The N'zogbia, Milner, Enrique situation

[Kimbo]

and drop barton??

 

Or Geremi.

[olliemort]

Right, i thought i'd start a thread on the situation regarding N'zogbia, Enrique and Milner and were they are being played.

 

I believe and i'm sure others do too, that BS is making a huge tactical error by playing N'zogbia at LB and Milner at LM whilst leaving Enrique on the bench. Where is the sense in playing a naturally right-footed, right-sided player on the LW and a natural attacking LW with very good pace and exceptionally good dribbling (although not quite the finished article in his crossing ability) at LB were he seems to be uncomfortable and physically not very capable?

 

Surely it would make more sense to play Milner at RM were he is most comfortable playing and were he doesnt continuosly have to drop his shoulder and move the ball to his right foot before getting his cross in and N'zobia at LM his natural position, were his direct running and normally quite decent crossing has caused many a defence in previous seasons major problems. Then put our only true natural LB Enrique (i'm not including Babayaro!) actually in that position instead of on the bench. Enrique has looked a hell of a lot stronger than N'zogbia has at LB.

 

Hit it spot on mate!

 

Imagine this... Milner in his proper position, N'zogbia in his proper position and Enrique actually on the pitch in his proper position. This would leave us with a threat on the right with the pace of Beye and the dribbling and crossing ability of Milner and the pace of N'zogbia and the natural ability that Enrique obviously has to stop the oppositions wingers playing whilst also possessing the ability to split defences open with his left-peg. Now were does this leave Geremi well TBH i don't really care, but i think the fact he is our captain is clouding BS judgment, but this is an argument that is already being discussed in the "can we drop our captain" thread.

 

So anyway ive put in a poll, so what do you guys think, is BS playing the right tactics using the formation he is using or is my idea (albeit pretty obvious) a more appropriate option?

[olliemort]

he wont drop our "captain fantastic" gerimi though will he...

 

zogs plays left back for france under 21's which is why he's playing there

In all fairness though Geremi played well tonight!

I dont care he would be and is way better in lm!

[Guest optimistic nit]

Obviously, Enrique's not so hot at the minute in training.

 

i really don't think this. i feel its more to do with long term plans than short term fitness or performance.

[Tom_NUFC]

Adebayor's goal was because Charlie made an error at left back. Not Zog's fault - he's not an LB.

 

And yet we have an LB, Enrique on the bench, while we're crying out for some more width.

 

Milner and the Zog on the wings and Enrique at LB - it's not hard.

 

 

 

Not meaning to jump on the lad but anyone with a brain in their head knows you don't try to play the ball like that from that positon. As a winger you will find yourself in that position from time to time so its no excuse saying "well not his fault, he isn't a left back".

 

Agree. It was a silly error regardless of what position you play.

 

Aye, fair enough, but an LB wouldn't make that mistake though.

[Keefaz]

Obviously, Enrique's not so hot at the minute in training.

 

i really don't think this. i feel its more to do with long term plans than short term fitness or performance.

 

That doesn't make sense to me. If Enrique was playing better than Zog, he'd start, surely?

[Dave]

Adebayor's goal was because Charlie made an error at left back. Not Zog's fault - he's not an LB.

 

And yet we have an LB, Enrique on the bench, while we're crying out for some more width.

 

Milner and the Zog on the wings and Enrique at LB - it's not hard.

 

 

 

Not meaning to jump on the lad but anyone with a brain in their head knows you don't try to play the ball like that from that positon. As a winger you will find yourself in that position from time to time so its no excuse saying "well not his fault, he isn't a left back".

 

Agree. It was a silly error regardless of what position you play.

 

Aye, fair enough, but an LB wouldn't make that mistake though.

 

Seen loads of Premier League left-backs make that mistake over the years.

[Guest Edd]

Is it worth pointing out that N'Zogbia has been really shit, well actually invisible, whenever he's played LW this season but has at least had a few good games at LB.  He'll be lucky to get in the team when everyone is fit and, as in Enriques case, adjusted to the Premier League.

[Guest optimistic nit]

Obviously, Enrique's not so hot at the minute in training.

 

i really don't think this. i feel its more to do with long term plans than short term fitness or performance.

