Should Sam Allardyce get the Sack? (Main Page Poll)

[Guest LucaAltieri]

We won't get relegated. Last season Wigan stayed up with 38 points - only 4 wins away from what we have now, with 17 games left.

 

If the form of the current bottom 3 doesn't improve over the rest of this season then 31 points will be enough for safety - just a couple of wins needed.

 

Give Allardyce the rest of this season, plus a wedge of cash in the summer and if things haven't improved by this time next year, then you sack him.

 

 

 

I wouldn't trust him with any more money.

 

Great idea! Lets blind fold him and tie his hands behind his back as well. That'll help.

[Guest johnson293]

I wouldn't trust him with any more money.

 

Why though?

 

I posted in the other thread why I felt some could criticise his summer spending, but a lot of it wasn't all down to him....

 

Firstly, he was appointed by Shepherd and we dont know how much he was told he had to spend. Then the takeover happened, and he told the media the new owners took a while to get their heads around the speed of football transfers, and being able to move for targets - a reason we apparently missed out on a few players.

 

He mave spent about £25m in total, but circa £15m was generated by selling Parker, Dyer and Solano - two of whom wanted to leave - not necessarily the manager wanting rid of them!

 

A few of the summer signings were made late in the window, and may have been all that was left - some have worked when played (Faye) and some appear to have struggled a bit (Enrique) for one reason or another.

 

People would have compalined if he hadn't made signings in the summer, as we needing deadwood clearing, and new players brought in - but he was still working to a tight budget, and I didn't have too many complaints with his signings then, and still don't - though Barton is looking a bit of a dodgy one at this moment!

 

 

EDIT: Oops!

[Dave]

A fiver each. We woz robbed.

[eaststar]

One issue I want to raise is this: weren't we all moaning about how crap our fullbacks were last year and how those positions were the most problematic (i.e. carr and babayaro first choice still makes me cringe).

One thing Sam has done is dramatically improved those positions. Beye is proving to be very reliable (and versatile right back) and Zoggers has played very well as a left back.  Sam's also brought in Enrique who I think will take some time to settle but will be a decent player sooner rather than later. 

You can also see he is trying to improve the Centre backs as well although he is probably finding that area more difficult at this stage.

The point is, Sam seems to be addressing issues one by one.  He doesn't seem too concerned about scoring goals ....YET.  Rather he seems concerned about the defensive performances - and those performances seem to be much better than last year. 

Give Big Sam some time.   

[black_n_white]

WE MUST KEEP SAM!!! Its like any job it takes time!! Wait till he gets accustomed with the club and the players....making us hard to beat and a potential for winning cups etc, this may take up to 3-4 years but its got to be worth it for a 5 minute success in the league!

I believe some of the players Sam brought in during the summer were not his first choice, example; the centre-back pairing of Cacapa & Rosenhal as he wanted Ben Haim and Distin but due to the timing of Sam being appointed he duly missed out! This proves that having been in the job for a lengthy period these type of proper signings could have been properly scouted, signed and sealed...not going to happen with managers coming every 6-12months!!!

[NG32]

not going to happen with managers coming every 6-12months!!!

 

People want a public hanging,  its going to happen at some point.

 

I hope we give him at least 2 seasons.

[Guest neesy111]

give him time, like the fact it took souness 18 months and whole load of cash to almost relegate us

 

and don't say he wasn't successful as he has won a lot more trophies than sam ever will

[Guest BillyRay Valentine]

i concur with black_n_white. he should be given till the end of the season at the very least before we even remotely start contemplating sacking and ONLY if there is still zero signs of improvement and a suitable replacement is ready willing and able to take charge. personally, he MUST be given at least another season.

 

looking at the club as a whole it seems we were right on the brink when ashley and mort rolled into town and to say allardyce had a big job on his hands was an understatement of epic proportions. look back through our recent history, even a dribbling idiot can see the 2 points where newcastle achieved anything of note coincided with the 2 longest serving managerial stints in keegan (92-97) & robson (99-04). in between that no one has lasted more than 18 months and if anyone seriously believes that carrying on this trend of ditching managers and turning over the squad every year or so is going to get us anywhere is dreaming.

 

the keegan days are long gone and are almost certainly never going to return, that was simply a different era of football. robson served up some tasty stuff and we overachieved to a certain degree under him, but our overall record was hardly spectacular and i certainly remember watching a fair amount of dross too.

