England - too many stars?

[stozo]

Been thinking about where England's Euro 2008 qualifying campaign has gone wrong and I think part of the problem is far too much of the squad is living off reputation.

 

Firstly, you have Paul Robinson who has been shocking for the last year and a bit but still manages to get in the team ahead of Carson who has done virtually nothing wrong for Villa and was also one of Charlton best players last year.

 

Next you have to look at the back 4. From what I read this week and heard on TV and Radio if Neville had been fit he would have played RB, this to me seems insane considering Richards has become one of the best defenders in the country but because of Neville's reputation he will wrongly walk back into the team. Also in my opinion Carragher is a better or as good of a defender as Ferdinand yet Carragher was never given a look in and eventually forced off the international scene. Looking at LB the starter seems to be Ashley Cole who has been a shadow of the player he was aty Arsenakl but yet again because of his reputaion he walks into the team whenever fit.

 

Midfield has improved dramatically over the last few months, no complaints here.

 

Rooney and Owen seems to be status quo up front but for me they haven't been that fantastic as a pair. Owen worked MUCH better with Heskey and Rooney hadn't scored for almost 3 years until the other day, surely that says something.

 

Surely I am not the only one who thinks that the England team is currently selected too much based on what people have done in the past rather than what they are doing in the present.

[brummie]

You are right. This has been the problem of the England team for most of my life, and Im nudging 40.

[johnnypd]

it is one part of the problem. but then again shearer hadn't scored in 11 games over two years before euro 96, and on the other flipside, people like kevin philips and michael ricketts were once the guys in form, but you wouldn't want them in the side would you? looking at your post, you say there's no complaints about midfield, cos Lampard has been dropped, but the midfield was laughable against Russia, Barry looking like a lost puppy in the 2nd half and Gerrard looking like the midfield equivalent of Shola Ameobi, whereas we also brought in the likes of carrick and hargreaves in the world cup and looked a shambles. I actully think midfield is our main problem because we don't have the players to do the basic jobs required at international level, big names or not. as for Robinson, we dropped the previous "big-name" incumbent in David James to bring Robbo in but that didn't solve the problem did it? If you pinpoint all the problems at individual players it gives false hope that all will be well and good if only we get rid of these few individuals and replace them with other players. then when that happens and the problems haven't disappear, people forget everything that has happened and focus their ire on the new players. and so the cycle continues, focusing on scapegoats rather than fundamental problems with the way football is in the UK.

[The College Dropout]

The whole thing is a shambles tbh. From the top to the bottom.

 

However I must say Rio Ferdinand & Ashley Cole is the only individual to perform at a consistently high level. Defensively Cole has been solid & our defence looks more vulnerable without Rio than it does without JT.

[Kev]

They are shite and boring to watch

more underated players would do better together because the england midfield at the minute cannot play together!

[Dragon55544]

I agree there is to much player power, Gerrard has been poor for a few games but then again with McClaren in charge i cant see England doing much.

[Incognito]

Was Woodgate in the squad?

[Offshore]

I lost count of the number of last ditch tackles and blocks that the back four had to make, and that was down to us gifting them the ball. I thought our problem was midfield, three men trying to do the job of four, now I quite like SWP, but he was anonymous for vast amounts of the game. Richards was far more effective on the right flank, but that left his area open. Gerrard didn't have a good game, didn't have a bad one either mind, but i'd put most of that down to the managers tactics. He was obviously told to stay back to support Barry, who had an ok game, and try to play in our front (short-arse) two using long balls into gaps. I guess the thinking (or hope) was that Owen and Rooney would be able to find space, get and hold the ball and the midfield (Cole/SWP) would get up to support. Never happened.

 

 

[Thorpinho]

One of the most frustrating things about watching England is that its really hard to put your finger on exactly what goes wrong/is missing, and also who is actually responsible - is it the players not performing or have all the managers since Euro 96 just been playing the wrong tactics etc?

 

In midfield/attack there really are very few options apart from the ones that already play (and who at club level are world class a lot of the time). Our back 4 is actually one of the best around in international football, and does keep a lot of clean sheets.

 

Paul Robinson is another matter entirely. I would like to ask those people who boo Frank Lampard a question - do you applaud Paul Robinson? If anyone needs dropping its him, and by some distance.

[Guest jimmy1982]

just needs a manager with a strong character to come in and go 'reet, this is how we're going to play, and these are the english players who i think can play in this system. x y and z: you might be big names at your club but you can't do a job for me with the way i want to play. do one.' instead of trying to fit all the big names into the team and then think about tactics.

Look at Peckerman in the last world cup - thats exactly what he did, leaving Veron out and he put together a team that absolutely howked everyone they played for about two years, probably the best International team I've seen in my life. was just a pity his decision making went west against germany.

