Get it into your thick skulls

[dcmk]

'All the players are crap' is just a cry of despair, not a rational statement.

 

Obviously we're not scoring goals, and I think there are two problems here.

 

The first problem is a lack of pace in the side, so we can't hit teams on the break. The build up tends to be too slow and defences can set themselves. We can play the two players with genuine pace - Zoggy and Martins - but the trouble is they aren't too strong on the technical side and don't read the game well. It's questionable whether they improve things.

 

The second and more solveable problem surrounds Owen. Keegan, along with many fans, have got the idea that Owen is still a great striker and all we need to do is provide him with more chances. The old 'service' line of argument. Trouble is Owen has to play off a target man, and so that more or less dictates that we have to play an orthodox 4-4-2, very reliant on crosses, a bit predictable and not much being created down the middle.

 

It's pretty obvious that strategy isn't working, and Keegan has to find the nerve and the imagination to try something different. We still need to play with a striker who can hold the ball up (Smith, Viduka, Carroll, Shola - you can make out a case for any of them), but should try partnering them with a creative player who can link with the midfield - Duff or Emre would be good choices, but possibly Milner as well.

 

Do a Capello, in other words, but I can't see it happening. In making Owen the captain, Keegan seems to have set his stall out.

 

 

 

There are other factors though.  That make it nearly impossible to drop Owen.

 

To Ashley, Owen is Newcastles most marketable asset.  Won't like it, Keegan won't want to upset the boss so early on.

Owen is England's darling, negative press attention not what we need right now.

Owen is still a top player.  Top players you should keep happy.

[Cronky]

'All the players are crap' is just a cry of despair, not a rational statement.

 

Obviously we're not scoring goals, and I think there are two problems here.

 

The first problem is a lack of pace in the side, so we can't hit teams on the break. The build up tends to be too slow and defences can set themselves. We can play the two players with genuine pace - Zoggy and Martins - but the trouble is they aren't too strong on the technical side and don't read the game well. It's questionable whether they improve things.

 

The second and more solveable problem surrounds Owen. Keegan, along with many fans, have got the idea that Owen is still a great striker and all we need to do is provide him with more chances. The old 'service' line of argument. Trouble is Owen has to play off a target man, and so that more or less dictates that we have to play an orthodox 4-4-2, very reliant on crosses, a bit predictable and not much being created down the middle.

 

It's pretty obvious that strategy isn't working, and Keegan has to find the nerve and the imagination to try something different. We still need to play with a striker who can hold the ball up (Smith, Viduka, Carroll, Shola - you can make out a case for any of them), but should try partnering them with a creative player who can link with the midfield - Duff or Emre would be good choices, but possibly Milner as well.

 

Do a Capello, in other words, but I can't see it happening. In making Owen the captain, Keegan seems to have set his stall out.

 

 

 

There are other factors though.  That make it nearly impossible to drop Owen.

 

To Ashley, Owen is Newcastles most marketable asset.  Won't like it, Keegan won't want to upset the boss so early on.

Owen is England's darling, negative press attention not what we need right now.

Owen is still a top player.  Top players you should keep happy.

 

I'd agree that the negative press attention would be a problem, and it would put pressure on the other players. But we're playing a losing game and we have to change it.

 

I don't think Ashley would be a problem. And, sadly, Owen isn't a top player any more.

[Guest Phil K]

What I want is for him to stop persevering with the same failures.

 

And do what, replace them with the other failures. Our whole team is made up of failures, players who have done f*** all redeeming for our club with the exception of Given who has regrettably but nailed on eventually succumbed to the shiteness level that surrounds him and has done for years. Aye, lets replace those s**** players with more s**** players.

 

What about some of the kids ?

Could they do worse ?

And how do you tell if replacing failures with others would fail or - maybe even - SUCCEED ?

BY TRYING IT

[Thespence]

What about some of the kids ?

Could they do worse ?

And how do you tell if replacing failures with others would fail or - maybe even - SUCCEED ?

