Vogts is having a laugh!

[Guest FlapjackJoe]

If the African Football Federation choose to hold their Championships in Jan/Feb then they have every right to do so. Saying it should be held at the same time as the European Championships just to fit in with us is absurd. Do you realise how hot parts of Africa get during June and July? Still, never mind eh? As long as we're ok, eh?

 

Are you saying that European national teams are more important than African ones? That European countries deserve adequate preparation time prior to Continental Championships but African national teams don't?

 

European clubs and countries simply are more important than African ones, they have the best teams and importantly a lot more money. Yes parts of Africa do get hot in the summer but we've had World Cups in searing heat and we accept it, the WC will be in Africa in July 2010 and players will have to deal with it. There's no reason they can't have it in the summer which would suit them better as they would have more time with their players and would also suit European clubs better who ultimately have the money and the power.

 

It can reach something like 50 degrees in countries like Libya in summer (being June/July), so you want them to never have the opportunity to host the tournament to suit the European football schedule better?

 

The 2010 World Cup is in South Africa, which is the southern hemisphere, so June/July is in the middle of the winter, so that's a non-argument.

 

And surely if "it would suit them better", they would've done it.  And surely CAF would want the best players playing in the cup, so they don't really care what European clubs think.

 

The bottom line is - managers know when they sign African players that they will be potentially unavailable for the duration of the African Nations Cup and should cater for it.

[midds]

If the African Football Federation choose to hold their Championships in Jan/Feb then they have every right to do so. Saying it should be held at the same time as the European Championships just to fit in with us is absurd. Do you realise how hot parts of Africa get during June and July? Still, never mind eh? As long as we're ok, eh?

 

Are you saying that European national teams are more important than African ones? That European countries deserve adequate preparation time prior to Continental Championships but African national teams don't?

 

European clubs and countries simply are more important than African ones, they have the best teams and importantly a lot more money. Yes parts of Africa do get hot in the summer but we've had World Cups in searing heat and we accept it, the WC will be in Africa in July 2010 and players will have to deal with it. There's no reason they can't have it in the summer which would suit them better as they would have more time with their players and would also suit European clubs better who ultimately have the money and the power.

 

It can reach something like 50 degrees in countries like Libya in summer (being June/July), so you want them to never have the opportunity to host the tournament to suit the European football schedule better?

 

The 2010 World Cup is in South Africa, which is the southern hemisphere, so June/July is in the middle of the winter, so that's a non-argument.

 

And surely if "it would suit them better", they would've done it.  And surely CAF would want the best players playing in the cup, so they don't really care what European clubs think.

 

The bottom line is - managers know when they sign African players that they will be potentially unavailable for the duration of the African Nations Cup and should cater for it.

 

Exactly. 

 

Would these tarts be so quick to have a pop if it was the manager of Brazil or Argentina wanting time to prepare their squads?

 

 

Thought not. 

[Parky]

If the African Football Federation choose to hold their Championships in Jan/Feb then they have every right to do so. Saying it should be held at the same time as the European Championships just to fit in with us is absurd. Do you realise how hot parts of Africa get during June and July? Still, never mind eh? As long as we're ok, eh?

 

Are you saying that European national teams are more important than African ones? That European countries deserve adequate preparation time prior to Continental Championships but African national teams don't?

 

European clubs and countries simply are more important than African ones, they have the best teams and importantly a lot more money. Yes parts of Africa do get hot in the summer but we've had World Cups in searing heat and we accept it, the WC will be in Africa in July 2010 and players will have to deal with it. There's no reason they can't have it in the summer which would suit them better as they would have more time with their players and would also suit European clubs better who ultimately have the money and the power.

 

It can reach something like 50 degrees in countries like Libya in summer (being June/July), so you want them to never have the opportunity to host the tournament to suit the European football schedule better?

 

The 2010 World Cup is in South Africa, which is the southern hemisphere, so June/July is in the middle of the winter, so that's a non-argument.

 

And surely if "it would suit them better", they would've done it.  And surely CAF would want the best players playing in the cup, so they don't really care what European clubs think.

 

The bottom line is - managers know when they sign African players that they will be potentially unavailable for the duration of the African Nations Cup and should cater for it.

 

Exactly. 

 

Would these tarts be so quick to have a pop if it was the manager of Brazil or Argentina wanting time to prepare their squads?

 

 

Thought not. 

 

Good tournament to watch lot of fresh open footie normally.

[Thespence]

It can reach something like 50 degrees in countries like Libya in summer (being June/July), so you want them to never have the opportunity to host the tournament to suit the European football schedule better?

