No 4-3-3 no hope ...

[KaKa]

A bit depressing really, but I think the reality is that without the freedom to implement his preferred 4-3-3 system Allardyce won't bring the level of success we all hope for.

 

We were all worried that the 4-3-3 would mean less exciting football, but the 4-4-2 under Sam has actually been far less exciting than any football played he ever played at Bolton.

 

In the 4-4-2 it appears as though Sam feels the midfield four have to be more defensive minded because unlike the 4-3-3/4-5-1 the system is not as tight and solid in the middle of the pitch. This of course means we always have either Geremi or Smith on the wing along with one of Milner or Zoggy. This really hampers our attacking play and has hurt us in a lot of games.

 

Ironically I also feel that Sam's 4-4-2 system has us playing more long balls than his 4-3-3 because he is less willing to risk losing the ball in the middle of the park as there is one less man in there and therefore less protection.

 

I can't help but feel had we stuck with the system we started off with at Bolton that we would really be coming into our own right now and really beginning to play better football than we are at the moment in this 4-4-2 with no genuine wing play.

 

With all our players fit I think a midfield three of Geremi, Smith and Barton, along with a front three of Zoggy, Viduka and Martins is probably the most exciting we could have as an attacking unit. It is also more likely Sam would be comfortable with this setup because defensively we could easily play a 4-5-1 which would keep things tighter as he prefers.

 

So is Owen alone preventing this? And if so is that fair?

 

 

 

 

[Cronky]

A bit depressing really, but I think the reality is that without the freedom to implement his preferred 4-3-3 system Allardyce won't bring the level of success we all hope for.

 

We were all worried that the 4-3-3 would mean less exciting football, but the 4-4-2 under Sam has actually been far less exciting than any football played he ever played at Bolton.

 

In the 4-4-2 it appears as though Sam feels the midfield four have to be more defensive minded because unlike the 4-3-3/4-5-1 the system is not as tight and solid in the middle of the pitch. This of course means we always have either Geremi or Smith on the wing along with one of Milner or Zoggy. This really hampers our attacking play and has hurt us in a lot of games.

 

Ironically I also feel that Sam's 4-4-2 system has us playing more long balls than his 4-3-3 because he is less willing to risk losing the ball in the middle of the park as there is one less man in there and therefore less protection.

 

I can't help but feel had we stuck with the system we started off with at Bolton that we would really be coming into our own right now and really beginning to play better football than we are at the moment in this 4-4-2 with no genuine wing play.

 

With all our players fit I think a midfield three of Geremi, Smith and Barton, along with a front three of Zoggy, Viduka and Martins is probably the most exciting we could have as an attacking unit. It is also more likely Sam would be comfortable with this setup because defensively we could easily play a 4-5-1 which would keep things tighter as he prefers.

 

So is Owen alone preventing this? And if so is that fair?

 

 

 

I'd agree with nearly all of that. Big Sam is clearly more confident about 4-3-3.

 

Both Owen and Martins are really 4-4-2 players, and that's what's creating the dilemma. 4-3-3 doesn't make best use of either of them. Owen's link-up play is better than it used to be, and he could possibly be converted to a new role, but he still very much sees himself as a finisher.

 

Duff, Milner and Emre could play in a 4-3-3 - Zoggy I'm not so sure about because while he has plenty of pace, his reading of the game is dodgy and he needs a clear role.

 

At the end of the season, Big Sam has a decision to make. It's even possible that he's already investigating the possibility of replacing Martins in January with someone who's better suited to 4-3-3. Owen would be a trickier decision because of his reputation, but ultimately it's the team that matters, not individuals.

[danswan]

For me Martins is ideally suited to 4-3-3, he doesnt mind coming deep and going wide, and he can score from outside the box. Probably doesn't offer as much defensively as Sam would like, especially away from home though. Owen's presence is what is preventing the 4-3-3, I have no doubt of that.

[garth]

I think this is why we could see some players leaving either in January or at least at the end of the season then Sam would be free to buy players who can play in his beloved 4-3-3 system and make it work properly. I think maybe Owen would be the first to go and certainly Shola by the looks of things, he seems to be out favor with Sam.

[toptoon]

I'd stick with 442:

 

Given

 

Beye  Cacapa  Faye   Enrique

 

Milner  Geremi   Emre    Zoggy

 

            Owen  Martins   

 

Subs; Harper, Taylor, Barton, Butt, Smith

 

Everyone is just going to have to work very hard, Martins and/or Owen dropping back into midfield to help out when we do not have the ball, likewise wingers geting back working hard, Milner and Zoggy are very good at getting back and mucking in when we do not have the ball and getting forward when we do. Geremi and Emre are gong to have to work their arses off in midfield too if they can't or don't then replace them with Barton Butt roze etc. If Emre is non effective then bring Barton on. If one of the wingers aren't effective take one off move Martins to the wing and give Smith another go up front (as very impressed the last/only time he played there for us v Everton).