[Guest Li3nZ]

There are too many stars, yes. The likes of the Lampard situation at the moment is tiresome and he simply is not good enough and does not fit in. HOwever, i think it's more the way we try to play that is the problem, try to play a way we are not used to and simply can't do.

 

What I have never understood is why England always seem to change our style of play for International games. We should use the same tactics we do in the Premiership. When foreign players come to our league, they normally need "settling in" period due to the fact they can't get used to our style of play (in general terms). Why, when playing at International level, we try to change tactics and play a more continental passing game and keep the ball on the floor, when we simply DONT have the players to do it (had enough players in 90 to do it, largely thanks to Gazza) i have no idea. We need to start playing the way we know best. Big man up front, with a pacey finisher beside him, long balls up to centre forward. All this trying to play the ball from the back boild my piss - we are s*** at it and cant do it.

 

The closest I have seen to my recent example recently was the Isreal game, with Heskey being the key man (oh and Owen too ) )

 

We need a manager that has got the bollocks to pick the right players for the team, for example having the bollocks to drop Rooney when a better alternative combination is available.

[spizz energi]

Rooney and Owen seems to be status quo up front but for me they haven't been that fantastic as a pair.

 

To be honest, the band Status Quo would probably do better up front for England than these two at the moment.

[Guest doghair]

I think rooney and the Chelsea boys are the problem(midfilders) they are to selfish and seem to only play for them self and not for the team.

[Guest nufc_geordie]

To be honest Englands main problem is that we are not good enough and don't have good enough players. We have no world class goalkeepers at the moment, maybe Ben Foster in time but his injury lay off this year certainly hasn't helped. He needs games to develop as he did last year. At the back Micah Richards shows great potential but that is all it is at present, he still needs to develop into a class players although he is good now. Ferdinand makes too many mistakes to be classed as a world class player, and John Terry does not perform the same way for England as he does for Chelsea. At left back Ashley Cole is not a world class full back. He is a good player but certainly from a defensive aspect Wayne Bridge is better. In midfield Steven Gerrard is the only world class player in that department. Wright-Phillips is OK, but isn't and will never be a Beckham in his prime, Barry is playing well but will never be more than a good pro, Lampard is vastly overrated and Carrick and Hargreaves are nothing more than good level pro's. Joe Cole on his game is the only other close to top notch midfielder we have that can open up gaps and create things from nothing ala Gazza. Upfront Rooney is world class, but Owen isn't and never will be the youngster that burst onto the schene at 17. Now he is nothing more than a good pro, Crouch, Bent, Ashton etc. aren't up to it either.

 

Why do we always expect to win? We have a team of overpaid, overhyped players who believe they are worldbeaters and they don't even come close.

 

The FA need to sort out grassroots football and their development areas because we really don't seem to have an abundance of players coming through who can make a difference.

[Cronky]

The margins between success and failure are sometimes quite slim. Normally we're pretty strong in the goalkeeping department, but we're weak at the moment. That's what cost us the away games against Croatia and Russia (which were otherwise fairly even), and that's all it takes to lose out.

 

I know he's young, but Scott Carson has really impressed me. He looks nerveless and I'd put him in once this qualifying campaign is over.

 

Overall, I don't think that McClaren was the best man for the job. He allowed himself to be bullied into bringing Beckham back, and a manager has to be strong and stick to his guns.

[Guest teepee]

it requires a top manager to handle so many stars, and certainly one who is not affraid to play the best team not just the best individuals.

 

and you don't have that!!!

 

(even if dropping lamps for barry was a good move)

[Guest Dev]

it requires a top manager to handle so many stars, and certainly one who is not affraid to play the best team not just the best individuals.

 

and you don't have that!!!

 

(even if dropping lamps for barry was a good move)

 

Exactly. You wouldn't see Mclaren managing any top premiership club, so why on earth is he managing a team full of top premiership players?

[Thorpinho]

A good example of an international manager not going on reputation and egos etc is Van Basten at Holland. He came in and told all those arrogant twats like Kluivert to do one, and brought in the players that he felt would work in the system and do what he wanted them to. That took some balls to do, and is exactly what England need.

[Mr. Snrub]

Van Basten comes across as a right prick imo.

[James]

For me, the best England team would be:

 

Foster

Neville Richards Ferdinand Cole

Beckham Gerrard Barry

Rooney

Owen Smith

 

Foster is the best English goalkeeper, but has been unlucky when it comes to injuries and being at Manchester United. He'd start at any club that wasn't Manyoo or Chelsea.

 

Don't know why people have it in for Neville, he is still the best ever English right back, great defensively, second best English crosser, and a good leader. Would be the captain in this team. Yes, Richards has been very good at right back, but isn't as complete as Neville, and plays at centre back for his club. He is good enough to play as centre half for England.