 

I agree that they should have the players but Issa Hayatou says it is more to do with rain than heat:

 

 

Issa Hayatou, chief of the Conféderation Africaine de Football, has a tried-and-trusted counter to that quibble. "We hold it in January and February because of our rainy seasons," he explains. "The simple fact is that in June three-quarters of Africa is under water. So just as Europeans can't play in winter because their pitches are frozen, we can't play in summer because most of ours are flooded."

 

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/06/14/africa_should_show_its_strengt.html

[Jimburst]

Can't see the problem with what he's saying tbh. Why he shouldn't he want his players together before it all kicks off? Happens before every European Championships and World Cup, why not with the ACN? 

 

Because the ACN is slap bang in the middle of the domestic season for most of these players perhaps?

 

So that means he doesn't deserve to have adequate time to get his squad sorted? He has to wait until the thing starts before calling his squad together, purely to appease European football fans? Seems a little arrogant, no?

 

Absolutely, but the fact of the matter is that the European leagues are much more important than the ACN, if they wanted preparation time then they should hold it the same time as the European Championships.

 

So Africa should arrange their own Continental Championships to fit in with the European domestic leagues? 

 

For the sake of convenience; Yes - why can't they? The tournament has no need to be in a specific place, does it? Why not make it easier for everyone involved and situate it during the off season?

For the sake of the tournament; Yes - players will all have no excuse but to attend, and all teams will have enough preperation time without DISRUPTING european leagues.

 

Can't see the problem with what he's saying tbh. Why he shouldn't he want his players together before it all kicks off? Happens before every European Championships and World Cup, why not with the ACN? 

 

Because the ACN is slap bang in the middle of the domestic season for most of these players perhaps?

 

So that means he doesn't deserve to have adequate time to get his squad sorted? He has to wait until the thing starts before calling his squad together, purely to appease European football fans? Seems a little arrogant, no?

 

Your arrogance point goes both ways...Is it not arrogant of Vogts to demand the players from the teams they play for with no hint of apology? No suggestion from ANC that it might be willing to find a solution to the problem posed?

 

Sorry Jim, I think whining about losing African players so they can go off and represent their countries is ridiculous. If the African Football Federation choose to hold their Championships in Jan/Feb then they have every right to do so. Saying it should be held at the same time as the European Championships just to fit in with us is absurd. Do you realise how hot parts of Africa get during June and July? Still, never mind eh? As long as we're ok, eh?

 

Are you saying that European national teams are more important than African ones? That European countries deserve adequate preparation time prior to Continental Championships but African national teams don't?

 

It wouldnt be a problem if the majority of leagues in which african players play had their off season in jan, but that is not the case. Many of the first teamers for african countries play in the first teams for european domestic teams.

 

Now, to suggest that one is more important than the other is another debate entirely, but I cannot see how the problem is going to be resolved if neither the europeans or the africans are willing to negotiate. The fact is; neither continent are completely satisfied, and I doubt either ever will be when it comes to the ACN.

 

Looking at it from the african perspective, I can see no issue other than the heat of july stopping it being moved. It's not a matter of perceived 'importance' of either side, but simple convenience.

[Parky]

Play at night.

[midds]

Can't see the problem with what he's saying tbh. Why he shouldn't he want his players together before it all kicks off? Happens before every European Championships and World Cup, why not with the ACN? 

 

Because the ACN is slap bang in the middle of the domestic season for most of these players perhaps?

 

So that means he doesn't deserve to have adequate time to get his squad sorted? He has to wait until the thing starts before calling his squad together, purely to appease European football fans? Seems a little arrogant, no?

 

Absolutely, but the fact of the matter is that the European leagues are much more important than the ACN, if they wanted preparation time then they should hold it the same time as the European Championships.

 

So Africa should arrange their own Continental Championships to fit in with the European domestic leagues? 

 

For the sake of convenience; Yes - why can't they? The tournament has no need to be in a specific place, does it? Why not make it easier for everyone involved and situate it during the off season?

For the sake of the tournament; Yes - players will all have no excuse but to attend, and all teams will have enough preperation time without DISRUPTING european leagues.

 

Can't see the problem with what he's saying tbh. Why he shouldn't he want his players together before it all kicks off? Happens before every European Championships and World Cup, why not with the ACN? 

 

Because the ACN is slap bang in the middle of the domestic season for most of these players perhaps?

 

So that means he doesn't deserve to have adequate time to get his squad sorted? He has to wait until the thing starts before calling his squad together, purely to appease European football fans? Seems a little arrogant, no?

 

Your arrogance point goes both ways...Is it not arrogant of Vogts to demand the players from the teams they play for with no hint of apology? No suggestion from ANC that it might be willing to find a solution to the problem posed?