BY TRYING IT

 

Yes, they get tonked most weeks when they play for resevers or the Acadmeny. There are no standout players below the first team.

[Karjala]

Everyone seems desperate for Oba and Zoggy, and while I agree, especially with Martins for the utterly useless Smith, they have both had crap seasons for whatever reason.

 

Just like our home fix vs Fulham, Reading n mackems are not guarenteed points, neither are these to bring us victories.

 

Our squad is shit, we will have got off lightly if we stay up and need major changes in the summer. Having said that we just need a break of luck.

 

[Guest TheKingOfNewcastle]

 

I didn't want him here either, although he's better than most we were linked with, and now that he's here I'm loving it, even if the football is still shite, or rather the results.

 

What bit are you loving?

[Wullie]

Everyone seems desperate for Oba and Zoggy, and while I agree, especially with Martins for the utterly useless Smith, they have both had crap seasons for whatever reason.

 

Just like our home fix vs Fulham, Reading n mackems are not guarenteed points, neither are these to bring us victories.

 

Our squad is shit, we will have got off lightly if we stay up and need major changes in the summer. Having said that we just need a break of luck.

 

Apart from Viduka against Boro, it took until October for us to score a goal that didn't involve either Charlie or Martins. That's with Charlie playing at LB for the majority of the season, before and after and Oba being fucked about in midfield by Allardyce since. The pair of them are quality and need to play.

[KaKa]

Everyone seems desperate for Oba and Zoggy, and while I agree, especially with Martins for the utterly useless Smith, they have both had crap seasons for whatever reason.

 

Just like our home fix vs Fulham, Reading n mackems are not guarenteed points, neither are these to bring us victories.

 

Our squad is s***, we will have got off lightly if we stay up and need major changes in the summer. Having said that we just need a break of luck.

 

Apart from Viduka against Boro, it took until October for us to score a goal that didn't involve either Charlie or Martins. That's with Charlie playing at LB for the majority of the season, before and after and Oba being f***** about in midfield by Allardyce since. The pair of them are quality and need to play.

 

Anyone who doesn't see this is just deceiving themselves.

 

You only have to look back at the types of goals these guys score. They have the ability to do things no one else in our team can. Look at Martins goal against Bolton or even the one against Man City for goodness sake! Zoggy's against Boro?!

 

We are so predictable right now and we have no scoring ability in the team. Say what you want about Martins and Zoggy but at the end of the day they aren't afraid to shoot!!!

 

Duff the dilly dally man will never shoot on time and Owen will only shoot from two yards out. God have mercy! How anyone can argue against Martins and Zoggy in the team is beyond me.

 

 

[Guest optimistic nit]

Spot on.

 

Cheers Fat Fred for Souness, Roeder and Allardyce.

 

allardyce, like dalgleish, was a good decision that unfortunately didn't work out. roeder and souness aye,but i wasn't all too dissapointed with sam at the time so i'm not going to criticise his appointment now, and i think we'd have more points now if he wasn't sacked.

[La Parka]

Spot on.

 

Cheers Fat Fred for Souness, Roeder and Allardyce.

 

allardyce, like dalgleish, was a good decision that unfortunately didn't work out. roeder and souness aye,but i wasn't all too dissapointed with sam at the time so i'm not going to criticise his appointment now, and i think we'd have more points now if he wasn't sacked.

 

I agree.

[Happy Face]

Spot on.

 

Cheers Fat Fred for Souness, Roeder and Allardyce.

 

allardyce, like dalgleish, was a good decision that unfortunately didn't work out. roeder and souness aye,but i wasn't all too dissapointed with sam at the time so i'm not going to criticise his appointment now, and i think we'd have more points now if he wasn't sacked.

 

I agree.

 

Which games would we have got more points from?

[La Parka]

Spot on.

 

Cheers Fat Fred for Souness, Roeder and Allardyce.

 

allardyce, like dalgleish, was a good decision that unfortunately didn't work out. roeder and souness aye,but i wasn't all too dissapointed with sam at the time so i'm not going to criticise his appointment now, and i think we'd have more points now if he wasn't sacked.