 

That doesn't make sense to me. If Enrique was playing better than Zog, he'd start, surely?

 

i don't think so. allardyce may want to bring enrique in gently (as he has in the past) or he may want to play zog at left back to toughen him up a bit or get his defensive attributes up. i think it has more to do with the future than the present. enrique has looked at very worst competent when he's played, and yet we play a left mid at left back, a right mid at left mid and as far as i can tell no right mid. more to do with the future imo.

[Guest optimistic nit]

Adebayor's goal was because Charlie made an error at left back. Not Zog's fault - he's not an LB.

 

And yet we have an LB, Enrique on the bench, while we're crying out for some more width.

 

Milner and the Zog on the wings and Enrique at LB - it's not hard.

 

 

 

Not meaning to jump on the lad but anyone with a brain in their head knows you don't try to play the ball like that from that positon. As a winger you will find yourself in that position from time to time so its no excuse saying "well not his fault, he isn't a left back".

 

Agree. It was a silly error regardless of what position you play.

 

Aye, fair enough, but an LB wouldn't make that mistake though.

 

 

did he have many options other than that though? he could have just booted it, but the zog doesn't like to do that and one thing we're shite at is giving men on the ball people to pass too.

[Cronky]

Playing with two wingers in a 4-4-2 can you leave you a bit exposed defensively, unless they're real quality. I think Big Sam is right in his decision to only play one, given the options that we have.

 

Plus, he's obviously a believer in 4-3-3, and I'm relieved that he's now sticking with what he believes in and is giving the players a chance to find their feet. The only debate for me is Enrique v Zoggy for left back.

[Kimbo]

Is it worth pointing out that N'Zogbia has been really s***, well actually invisible, whenever he's played LW this season but has at least had a few good games at LB.  He'll be lucky to get in the team when everyone is fit and, as in Enriques case, adjusted to the Premier League.

 

How many times has he played left wing this season? It's only a couple isn't it? I remember he played on the right a couple of times aswell.

[Toon Amy]

i was going to mention Geremi's lack of an attacking mind in my OP, but couldn't be bothered, Geremi is not a RM end

and yet wor goal tonight came from a cross from Geremi on the right, (flicked on by Smith and touched on by Martins).

interestingly, the stats disagree (with the OP). because Milner also scores from the left.

 

I think he plays Zogs as a left back to make him more "rounded" as a player. And doesn't as yet have complete confidence in Enrique for the big games. Lots of factors that could be the reason. People like to simplify though.

[Dave]

It was Beye's cross.

[Toon Amy]

It was Beye's cross.

Are you sure? It was a pretty terrible stream, mind. lol.

 

You could be right, however....

[Keefaz]

i was going to mention Geremi's lack of an attacking mind in my OP, but couldn't be bothered, Geremi is not a RM end

and yet wor goal tonight came from a cross from Geremi on the right, (flicked on by Smith and touched on by Martins).

interestingly, the stats disagree (with the OP). because Milner also scores from the left.

 

I think he plays Zogs as a left back to make him more "rounded" as a player. And doesn't as yet have complete confidence in Enrique for the big games. Lots of factors that could be the reason. People like to simplify though.

 

And people like to overcomplicate. I think Sam is playing Zog because he thinks he's the better player for that particular match. His job's hanging in the balance, I don't think he's got time to start moulding players etc. when he knows he needs results ASAP.

[Toon Amy]

i was going to mention Geremi's lack of an attacking mind in my OP, but couldn't be bothered, Geremi is not a RM end

and yet wor goal tonight came from a cross from Geremi on the right, (flicked on by Smith and touched on by Martins).

interestingly, the stats disagree (with the OP). because Milner also scores from the left.

 

I think he plays Zogs as a left back to make him more "rounded" as a player. And doesn't as yet have complete confidence in Enrique for the big games. Lots of factors that could be the reason. People like to simplify though.

 

And people like to overcomplicate. I think Sam is playing Zog because he thinks he's the better player for that particular match. His job's hanging in the balance, I don't think he's got time to start moulding players etc. when he knows he needs results ASAP.

Depends if he believes in what he is doing I suppose. Only he can answer that.

[Guest optimistic nit]

definately beye's cross.

