Michael Owen

[Yorkie]

Btw, Rebel_yell, given the topic of your posts (there seems to be a regular trend) - are you Michael Owen?

[Tisd09]

It was a quality goal from him on Sunday but I worry that we will only see this in flashes. I hope not! I think he is talented and if he ever gets  back to his best form he is one of the best strikers in Europe but he looks so short of that at the moment.

 

He has looked well short of average so far this season, hopefully his goal on Sunday will kick him and us on this season.

 

Its nice that he has had a good run of games, this will only help his match sharpness, I bet the goal was a massive duck off his back. He normally goes on a goal scoring run after breaking his duck, if he does again at least we got something to look forward to. I think he will benefit from Martins playing alongside him.

[Ericz]

Shearer had his strength and power to fall back on when his pace left him. he was also, even after his injuries, a better finisher than Owen was at any stage of his career. Shearer could seriously compete in the air and bully defenders, well as drop back and link up, leaving players like Bellamy and Dyer to create space and stretch the game. there was a good line in one of the papers at the weekend about Owen and England, that he spends most of his games loitering about the half way line, that "Now, Owen plays more with his back to goal – and there is nothing more pointless in international football than a 5ft 8in targetman with no pace". i'd also add that Owen has little strength and the robustness of fibre glass.

 

Owen's game has been based on getting into good positions, not his actual finishing, which tends to be pretty weak and fairly imprecise. his best finishes are also instinctive and quick, when he has to think about things, or if he gives a keeper or defender chance to react, he's nothing special. contrary to popular belief his finishing was never, ever world-class, it was just that the quality of chances he could manage to get to due to pace and positioning left him with little to do but tap it in. the chances he is getting now are far less gilt-edged and leave him with more work than he is capable of doing. look at his shots from outside the area, he just meekly parries them. a 32 year old shearer would rip the net open given a similar chance. he'll end up doing this a lot more now as he struggles to get completely free of defenders. how many times can he bring it right up to the keeper? only when he catches defenders pushing up trying to play offside, like against man utd. even then he is relying on the opposition making a mistake more than anything. these chances come around say 3 or 4 times a season, and they are so marginal that there's always a chance of a linesman ruling you offside.

 

when he joined us he was quick around the pitch. he no longer had the pace to sustain a run over 50 yards, or the ability to go past players, but he could still, mixed with his anticipation, get 5 yards on a player. when he's tried to do this recently he's failed, even against some poor centre-halves. outpaced and outmuscled by Stoke centre-halves.

 

on set-pieces when everyone starts from a static position and all you need is an inch of space to get a shot or header away in the blink of eye he will still be a massive danger, but in open play i think he's finished. unless of course he is playing in a team that completely dominates the territory and spends most the match attacking, putting in cross after cross, has a centre-forward alongside him with good movement and an ability to hold it up and slip Owen through. but then any striker will flourish in that kind of set-up. Keegan might create such a team tho. i wouldnt play Owen away from home as he's unlikely to ever get that kind of service and is useless on the break.

 

That was an insightful view I thought.

 

As much as I always say... try to be encouraging etc...

 

Frankly, I don't rate this generation of English strikers very highly. Simply put, the best strikers currently are not English.

 

However, having said that... I don't wish to make any pre-matured judgment just yet. This is a new team, Owen just came back from injury, perhaps it's fitness reason, confidence reason or getting accustomed to new tactical play, I'm prepared to observe more before coming to any final conclusion.

 

 

 

Regards,

Ericz.

[KaKa]

I'll tell you what was a pleasant surprise yesterday. After he scored his energy levels went up another 50% and you could see he was buzzing. That was a huge sign for me.

 

Believe me I have been very dissapointed with Owen, but that was a significant sign yesterday. I think his moral has been way down, not just due to his injuries, but also due to consecutive seasons under Souness, Roeder and Allardyce. I think the pressure of scoring has also got to him quite a bit lately.

 

He looked a lot better after he scored and even in his interview after the game yesterday he seemed a lot more enthusiastic than usual.

 

There could be life in the old dog yet, and I certainly didn't anticipate that. I think as we continue to play better football and build confidence in ourselves as a team, we will probably see him improve quite a bit, both in his actual play as well as his demeanour.

