Will Ashley/Mort bin Allardyce if we don't qualify for Europe this season?

[Tooj]

It's not just about qualifying for Europe, it's about performances as well. We can qualify for Europe and he may still be binned.

 

Surely that would be ridiculously harsh? How would non-football men like Ashley and Mort judge the performances separate of results?

 

The fans.

 

Its quite easy to listen to how a season is going by the response of the crowd at the end of every match.

 

 

 

Don't forget the idiots who booed us versus Wolves.

[Dokko]

It's not just about qualifying for Europe, it's about performances as well. We can qualify for Europe and he may still be binned.

 

Surely that would be ridiculously harsh? How would non-football men like Ashley and Mort judge the performances separate of results?

 

The fans.

 

Its quite easy to listen to how a season is going by the response of the crowd at the end of every match.

 

 

 

Who boos or grumbles when we win?

 

So if they are generally happy then he stays in a job?

 

[Dave]

It's not just about qualifying for Europe, it's about performances as well. We can qualify for Europe and he may still be binned.

 

Surely that would be ridiculously harsh? How would non-football men like Ashley and Mort judge the performances separate of results?

 

The fans.

 

Its quite easy to listen to how a season is going by the response of the crowd at the end of every match.

 

 

 

Who boos or grumbles when we win?

 

So if they are generally happy then he stays in a job?

 

 

Surely if the results are good enough to get us into Europe the fans will be generally happy? Hence why I asked HTL how Mort and Ashley would deem performances inadequate if the results are.

[Gallowgate Toon]

We really know nothing about Ashley, or how he goes about his business. From the little i have read though, Ashley is quite patient and easy going, in some financial columns he has been slated for being far too laid back about his businesses, this suggests that he will not panic and probably give SA some time to sort it out.

[Mick]

 

Surely that would be ridiculously harsh? How would non-football men like Ashley and Mort judge the performances separate of results?

 

The non-football men are watching the same as us, I don't think they are non-football men anyway, I just think they weren't tied down to a specific club or if they were they are keeping it quiet.

 

Having said that, I think Allardyce will be judged mainly on results and our away results look as if they'll play a big part in that.  I also think attendances will play a part in any decision, both home and away.  Mort wants away support, he'll not like it if we're taking fewer fans to away games and I can see people stopping going if we're throwing up the white flag before kick-off.

[Mick]

We really know nothing about Ashley, or how he goes about his business. From the little i have read though, Ashley is quite patient and easy going, in some financial columns he has been slated for being far too laid back about his businesses, this suggests that he will not panic and probably give SA some time to sort it out.

 

My guess is that Mort will decide who the manager is and he will look at everything at the club before making a decision. 

[Guest Sniffer]

If ashley is indeed a football fan, then he's probably thinking the same as most of us. This performance is shite and I'd like some answers from Fat Sam in defence of his game plan. And do you plan to repeat this strategy again? Will you drop Owen and Martins and replace them with Taylor and Rozenhal at Old Trafford in search of a point? 6-4-0?.

[80]

The Jan window will be crucial and tell us a lot more of what is going on in various heads.

 

I agree with that. Aside from the flurry of speculation amidst Ashley's takeover, he and Mort (A&M) have kept their ambitions for the future close to their chests surprisingly successfully, particularly given (partly because?) they've presented themselves as open and eager to engage with us as supporters. The next time they're getting slaughtered in the Bigg Market, someone should ask them just what they're intending to achieve... My sense is that they're happy to go along with Allardyce for next season, so long as we make the top 8, maybe even the top half. I don't really base that on evidence harder than the likes of the manner with which Mort presents in interviews and Ashley's demeanour in public; the way he looks contented with some of the performances he's witnessed (some might say the number on his shirt exhibits the standard he's happy with, at least for the time being). The question is whether all that stuff about spending sprees and wanting Allardyce to "think as big as he could" was partly paper talk or not - MA's comments about being prepared to spend more of his own wealth than other owners suggests the latter. I wonder whether events at Manchester City over the past half year have made them think, as well - they have emerged as our most obvious rivals in any fight to break into the CL monopoly.

 

I'd been a supporter of Allardyce coming to our club for some time prior to his arrival. Ironically, half of my reasoning for this was smashed apart only days after it finally happened. I felt he was someone as good as we could attract in our circumstances, who could make an even greater impact with our natural resources and would overhaul bad practices in player management, refuse to bow to board pressure on all matters and could work on a small budget. With Ashley, the club had a larger budget, seemingly would innately understand the need to improve club practice, supposedly would allow a competent manager to do his job without unnecessary interference and, ultimately, probably could have attracted a high quality manager with more established credentials, no "proving" required.

