James Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I completely disagree with your last two posts like James. How you can say Dyer created the space for them I just cannot undertsand. Those runs he made, would scatter opposing defenders. Players would be left for dead, and be drawn out positionally. Think of the number of times the ball would suddenly find its way out to Robert or Solano, in plenty of space in the final third from which there was plenty of time to give Shearer a nice delivery. This was often thanks to Dyer's industry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I always thought Dyer was quite a limited player. His strengths were there but still limited. If Dyer was limited, then the players that we currently have could only be described using very politically incorrect words. Name me his skills and talents then, he was fast could short pass and on occasion put a decent through ball. He was no world beater by any stretch, he could have been far better if he wasn't a complete dick head, you look at him now and he looks total s****. He was the quickest dribbler on the ball I have seen at this club. He knew when to keep hold of the ball and let it go, and his short passes found players who had the better delivery. He would run further on the pitch than anyone else. He would harry the opposing midfielder all game, which helped Speed sweep it all up in midfield He could deliver an excellent low cross if he got to the byline Now can you say that about any of our current bunch. The reality is that Dyer was starting to look limited for a top club with genuine trophy ambitions. That is still a million light years from where we are now. Sounds more like a Keith Gillespie description to me. The Kieron Dyer I know was; - Unwilling to play wherever the manager asked him - A constant liability off the pitch - Could only pass a ball 10 yards never much further - Couldn't tackle - Couldn't shoot very well - Couldn't cross very well - Pacey - Could run around like a headless chicken - Could scare defences if his team mates played well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 hezas dyer is the one i remember. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I completely disagree with your last two posts like James. How you can say Dyer created the space for them I just cannot undertsand. Those runs he made, would scatter opposing defenders. Players would be left for dead, and be drawn out positionally. Think of the number of times the ball would suddenly find its way out to Robert or Solano, in plenty of space in the final third from which there was plenty of time to give Shearer a nice delivery. This was often thanks to Dyer's industry. See I personally think it was down to the rest of the team dragging defenders into the right areas and taking them out of the game with one incisive pass that created the space and opportunities for Dyer and the team as a whole. I guess it's just a matter of opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I always thought Dyer was quite a limited player. His strengths were there but still limited. If Dyer was limited, then the players that we currently have could only be described using very politically incorrect words. Name me his skills and talents then, he was fast could short pass and on occasion put a decent through ball. He was no world beater by any stretch, he could have been far better if he wasn't a complete dick head, you look at him now and he looks total s****. He was the quickest dribbler on the ball I have seen at this club. He knew when to keep hold of the ball and let it go, and his short passes found players who had the better delivery. He would run further on the pitch than anyone else. He would harry the opposing midfielder all game, which helped Speed sweep it all up in midfield He could deliver an excellent low cross if he got to the byline Now can you say that about any of our current bunch. The reality is that Dyer was starting to look limited for a top club with genuine trophy ambitions. That is still a million light years from where we are now. Would he run further? He had good physicality and seemed naturally fit, but his work rate was iffy. I can't remember him being a brilliant hassler either. His low cross was good, but I think the thing about short passing is like saying Duff's good because he passes short a lot, he rarely drove at people unless it was on the counter like at Southampton in the Cup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I always thought Dyer was quite a limited player. His strengths were there but still limited. If Dyer was limited, then the players that we currently have could only be described using very politically incorrect words. Name me his skills and talents then, he was fast could short pass and on occasion put a decent through ball. He was no world beater by any stretch, he could have been far better if he wasn't a complete dick head, you look at him now and he looks total s****. He was the quickest dribbler on the ball I have seen at this club. He knew when to keep hold of the ball and let it go, and his short passes found players who had the better delivery. He would run further on the pitch than anyone else. He would harry the opposing midfielder all game, which helped Speed sweep it all up in midfield He could deliver an excellent low cross if he got to the byline Now can you say that about any of our current bunch. The reality is that Dyer was starting to look limited for a top club with genuine trophy ambitions. That is still a million light years from where we are now. Sounds more like a Keith Gillespie description to me. The Kieron Dyer I know was; - Unwilling to play wherever the manager asked him - A constant liability off the pitch - Could only pass a ball 10 yards never much further - Couldn't tackle - Couldn't shoot very well - Couldn't cross very well - Pacey - Could run around like a headless chicken - Could scare defences if his team mates played well. Those first two points of yours pretty much sum up what you think of Dyer the person, and I personally think that that kind of thing makes people ovely critical of him. Robson never cared much about player personalities if they delivered on the pitch, and the fact that Robson always picked Dyer is for me further evidence of Dyer's ability within the team in my opnion.. I'll end my side of the argument there though, as thats all I've got to say for now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I always thought Dyer was quite a limited player. His strengths were there but still limited. If Dyer was limited, then the players that