 

Sorry Jim, I think whining about losing African players so they can go off and represent their countries is ridiculous. If the African Football Federation choose to hold their Championships in Jan/Feb then they have every right to do so. Saying it should be held at the same time as the European Championships just to fit in with us is absurd. Do you realise how hot parts of Africa get during June and July? Still, never mind eh? As long as we're ok, eh?

 

Are you saying that European national teams are more important than African ones? That European countries deserve adequate preparation time prior to Continental Championships but African national teams don't?

 

It wouldnt be a problem if the majority of leagues in which african players play had their off season in jan, but that is not the case. Many of the first teamers for african countries play in the first teams for european domestic teams.

 

Now, to suggest that one is more important than the other is another debate entirely, but I cannot see how the problem is going to be resolved if neither the europeans or the africans are willing to negotiate. The fact is; neither continent are completely satisfied, and I doubt either ever will be when it comes to the ACN.

 

Looking at it from the african perspective, I can see no issue other than the heat of july stopping it being moved. It's not a matter of perceived 'importance' of either side, but simple convenience.

 

I refer you to the post above this one.

 

Jan/Feb is the best time to hold the tournament and if this is not convenient with some European clubs then 'tough shit'. Football exists outside of Europe and it's ridiculously arrogant to assume that the rest of the planet should arrange their own Continental competitions to fit in with Europe. If you think differently then that's up to you.

[Jimburst]

Whats your beef with Europe, midds? Got something to say?

 

Nah, I don't accept its arrogance when the solution makes more sense then the current plan in place. However, at this point I cant think of a solution as I'm not in possession of all the facts. Just 'tough shit' isn't the way to decide upon the impact this has on many football teams across the world, It should be dealt with properly. Newcastle need Martins, and so (presumably) do Nigeria, when there is a conflic of interests, is not the least "arrogant" action to negotiate?

 

Arrogance implies that we assume our game is more important. In that respect I believe we must be arrogant, because in the end, club football (IMO) is more important to the overall game of football than internationals.

 

I do agree with you though midds (to an extent), but it shouldnt be "Tough Sh*t".

[Parky]

Vogts will have to find Oba first.

[Guest black]

Sorry Jim, I think whining about losing African players so they can go off and represent their countries is ridiculous. If the African Football Federation choose to hold their Championships in Jan/Feb then they have every right to do so. Saying it should be held at the same time as the European Championships just to fit in with us is absurd. Do you realise how hot parts of Africa get during June and July? Still, never mind eh? As long as we're ok, eh?

 

Are you saying that European national teams are more important than African ones? That European countries deserve adequate preparation time prior to Continental Championships but African national teams don't?

 

Can I just point out a glaring mistake with this comment?

In the Southern Hemisphere June and July are winter months.

If it's hot in parts of Africa during these months, then it is even hotter in January!

[midds]

Whats your beef with Europe, midds? Got something to say?

 

Nah, I don't accept its arrogance when the solution makes more sense then the current plan in place. However, at this point I cant think of a solution as I'm not in possession of all the facts. Just 'tough shit' isn't the way to decide upon the impact this has on many football teams across the world, It should be dealt with properly. Newcastle need Martins, and so (presumably) do Nigeria, when there is a conflic of interests, is not the least "arrogant" action to negotiate?

 

Arrogance implies that we assume our game is more important. In that respect I believe we must be arrogant, because in the end, club football (IMO) is more important to the overall game of football than internationals.

 

I do agree with you though midds (to an extent), but it shouldnt be "Tough Sh*t".

 

No beef with Europe at all. Just not keen on people assuming the world revolves around Europe and everyone else should change what they do to accommodate Europeans. Expecting the world to fit in with what Europe does is arrogant though tbh. The reasons for holding the ACN in Jan/Feb have already been mentioned. The sport doesn't belong to England, Britain or Europe - Africa have the right to hold their tournament whenever the fuck they like. If this ruffles a few feathers then yes, 'tough shit'.

 

I just hope you are just as outraged when the likes of Given, Owen, Viduka, Emre, Milner and Taylor are called upon to represent their countries. Cos that's totally different isn't it? 

[midds]

Sorry Jim, I think whining about losing African players so they can go off and represent their countries is ridiculous. If the African Football Federation choose to hold their Championships in Jan/Feb then they have every right to do so. Saying it should be held at the same time as the European Championships just to fit in with us is absurd. Do you realise how hot parts of Africa get during June and July? Still, never mind eh? As long as we're ok, eh?

 

Are you saying that European national teams are more important than African ones? That European countries deserve adequate preparation time prior to Continental Championships but African national teams don't?