 

i have a feeling that once the players get it into their skulls that allardyce is going to stick around we'll start to see some serious improvements. we may have a huge fan base and a great stadium but we must earn the right to success through stability and good sense.

[Guest iliketoonarmy]

He needs to stay.

 

I never wanted him here in the first place. I thought it was the wrong appointment but now he is here we have to give him time.

 

Half a season gone... predictably after the initial honeymoon period we've had a run of poor form. It was always going to happen.

 

The result of late can be justified very easily. Derby are fighting for their lives, Wigan are looking good under Bruce (it's their honeymoon period, and that'll be over by February), Chelsea were fortunate, Man City were fortunate, and both of those are good sides.

 

"It's not just the result its the performances!1!!" Very well. But please remember this is a squad that has been ripped apart and glued back together on a budget... and it needed to be. Nearly everyone on here was screaming for "Sib out! Bramble out! Carr out! Babayaro out! Dyer out! Parker out! Not good enough!" ... well its been done. The squad is looking very bare. We've cut our losses with the deadwood and started to re-build. That's a lengthy process. The new players need time to gel.

 

More than that, Sam is imposing his methods which are new to everyone, not just the new arrivals. Its a period of adjusting for all involved. Add to that the pressure that inevitably comes from the numpty element of St. James'. The players are clearly feeling the strain as well as the manager... however, form is temporary. There is no reason to assume that we won't start to gain an understanding between the players and finish the season on a run of good form. We need to accept that we are in a period of transition and there are going to be some tough times.

 

Relegation form. We're not getting relegated. As I said, there's no reason to expect that we won't finish the season on a high... however even if form doesn't improve there are squads worse than ours sitting below us. Even assuming we lose to Man United the worst we can possibly be is 12th in the league.

 

I have stated before previously that we should consider letting Sam go if we get dragged into a relegation battle... but on reflection, even that shouldn't cost him his job. Firstly, who would you replace him with? Is there anyone out there (who'd come to us) that is more likely to save us from relegation than Sam? Secondly, they're Sam's players. He's happy to work with Alan Smith and Joey Barton. He's picked players for his system and any new manager might not want to/know how to use the squad we have.

 

Finally, if form doesn't improve, a relegation battle might be a blessing in disguise if it aides he team in terms of playing together and forming a team spirit. Having a tough time of it may ultimately be the best thing for the squad. I don't believe it will come to that, not for a second, but the way I see it there is little or no justification for sacking Sam. Unless Mort gets a phone call from Ranieri/Hiddink/Wenger's agent offering their services then sacking Sam will almost certainly be a bad idea in the long and short-term.

 

Don't let Sven see your post,he will laugh.

[Guest BillyRay Valentine]

agreed  hindu, things are looking cack. however there have been flashes of good stuff, just gotta keep calm and give him a fair crack of the whip. generalising a bit here, but most players these days are hardly blessed with much foresight and seem to be hugely affected by speculation regarding the managers position, which i believe contributes quite significantly to on-field performance - they think a managers on the brink and quickly lose interest, motivation and fight preferring to get the wagons in a ring, sit tight and see what happens. even if they're not that way inclined individually, the whole safety in numbers mentality will inevitably draw those individuals in - i mean when was the last time a player was sacked?

[oldtype]

The worrying thing is, everyone keeps mentioning keeping him until the end of the season in the hope that we show signs of improvement, when if everyone is brutally honest with themselves, the football we've played for the most of this season has been far worse than under Roeder, but no-one was willing to give him any time.

 

I personally don't think we should sack him, purely because (apart from Shearer) there are no replacements. But he hasn't impressed me even slightly, and I can't see it improving any time soon.

 

People have really, really short memories concerning how horrible we were under Roeder. Compare yesterday to the corresponding fixture last year (0-1 to Man City) does anyone honestly believe that we played worse than we did then?

[Guest alex]

The worrying thing is, everyone keeps mentioning keeping him until the end of the season in the hope that we show signs of improvement, when if everyone is brutally honest with themselves, the football we've played for the most of this season has been far worse than under Roeder, but no-one was willing to give him any time.

 

I personally don't think we should sack him, purely because (apart from Shearer) there are no replacements. But he hasn't impressed me even slightly, and I can't see it improving any time soon.