 

The problem with the Terry Ferdinand partnership is that both prefer to play as sweeper, and Ferdinand is inevitably made to be the charger due to his pace. Ferdinand makes more mistakes as a charger though, so the partnership doesn't work. Despite the mistakes, Ferdinand has the pace and the ability on the ball required for international level, whereas Terry does not, plus Terry's attitude is a lot more questionable than Ferdinand's.

 

Although there is good competition from Bridge, Cole has never let England down despite being off-form for the past 18 months. Thus he should be starting.

 

442 doesn't suit England. Although Cole is a good player on form, our midfield never has any shape. Plus we can never find the perfect balance in the other areas. We certainly need three out and out midfielders. The first choice is Gerrard and Lampard. Gerrard has a better engine and better technique, and can link up well with team mates in a variety of roles, whereas Lampard relies on the team being built around him. Thus Gerrard is the obvious choice.

 

Now, before choosing the other midfielders, and deciding on a formation, the strikers need to be considered. To win matches, you have to score goals - a simple point that shouldn't need to be pointed out. The only English player who can guarantee a regular stream of goals is Michael Owen, so he must start. Owen needs someone alongside him to help him out, and Rooney's deep style of play is going to severely hampen Owen's contribution.

 

Did Gary Lineker prosper alongside the brilliance of Peter Beardsley? No, he prospered alongside the hard physical work of donkey Steve Bull. Owen needs the same sort of player alongside him and at the moment, Heskey or Smith are the only options.

 

No team can leave out the brilliance of Rooney though, although there is clearly no place for him up front. The best option is therefore to use him in a free role. Let him use his own intelligence and brilliance to find the spaces on the pitch, and cause real damage. When defending, he can plug the midfield, albeit a bit clumsily. At times though, he may go missing when we have our backs against the wall. Thus, Smith is the better option to Heskey in that he'll play for 90 minutes with some real heart, helping out the defence when needed.

 

The remainding two midfielders are now important though, given that there is a reliance on Rooney and Smith helping out. Any possibility of a flair winger is out of the question, we need players who can graft, but whom can also provide that bit of quality. People forget that Beckham has a great engine, and can cover a good amount of ground. His fixture schedule isn't overworked either these days, so he is unlikely to burn out in the major tournaments. Add the excellent passes and set pieces, Beckham is the obvious option.

 

Finally, Hargreaves or Barry are needed to plug the gaps that other players may leave. I'm going to go for Barry, as he has showed a good understanding with Gerrard, and would provide the forward six with their only left footer.

[Keefaz]

It's like Holland, except not as entertaining.

[Thorpinho]

Van Basten might come across as a prick, but Dutch fans i have spoken to like him for getting rid of all those old wasters from the team.

[Mr. Snrub]

They hated him when he axed van Nistelrooy, although that feud is now resolved.

 

He seems to have a massive ego and won't have anyone in the squad who dares to question his selections.

[Guest jimmy1982]

Did Gary Lineker prosper alongside the brilliance of Peter Beardsley? No, he prospered alongside the hard physical work of donkey Steve Bull. Owen needs the same sort of player alongside him and at the moment, Heskey or Smith are the only options.

 

Good post James, but I remember Lineker always going on about Beardsley was his favourite strike partner. Maybe the stats show he scored more with Bull though? I don't know. I was very young when Bull played for England and can't remember it, but from what I remember of him at Wolves in the early 90s he was a hard worker as you say, but I remember him being an out and goal scorer, not an unselfish Smith or Heskey type player. Is my memory deceiving me?

[Dr Spectrum]

For me, the best England team would be:

 

Foster

Neville Richards Ferdinand Cole

Beckham Gerrard Barry

Rooney

Owen Smith

 

Never in a million years is Alan Smith an England player - and the sooner we stop picking players like Smith and Heskey - who are frankly shite, but can "do a job" - the sooner we might actually get a team together who can actually keep possesion when winning instead of constantly hoofing it up to the "big man" - and inevitably being on the recieving end of another attack 5 seconds later.

 

I think the team should be something like:

James

Richards Ferdinand King Cole

Barry Hargreaves

Gerrard Rooney Cole

Owen

 

I'd also consider Ashton if Owen plays shite in that role.

 

If King's leg drops off in the not too distant future I'm not sure who I would put in...it would have to be a proper footballing centre half. Someone who can resist the urge to put their foot thru the ball every time he gets it. I think its important to load up the midfield. And its important to get Gerrard out of the engine room, we need players with a cool head to play 5 yard passes backwards and sideways for 20 minutes. And the new coach must be a european (or me) - someone who understands that if we've got the ball, the other team aren't going to put us under any pressure.