 

I agree.

 

Which games would we have got more points from?

 

We can speculate all we want but I think it is hard to say, however the issue is due to the timing of the sacking, and the disruption it caused. I feel we could have strengthened in the window, and without the disruption we could have been in a slightly better position.

 

I am not blaming keegan for 90% of our current situation, my main problem is with the timing, or even if Sam's sacking was necessary at that point in time (and a sacking at the end of the season wasn't more realistic). Sure we played terrible football, but I think Sam had enough in him to keep us up and about 10th. 

[Happy Face]

Spot on.

 

Cheers Fat Fred for Souness, Roeder and Allardyce.

 

allardyce, like dalgleish, was a good decision that unfortunately didn't work out. roeder and souness aye,but i wasn't all too dissapointed with sam at the time so i'm not going to criticise his appointment now, and i think we'd have more points now if he wasn't sacked.

 

I agree.

 

Which games would we have got more points from?

 

We can speculate all we want but I think it is hard to say, however the issue is due to the timing of the sacking, and the disruption it caused. I feel we could have strengthened in the window, and without the disruption we could have been in a slightly better position.

 

I am not blaming keegan for 90% of our current situation, my main problem is with the timing, or even if Sam's sacking was necessary at that point in time (and a sacking at the end of the season wasn't more realistic). Sure we played terrible football, but I think Sam had enough in him to keep us up and about 10th. 

 

So that's none then. 

[La Parka]

Spot on.

 

Cheers Fat Fred for Souness, Roeder and Allardyce.

 

allardyce, like dalgleish, was a good decision that unfortunately didn't work out. roeder and souness aye,but i wasn't all too dissapointed with sam at the time so i'm not going to criticise his appointment now, and i think we'd have more points now if he wasn't sacked.

 

I agree.

 

Which games would we have got more points from?

 

We can speculate all we want but I think it is hard to say, however the issue is due to the timing of the sacking, and the disruption it caused. I feel we could have strengthened in the window, and without the disruption we could have been in a slightly better position.

 

I am not blaming keegan for 90% of our current situation, my main problem is with the timing, or even if Sam's sacking was necessary at that point in time (and a sacking at the end of the season wasn't more realistic). Sure we played terrible football, but I think Sam had enough in him to keep us up and about 10th. 

 

So that's none then. 

 

Politician's answer tbh.

[KaKa]

Everyone seems desperate for Oba and Zoggy, and while I agree, especially with Martins for the utterly useless Smith, they have both had crap seasons for whatever reason.

 

Just like our home fix vs Fulham, Reading n mackems are not guarenteed points, neither are these to bring us victories.

 

Our squad is s***, we will have got off lightly if we stay up and need major changes in the summer. Having said that we just need a break of luck.

 

Apart from Viduka against Boro, it took until October for us to score a goal that didn't involve either Charlie or Martins. That's with Charlie playing at LB for the majority of the season, before and after and Oba being f***** about in midfield by Allardyce since. The pair of them are quality and need to play.

 

Anyone who doesn't see this is just deceiving themselves.

 

You only have to look back at the types of goals these guys score. They have the ability to do things no one else in our team can. Look at Martins goal against Bolton or even the one against Man City for goodness sake! Zoggy's against Boro?!

 

We are so predictable right now and we have no scoring ability in the team. Say what you want about Martins and Zoggy but at the end of the day they aren't afraid to shoot!!!

 

Duff the dilly dally man will never shoot on time and Owen will only shoot from two yards out. God have mercy! How anyone can argue against Martins and Zoggy in the team is beyond me.

 

 

 

Martins proving why he should be in the team for every single minute of football remaining for our team this season. Say whatever crap you want about him, but he is a dangerous weapon to have on the pitch for our team.

 

Look at how his pace and agression forced both Riise and Skrtel into errors and directly led to goalscoring opportunities. I won't even mention the unbelievable 40 yard strike as I couldn't even begin to do it any justice. These things not only lead to goals but they lift the team.  This is who he is.

