4-3-3 will improve us

[Yorkie]

Blackburn (A)

Arsenal (H) - aka, finest performance of the season so far

Birmingham (H)

Fulham (A)

 

The last four games we've stuck with a very similar team throughout and i think it's proved to work very well for us. The results are evidence of that (the Blackburn one aside, but that was arguably our best away performance after Bolton anyhow), and the performances are clearly improving too.

 

Blackburn was good and we were unfortunate, we were still in it at 2-1 and were unfortunate not to pick up a point. Arsenal was the most resilient performance of the season; the graft became quality in that one. At home to Birmingham, that 25 minute spell in the first half, i'd say, is the best attacking football we've played all season. Traditional all-out attack, originating largely from the left-wing (which i'll come onto), creating tons of chances (let down only by naff finishing) that would have resulted in about four goals in any other game. Fulham was a poor game but we were more than comfortable and fortunate to sneak a win.

 

My point is, i think this is the formation to go with for now. I've ummed and ahhed quite a lot personally, and i was all for the 4-4-2, but i think as a team we've done better, because particular individuals profit from the formation. Sam clearly knows this formation better, he knows how to deploy it and who to deploy. And finally, we've got some continuity throughout the team. One or two players need a kick up the arse (Geremi, Oba, Butt away from home), but it's working and i really don't think it should be changed.

 

About the 'particular individuals profit from the formation', i think this really is the case. N'Zogbia is one of those players; regardless of whether or not you think he's wasted at left-back, i think it's doing him the world of good. It's improving him as a player i think - he's not in the game as much and he's developing other aspects. At the start of the season, actually - as recent as Blackburn - he was ropey at the back. But his run of games at left-back has seen him improve his physical ability and i've seen him make several interventions, particularly against Fulham.

 

It'll help him lose his 'headless-chicken-ness' playing back there too, where he can attack from deep, penetrating only when he needs to and be a surprise for the oppositon's defense. He was really prominent in that first half with Birmingham. His link-up play is improving too, he knows how to find Milner and whoever else is infront of him. I lost count earlier in the season the amount of times he ran a bit, got to 25 yards, and blazed it hopelessly over. Aye, he did that once against Fulham, but it's cutting down - thank God. See the Derby game, bloody horrific. Deploying Zoggy like this will help him a massive amount in the long-term.

 

Another one it's improved is Barton. He's quickly getting back to full match practise and working with two more centre-mids is doing him good. He doesn't have to do all the work, backwards and forwards, like he would do with just one other centre-mid.

 

Martins. This formation helps Martins in the long-term because it'll improve his all-round play. He'd not doing brilliantly at the moment, but with no winger behind him, he's going to have to learn to move around to find the passes, and also learn to find his teammates when he's got the ball, seeing as he's not smack bang in the centre. So playing him here is going to improve his movement, which has been a weakness of his (even though i feel it's improved this season anyhow). I really think that not playing him in a dead-centre striker's role will improve his awareness and teach him how to get into the game properly. Once he's got the hang of it, of course.

 

So anyhow yeah. In the very long-term, i think everything leads to a 4-4-2, but at the moment 4-3-3 is the way to go because: it's allowing the continuity/time for the team to settle at last, it'll improve particular players in the long-run, it's difficult to break down when the defense are playing well, and we're winning.

 

I'm not great at the uber-posts but i hope you get what i mean. 4-3-3 ftw!

[tmonkey]

Always been a 4-3-3 fan - well, since some of the best sides in Europe have started using it frequently in the past half decade, and since Souness wanted us to switch to that system.

 

As long as you have that lone striker capapble of playing on his own, and two wide players who can chip in with goals whilst adding some pace or creativity, then that system is far, far superior to a basic 4-4-2. The central midfield is flooded, allowing players to get forward without fear of having no cover, and if two midfielders get forward somewhat regularly, you have the 5 attacking players that youd get in a basic 4-4-2 system (2 wingers, 2 forwards, 1 attacking midfielder in the 442, 2 wingers, 1 forward, 2 central midfielders in the 433) - but with more cover, more possession, more movement, making the team harder to pick up and contain.

 

Personally, I cant wait for Big Sam to get rid of half of some of our "best" attacking players and replace them with players who are more suited to a 4-3-3. Im honestly looking forward to the sales of Martins and Owen - maybe im arrogant, but I think we can do better if we really had to, especially with Ashley's wealth, no debts, and a large wage slice to fill in if Owen/Martins were moved on.

[wor jackie]

442 + wingers

[Yorkie]

Nice insight.