 

People have really, really short memories concerning how horrible we were under Roeder. Compare yesterday to the corresponding fixture last year (0-1 to Man City) does anyone honestly believe that we played worse than we did then?

Totally agree. Not happy with the way we are playing by any means but the re-write of history re: Roeder is ridiculous.

[NG32]

People have really, really short memories concerning how horrible we were under Roeder. Compare yesterday to the corresponding fixture last year (0-1 to Man City) does anyone honestly believe that we played worse than we did then?

 

Last season was far worse.

 

People need to stop getting histerical for a sacking.

 

We all know is keggs at the minute but lets at least give the man a couple of years.

[Benwell Lad]

The worrying thing is, everyone keeps mentioning keeping him until the end of the season in the hope that we show signs of improvement, when if everyone is brutally honest with themselves, the football we've played for the most of this season has been far worse than under Roeder, but no-one was willing to give him any time.

 

I personally don't think we should sack him, purely because (apart from Shearer) there are no replacements. But he hasn't impressed me even slightly, and I can't see it improving any time soon.

 

Some performances this season have plumbed the depths (Derby, Sundlund & Wigan away) but generally we have played better than under Roeder.

[oldtype]

People should also consider the fact that the Premiership is getting stronger and stronger every year.

 

Teams who actually have long term plans - Everton, Portsmouth, Villa, Blackburn etc. get exponentially harder to beat year by year as their teams gel and the manager is able to shape the squad in his image.

 

Even other teams who lack that kind of long-term thinking such as Man City and West Ham have made huge steps up some years (like this one) by spending cash and getting lucky on a couple of signings.

 

The Premiership as a whole is also just getting better and better as more money flows into it and it slowly eclipses La Liga and Serie A as the world's biggest football league.

 

While everyone else has been getting better, we took huge backwards steps under Souness and Roeder. Naturally, it's going to be a difficult job for Sam to not only get us on the path to recovery but also to make up for the already wide gap between us and other mid table teams.

 

[ChezGiven]

People should also consider the fact that the Premiership is getting stronger and stronger every year.

 

Teams who actually have long term plans - Everton, Portsmouth, Villa, Blackburn etc. get exponentially harder to beat year by year as their teams gel and the manager is able to shape the squad in his image.

 

Even other teams who lack that kind of long-term thinking such as Man City and West Ham have made huge steps up some years (like this one) by spending cash and getting lucky on a couple of signings.

 

The Premiership as a whole is also just getting better and better as more money flows into it and it slowly eclipses La Liga and Serie A as the world's biggest football league.

 

While everyone else has been getting better, we took huge backwards steps under Souness and Roeder. Naturally, it's going to be a difficult job for Sam to not only get us on the path to recovery but also to make up for the already wide gap between us and other mid table teams.

 

 

Spot on. Its impossible to make a judgement on the current state of the team without taking into account our competitors and the changes that have been made to their teams.

[Guest Hoop Blah]

But what's also important is how he's finished his last season, very badly. A good start to this season has seen us gain some very valuable points, only this time the wheels fell off early, he couldn't turn it round at Bolton in the final few months, and thats a good indication for me how he's going to fair here with 1000% more pressure on his back.

 

A big factor in the way Bolton finished was the fact that they all knew Allardyce was leaving.

 

Fergie, and Sir Bobby IIRC, showed that once the players know/think a manager is on his way out it serioulsy impacts the performances and results.

 

 

But they didn't know he was leaving, the time from where he first announced to actually being allowed to leave was less than a week, and it spanned one game, so that really is irrelevant.

 

 

 

I'm sure it was pretty obvious to all at Bolton that Sam was on his way out.  It was just a matter of time and I'd have thought that most of the players would've at least realised that.

[Dave]

People should also consider the fact that the Premiership is getting stronger and stronger every year.

 

Teams who actually have long term plans - Everton, Portsmouth, Villa, Blackburn etc. get exponentially harder to beat year by year as their teams gel and the manager is able to shape the squad in his image.

 

Even other teams who lack that kind of long-term thinking such as Man City and West Ham have made huge steps up some years (like this one) by spending cash and getting lucky on a couple of signings.

 

The Premiership as a whole is also just getting better and better as more money flows into it and it slowly eclipses La Liga and Serie A as the world's biggest football league.