 

January will tell us a lot, then. I hope Ashley gives us a nice wodge of his own money, and I look forward to seeing Allardyce given the opportunity to spend it. All the same, it might become apparent that A&M have ideas higher than Allardyce, and will seek to find someone who matches their's more closely.

[Guest Guinness]

Would be ridiculous if they did, what we need now is some stability. Sam has proved at Bolton what he can do and I'm confident all he needs is a bit of time before he starts turning the poor performances away into good ones. Yes we've had three poor displays away from home, but considering the amount of changes at the club over the summer we've not had a bad start.

 

How can we ever be taken seriously if we constantly chop and change managers? Players won't want to come here because there's be no guarantee that the manager who brought them in will remain at the club for a decent amount of time and good managers will stay well away because they'll have fuck all job security.

[Howaythelads]

It's not just about qualifying for Europe, it's about performances as well. We can qualify for Europe and he may still be binned.

 

Surely that would be ridiculously harsh? How would non-football men like Ashley and Mort judge the performances separate of results?

 

Not really, Dave.

 

The bin-dippers got shot of Hoolia despite him doing better than qualifying for Europe, they won trophies but obviously their Board thought he couldn't get them where they wanted to be. That's the kind of ruthless approach I want to see. It's upto Allardyce. He has the job so it's upto him to make the most of it.

[Howaythelads]

The Jan window will be crucial and tell us a lot more of what is going on in various heads.

 

I agree with that. Aside from the flurry of speculation amidst Ashley's takeover, he and Mort (A&M) have kept their ambitions for the future close to their chests surprisingly successfully, particularly given (partly because?) they've presented themselves as open and eager to engage with us as supporters. The next time they're getting slaughtered in the Bigg Market, someone should ask them just what they're intending to achieve... My sense is that they're happy to go along with Allardyce for next season, so long as we make the top 8, maybe even the top half. I don't really base that on evidence harder than the likes of the manner with which Mort presents in interviews and Ashley's demeanour in public; the way he looks contented with some of the performances he's witnessed (some might say the number on his shirt exhibits the standard he's happy with, at least for the time being). The question is whether all that stuff about spending sprees and wanting Allardyce to "think as big as he could" was partly paper talk or not - MA's comments about being prepared to spend more of his own wealth than other owners suggests the latter. I wonder whether events at Manchester City over the past half year have made them think, as well - they have emerged as our most obvious rivals in any fight to break into the CL monopoly.

 

I'd been a supporter of Allardyce coming to our club for some time prior to his arrival. Ironically, half of my reasoning for this was smashed apart only days after it finally happened. I felt he was someone as good as we could attract in our circumstances, who could make an even greater impact with our natural resources and would overhaul bad practices in player management, refuse to bow to board pressure on all matters and could work on a small budget. With Ashley, the club had a larger budget, seemingly would innately understand the need to improve club practice, supposedly would allow a competent manager to do his job without unnecessary interference and, ultimately, probably could have attracted a high quality manager with more established credentials, no "proving" required.

 

January will tell us a lot, then. I hope Ashley gives us a nice wodge of his own money, and I look forward to seeing Allardyce given the opportunity to spend it. All the same, it might become apparent that A&M have ideas higher than Allardyce, and will seek to find someone who matches their's more closely.

 

Looks like your reasoning for wanting Allardyce here was flawed in some places, unless you believe Souness was a yes-man.

[Howaythelads]

Would be ridiculous if they did, what we need now is some stability. Sam has proved at Bolton what he can do and I'm confident all he needs is a bit of time before he starts turning the poor performances away into good ones. Yes we've had three poor displays away from home, but considering the amount of changes at the club over the summer we've not had a bad start.

 

How can we ever be taken seriously if we constantly chop and change managers? Players won't want to come here because there's be no guarantee that the manager who brought them in will remain at the club for a decent amount of time and good managers will stay well away because they'll have fuck all job security.

 

Depends who was appointed as the new manager. You could view it as a sign of ambition.

[80]

The Jan window will be crucial and tell us a lot more of what is going on in various heads.

 

I agree with that. Aside from the flurry of speculation amidst Ashley's takeover, he and Mort (A&M) have kept their ambitions for the future close to their chests surprisingly successfully, particularly given (partly because?) they've presented themselves as open and eager to engage with us as supporters. The next time they're getting slaughtered in the Bigg Market, someone should ask them just what they're intending to achieve... My sense is that they're happy to go along with Allardyce for next season, so long as we make the top 8, maybe even the top half. I don't really base that on evidence harder than the likes of the manner with which Mort presents in interviews and Ashley's demeanour in public; the way he looks contented with some of the performances he's witnessed (some might say the number on his shirt exhibits the standard he's happy with, at least for the time being). The question is whether all that stuff about spending sprees and wanting Allardyce to "think as big as he could" was partly paper talk or not - MA's comments about being prepared to spend more of his own wealth than other owners suggests the latter. I wonder whether events at Manchester City over the past half year have made them think, as well - they have emerged as our most obvious rivals in any fight to break into the CL monopoly.