 

Can I just point out a glaring mistake with this comment?

In the Southern Hemisphere June and July are winter months.

If it's hot in parts of Africa during these months, then it is even hotter in January!

 

These comments emphasise my point about playing all tournaments in the same month tbh. 

[Jimburst]

Whats your beef with Europe, midds? Got something to say?

 

Nah, I don't accept its arrogance when the solution makes more sense then the current plan in place. However, at this point I cant think of a solution as I'm not in possession of all the facts. Just 'tough s***' isn't the way to decide upon the impact this has on many football teams across the world, It should be dealt with properly. Newcastle need Martins, and so (presumably) do Nigeria, when there is a conflic of interests, is not the least "arrogant" action to negotiate?

 

Arrogance implies that we assume our game is more important. In that respect I believe we must be arrogant, because in the end, club football (IMO) is more important to the overall game of football than internationals.

 

I do agree with you though midds (to an extent), but it shouldnt be "Tough Sh*t".

 

No beef with Europe at all. Just not keen on people assuming the world revolves around Europe and everyone else should change what they do to accommodate Europeans. Expecting the world to fit in with what Europe does is arrogant though tbh. The reasons for holding the ACN in Jan/Feb have already been mentioned. The sport doesn't belong to England, Britain or Europe - Africa have the right to hold their tournament whenever the f*** they like. If this ruffles a few feathers then yes, 'tough s***'.

 

I just hope you are just as outraged when the likes of Given, Owen, Viduka, Emre, Milner and Taylor are called upon to represent their countries. Cos that's totally different isn't it? 

 

Well, it is actually. We make time in our own league to accomodate the internationals...

 

Also, the world/european cups aren't in season time, but if they were, I would be very pissed off if I saw the players mentioned fucking off to play in some cup.

[midds]

Whats your beef with Europe, midds? Got something to say?

 

Nah, I don't accept its arrogance when the solution makes more sense then the current plan in place. However, at this point I cant think of a solution as I'm not in possession of all the facts. Just 'tough s***' isn't the way to decide upon the impact this has on many football teams across the world, It should be dealt with properly. Newcastle need Martins, and so (presumably) do Nigeria, when there is a conflic of interests, is not the least "arrogant" action to negotiate?

 

Arrogance implies that we assume our game is more important. In that respect I believe we must be arrogant, because in the end, club football (IMO) is more important to the overall game of football than internationals.

 

I do agree with you though midds (to an extent), but it shouldnt be "Tough Sh*t".

 

No beef with Europe at all. Just not keen on people assuming the world revolves around Europe and everyone else should change what they do to accommodate Europeans. Expecting the world to fit in with what Europe does is arrogant though tbh. The reasons for holding the ACN in Jan/Feb have already been mentioned. The sport doesn't belong to England, Britain or Europe - Africa have the right to hold their tournament whenever the f*** they like. If this ruffles a few feathers then yes, 'tough s***'.

 

I just hope you are just as outraged when the likes of Given, Owen, Viduka, Emre, Milner and Taylor are called upon to represent their countries. Cos that's totally different isn't it? 

 

Well, it is actually. We make time in our own league to accomodate the internationals...

 

Also, the world/european cups aren't in season time, but if they were, I would be very pissed off if I saw the players mentioned fucking off to play in some cup.

 

With all due respect, you're missing the point.

 

the Internationals? Fucking hell! International matches involving African countries aren't as important?

 

It was well known when the ACN was taking place for years and years. People are only twisting and fretting because they haven't been intelligent enough to have a squad to deal with it.

 

Africa has the right to choose when to hold the ACN. Full stop.

[danswan]

It wouldn't be such a problem if the ACN wasn't held so frequently. They should hold it every four years. The Copa America is every 4 years now due to similar concerns, I believe.

[Lotus]

Sorry Jim, I think whining about losing African players so they can go off and represent their countries is ridiculous. If the African Football Federation choose to hold their Championships in Jan/Feb then they have every right to do so. Saying it should be held at the same time as the European Championships just to fit in with us is absurd. Do you realise how hot parts of Africa get during June and July? Still, never mind eh? As long as we're ok, eh?

 

Are you saying that European national teams are more important than African ones? That European countries deserve adequate preparation time prior to Continental Championships but African national teams don't?

 

Can I just point out a glaring mistake with this comment?

In the Southern Hemisphere June and July are winter months.

If it's hot in parts of Africa during these months, then it is even hotter in January!

Ghana is in the northern hemisphere.

[Fatwax]

Whats your beef with Europe, midds? Got something to say?