[Guest rebel_yell12]

You certainly seem to be slating him.  You've criticised his movement, his finishing, his commitment...that's a pretty good way of slating him, all the way around.  I don't know how you can claim he doesn't care enough about the club (nor do I know how to claim he DOES, to be fair, as I don't know the man and can't tell you his mind/heart).  His movement has been fairly good (again, see the Wenger comments, among others who've said his runs are good but his finishing has been rusty, which I've admitted).  

 

Also, I think the lad played comparatively well yesterday.  What, aside from his notable scuff of his admittedly best chance (not as easy as it looks, coming across him as it did, he only had the far corner to put it in, a difficult skill BUT yes, one he probably would have scored in his best performances) did you find so poor?  It was his best performance since his last injury -- which one do you think was better, if you disagree with me?  I didn't say it was his best possible or anything, just indicated that he was improving.  His work rate was better, he had the ball in the net three times...it was improvement.  And IMPROVEMENT is always good, IMO.  Something to encourage.

 

What wonderful, gilted chances has he missed of late?  I seem to remember several matches in a row now where he's had nothing but tiny scraps and has spent most of the match practically in midfield trying to help there rather than playing where he is best (up front).  You keep referring to chances, but I just can't remember any (aside from the one he missed yesterday, which was balanced by the three in the back of the net).  Maybe my mind has gone.  I'd like a reminder, if you please.  And I'm hardly the only one denying he's had chances.  It's all over the papers, in quotes from men like Wenger, Keegan, SBR and others (even Shearer, I seem to recall).  I'm not making that up myself, mate.  His conversion rate hasn't been bad, there's just not been anything there to convert.  Not since his last layoff for injury, at any rate.  

 

My apologies for giving the impression, if I did, that you had been derogatory towards Owen as an individual.  That was unintentional on my part.  But you've slated everything about his game and certainly seem to dislike him as a player.  I don't think Owen can lose his "instincts" (isn't that the whole concept of instincts?) but I do think he's just coming back to full fitness.  I think his movement has been good (maybe, yes, "brilliant" at points), and he's an intelligent player (see his set-up for the goal he was allowed yesterday).  If he stays fit, and Keegan sorts the midfield and a partner for him, Owen will come good.  I just don't think he's been "poor" this season in anything but his haphazard fitness.  Which (touch wood) he seems to be overcoming.

 

One thing we do agree on, Yorkie-Geordie, is that it will be nice to see Oba and Owen up front.  We've seen all the other partnerships, time to see what these two can do together.  

 

And Ka Ka brought up a good point, that Owen's had three managers at Newcastle (plus a few games under our mate Nigel), three managers for England and three managers at Real the season before he came.  He must be so sick of "regime changes" that he can't remember ending a season with the same manager he started it with.  Truth is, I've seen a marked change in him since Keegan came in -- more excitement, a lot more talk about the future at Newcastle, etc.  Good to hear, from my point of view at least.

 

PS  No, I'm not Michael Owen.  Don't know him, never met him.  I do quite like him and rate him highly, have for more than ten years (since the FA Youth Cup matches for Liverpool).  I just think he's being unfairly criticised in some quarters.  And I hope that this goal takes a weight off him, and he hits a streak.  He's always tended to streaks, to be honest.  First, he has to be fit for a "streak" though, and that is his greatest weakness now, not his class as a striker.  In my opinion, at least.  

[Guest rebel_yell12]

Whoops.  To correct myself, Newcastle have had FOUR managers since Owen's arrival -- Souness, Roeder, Allardyce and now Keegan.  Plus those couple under Nigel.  He's not had a consistent club manager since he played under Houllier.  Wonder what that does to ANY player's morale...could explain the travails of Given (and many others), whose form is hardly perfect at the moment.

[Thespence]

MICHAEL OWEN reckons his return to goalscoring form could not have come at a better time for England.

 

 

The Newcastle striker is raring to go for Fabio Capello’s first game in charge tomorrow night after finally ending his three-month Premier League drought.

 

 

His super header against Middlesbrough on Sunday was typical Owen and the former Liverpool and Real Madrid star is ready to prove the doubters wrong once again at Wembley.

 

 

Owen, 28, said: “It’s part of my life and my career I suppose. I have gone three games without a goal and been criticised.