 

However when we do have the ball we need a team that is able to open up the opposition/create and score goals!! If we play without two wingers i fear the worst again. We need potency in our attack!

[danswan]

For me Martins is ideally suited to 4-3-3, he doesnt mind coming deep and going wide, and he can score from outside the box. Probably doesn't offer as much defensively as Sam would like, especially away from home though. Owen's presence is what is preventing the 4-3-3, I have no doubt of that.

 

And, of course, the Football rule book. 

 

Heh Fixed. Sorry, my dealer is late with my crack today.

[relámpago blanco]

Can I just ask.  Why do people (when discussing our style of play) only base their views on our away form.  I'd say the football at home in the last couple of games has been of a good standard.  Obviously after 10 games with a new manager,board and squad we'd expect to be doing better.  I mean really, we should be playing like arsenal home and away and be top of the league.  I'm sick of this kneejerktastic rubbish.

 

We played poor football at home for a few games now we play decent stuff.  Maybe, if you give them a chance the same thing will happen away from home.  Give the bloke more than a few months to find out the best system for our players.

[The College Dropout]

Thing is, if Sam sells Martins & Owen and replaces them with players to play 433 he'll need instant success. Selling these popular players would require him to get it right within the next season.

[Guest Sniffer]

Owen is a class finisher but we'll never see that consistently with a midfield that is totally devoid of creativity and a back four who are only capable of playing hopeful long balls out of defence. As I've said before, he's too good a player for a team that is incapable of playing football on the ground.

[Guest Sniffer]

Then why don't they give it a try?

[Guest RodrigoPalacio]

For me Martins is ideally suited to 4-4-3, he doesnt mind coming deep and going wide, and he can score from outside the box. Probably doesn't offer as much defensively as Sam would like, especially away from home though. Owen's presence is what is preventing the 4-4-3, I have no doubt of that.

 

4-4-3, now that would be cool.

[Guest Joephix]

For me Martins is ideally suited to 4-4-3, he doesnt mind coming deep and going wide, and he can score from outside the box. Probably doesn't offer as much defensively as Sam would like, especially away from home though. Owen's presence is what is preventing the 4-4-3, I have no doubt of that.

 

4-4-3, now that would be cool.

 

Loads of people seem to say that on this forum 

[Slim]

idiots tbh

[danswan]

I know, fucking dimwits 

[Guest BooBoo]

A bit depressing really, but I think the reality is that without the freedom to implement his preferred 4-3-3 system Allardyce won't bring the level of success we all hope for.

 

We were all worried that the 4-3-3 would mean less exciting football, but the 4-4-2 under Sam has actually been far less exciting than any football played he ever played at Bolton.

In the 4-4-2 it appears as though Sam feels the midfield four have to be more defensive minded because unlike the 4-3-3/4-5-1 the system is not as tight and solid in the middle of the pitch. This of course means we always have either Geremi or Smith on the wing along with one of Milner or Zoggy. This really hampers our attacking play and has hurt us in a lot of games.

 

Ironically I also feel that Sam's 4-4-2 system has us playing more long balls than his 4-3-3 because he is less willing to risk losing the ball in the middle of the park as there is one less man in there and therefore less protection.

 

I can't help but feel had we stuck with the system we started off with at Bolton that we would really be coming into our own right now and really beginning to play better football than we are at the moment in this 4-4-2 with no genuine wing play.

 

With all our players fit I think a midfield three of Geremi, Smith and Barton, along with a front three of Zoggy, Viduka and Martins is probably the most exciting we could have as an attacking unit. It is also more likely Sam would be comfortable with this setup because defensively we could easily play a 4-5-1 which would keep things tighter as he prefers.

 

So is Owen alone preventing this? And if so is that fair?

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree with pretty much everything you've said here.

 

All of our recent home games have been 4-4-2, and although he does set out with quite a defensive midfield, the performances at home have been exciting AND attacking.

 

I guess I'm not really sure what you're getting at....

 

I don't know whether this thread is riding on the dissappiontment of the Reading game, but I for one felt entertained at each our home games this season, apart from Villa.

 

The only thing that is worrying is transferring that to our away games.

 

Dont be fooled into think because we've scored three times in the last three home games, that we've been playing swashbukling football. We haven't. For the vast majority of in particular the Everton game we looked pretty average. The performances versues West Ham and Spurs were decent but i wouldnt call it exciting football.