 

I'd been a supporter of Allardyce coming to our club for some time prior to his arrival. Ironically, half of my reasoning for this was smashed apart only days after it finally happened. I felt he was someone as good as we could attract in our circumstances, who could make an even greater impact with our natural resources and would overhaul bad practices in player management, refuse to bow to board pressure on all matters and could work on a small budget. With Ashley, the club had a larger budget, seemingly would innately understand the need to improve club practice, supposedly would allow a competent manager to do his job without unnecessary interference and, ultimately, probably could have attracted a high quality manager with more established credentials, no "proving" required.

 

January will tell us a lot, then. I hope Ashley gives us a nice wodge of his own money, and I look forward to seeing Allardyce given the opportunity to spend it. All the same, it might become apparent that A&M have ideas higher than Allardyce, and will seek to find someone who matches their's more closely.

 

Looks like your reasoning for wanting Allardyce here was flawed in some places, unless you believe Souness was a yes-man.

 

I think in effect he was, at times, yes. Fundamentally, he was self-interested, he'd do what he thought was good for himself. Obviously, that would alter depending on his circumstances. He's insisted that he'd give a list of players (or positions) he wanted and would be kept in the dark, not sure of whether he'd get anything resembling what he wanted. Allardyce would never have accepted that.

[Howaythelads]

The Jan window will be crucial and tell us a lot more of what is going on in various heads.

 

I agree with that. Aside from the flurry of speculation amidst Ashley's takeover, he and Mort (A&M) have kept their ambitions for the future close to their chests surprisingly successfully, particularly given (partly because?) they've presented themselves as open and eager to engage with us as supporters. The next time they're getting slaughtered in the Bigg Market, someone should ask them just what they're intending to achieve... My sense is that they're happy to go along with Allardyce for next season, so long as we make the top 8, maybe even the top half. I don't really base that on evidence harder than the likes of the manner with which Mort presents in interviews and Ashley's demeanour in public; the way he looks contented with some of the performances he's witnessed (some might say the number on his shirt exhibits the standard he's happy with, at least for the time being). The question is whether all that stuff about spending sprees and wanting Allardyce to "think as big as he could" was partly paper talk or not - MA's comments about being prepared to spend more of his own wealth than other owners suggests the latter. I wonder whether events at Manchester City over the past half year have made them think, as well - they have emerged as our most obvious rivals in any fight to break into the CL monopoly.

 

I'd been a supporter of Allardyce coming to our club for some time prior to his arrival. Ironically, half of my reasoning for this was smashed apart only days after it finally happened. I felt he was someone as good as we could attract in our circumstances, who could make an even greater impact with our natural resources and would overhaul bad practices in player management, refuse to bow to board pressure on all matters and could work on a small budget. With Ashley, the club had a larger budget, seemingly would innately understand the need to improve club practice, supposedly would allow a competent manager to do his job without unnecessary interference and, ultimately, probably could have attracted a high quality manager with more established credentials, no "proving" required.

 

January will tell us a lot, then. I hope Ashley gives us a nice wodge of his own money, and I look forward to seeing Allardyce given the opportunity to spend it. All the same, it might become apparent that A&M have ideas higher than Allardyce, and will seek to find someone who matches their's more closely.

 

Looks like your reasoning for wanting Allardyce here was flawed in some places, unless you believe Souness was a yes-man.

 

I think in effect he was, at times, yes. Fundamentally, he was self-interested. He'd do what he thought was good for himself.

 

Different thing really, mate. I know people like to claim there was Board interference in the extreme at Newcastle, but I seriously doubt there was that much.

 

Souness was self-interested for sure, he put himself ahead of the team and club every day he was manager in my opinion, but that doesn't mean he gave in to Board interference and such like.

[80]

Different thing really, mate. I know people like to claim there was Board interference in the extreme at Newcastle, but I seriously doubt there was that much.

 

Souness was self-interested for sure, he put himself ahead of the team and club every day he was manager in my opinion, but that doesn't mean he gave in to Board interference and such like.

 

Made an edit. The point is he would allow things to be done against his better judgement, Allardyce would resign. Souness wouldn't do that because he'd risk losing his compensation money, of course.

[Mick]

We've got some cracking posts in this and other threads.

[MyPalAl]

No, I dont think BSA will get peddled this season, partly because I don't think the new regime want to compared to the old one, one which sacked managers in a short space of time. I think they will want to distance themselves from that, and (appear to) be more professional.

 

The fact that BSA wasn't brought in by them doesn't make a difference. Ashley and Mort haven't run a club before, so they will be impressed by the way BSA is transforming the club, particularly behind the scenes, mainly because they have no other experience in this business to compare to.