 

 

“Two of those games were away at Arsenal when we lost 3-0 twice, so it’s not like we had a lot of chances.

 

 

“Three games isn’t a long time, four games is probably a crisis but it is always nice to score. I am feeling good.”

 

 

Newcastle boss Kevin Keegan is yet to mark his second coming at St James’ Park with a win.

 

 

Owen put the Toon ahead on the hour in Sunday’s Tyne-Tees derby but Robert Huth equalised for Boro with three minutes left.

 

 

But Owen added: “It gave us a lift to score against Middlesbrough because we hadn’t scored under the new manager.

 

 

“People say we didn’t score for three games but let’s not get carried away — we did play Arsenal twice.

 

 

“They are a fine team that we aren’t as good as, basically, and it was always going to be difficult in those two games.

 

 

“We needed a goal to ignite everyone but, unfortunately, we couldn’t hang on against Boro.

 

 

“This gives us something to work on. It would be a boost to get that win.

 

 

“There’s no doubt once everyone gets their confidence back we can go far.

 

 

“If anyone is going to give us that confidence it is this manager. I am sure that will happen and we will pick up.”

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article762251.ece

[Yorkie]

You certainly seem to be slating him.  You've criticised his movement, his finishing, his commitment...that's a pretty good way of slating him, all the way around.  I don't know how you can claim he doesn't care enough about the club (nor do I know how to claim he DOES, to be fair, as I don't know the man and can't tell you his mind/heart).  His movement has been fairly good (again, see the Wenger comments, among others who've said his runs are good but his finishing has been rusty, which I've admitted).  

 

Also, I think the lad played comparatively well yesterday.  What, aside from his notable scuff of his admittedly best chance (not as easy as it looks, coming across him as it did, he only had the far corner to put it in, a difficult skill BUT yes, one he probably would have scored in his best performances) did you find so poor?  It was his best performance since his last injury -- which one do you think was better, if you disagree with me?  I didn't say it was his best possible or anything, just indicated that he was improving.  His work rate was better, he had the ball in the net three times...it was improvement.  And IMPROVEMENT is always good, IMO.  Something to encourage.

 

Fuck me. I praised his performance yesterday. It was hardly scintillating though. What i said was, if that was his best performance (which was neither here or there really imo), then it justifies my point that he's had a pretty ineffectual run of games/season.

 

As far as slating him, i've criticised his game. I'd regard 'slating him' as giving him absolutely no chance whatsoever, like Toon Taylor for eg. Even Johnnypd said he was 'finished aside from set pieces'. I didn't say that. I've praised him and said i've had faith in him, aswell as criticised him.

 

What wonderful, gilted chances has he missed of late?  I seem to remember several matches in a row now where he's had nothing but tiny scraps and has spent most of the match practically in midfield trying to help there rather than playing where he is best (up front).  You keep referring to chances, but I just can't remember any (aside from the one he missed yesterday, which was balanced by the three in the back of the net).  Maybe my mind has gone.  I'd like a reminder, if you please.  And I'm hardly the only one denying he's had chances.  It's all over the papers, in quotes from men like Wenger, Keegan, SBR and others (even Shearer, I seem to recall).  I'm not making that up myself, mate.  His conversion rate hasn't been bad, there's just not been anything there to convert.  Not since his last layoff for injury, at any rate.  

 

Manchester City - just after half time. Through on goal, dead centre, fantastic through ball to him from N'Zogbia. Passed it to the keeper.

 

Stoke City - Through on goal, had a defender alongside him and the keeper infront. Really nice weighted pass by Viduka (i think it was). Couldn't control the thing and surrendered the chance of a one on one.

 

First Arsenal game - ball played across the box from Carr, Owen was slow to react and couldn't reach the ball when he was running in on goal.

 

Middlesbrough - the ball that was pulled back to him and he scuffed it something rotten. It might not be an easy technique, but again, if he's this sublime striker he should be able to handle it, no?

 

Those are the very good chances that he's missed, off the top of my head. But it's not just the chances he's been given that he's missed. He hasn't made anything for himself. As i stated in my first post in this thread, the amount of times he just runs aimlessly straight at the keeper when the winger is coming through, is alarmingly regular. That's showing to me a lack of this amazing predatory instinct. Doing that achieves nothing; even Martins knows to drop off from time to time.