 

While everyone else has been getting better, we took huge backwards steps under Souness and Roeder. Naturally, it's going to be a difficult job for Sam to not only get us on the path to recovery but also to make up for the already wide gap between us and other mid table teams.

 

 

Spot on. Its impossible to make a judgement on the current state of the team without taking into account our competitors and the changes that have been made to their teams.

 

Agreed, I made a similar point the other day about the relative strengths of our current rivals. There are loads of decent teams these days. That's why it's possibly a bit silly trying to compare boards etc...

[Martin Lol]

People should also consider the fact that the Premiership is getting stronger and stronger every year.

 

Teams who actually have long term plans - Everton, Portsmouth, Villa, Blackburn etc. get exponentially harder to beat year by year as their teams gel and the manager is able to shape the squad in his image.

 

Even other teams who lack that kind of long-term thinking such as Man City and West Ham have made huge steps up some years (like this one) by spending cash and getting lucky on a couple of signings.

 

The Premiership as a whole is also just getting better and better as more money flows into it and it slowly eclipses La Liga and Serie A as the world's biggest football league.

 

While everyone else has been getting better, we took huge backwards steps under Souness and Roeder. Naturally, it's going to be a difficult job for Sam to not only get us on the path to recovery but also to make up for the already wide gap between us and other mid table teams.

 

 

 

I still have seen nothing to convince me that NUFC would be better off with a change of manager.  It could be thought of again at the end of this season but I believe therre will be enough happening by then to think that progress is being made.

[Guest LucaAltieri]

He needs to stay.

 

I never wanted him here in the first place. I thought it was the wrong appointment but now he is here we have to give him time.

 

Half a season gone... predictably after the initial honeymoon period we've had a run of poor form. It was always going to happen.

 

The result of late can be justified very easily. Derby are fighting for their lives, Wigan are looking good under Bruce (it's their honeymoon period, and that'll be over by February), Chelsea were fortunate, Man City were fortunate, and both of those are good sides.

 

"It's not just the result its the performances!1!!" Very well. But please remember this is a squad that has been ripped apart and glued back together on a budget... and it needed to be. Nearly everyone on here was screaming for "Sib out! Bramble out! Carr out! Babayaro out! Dyer out! Parker out! Not good enough!" ... well its been done. The squad is looking very bare. We've cut our losses with the deadwood and started to re-build. That's a lengthy process. The new players need time to gel.

 

More than that, Sam is imposing his methods which are new to everyone, not just the new arrivals. Its a period of adjusting for all involved. Add to that the pressure that inevitably comes from the numpty element of St. James'. The players are clearly feeling the strain as well as the manager... however, form is temporary. There is no reason to assume that we won't start to gain an understanding between the players and finish the season on a run of good form. We need to accept that we are in a period of transition and there are going to be some tough times.

 

Relegation form. We're not getting relegated. As I said, there's no reason to expect that we won't finish the season on a high... however even if form doesn't improve there are squads worse than ours sitting below us. Even assuming we lose to Man United the worst we can possibly be is 12th in the league.

 

I have stated before previously that we should consider letting Sam go if we get dragged into a relegation battle... but on reflection, even that shouldn't cost him his job. Firstly, who would you replace him with? Is there anyone out there (who'd come to us) that is more likely to save us from relegation than Sam? Secondly, they're Sam's players. He's happy to work with Alan Smith and Joey Barton. He's picked players for his system and any new manager might not want to/know how to use the squad we have.

 

Finally, if form doesn't improve, a relegation battle might be a blessing in disguise if it aides he team in terms of playing together and forming a team spirit. Having a tough time of it may ultimately be the best thing for the squad. I don't believe it will come to that, not for a second, but the way I see it there is little or no justification for sacking Sam. Unless Mort gets a phone call from Ranieri/Hiddink/Wenger's agent offering their services then sacking Sam will almost certainly be a bad idea in the long and short-term.

 

Don't let Sven see your post,he will laugh.

 

Old hat.

 

Sven can laugh all he wants. Wenger and Fergie might agree with me.

 

Exception, not the rule blah blah etc

[TaylorJ_01]

I'm not sure about Sam. Or Spam, ham and Jaap Stam for that matter.