 

Owen on the other hand? He was waiting around for a perfect chance in the 6 yard box, so he could miss it again.

 

It's a bloody joke it really is. I'll let Keegan off for today's game, but I swear if he doesn't get it through his thick skull that Martins is our greatest goal scoring threat then I pity him.

 

 

 

 

[Rich]

Martins does have to play, like, and so does N'Zogbia.

[KaKa]

I found it funny how so many of our random long punts upfield actually started looking half decent because Martins actually had the pace to chase them down and pressure the defender tracking back. For this reason alone he has to be on the pitch, considering how many times we punt the ball upfield aimlessly. Owen just doesn't have the pace to make anything out of these situations.

 

I really can't believe anyone could ever justify not having Martins out on the pitch. It makes me sick.

 

I couldn't believe Keegan had the nerve to play Duff as a second striker today, while Martins sat on the bench! Are you freakin kidding me? Is he crazy?

 

He is definitely looking at names and past reputations right now, and that is quite unfortunate. Two from Duff, Smith and Butt, should be on the bench for Martins and Geremi. No doubt about it.

[Guest The Corner]

if keegan resigns amidst fans calling for his head - i would honestly quit supporting Newcastle.

 

The majority of match day going fans won't call for his head, they have far too much respect for him and rightly so. It's cretins on internet message boards, phone ins and textins that are the ones who haven't a clue. Thankfully a minority.

 

Preach

[Optimistic Nut]

if keegan resigns amidst fans calling for his head - i would honestly quit supporting Newcastle.

 

The majority of match day going fans won't call for his head, they have far too much respect for him and rightly so. It's cretins on internet message boards, phone ins and textins that are the ones who haven't a clue. Thankfully a minority.

 

Preach

 

I'd imagine there was a time towards the end of the 90s when a large proportion of Everton fans were thinking the same as those you mention about Kendall, however, there comes a point surely when you realise, well hang on, maybe this wasn't such a good idea. And if people aren't having doubts about his abilities, then they're the cretins tbh. It's one thing supporting him and giving him time, but there's far too many in here (HTT to name but one), who can't seem to see past the past.

[Optimistic Nut]

It doesn't matter who KK picks or which team plays, they have proved themselves unable to perform much less win games consistently over the course of years. They are all s****, the whole lot of them. This is a rotten team and 2 managers this season, good managers, have both failed to get them playing. What will it take for people to realise this and accept this? f****** relegation? It doesn't matter if Smith plays or not, his replacement is like for like. Barton the same. N'Zogbia or Duff? Enrique or N'Zogbia? Martins or Owen? They all in one way or another have serious flaws in their game or are simply not good enough. But aye, lets change the manager again...

 

The players we have, and squad, is better than the 2 clubs directly above us, and every one below us. We're a mid-table side at worst, somehow being dragged down thanks to a combination of two managers.

[Guest Brazilianbob]

It doesn't matter who KK picks or which team plays, they have proved themselves unable to perform much less win games consistently over the course of years. They are all s****, the whole lot of them. This is a rotten team and 2 managers this season, good managers, have both failed to get them playing. What will it take for people to realise this and accept this? f****** relegation? It doesn't matter if Smith plays or not, his replacement is like for like. Barton the same. N'Zogbia or Duff? Enrique or N'Zogbia? Martins or Owen? They all in one way or another have serious flaws in their game or are simply not good enough. But aye, lets change the manager again...

 

I agree. Sam should never have been sacked!

 

Bollocks!  He was and still is a joke of a manager with an ego the size of the town moor

[Guest Brazilianbob]

I found it funny how so many of our random long punts upfield actually started looking half decent because Martins actually had the pace to chase them down and pressure the defender tracking back. For this reason alone he has to be on the pitch, considering how many times we punt the ball upfield aimlessly. Owen just doesn't have the pace to make anything out of these situations.