[Cronky]

A bit depressing really, but I think the reality is that without the freedom to implement his preferred 4-3-3 system Allardyce won't bring the level of success we all hope for.

 

We were all worried that the 4-3-3 would mean less exciting football, but the 4-4-2 under Sam has actually been far less exciting than any football played he ever played at Bolton.

In the 4-4-2 it appears as though Sam feels the midfield four have to be more defensive minded because unlike the 4-3-3/4-5-1 the system is not as tight and solid in the middle of the pitch. This of course means we always have either Geremi or Smith on the wing along with one of Milner or Zoggy. This really hampers our attacking play and has hurt us in a lot of games.

 

Ironically I also feel that Sam's 4-4-2 system has us playing more long balls than his 4-3-3 because he is less willing to risk losing the ball in the middle of the park as there is one less man in there and therefore less protection.

 

I can't help but feel had we stuck with the system we started off with at Bolton that we would really be coming into our own right now and really beginning to play better football than we are at the moment in this 4-4-2 with no genuine wing play.

 

With all our players fit I think a midfield three of Geremi, Smith and Barton, along with a front three of Zoggy, Viduka and Martins is probably the most exciting we could have as an attacking unit. It is also more likely Sam would be comfortable with this setup because defensively we could easily play a 4-5-1 which would keep things tighter as he prefers.

 

So is Owen alone preventing this? And if so is that fair?

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree with pretty much everything you've said here.

 

All of our recent home games have been 4-4-2, and although he does set out with quite a defensive midfield, the performances at home have been exciting AND attacking.

 

I guess I'm not really sure what you're getting at....

 

I don't know whether this thread is riding on the dissappiontment of the Reading game, but I for one felt entertained at each our home games this season, apart from Villa.

 

The only thing that is worrying is transferring that to our away games.

 

Dont be fooled into think because we've scored three times in the last three home games, that we've been playing swashbukling football. We haven't. For the vast majority of in particular the Everton game we looked pretty average. The performances versues West Ham and Spurs were decent but i wouldnt call it exciting football.

 

This bugs me a bit as well - this idea that we've been a completely different side when we're playing at home. Big Sam himself seems to be encouraging this idea. The results have obviously been different, but not the performances so much.

[Dave]

I disagree there. Whilst admittedly not exactly playing like Brazil '70, we're set up much more attacking at home, both on the teamsheet and in the visible system. We have been balanced for a start lately. The results have reflected that.

[KaKa]

Time for the 4-3-3 to be given a go I think.

[johnnypd]

Time for the 4-3-3 to be given a go I think.

 

do we have the players for a 4-3-3? who occupies the all-important target man role and who plays as wide forwards?

[Shak]

Time for the 4-3-3 to be given a go I think.

 

do we have the players for a 4-3-3? who occupies the all-important target man role and who plays as wide forwards?

 

Martins and N'Zogbia either side of Viduka is the only forward line that would be in anyway suited to the 4-3-3 IMO.

 

Viduka won't bully people around so he's not ideal for it (Drogba being the perfect 4-3-3 CF for me) but his touch and ability to bring others into the game is top notch so he is someone you can play the ball into feet to.

[Dave]

We played the 4-3-3 today for half an hour. Didn't help.

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

A 4-3-3 doesn't have to have attacking wingers, look at how Milan play.

[Rob]

Time for the 4-3-3 to be given a go I think.

 

do we have the players for a 4-3-3? who occupies the all-important target man role and who plays as wide forwards?

 

Martins and N'Zogbia either side of Viduka is the only forward line that would be in anyway suited to the 4-3-3 IMO.

 

Viduka won't bully people around so he's not ideal for it (Drogba being the perfect 4-3-3 CF for me) but his touch and ability to bring others into the game is top notch so he is someone you can play the ball into feet to.

 

they said on MOD or some other footy analyst thing that viduka was shit in a 443 because he didnt move like the bloke in the centre of the 433 for bolton etc basically saying viduka cannot cover other peoples positions because he wont work to the left and right there by allowing the likes of martins or owen drifting inside ... can understand that because viduka is far from mobile

 

 

[KaKa]

We played the 4-3-3 today for half an hour. Didn't help.

 

I was thinking more from a defensive standpoint.

 

I think we need to play the 4-3-3 until we settle down at the back. It's not like we are so much better attacking wise in the 4-4-2 anyway.

[Dave]

We played the 4-3-3 today for half an hour. Didn't help.

 

I was thinking more from a defensive standpoint.

 

I think we need to play the 4-3-3 until we settle down at the back. It's not like we are so much better attacking wise in the 4-4-2 anyway.

 

Can't have your cake and eat it though. If we play a defensive 4-3-3 (if it's possible) that means Geremi, Butt and maybe Smith in midfield. Not good.