[Guest leon b]

Whats the point in sacking him now? that would be dumb in my opinion.I don't know many premiership club who get success in such a short space or time so how does sacking him benefit us?

 

Fair enough some of the results have been poor and we haven't be as positive as we could have but the man needs time.I for one hope he gets the backing of the board and stays at least until the end of the season.

All this talk of alan shearer is foolish!! needs to earn stripeds elsewhere and get experience before he even considers taking the toon job.

[Guest]

People should also consider the fact that the Premiership is getting stronger and stronger every year.

 

Teams who actually have long term plans - Everton, Portsmouth, Villa, Blackburn etc. get exponentially harder to beat year by year as their teams gel and the manager is able to shape the squad in his image.

 

Even other teams who lack that kind of long-term thinking such as Man City and West Ham have made huge steps up some years (like this one) by spending cash and getting lucky on a couple of signings.

 

The Premiership as a whole is also just getting better and better as more money flows into it and it slowly eclipses La Liga and Serie A as the world's biggest football league.

 

While everyone else has been getting better, we took huge backwards steps under Souness and Roeder. Naturally, it's going to be a difficult job for Sam to not only get us on the path to recovery but also to make up for the already wide gap between us and other mid table teams.

 

 

Spot on. Its impossible to make a judgement on the current state of the team without taking into account our competitors and the changes that have been made to their teams.

 

Our results and performances against the likes of Everton, West Ham & Spurs haven't particularly been bad, in fact, we've had some good results.

 

But you can't excuse the two non-performances against Derby, Wigan, Sunderland, etc.

[Baggio]

The worrying thing is, everyone keeps mentioning keeping him until the end of the season in the hope that we show signs of improvement, when if everyone is brutally honest with themselves, the football we've played for the most of this season has been far worse than under Roeder, but no-one was willing to give him any time.

 

I personally don't think we should sack him, purely because (apart from Shearer) there are no replacements. But he hasn't impressed me even slightly, and I can't see it improving any time soon.

 

People have really, really short memories concerning how horrible we were under Roeder. Compare yesterday to the corresponding fixture last year (0-1 to Man City) does anyone honestly believe that we played worse than we did then?

 

I'm not talking about last night. Yeah for the first 30 mins we played some good stuff, but the rest of the match was on par with a Roeder performance.

 

The Derby games were on par, if not worse, than anything Roeder served up, as were the Sunderland, Liverpool, Portsmouth, Wigan away, Reading away, Fulham away (even though we won).

 

FFS we've only had 10 shots on target in the games against Fulham, Wigan, Reading, Liverpool and Sunderland put together.

 

There seems to be a lot of blind faith going around that he will turn it around given time, but have you honestly seen anything to suggest he can?

 

I'm not saying Roeder was a better manager, but at least you could see what he was trying to do (e.g. playing people in correct positions (majority of time), setting up 442 most matches, not just hoofing it long at every given opportunity, actually trying to attack teams, all with a ridiculous injury list).

 

Another thing that really pisses me off is that pundits and armchair fans keep saying he's "dealing with a lot of injuries" and he "hasn't been able to put out a regular team". That is a load of bollocks. He's had plenty of opportunites to put out a settled team but he keeps chopping and changing because he has a new scapegoat every week. He's hardly had any injuries in comparison to previous seasons but the excuse still rolls out.

 

You've changed your tune, it wasn't long ago you were on here defending Allardyce when people were pointing our problems out.

[merlin]

One issue I want to raise is this: weren't we all moaning about how crap our fullbacks were last year and how those positions were the most problematic (i.e. carr and babayaro first choice still makes me cringe).

One thing Sam has done is dramatically improved those positions. Beye is proving to be very reliable (and versatile right back) and Zoggers has played very well as a left back.  Sam's also brought in Enrique who I think will take some time to settle but will be a decent player sooner rather than later. 

You can also see he is trying to improve the Centre backs as well although he is probably finding that area more difficult at this stage.

The point is, Sam seems to be addressing issues one by one.  He doesn't seem too concerned about scoring goals ....YET.  Rather he seems concerned about the defensive performances - and those performances seem to be much better than last year. 

Give Big Sam some time.   

 

N'Zogbia is NOT a LB, and if you think he's doing OK there, you obviously missed the Chelsea game....

Enrique should have played more than he has - we do not have the luxury of buying 6m players and 'grooming' them for the future at this time.