[Toon Amy]

definately beye's cross.

oh well. I'll accept that, and it pretty much defeats my whole first sentence, in that post.... lol.

 

however I would still dispute the premise that he is not capable of playing RM. He can play RB/DM/RM/CM yes? I reckon Mourinho would if he felt like it anyway.

 

Personally though I do agree in a lot of ways, I  don't think he is as good as Milner there. Zogs best posititon is LM/LW.

 

I can't help thinking though, that there must be a reason why Sam does it, it is not just to spite us, and he doesn't want to lose, so there must be a reason.

[Chris_R]

 

however I would still dispute the premise that he is not capable of playing RM. He can play RB/DM/RM/CM yes? I reckon Mourinho would if he felt like it anyway.

 

 

Problem with playing Geremi at RM is that he can't beat a man. At all. I don't doubt his quality to actually put a ball in to the box, but he doesn't have the technical ability of Milner or the speed of N'Zogbia to actually go past a man to get a cross in in the first place.

 

All he can do is stand there and hit it into the penalty area from level with the edge of the box. Put a half-decent DL against him and he'll cover the angle into the box rendering all our output from the right side obselete.

[Shak]

I'd drop Milner and try N'Zogbia in the advanced role on the left, give him a run if games there and he'll be more effective than Milner can ever hope to be IMO.

[sicsfingeredmong]

Zoggy doesn't have the varied & measured passing game which most natural, & very good fullbacks have at their disposal. The likes of Cole, Miguel etc whilst being exceptional on the ball going forward - ie. dribbling - in their own right but when under the pump from a pressing attacking outfield they'll pass their way out of trouble. They know how to calculate the situation and dribble & pass as they see fit.

 

However with Zoggy it's a totally different kettle of fish. His one and only instinct is to 'dribble and beat his man one-on-one', and this style of play deep in your own half is Russian Roulette stuff. Losing the ball inside the opposition's defending half costs you an attacking opportunity but Zoggy, with his attributes, as a winger will beat his man more often not, and therefore he can be forgiven when losing out to his opposite number on occasion but there'll be that one moment where he'll wreak havok and create a goal/golden opportunity.

 

But his natural instincts, in relation to his ball useage & attacking tendencies when playing aty the fullback position, cost us goals & brings about added & unneeded pressure on the rearguard when it goes balls up.

 

He has be restored to the left flank, in a 442 formation.

[Cronky]

Zoggy doesn't have the varied & measured passing game which most natural, & very good fullbacks have at their disposal. The likes of Cole, Miguel etc whilst being exceptional on the ball going forward - ie. dribbling - in their own right but when under the pump from a pressing attacking outfield they'll pass their way out of trouble. They know how to calculate the situation and dribble & pass as they see fit.

 

However with Zoggy it's a totally different kettle of fish. His one and only instinct is to 'dribble and beat his man one-on-one', and this style of play deep in your own half is Russian Roulette stuff. Losing the ball inside the opposition's defending half costs you an attacking opportunity but Zoggy, with his attributes, as a winger will beat his man more often not, and therefore he can be forgiven when losing out to his opposite number on occasion but there'll be that one moment where he'll wreak havok and create a goal/golden opportunity.

 

But his natural instincts, in relation to his ball useage & attacking tendencies when playing aty the fullback position, cost us goals & brings about added & unneeded pressure on the rearguard when it goes balls up.

 

He has be restored to the left flank, in a 442 formation.

 

I think your point about Zoggy's limited range of passing is very valid. Long term, I think Enrique is likely to win the battle for the left back spot.

 

I wouldn't want to see him further forward in a 4-4-2. Not at the moment. We've suffered too much from changes of formation.

 

I also think playing Milner and Zoggy as wingers leaves us vulnerable defensively, and of the two I'd say Milner gives us more.

[Guest alex]

Enrique is being eased in. Allardyce always did that at Bolton with foreign recruits and long-term he will play at left-back with (hopefully) N'Zogbia getting a chance playing in front of him.

[TRon]

I like the look of Enrique, and like Beye, I think he'll get better. Personally I'd start him more, especially if we are going to be playing higher up the pitch like the last couple of matches. The defence c omes under less pressure so tend to look less shit.