 

He can't fester his own chances anymore because he's lost a lot of pace. This loss of pace also causes him to get caught offside far too often, cos he needs that extra yard. See second Arsenal game.

 

My apologies for giving the impression, if I did, that you had been derogatory towards Owen as an individual.  That was unintentional on my part.  But you've slated everything about his game and certainly seem to dislike him as a player.  I don't think Owen can lose his "instincts" (isn't that the whole concept of instincts?) but I do think he's just coming back to full fitness.  I think his movement has been good (maybe, yes, "brilliant" at points), and he's an intelligent player (see his set-up for the goal he was allowed yesterday).  If he stays fit, and Keegan sorts the midfield and a partner for him, Owen will come good.  I just don't think he's been "poor" this season in anything but his haphazard fitness.  Which (touch wood) he seems to be overcoming.

 

As i've said, i have faith in the guy. Everything i've said in the previous two paragraphs of mine are subject to change in my view; like i've said, because if you'd read my posts , i've said on more than one occassion i still have hope for the guy, i still think he can become important, and i can give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

One thing we do agree on, Yorkie-Geordie, is that it will be nice to see Oba and Owen up front.  We've seen all the other partnerships, time to see what these two can do together.  

 

And Ka Ka brought up a good point, that Owen's had three managers at Newcastle (plus a few games under our mate Nigel), three managers for England and three managers at Real the season before he came.  He must be so sick of "regime changes" that he can't remember ending a season with the same manager he started it with.  Truth is, I've seen a marked change in him since Keegan came in -- more excitement, a lot more talk about the future at Newcastle, etc.  Good to hear, from my point of view at least.

 

This changing of managers thing is the same for everybody, infact it's probably less of an effect for Owen, given that he played 9 games for Souness, 4 for Roeder, and a handful for Allardyce. Bollocks theory.

 

PS  No, I'm not Michael Owen.  Don't know him, never met him.  I do quite like him and rate him highly, have for more than ten years (since the FA Youth Cup matches for Liverpool).  I just think he's being unfairly criticised in some quarters.  And I hope that this goal takes a weight off him, and he hits a streak.  He's always tended to streaks, to be honest.  First, he has to be fit for a "streak" though, and that is his greatest weakness now, not his class as a striker.  In my opinion, at least.  

 

Anyway, that's all i'm going to say. It's pretty obvious that we're going to agree to disagree.

[Yorkie]

The thing that worries me most about Owen is his pace though, generally speaking. Or lack of.

[Dave]

Running in treacle ftl.

[ElDiablo]

The thing that worries me most about Owen is his pace though, generally speaking. Or lack of.

 

I reckon he's still up there as one of the quickest in the squad it's just his acceleration is no more basically.

[Yorkie]

ftl?

[Guest rebel_yell12]

Yeah, we're probably going to agree to disagree.  First thing though, I must apologize...mea culpa... much of the strength (perhaps vitriol?) of my first post should probably not have been directed at you, as it was culmination of other persons' posts that had me frustrated.  I need to give myself a time out.  Again, my apologies.  Apparently, I've had my "I am 12 years old" moment.

 

The whole club has been painfully ineffectual, not just Owen.  There's only so much I expect from one player.  But I saw improvement yesterday, especially in Owen after he scored.  I'm the silver-lining type of fan, I guess.  I'm scraping for a silver-lining of late, what can I say.  Improvement is doing it for me at the moment.

 

I had forgotten the chance against Citeh.  Ouch.  Still can't remember the Stoke one...no idea why.  His miss against Arsenal was frustrating as all f***, but I wasn't too sure if that was a solid "chance", maybe it was just my view while watching the match.  It looked like little Mo just couldn't reach, but I could have just not seen another angle shown on a replay or MOTD or something.  I admitted yesterday's error, but I still thought his 3 in the net to one scuffed ratio was pretty good return, even if two were disallowed (one wrongly).  And as rusty as Owen is...I was disappointed but not shocked.  He's never been that creative, he lived off Madrid's midfield, England's midfield, and a Liverpool side very familiar with his style and preferences (hell, he played with Gerrard since the age of 11).  

