Kid Icarus

I get what you're saying, the issue is that I think if you were to change your assumption, by that time it would already be too late, because the new stadium would likely be up and SJP gone. I can't imagine there would be a 'tell' along the way that would tip people off that it might not live up to the hype for those who want a new stadium. If all modern stadiums were built like Spurs's has been, I'd still be against a new stadium because I feel like I can't take anymore commercialisation in football, but I'd be less against it than I am. In reality though, I think Spurs's stadium is the outlier at the moment and the likes of the Etihad, Emirates, and others make up most of the evidence of what it could be like, rather than it being purely about hypotheticals and utopian/dystopian.

This one gets said a lot on here, but surely the proof is in the pudding and not the hypothetical? As far as I can tell, the only modern stadium with fan service for things like acoustics that seems to have resulted in a good atmosphere is Spurs's stadium.

Ambition is spelled ABC. Always Be Closing

As usual with these culture war things, everyone involved is shite. The new kits are absolutely lush tbf, love that knitted style.

You can tell we're emotionally damaged and insecure as a fanbase like. There was nothing unusual in what he said.

As good as Shadow Puppets' post is, it'll get buried in a pile of other posts soon enough

I'd say we were poor/didn't look right from the start of 12/13 and got worse, so about 6 months into the season. Ben Arfa was brilliant in August 2012 and papered over the cracks. I don't remember that narrative at all at the time tbh, not saying it didn't happen, just that I don't remember it. I do remember it being a more widespread opinion in hindsight though and it's one I'm more inclined to believe based on the rest of Pardew's career here and elsewhere. Even by January 2013, being anti-Pardew was more an N-O thing. Over a year later there was an attempt to protest against him at home to Hull and I think it's fair to say it wasn't a view shared by the majority of match-going fans.

We were saying "this season ffs" in November. We're surely approaching some kind of PL record for injuries

He wasn't deeply unpopular until around January 2013 at the absolute earliest. What you've posted here is hyperbole almost to the point of revisionism. Pardew was initially disliked for being seen as an Ashley man and replacing Hughton, but it didn't last long and by the time 11-12 was well under way, disliking Pardew and his football was very much a minority view on here. By the end of the season it was almost non-existent. The 5th season wrote all wrongs for him and it wasn't until we then turned to absolute shit that his influence on that season was re-evaluated with the benefit of hindsight - that hindsight of course being hugely informed by Pardew himself not once playing the 433 that reaped us rewards in 11-12, having us play a totally different style, with players out of position and our best players not getting a look in. You learn and experience all of that and all that came after it and the perception of 11-12 inevitably changes, and rightly so.

If this is limited to Newcastle then in my time supporting the club, aside from a few little winning runs it's 100% Pardew from August 2012 until he left at the end of 2014. That squad had far more quality and balance than anything anyone else in the Ashley-era had.

Mad how easily swayed people are by someone just not being an arsehole. He's just doing the same as what Joey Barton does when he says naughty words about Mike Ashley, playing you like a fiddle.

The actual number for stay is 62 btw

He did however shaft Chris Hughton and he absolutely was backed by Ashley like (at least compared to Rafa and Hughton) - he had the best Ashley squad by quite some distance.

Pardew was arguably more damaging off the pitch than on it. Imo no one did more to turn this fanbase into a bunch of - and I hate to use the word because it's generally shite, but - cucks watching on as Mike Ashley fucked it than Alan Pardew. He was an expert at selling failure as some kind of promised land. The fact there are still people who don't think he was that bad, had his hands tied, and so on, shows how good he was at it and how unbelievably gullible a lot of our lot are. The bloke was a disease.

Swansea were doing it under Rodgers, ironically because they were copying Pep's Barca side. Is that why you specified England and not the league?

The incarnation of offside hasn't changed since I've been watching football like, I've never known that whole daylight thing to actually apply. If a player was even partially ahead when the ball was played then it was offside.

I didn't say or think that you definitely hadn't thought about it, I asked whether you had because imo the obvious change - that defences will sit back more often and there'll be less pressing - is a hugely negative change that will come about because of this change, without the main thing it's supposed to be for (to make offsides quicker and easier to call) not being solved in any meaningful sense. I don't think football needs more goals to be honest. That would be fixing something that isn't broken.

I think that's wishful thinking like. The pedantic line for offside just moves, that's all. Meanwhile, have you thought about the repurcussions of this? eg defences no longer ever playing a high line?

Might have to reset the poll. If you click into who's voted you can see that 'stay' has 23 votes since it opened, not 11.

@Yorkie Is the poll counting correctly? I see 23 people having voted 'stay' in the last couple of hours and it's only showing 11 votes?

From our point of view as football fans first and foremost, we have to be careful to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Yes, FFP is enforcing the status quo, is anti-competitive, and is imo corrupt, but at the same time you do need regulation, particularly in sport - the free market would literally just allow us to join the club and take over, loosen the strings for other teams, and also bring back the increased risk that clubs over speculate and ruin football clubs. All the while none of it does anything for making the league more equitable and fair. It would benefit us but it would be awful for the league and for competition. The idea that keeps coming back to me is that there's a tracker system whereby each club in a league, providing they can afford the capital (and owners shouldn't be able to have the club as collateral on any loans for example) can spend a percentage of whatever the club with the highest revenue (if that's the right term) has made plus their own revenue. I'm sure there are things that would need to be accounted for (ensuring the club with the highest revenue isn't at a disadvantage for example) but I think that could be a proper realisation of 'a high tide raises all boats', keep a profit motive going, but also make the league more competitive.

I've been pretty open about how dead against I am about moving and that will never change. For me you'd be removing a huge percentage of what supporting Newcastle means to me, never to return. I think in terms of what it means in terms of 'what supporting a club is supposed to be about' from my perspective, it would be catastrophic, up there with Hull 2014 when my eyes were opened to how much of our fanbase were spineless, bootlicking arseholes.

It's a mea culpa from me unfortunately. I had thought I was just repeating the same argument that I made the last time this was brought up with Wandy, but my argument then wasn't 'you're claiming supporters want to leave when polling only shows the opposite' it was 'you're claiming supporters want to leave when there's no polling to support that' So a hands up from me, I got that one a bit wrong, apologies.

Poll re-opened with new options. This time it's a straight shoot out between the best of both options: SJP stadium expansion or moving to another city centre location. Result of last result for posterity