSG H Sat A Tue H They will still want to get something to top the group, potentially make a statement, knock out PSG, send home fans happy etc. but if they were going to lose any of those 6 matches then this would likely be the one they would prefer, so there likely will be a few changes, especially with the older players.

Aye, but Milan are not exactly flavour of the month either with the Tonali situation.

Aye, but it's a decent consolation prize though. More matches in Europe, new clubs to face, possibly even new countries, maybe more chance for lesser like fans (like me) to see the team if drawn against a Slavia Prague / Qarabag etc. and a chance to win a trophy and get back into the CL through the backdoor if we don't do quite enough in the league, and possibly even knock out the team that finishes 5th (not sure how that would work, but would be sweet )? More matches on TV etc. We hadn't even been in the Europa League for 10 years before this season, so I'd really like our European journey to continue, even if not the ultimate goal, so I think people would be fairly split, with no universal obvious answer.

PSG would be raging in that situation if Milan broke away and went on to win the match as they (Milan) would go from 4th to 2nd out of nowhere, knocking PSG into the Europa, ha.

Hypothetical situation - Dortmund are winning 2 or 3-0, or have already won. We are drawing 0-0 and get a corner with 2 mins of injury time to play - would you bring Pope up for it?

You had me reading that over and over

To qualify odds - PSG 3/10, Newcastle 9/4, Milan 20/1 (if they win, PSG have to lose).

This will likely sound stupid, especially so close to the decision, and it's a right kick in the teeth, but at least it has caused a moment / talking point, and will likely increase the clubs profile, if throughout Europe are saying it's an awful decision. I thought the CL was possibly going to pass us by after those 2 Dortmund defeats, very tough match to come (tonight) and a real chance we would have been guaranteed 4th tonight if we had a routine loss, but hopefully this sense of injustice will spur us on. I hope that makes a tiny bit of sense.

Gutting, obviously, but still better than it was at 8pm. Dortmund know that if PSG beat them then PSG top the group, so there is an incentive for Dortmund to get at least a point, and if they do, we know a win will see us through. Plus if we are a goal down to Milan in injury time, like Paris were tonight, we know that a late point in that game would at least see is still in Europe. Just happy the Milan game is still live, and we do still have half a chance of qualifying in 2nd, but heartbreaking all the same.

Heartbreaking

1-3 Dortmund, so we should still have something to play for if PSG do come back.

VAR permitting of course.

Dortmund 2-1 up.

Milan 1-1, VAR pemitting.

If we win the League Cup then it would 'only' be the Europa Conference, and dropping into the Europa League from the CL would at least be another shot of CL qualification for next season, and a cup of course. I'd personally much prefer to drop into the Europa than finish 4th in the group, but I'd at least want the final Milan match to be somewhat live, even if a draw or loss meant elimination from Europe altogether. We could rest players, go easy etc. but worst case scenario for me would be for that Milan home match to have absolutely nothing on it, so in hoping there's at least something to play for at 10pm tonight, and I suspect the most likely outcome for that to he the case would be for Dortmund to get something in Italy tonight.

3rd still = EL, but if there's 2 home wins in the group tonight then were guaranteed 4th, and out altogether, with one match to play.

That said, I'm just not really feeling tonight for some reason. The injuries and back to back losses against the supposed weakest opposition has deflated me a bit, and I am expecting a routine 2 or 3-0 loss and will be very pleasantly surprised if we get anything. After the euphoria of the hpme PSG match, the competition does kind of feel like it's passed us by with those two losses, early kick off times and the hardest match on paper, by far, still to come. Away at Milan and Dortmund we were fairly equal odds of circa 6/4, yet barely laced a glove, whereas tonight we range from between 4 and 5/1 so it will be extremely tough (we were faves in the home PSG match, but away is a totally different proposition). If we do go 2-0 down then I may actually switch to the Milan Dortmund match in the hope the former doesn't win so that our European journey doesn't completely end tonight. Even if you think we may be better off finishing 4th than 3rd (I don't), you'd surely want that last match with Milan to be somewhat live - it would be gutting if we were out of Europe altogether, which I suspect we will, with one match still to go, especially after topping the group after 2 games, and many expecting 4 points to come from the Dortmund double header. Hope I'm wrong, and apologies if I am bringing gloom to what should be a positive thread and occasion for the club, but I'm just not really feeling it.