 

I think Owen has had some dodgy offsides calls of late (see ManU match).  That sounds like an excuse, and I admit he's had his fair share of legitimately offside moments, but he's been prone to that all his career.  Hence, my laughing hysterically in his first match back after his knee, when Reading fans sang "same old Owen, always offside".  I've always considered it eagerness and a bit of impatience (never claimed the lad was perfect) to make his run, but maybe I'm wrong in that.  As for his runs at the keeper, I'm surprised by how often it rattles a keeper (once, long ago, it even made Oliver Kahn make a schoolboy error, and more recently, I think it gave Milner his goal in the Sunderland match).  But, a bit more creativity might be needed, and I think Owen, like the others on the squad, need to get their chins up.  It's been a dismal run and a lot of upheavals in the last few years.  That can't be good for any of the players, as I admitted in my latter post.  I didn't mean to apply that only to Owen, which wasn't clear from my prior post.  

 

I'd like to see Newcastle get some consistency -- in management, in the squad, in performances.  Hopefully all three are soon on the way.  I'd love to see the two English winners of the Ballon d'Or help turn the club around.  

[fredbob]

People writing Owen off seriously need to have a word with themselves. Can anyone actually name me a striker similiar to Owen who would of thrived is the exact same situations?

 

Maybe Eto'o? Do people genuinely think that he would be effective in the team that Allardyce put out, having come back from such serious injury? After all, in a 3 year period we can only really judge Owen on this seasons offering?

 

In 3 years, Owen has only had a handful of games and has had to come back from career threatening injuries. He may of lost a yard of pace but he hasnt lost a single brain cell, i think it was Hoddle who said Owen isnt a natural finisher but an instictual finisher and that is a gift not many strikers have.

 

So far he has played 4 games for Keegan ( inc.Stoke) where the team has played carpet football and tried to put pressure on teams, and has stuck 2 away. I think its unfair to judge Owen in a team manged by Allardyce because Owen was never going to be succesful under Allardyces tactics.

 

I have absolutely no doubt that if Keegan gets the team playing with confidence and fluidity then Owen will be prolific again and i hope people who have written him off on the back of a handful of games under Allardyce eat there words with a side ordering of humble pie.

 

 

 

[sicsfingeredmong]

People writing Owen off seriously need to have a word with themselves. Can anyone actually name me a striker similiar to Owen who would of thrived is the exact same situations?

 

Maybe Eto'o? Do people genuinely think that he would be effective in the team that Allardyce put out, having come back from such serious injury? After all, in a 3 year period we can only really judge Owen on this seasons offering?

 

In 3 years, Owen has only had a handful of games and has had to come back from career threatening injuries. He may of lost a yard of pace but he hasnt lost a single brain cell, i think it was Hoddle who said Owen isnt a natural finisher but an instictual finisher and that is a gift not many strikers have.

 

So far he has played 4 games for Keegan ( inc.Stoke) where the team has played carpet football and tried to put pressure on teams, and has stuck 2 away. I think its unfair to judge Owen in a team manged by Allardyce because Owen was never going to be succesful under Allardyces tactics.

 

I have absolutely no doubt that if Keegan gets the team playing with confidence and fluidity then Owen will be prolific again and i hope people who have written him off on the back of a handful of games under Allardyce eat there words with a side ordering of humble pie.

 

 

 

 

Agree with just about everything written there. The sections placed in bold summarise Owen's situation perfectly.

[gazza ladra]

@fredbob,

 

Here's hoping you are right.

[Nobody]

Yet to make my mind up on Owen. He's looked woeful this season, but like fredbob said, it's not really fair to write him off all things considering. He will need to start produce on a more regular basis now though, he should, for some time now, be back to full fitness after his latest injury and he can't hide behind crap formations any more.

[Guest Brazilianbob]

Nah, i'm not 100% with Toon Taylor, but i'm edging toward that side of the spectrum. Not only has he been s**** infront of goal, but he seems to have lost this instinct or whatever it was he had. I won't criticise him for his goal at the weekend, that was a very well taken header and quite encouraging because it was good movement, but that's just about the first i've seen of it this season. Well, atleast in his most recent run of games.