 

Nah, I don't accept its arrogance when the solution makes more sense then the current plan in place. However, at this point I cant think of a solution as I'm not in possession of all the facts. Just 'tough s***' isn't the way to decide upon the impact this has on many football teams across the world, It should be dealt with properly. Newcastle need Martins, and so (presumably) do Nigeria, when there is a conflic of interests, is not the least "arrogant" action to negotiate?

 

Arrogance implies that we assume our game is more important. In that respect I believe we must be arrogant, because in the end, club football (IMO) is more important to the overall game of football than internationals.

 

I do agree with you though midds (to an extent), but it shouldnt be "Tough Sh*t".

 

No beef with Europe at all. Just not keen on people assuming the world revolves around Europe and everyone else should change what they do to accommodate Europeans. Expecting the world to fit in with what Europe does is arrogant though tbh. The reasons for holding the ACN in Jan/Feb have already been mentioned. The sport doesn't belong to England, Britain or Europe - Africa have the right to hold their tournament whenever the f*** they like. If this ruffles a few feathers then yes, 'tough s***'.

 

I just hope you are just as outraged when the likes of Given, Owen, Viduka, Emre, Milner and Taylor are called upon to represent their countries. Cos that's totally different isn't it? 

 

Well, it is actually. We make time in our own league to accomodate the internationals...

 

Also, the world/european cups aren't in season time, but if they were, I would be very pissed off if I saw the players mentioned f****** off to play in some cup.

 

With all due respect, you're missing the point.

 

the Internationals? f****** hell! International matches involving African countries aren't as important?

 

It was well known when the ACN was taking place for years and years. People are only twisting and fretting because they haven't been intelligent enough to have a squad to deal with it.

 

Africa has the right to choose when to hold the ACN. Full stop.

 

It seems that every time somebody gives you an answer of some kind you try to twist the words.

 

Other International competitions are held out of season because then the entire situation is made easier for the club, country and also the player. Fair play if ACN is in Jan-Feb it's just one of those things, but you must be able to see why people would be annoyed, especially since teams like Newcastle will have to go another two or three fixtures without our top goalscorer potentially.

[Disco]

Although it is problem, managers know the score when they buy an African player. Should be every 4 years though.

[STM]

Only saying he will enforce what he is entitled to tbh.

 

Maybe Owen will be fit for Newcastle for the duration.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There again, he may not be!

 

Look who crawls out from under a stone the second spurs win a couple of games.

[Offshore]

Nigeria to deprive clubs

Kaveh Solhekol

Chelsea, Everton, Portsmouth, Sunderland and Newcastle United are facing the prospect of losing some of their African players for up to six weeks after Berti Vogts, the Nigeria coach, insisted that all members of his squad had to attend a 14-day training camp in January before the start of the African Cup of Nations in Ghana.

 

Barclays Premier League clubs are already concerned about the loss of players for the tournament, which starts on January 20 and ends on February 10, and they will be dismayed that Vogts wants players such as Obafemi Martins, of Newcastle, and John Obi Mikel, of Chelsea, to report for international duty on January 4.

 

That is the way that things have to be and there will be no exceptions, Vogts said. There will be a two-week training camp and all the players will be there. They will not be allowed to arrive later.

 

Vogts was speaking after Nigerias 1-0 defeat by Australia at Craven Cottage on Saturday, a match that was watched by almost 12,000 supporters but that was overshadowed for Nigeria fans - by the withdrawal of high-profile players such as Kanu, the Portsmouth forward, Yakubu Ayegbeni, the Everton striker, and Mikel.

 

I know some people say they were not injured but that is not true, Vogts said. Maybe if the African Cup of Nations was played in the summer we would not have all these problems.

 

 

Havent' got a problem when the ACN is held, everyone knew about beforehand.

 

I presume by the strong wording he uses that it must be a FIFA ruling that he can call a pre-tournament training/get together camp of 'x' length and other than clubs putting pressure on their players to have a 'niggle' or whatever theres nowt we/they can do about it.

 

[Swissmag]

Oba will get some time pitch at least...  >

[Swissmag]

"ON THE pitch" of course... 

[Teasy]

Start making national teams pay players wages if the player misses club games.  I'd bet that pretty quickly we'd see the African Nations Cup moved in to the off season, and we'll see far less pointless friendlies as well..

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Start making national teams pay players wages if the player misses club games.  I'd bet that pretty quickly we'd see the African Nations Cup moved in to the off season, and we'll see far less pointless friendlies as well..

 

No need to do that, just make it so that the club is not liable for wages during international periods - put the pressure on the player to decide if they want to play or not.

[Jamie]

Lets hope Oba just goes AWOL again in January then eh