 

IMO, BSA will get at least 3 seasons, and by which time I think we will be top 5ish anyway.

[80]

We've got some cracking posts in this and other threads.

 

Nice to have something a bit different to talk about, isn't it? Obviously, discussion had been fairly stagnant in the dying days of Roeder and the old Board. Whilst the events of the Summer were interesting of course, a lot of it was us just experiencing sensations, waiting to see where things went. Now it's bedded down, we've got some time to both reflect and look forwards. New personalities, new challenges etc.

[Parky]

We've got some cracking posts in this and other threads.

 

Nice to have something a bit different to talk about, isn't it? Obviously, discussion had been fairly stagnant in the dying days of Roeder and the old Board. Whilst the events of the Summer were interesting of course, a lot of it was us just experiencing sensations, waiting to see where things went. Now it's bedded down, we've got some time to both reflect and look forwards. New personalities, new challenges etc.

The Jan window will be crucial and tell us a lot more of what is going on in various heads.

 

I agree with that. Aside from the flurry of speculation amidst Ashley's takeover, he and Mort (A&M) have kept their ambitions for the future close to their chests surprisingly successfully, particularly given (partly because?) they've presented themselves as open and eager to engage with us as supporters. The next time they're getting slaughtered in the Bigg Market, someone should ask them just what they're intending to achieve... My sense is that they're happy to go along with Allardyce for next season, so long as we make the top 8, maybe even the top half. I don't really base that on evidence harder than the likes of the manner with which Mort presents in interviews and Ashley's demeanour in public; the way he looks contented with some of the performances he's witnessed (some might say the number on his shirt exhibits the standard he's happy with, at least for the time being). The question is whether all that stuff about spending sprees and wanting Allardyce to "think as big as he could" was partly paper talk or not - MA's comments about being prepared to spend more of his own wealth than other owners suggests the latter. I wonder whether events at Manchester City over the past half year have made them think, as well - they have emerged as our most obvious rivals in any fight to break into the CL monopoly.

 

I'd been a supporter of Allardyce coming to our club for some time prior to his arrival. Ironically, half of my reasoning for this was smashed apart only days after it finally happened. I felt he was someone as good as we could attract in our circumstances, who could make an even greater impact with our natural resources and would overhaul bad practices in player management, refuse to bow to board pressure on all matters and could work on a small budget. With Ashley, the club had a larger budget, seemingly would innately understand the need to improve club practice, supposedly would allow a competent manager to do his job without unnecessary interference and, ultimately, probably could have attracted a high quality manager with more established credentials, no "proving" required.

 

January will tell us a lot, then. I hope Ashley gives us a nice wodge of his own money, and I look forward to seeing Allardyce given the opportunity to spend it. All the same, it might become apparent that A&M have ideas higher than Allardyce, and will seek to find someone who matches their's more closely.

 

Honest and fair assesment imo.

[Baggio]

It'll be interesting to know who Ashley and Mort replace Allardyce with (if they do) as neither seem to know fuck all about football.

[80]

It'll be interesting to know who Ashley and Mort replace Allardyce with (if they do) as neither seem to know fuck all about football.

 

Why do you say that? I'm not inclined to strenuously disagree, mind. I think Mort might not be terrible at making a choice, though. He seems sharp. I hope I'm not wrong and he's impressed by charmers, as other "savvy" business-types have been in Football. I take the fact he's Mike Ashley's caretaker as a positive.

[stozo]

I think if he qualifies for Europe he is definetly safe. I think if he misses Europe he will be in a difficult position and it will depend on a number of circumstances such as FA Cup performance, position in the league, team performances and how his signings have performed.

[TRon]

Allardyce did amazingly well at Bolton but that style of play could be more suited to smaller teams punching above their weight. It's not necessarily going to translate into anything much better and whether that will be good enough for Ashley long term I seriously doubt. There's still plenty of time to go this season, but not many good teams get beat by relegation fodder too many times in  a season.

[Baggio]

It'll be interesting to know who Ashley and Mort replace Allardyce with (if they do) as neither seem to know fuck all about football.

 

Why do you say that? I'm not inclined to strenuously disagree, mind. I think Mort might not be terrible at making a choice, though. He seems sharp. I hope I'm not wrong and he's impressed by charmers, as other "savvy" business-types have been in Football. I take the fact he's Mike Ashley's caretaker as a positive.

 

I just don't think either are that switched on when it comes to football, neither seem to have been great followers of the sport in the past and it makes you think what route they will go down when/if they have to replace Allardyce.

 

Mort seems to me to be a top business man and will eventually turn this club around on the financial side of things, how he'll go about deciding on a replacement for Allardyce is another thing.

[Yorkie]

They'd be stupid to do so. Don't think they will, either.