 

As i said in another thread the other day, i'm sick to death of him blindly, aimlessly running straight at the keeper whenever one of our wingers makes it into the box. On several occassions, all we're asking for is one of our strikers to drop off, and have the ball laid back to him. Smith hasn't got a clue but you'd expect better with Owen; he's really doing very little in the box on the whole.

 

Of course, it doesn't help that our midfielders, more often than not, hardly seem like they want to actually score a goal, and are afraid of taking up a decent position in the box on such occassions.

 

Maybe that goal will spur him on, but we've said that after each goal that he's scored this season. I hope he plays well on Wednesday. Owen re-finding his form would be brilliant. Not massively optimistic though; he looks painfully slow nowadays.

 

How

Nah, i'm not 100% with Toon Taylor, but i'm edging toward that side of the spectrum. Not only has he been s**** infront of goal, but he seems to have lost this instinct or whatever it was he had. I won't criticise him for his goal at the weekend, that was a very well taken header and quite encouraging because it was good movement, but that's just about the first i've seen of it this season. Well, atleast in his most recent run of games.

 

As i said in another thread the other day, i'm sick to death of him blindly, aimlessly running straight at the keeper whenever one of our wingers makes it into the box. On several occassions, all we're asking for is one of our strikers to drop off, and have the ball laid back to him. Smith hasn't got a clue but you'd expect better with Owen; he's really doing very little in the box on the whole.

 

Of course, it doesn't help that our midfielders, more often than not, hardly seem like they want to actually score a goal, and are afraid of taking up a decent position in the box on such occassions.

 

Maybe that goal will spur him on, but we've said that after each goal that he's scored this season. I hope he plays well on Wednesday. Owen re-finding his form would be brilliant. Not massively optimistic though; he looks painfully slow nowadays.

 

How you can say you are sick of him running straight at the oppo keeper is a mystery to me.  Where else is the ball likely to end up when a decent cross comes in, and by a decent cross, I mean one that avoids the defenders!  Thats right, it ends up with the keeper coming for the ball and any striker worth his salt knows that 9 times out of ten, the best chance of scoring is getting in front of the keeper as he comes out.  As long as he keeps on doing what he knows is right, the goals will come again.

[Filflop1]

Owens work rate since KK has come in has been really good, if he does not get the right supply he wont score simple as........

 

Martins needs to grow a brain or he will never be "Top Class"

[Skirge]

He has upped his game under KK that stands out a mile, I think he is getting fitter and sharper and as long as he stays as interested as he looks now then he will be fine..

[Yorkie]

Brazilianbob, that's the point really. The defenders are unavoidable if he runs into a position where he's got two between him and the incoming ball, aswell as the keeper. It's all he's doing at the moment, the fluffed chance against Boro aside.

[Big Geordie]

I reckon Owen has definitely lost 2-3 yards of pace., but that shouldn't affect his ability as a finisher. His sharpness infront of goal will improve the more games he plays. I can see him becoming something of an Inzaghi type of striker, as he's never been blessed with great pace. Just sits on the shoulder of the last man and waits for his opportunity.

[Guest]

Anelka, Bent & Johnson have all scored bucket loads for struggling teams.

 

the service is poor but he's had some chances that he should have scored.

 

How many top class strikers are as dependant on "service" as Owen.

 

Anelka, Bent & Johnson haven't spent the best part of 2 years out with serious injuries. Even Shearer when he came back from his major injury in the 97-98 scored something like 2 league goals in 18 games. If Owen can stay fit, I think next season we'll see a totally different animal.

[Cronky]

None of our strikers are completely convincing, but we need to get away from the idea that Owen is an automatic choice and it's only a matter of time before the goals go flying in. He's changed completely from being a striker that was blindingly quick to one who's now quite slow. His old faults - one-footed and a poor first touch - are still there (albeit with a bit of improvement) and he should be competing for his place like the rest.

 

I agree with Johnnypd. If we were better than the opposition most weeks then we'd be creating lots of chances and he'd score a lot more. The trouble is we're not better than the opposition most weeks and we're having to scrap. You have to question what Owen is offering us in that situation.

[merlin]

Owens work rate since KK has come in has been really good, if he does not get the right supply he wont score simple as........

 

Martins needs to grow a brain or he will never be "Top Class"

 

Got it in one...