we currently have could only be described using very politically incorrect words. Name me his skills and talents then, he was fast could short pass and on occasion put a decent through ball. He was no world beater by any stretch, he could have been far better if he wasn't a complete dick head, you look at him now and he looks total s****. He was the quickest dribbler on the ball I have seen at this club. He knew when to keep hold of the ball and let it go, and his short passes found players who had the better delivery. He would run further on the pitch than anyone else. He would harry the opposing midfielder all game, which helped Speed sweep it all up in midfield He could deliver an excellent low cross if he got to the byline Now can you say that about any of our current bunch. The reality is that Dyer was starting to look limited for a top club with genuine trophy ambitions. That is still a million light years from where we are now. Would he run further? He had good physicality and seemed naturally fit, but his work rate was iffy. I can't remember him being a brilliant hassler either. His low cross was good, but I think the thing about short passing is like saying Duff's good because he passes short a lot, he rarely drove at people unless it was on the counter like at Southampton in the Cup. He did lack concentrarion in the defensive third, but the stats if i remember right usually backed up that claim, and I dont think the hassling was as blatant because he couldn't tackle, but he could close space down really well, which would allow Speed to tuck in and nick the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Dyer was an excellent ball winner Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I always thought Dyer was quite a limited player. His strengths were there but still limited. If Dyer was limited, then the players that we currently have could only be described using very politically incorrect words. Name me his skills and talents then, he was fast could short pass and on occasion put a decent through ball. He was no world beater by any stretch, he could have been far better if he wasn't a complete dick head, you look at him now and he looks total s****. He was the quickest dribbler on the ball I have seen at this club. He knew when to keep hold of the ball and let it go, and his short passes found players who had the better delivery. He would run further on the pitch than anyone else. He would harry the opposing midfielder all game, which helped Speed sweep it all up in midfield He could deliver an excellent low cross if he got to the byline Now can you say that about any of our current bunch. The reality is that Dyer was starting to look limited for a top club with genuine trophy ambitions. That is still a million light years from where we are now. Would he run further? He had good physicality and seemed naturally fit, but his work rate was iffy. I can't remember him being a brilliant hassler either. His low cross was good, but I think the thing about short passing is like saying Duff's good because he passes short a lot, he rarely drove at people unless it was on the counter like at Southampton in the Cup. He did lack concentrarion in the defensive third, but the stats if i remember right usually backed up that claim, and I dont think the hassling was as blatant because he couldn't tackle, but he could close space down really well, which would allow Speed to tuck in and nick the ball. Each to their own I will admit I may be bias as he was a cretin of a human being while he was here. He had the potential to be great or at least a top player but he pissed it up thinking he was the finished article. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skryp2nit3 Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 What Dyer adds to the team is exactly what we lack imo. Its so painfully obvious it ain't even an argument. Pace, dribbling, ability to run and drive at defenders, good off the ball running, good ball retention and brilliant at creating space. Probably would score more goals than any of the cretins currently occupying our midfield too. To be totally honest, a fit Kieron Dyer from 01-04 was miles better than all our midfielders currently, be it in the centre of the park or on either wings. Shame about his injuries and attitude though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Robson's team was greater than the sum of its parts. Each player had a purpose and added to the qualities of those around them. Bellamy was a better player with Shearer, Shearer likewise with Bellamy. Robert and Solano were two different types of wide man who kept the opposition on their toes (see also Ginola, D and Gillespie (K) You can go through the squad of the early 2000's and very few of the players would be world beaters on their own, but put together with a plan and a system and they were magic. I've no doubt that Martins would look a better player in Robson's team, similarly I doubt that Bellamy would have the same impact in todays version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I always thought Dyer was quite a limited player. His strengths were there but still limited. If Dyer was limited, then the players that we currently have could only be described using very politically incorrect words. I remember Dyer used to come in for enormous stick on this site before he left and I used to make the same point as you, without him we'd lose any dynamic movement. Well today look where we are and what do we lack? Martins falls into a similar category. Not the cleverest player, but so far ahead of the rest of the dross assembled here as our squad, it seems pointless even having this debate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I always thought Dyer was quite a limited player. His strengths were there but still limited. If Dyer was limited, then the players that we currently have could only be described using very politically incorrect words. I remember Dyer used to come in for enormous stick on this site before he left and I used to make the same point as you, without him we'd lose any dynamic movement. Well today look where we are and what do we lack? Martins falls into a similar category. Not the cleverest player, but so far ahead of the rest of the dross assembled here as our squad, it seems pointless even having this debate. martins movement is atrocious. players with far less raw speed get themselves into better positions more often. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I always thought Dyer was quite a limited player. His strengths were there but still limited. If Dyer was limited, then the players that we currently have could only be described using very politically incorrect words. I remember Dyer used to come in for enormous stick on this site before he left and I used to make the same point as you, without him we'd lose any dynamic movement. Well today look where we are and what do we lack? Martins falls into a similar category. Not the cleverest player, but so far ahead of the rest of the dross assembled here as our squad, it seems pointless even having this debate. martins movement is atrocious. players with far less raw speed get themselves into better positions more often. I was shocked to see him make a run behind the defenders against fulham, must be one of the first times it's happened this season (hit the post chance). Maybe Al has had a word with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I always thought Dyer was quite a limited player. His strengths were there but still limited. If Dyer was limited, then the players that we currently have could only be described using very politically incorrect words. I remember Dyer used to come in for enormous stick on this site before he left and I used to make the same point as you, without him we'd lose any dynamic movement. Well today look where we are and what do we lack? Martins falls into a similar category. Not the cleverest player, but so far ahead of the rest of the dross assembled here as our squad, it seems pointless even having this debate. martins movement is atrocious. players with far less raw speed get themselves into better positions more often. I was shocked to see him make a run behind the defenders against fulham, must be one of the first times it's happened this season (hit the post chance). Maybe Al has had a word with him. a player with his speed should be playing off the centre half and pulling to the gap between centre half and full back,instead he drops far too deep so his speed is nullified. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I always thought Dyer was quite a limited player. His strengths were there but still limited. If Dyer was limited, then the players that we currently have could only be described using very politically incorrect words. I remember Dyer used to come in for enormous stick on this site before he left and I used to make the same point as you, without him we'd lose any dynamic movement. Well today look where we are and what do we lack? Martins falls into a similar category. Not the cleverest player, but so far ahead of the rest of the dross assembled here as our squad, it seems pointless even having this debate. martins movement is atrocious. players with far less raw speed get themselves into better positions more often. Martins movement isn't the cleverest, I think I acknowledged that, but he does actually move. This is in stark contrast to about 70% of our squad which is widely regarded as lacking "legs". I don't want to use the term legless because I'm sure a few of them are well practiced at that as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I don't get why people say Martins is quick. He might be able to beat players in a running race, but when the ball comes close to Martins, the game slows down dramatically. When was the last time anyone saw him do this when both players started from the same position Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Kieron Dyer was a worse player than Oba though... No he wasn't, we just had really high expectations at the time and he was always injured. And thats the truth right there. A player like dyer in this current side would be seen as a legend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alankhaw Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Dyer linked really well with Nobby and Bellamy so I think it's unfair to say he wasn't productive. Find two players in our current team who can gel as well as he did Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Dyer linked really well with Nobby and Bellamy so I think it's unfair to say he wasn't productive. Find two players in our current team who can gel as well as he did Great point. He had an almost telepathic understanding with Solano but this was usually over-looked by the haters because Dyer wasn't liked for non-football reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I don't get why people say Martins is quick. He might be able to beat players in a running race, but when the ball comes close to Martins, the game slows down dramatically. When was the last time anyone saw him do this when both players started from the same position He's playing hampered by a groin injury according to the club. Do you really expect him to explode from the blocks if that is the case? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Christ. Let's not re-write history. Dyer did almost nothing for this club. He frequently went missing in matches and only ever lived up to his hype in maybe one or two games per season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I don't get why people say Martins is quick. He might be able to beat players in a running race, but when the ball comes close to Martins, the game slows down dramatically. When was the last time anyone saw him do this when both players started from the same position He's playing hampered by a groin injury according to the club. Do you really expect him to explode from the blocks if that is the case? I didnt give any reason to suggest i was only talking about Martins speed post-injury. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alankhaw Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Christ. Let's not re-write history. Dyer did almost nothing for this club. He frequently went missing in matches and only ever lived up to his hype in maybe one or two games per season. I think he has done more for this club than almost 90% of our current players and his work rate alone is something that our current crop lacks. Sure he was part of the bling brigade and crashed a few cars but he actually gave a shit when he was on the field. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I don't get why people say Martins is quick. He might be able to beat players in a running race, but when the ball comes close to Martins, the game slows down dramatically. When was the last time anyone saw him do this when both players started from the same position He's playing hampered by a groin injury according to the club. Do you really expect him to explode from the blocks if that is the case? He hasn't used pace for about a year though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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