[Keefaz]

Strangely enough, I've always hated 4-3-3 since Souness forced us to play it with horrible results.

[Crumpy Gunt]

4-3-3 is a complete waste of time at this stage.

 

Sell Martins and Owen and search for the new George Riley and Tony Cunningham and you know what .....

[wor jackie]

milner on the right, n'zogbia on the left? why the fuck not?!!

[Menace]

4-3-3 does not work for us.

 

If we played 4-4-2 I'm sure we would be in a much better state than we are currently.

[wor jackie]

in all honesty, tmonkey is right in saying that if 433 is to work, selling martins and owen is right. however, why not play the players we have in a 442 which will save a hell of a lot of time. for me our strongest side:

 

given

beye  cacapa  faye  enrique

milner  barton  emre  zog

viduka    martins

[Rich]

I'd like to see us try a 4-1-4-1, using a proper holding midfielder and then 4 players with a bit of artistic license, similar to what Everton play and Arsenal have been using while van Persie has been out injured.

 

I hate the static rigidity of the way we've been playing lately - it's like only the wide-men up top are the only players with the slightest degree of freedom within the system.

 

If I picked this team, I'd try Smith/Viduka up front, two from Milner/Duff/N'Zogbia wide, Barton and Emre in the middle, with either Geremi, Butt or Rozehnal doing the Makelele role. See how we go.

[Shak]

Nice post.

 

Think 4-3-3 is the way we'll most likely going from now on, and it has been doing us good. Looking forward to getting some better suited players, especially in wide areas.

 

N'Zogbia is being improved I suppose, but I'd just worry about him getting his chance especially when Duff gets back. Think he's perfect for the left sided role in a 4-3-3, I'd just let him off the leash and have him as one of our most attacking players with a LB behind him.

 

If we're mad to splash some cash I think Quaresma could be an ambitious target to play the other side, reckon he'd flourish in the direct style of the Premiership. Other teams could be interested of course, but can't hurt to try in the summer.

[Keefaz]

I'd like to see us try a 4-1-4-1, using a proper holding midfielder and then 4 players with a bit of artistic license, similar to what Everton play and Arsenal have been using while van Persie has been out injured.

 

I hate the static rigidity of the way we've been playing lately - it's like only the wide-men up top are the only players with the slightest degree of freedom within the system.

 

If I picked this team, I'd try Smith/Viduka up front, two from Milner/Duff/N'Zogbia wide, Barton and Emre in the middle, with either Geremi, Butt or Rozehnal doing the Makelele role. See how we go.

 

Agreed. Would much rather see us with that formation which plays more to our strengths at the minute, assuming 4-4-2 is out the window.

[Howaythelads]

4-3-3 is a complete waste of time at this stage.

 

Sell Martins and Owen and search for the new George Riley and Tony Cunningham and you know what .....

 

George Riley and Tony Cunningham were class, man. Shame such shite players as Beardsley and Waddle couldn't fit in to the system.....

[Cronky]

I'd agree that we've looked better with 4-3-3, although clearly it doesn't suit every player.

 

Apart from anything else, it's the system that Sam believes in. He has to stand or fall by those beliefs, instead of all this chopping and changing to suit particular individuals.

 

Mentioning no names, Michael.

[tmonkey]

I'd like to see us try a 4-1-4-1, using a proper holding midfielder and then 4 players with a bit of artistic license, similar to what Everton play and Arsenal have been using while van Persie has been out injured.

 

I hate the static rigidity of the way we've been playing lately - it's like only the wide-men up top are the only players with the slightest degree of freedom within the system.

 

If I picked this team, I'd try Smith/Viduka up front, two from Milner/Duff/N'Zogbia wide, Barton and Emre in the middle, with either Geremi, Butt or Rozehnal doing the Makelele role. See how we go.

 

Thats basically a snapshot of a 4-3-3 at a certain point in a match. The only difference on paper is that the two central midfielders are pushed slightly further forward, and the two wingers slightly backwards. Ultimately, youre still talking about a lone forward, two wingers, and 3 central midfielder, one of whom sits back all the time - ie, a 4-3-3, but a more attack minded one.

[Howaythelads]

Wow, Championship Manager is fascinating stuff.......

[Mick]

4-3-3 is a bluff, it's a way of trying to get people to buy into 4-5-1 and a way of having to explain a negative formation.  I can't stand the formation and most of the football we've played with it has been shite so far.

 

The only reason we've done better recently is because we've had a settled side, I'm sure we would have at least done as well if we'd stuck with 4-4-2 and I'm equally sure that the football would have been more exciting.