 

I really can't believe anyone could ever justify not having Martins out on the pitch. It makes me sick.

 

I couldn't believe Keegan had the nerve to play Duff as a second striker today, while Martins sat on the bench! Are you freakin kidding me? Is he crazy?

 

He is definitely looking at names and past reputations right now, and that is quite unfortunate. Two from Duff, Smith and Butt, should be on the bench for Martins and Geremi. No doubt about it.

 

Its that tired old premise of football managers in relegation trouble.  Pick the experienced players who have been there got the t shirt etc who will have the experience to keep their heads up in difficult times, and that may well be true, but in our case that will only work if the heads are up in the first place.

[quayside]

It doesn't matter who KK picks or which team plays, they have proved themselves unable to perform much less win games consistently over the course of years. They are all s****, the whole lot of them. This is a rotten team and 2 managers this season, good managers, have both failed to get them playing. What will it take for people to realise this and accept this? f****** relegation? It doesn't matter if Smith plays or not, his replacement is like for like. Barton the same. N'Zogbia or Duff? Enrique or N'Zogbia? Martins or Owen? They all in one way or another have serious flaws in their game or are simply not good enough. But aye, lets change the manager again...

 

I agree. Sam should never have been sacked!

 

Bollocks!  He was and still is a joke of a manager with an ego the size of the town moor

 

 

I doubt whether anyone on here really thinks that Sam is/was a top class manager.

 

But the real issue is whether the decision to replace him in mid season with someone who is not obviously better was correct. And when I say not obviously better lets not forget we are talking about someone who has not managed for 3 years and whose only spell of real success ended 11 years ago. Unless they were confident of landing a replacement with a proven track record (see Spurs) the decision to sack him when they did was an unjustified risk imo.

[Cronky]

I found it funny how so many of our random long punts upfield actually started looking half decent because Martins actually had the pace to chase them down and pressure the defender tracking back. For this reason alone he has to be on the pitch, considering how many times we punt the ball upfield aimlessly. Owen just doesn't have the pace to make anything out of these situations.

 

I really can't believe anyone could ever justify not having Martins out on the pitch. It makes me sick.

 

I couldn't believe Keegan had the nerve to play Duff as a second striker today, while Martins sat on the bench! Are you freakin kidding me? Is he crazy?

 

He is definitely looking at names and past reputations right now, and that is quite unfortunate. Two from Duff, Smith and Butt, should be on the bench for Martins and Geremi. No doubt about it.

 

Its that tired old premise of football managers in relegation trouble.  Pick the experienced players who have been there got the t shirt etc who will have the experience to keep their heads up in difficult times, and that may well be true, but in our case that will only work if the heads are up in the first place.

 

We've probably got too many players who, either through age or past injury, are no longer at the peak of their careers. Whatever level of ability they may have as individuals, you can't afford to have too many in that category. In our squad, we have Viduka, Owen, Smith, Butt, Geremi, Carr, Duff and Beye. They're not all crap, but we need more balance.

 

What makes it worse, is that a lot of the alternatives, like Zoggy, Taylor and Martins, are still a bit raw.

 

 

[toon25]

 

But the real issue is whether the decision to replace him in mid season with someone who is not obviously better was correct. And when I say not obviously better lets not forget we are talking about someone who has not managed for 3 years and whose only spell of real success ended 11 years ago. Unless they were confident of landing a replacement with a proven track record (see Spurs) the decision to sack him when they did was an unjustified risk imo.

 

Bang on. I couldn't stand Sam, never liked him or the shitty football that he was trying to inculcate. It left us needing to take two steps back in order to move one step forward.

 

However, I was not in favour of KK's appointment, particularly at the time in which he was appointed. The poor bloke was thrown in right at the deep end with a squad low on confidence, high fan expectations (particularly due to the transfer window) and a tough set of fixtures. It was a huge risk and in my view was in no way an appointment that would improve the position of the club.

There is no room for sentiment in football and sadly Ashley and Mort have fallen victim to past glories over prudency