Shays Given Tim Flowers

Lee and Speed both contributed a huge amount to the club over a number of years. Cabaye has shown moments of brilliance over a couple of seasons.

I know it all went south for him in the end but I thought Custer was quite a respected tactician? Splitting your men into three smaller groups against a overwhelming numbers wasn't his best move, it does tend to cloud your previous. Anyway Sam Elliott told Mel Gibson " Custer was a pussy, you aint" in We Were Soldiers. Hollywood's never wrong like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santiago_Mu%C3%B1ez

I know it all went south for him in the end but I thought Custer was quite a respected tactician?

Leyton Orient

Nah, they always wait until the bail date. It's just easier and these things take a lot of time.

Aguero Dzeko Negredo Jovetic Silva Yaya Fernandinho Kompany Lescott Hart They could play a 2-3-4 and kill us. lacks a tackle

That'll be the Rooney who doubled his money a couple of years ago by handing in a transfer request? That's your opinion but it is only speculative. It's frustrating that we will never know what really goes on with anything. My perception of Cisse runs contrary to yours, but maybe that's a carefully cultivated public image.

'Shorter of breath, one day closer to death.' Love you really Alan.

Because he quite happily wore a shirt with virging money on, while playing in the barclays premier league. They're both money lenders who chatge interest. What Cisse is effectively saying is that Sharia law is ok with interest rates of less than 50%. Which is absolute bollocks. It isn't. The definition of usury differs depending on where you are in the Muslim world. Some consider any interest at all to be usury but many believe that only excessive interest is usury. /LockFuckingThread! Its like the fucking Wright Stuff in here.

About time someone stood up for The FA, BT Sky etc.

Yup. Companies will see us as tacky as f*** and you can't blame them for that. Everybody says what a great businessman Ashley is yet he's been terrible for us on the commercial side of things. To be fair we are very appealing to a Company like Wonga. Large local fanbase. Lots of poverty. Below average employment rates and wage rates.

Well no you could have anybody you like Sponsor you. If this was happening to another club however I would be enjoying the some what Karmic angle in play here.

The FA should host an invitational summer Tournament in 2022. Invite all the top International Teams. Call it the Corld Wup or something.

Also starting to think the Muslim angle is media-driven. From the BBC article 'Cisse, a Muslim....'

What's your sensible resolution idea? Earlier in the thread I suggested Cisse buy himself out of the Contractual Obligation and Wonga gives the money to a Charity. Good publicity for both.

based on what? His more intense response to this issue. I'll admit none of us can know the depth of his level of belief. I'm sorry if I seem pedantic about it its just until we really know why Cisse is objecting to Wonga it seems silly to keep on saying he is a hypocrite (not you specifically). Many, many posters on here objected to Wonga becoming our sponsor. I assume some of those objectors were not theists but rather people concerned with the unscrupulous business Practice. Cisse seems to have an acute sense of humanity not displayed by a lot of footballers. If you have ever seen him talk about his time driving an ambulance in Senegal it is abundantly clear that he is someone who cares about people. Similarly the stories surrounding him and his involvement with charities and also just people in general in the North East indicate somebody who is very much a good guy. Conversely his recreational activities that are now well documented are not those of a strict Muslim with a black and white view of the world. This leads me to believe it is entirely plausible he has a strong personal objection to being associated with this brand. For these reasons I am currently reluctant to criticise his stance. My fear however is that this may mean he cannot have a future at the football club. Either way I know who I prefer as a representative of NUFC.

I think that's well summed up. I'm no expert on Islam or interpretations thereof but if you are taking a principled stance then by definition that principle must be consistent. Wonga are not a bank. It's entirely possible to reconcile your religious beliefs with an understanding that what a high street bank does, I imagine it's a completely different beast to have to do the same with a company that pray exclusively on the financially vulnerable and make a f***ing bundle out of doing so. I totally agree and I think you and I are on the same page, for the most part. It's simply a slightly pedantic but very important interpretation that if there is an objection to interest-bearing institutions full stop, then playing in the Barclays Premier League (wearing that logo) while also wearing a Virgin Money logo should also be objectionable. Particularly as barclays have a famous track record of having defrauded investors out of billions through LIBOR-fixing and other rigging games. I suspect there must be a strong moral and religious objection to having to represent, even very indirectly, such an institution. But Cisse did and has done. If he simply finds it personally objectionable, then so be it. Sevilla did allow Freddie Kanoute to wear an unbranded shirt when they had a gambling sponsor. But if it is a strictly religious stance, I'm struggling to reconcile it with the others as religion - if you are a strict believer, as Cisse seems to be - is very much about principle and hard and fast laws/rules. based on what?

Dont actually have a problem with either parties stance here. If Cisse has a problem with it then at least he is doing something about it. Wonga have paid money to have players wear their Logo. They have every right to insist that that arrangement is honoured. Ultimately Wonga is worth more (financially) to the club than Cisse. That should tell everyone how this will pan out, unless one party changes their stance.

Virgin Money offer loans for Muslims, sharia banking if you will. That particular brand of high street banking is also such an integral part of society, something that has been around so long there has probably been a degree of modernisation and acceptance from Muslims too. It would be extremely hard for anyone to go about their day to day lives without banks. Payday lenders are a completely different beast. They're relatively new entities that cater to those in dire need and make vast sums of cash off the back of individuals who don't have a lot to begin with. You don't need to be a religious person to feel extremely uneasy that there's an entire industry sprung up around lending money to people who are struggling to get by at frankly eye watering rates of interest. It's sick. And these c***s are associated with our club. And in a region where unemployment is through the roof and more and more people have to rely on them. I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments regarding Wonga as a classless, parasitic outfit. But I disagree with the ability to selectively choose how to display your principled stance. There is a certain awareness that comes with accepting a pay packet from a professional football club that you may at times endorse indirectly products or services you find disagreeable or even reprehensible. You have teetotalers, perhaps religiously motivated, wearing shorts with alcohol sponsors. You have players implicitly endorsing gambling, players who may themselves find it problematic or even immoral. It is difficult to pick and choose morally between a bank like Virgin Money, even if they offer sharia banking, and a payday outlet like Wonga. Most large-scale banking outlets have been involved in operations that are morally questionable, or full-on repugnant. It still represents a stretch of "principle" if you blanch at one but not the other, even if I myself find payday outlets horrible leeches on the poor. Yes but that is your opinion on a moral issue. Whilst I don't necessarily agree with the conclusion you reach I should not Judge you for reaching that conclusion. On the same facts Cisse has reached a different conclusion to yourself. Likewise I see no reason to condemn him for it.

Which leads me to think he is objecting on a personal level not a religious one. He's clearly not a strict Muslim. I doubt it's his faith that is the stumbling block here.

He blatantly has that. He had it last year too. He's got about 15 of them, and with that he should still do far better than he did last year. But the strength in depth is s*** and needs to be improved, and if it was, that would constitute our shitty manager being "backed properly". And yes, we'd still be s***. Just because he's shit doesn't mean areas that need addressing shouldn't be addressed.

Ramadan must be testing Ben Arfa's faith to the Max.

I hear it's purely fashion related. I just mean for all intents and purposes he seems like a guy with a good heart. Maybe he just doesn't like Wonga's profiteering of the poor and desperate. Fed up with the whole he does X or Y etc.

Again has he actually been quoted as saying this is a muslim thing?