 

How many people were complaining about our performance against Fulham?  Reading through the match thread I would guess that as many people fell asleep as didn't.  We played Ok'ish against Blackburn but if anybody thinks we did it because of the system then you're forgetting what had been going on the week before that game.

 

 

[Howaythelads]

I like 3-3-3-1, myself.

 

How aboot this....

 

              Given

      Roz    Taylor  Cacapa

Beye        Faye          Duff

Martins    Barton        Zog

                Smith

[Rich]

I'd like to see us try a 4-1-4-1, using a proper holding midfielder and then 4 players with a bit of artistic license, similar to what Everton play and Arsenal have been using while van Persie has been out injured.

 

I hate the static rigidity of the way we've been playing lately - it's like only the wide-men up top are the only players with the slightest degree of freedom within the system.

 

If I picked this team, I'd try Smith/Viduka up front, two from Milner/Duff/N'Zogbia wide, Barton and Emre in the middle, with either Geremi, Butt or Rozehnal doing the Makelele role. See how we go.

 

Thats basically a snapshot of a 4-3-3 at a certain point in a match. The only difference on paper is that the two central midfielders are pushed slightly further forward, and the two wingers slightly backwards. Ultimately, youre still talking about a lone forward, two wingers, and 3 central midfielder, one of whom sits back all the time - ie, a 4-3-3, but a more attack minded one.

 

Well, of course, but there's a big difference between the way Everton and Arsenal have played this "4-3-3" recently, when compared to ourselves. Technically, in my eyes, they play 4-1-4-1.

 

With Arsenal usually using Hleb and Eboue in the wide areas and Everton Arteta and Pienaar (none of whom are as attacking as Milner/Martins and none of whom take up positions so far up the pitch/close to the central striker) and having Flamini/Carsley playing the holding role (which Nicky Butt certainly doesn't do and which only Smith away at Sunderland has played recently) the differences are obvious.

 

You just have to look at the amount of times the likes of Cahill, Osman, Fabregas and Rosicky get beyond Yakubu/Adebayor to see that, when compared with our central midfielders. It's a completely different system/style of play - theirs is better and would suit us more at this point in time, IMO, as it would mean no place for Martins/Owen.

[The College Dropout]

I'd agree that we've looked better with 4-3-3, although clearly it doesn't suit every player.

 

Apart from anything else, it's the system that Sam believes in. He has to stand or fall by those beliefs, instead of all this chopping and changing to suit particular individuals.

 

Mentioning no names, Michael.

 

No but you see, you've mentioned a name.

[Kev]

442 not 433

 

[Guest ObaStar]

what do people think of playing Barton Emre in the middle with either Geremi or Butt slightly behind them in a 4-3-3. Is that too atacking?  Or what about putting Enrique at LB and having Barton Emre and N'zogbia in the middle. How crucial is Geremi to our team?

[Thespence]

what about putting Enrique at LB

 

CrAzY talk man.

[Montey]

I read a commentary by Sir Les the other day where he was saying that 4-3-3 is the way to go, but that Martins is completely unsuited to it.  His main point was that Martins didn't have the discipline required to maintain the formation as he constantly drifts in to the middle of the field collapsing the formation and interfering with the centre-forward's function.  I think he's right.

 

I think 4-3-3 could work very well, if we stick to it, and if we ditch Martins (no doubt a good talent, but highly inconsistent).  I have been wondering how we'd go with such a formation fronted by:  Smith - Viduka - Owen.  With Viduka acting as a holding guy, he can act as a target man for the mid field and defence, passing forward, Owen and Smith then have time to find positions coming in to their respective goal posts and Viduka can slot a pass through to whichever one is in the better position.  I think this plays to all of their strengths, Viduka being excellent at holding possession in the area, Smith and Owen both being reasonably good at finding spaces and executing reflex shots at goal.

[TRon]

4-3-3 is a bluff, it's a way of trying to get people to buy into 4-5-1 and a way of having to explain a negative formation.  I can't stand the formation and most of the football we've played with it has been shite so far.

 

The only reason we've done better recently is because we've had a settled side, I'm sure we would have at least done as well if we'd stuck with 4-4-2 and I'm equally sure that the football would have been more exciting.

 

How many people were complaining about our performance against Fulham?  Reading through the match thread I would guess that as many people fell asleep as didn't.  We played Ok'ish against Blackburn but if anybody thinks we did it because of the system then you're forgetting what had been going on the week before that game.

 

 

 

You are right, 4-3-3 is really 4-5-1 the way Big Sam plays it. I don't have a problem with it if it's effective and it the personnel is suited to it. Mourinho did it pretty well.