Dave Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Rich is about to give me a right beating here like. Been posting for ages. Oops, too slow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Rich is about to give me a right beating here like. Been posting for ages. Oops, too slow. Peace and love and all that man, we've just beat the real scum 4-1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Rich is about to give me a right beating here like. Been posting for ages. Oops, too slow. Peace and love and all that man, we've just beat the real scum 4-1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 The claws are out now like. I was there, you cheeky t***. I was merely commenting on the "disagreeing" bit. Of course they f****** float about man, but Ronaldo/Nanin are still wingers who play in the same areas, Tevez is still the main striker and Rooney still plays off the front man, the central midfielders still play in central midfield. The movement has been fantastic for years man, not just since Christmas - what a comment - but they still play with a formation. Are you telling me Alex Ferguson sends out his front six and says "just play anywhere lads, you'll be reet". He doesn't. They've got their positions, but they've also got a bit of a licence to roam if necessary, which they'll do more when things aren't working out. You'll rarely (if ever) see Ronaldo positioned down the middle from a goal-kick, having swapped with Tevez, will you? They've got their positions and they go from there, it's just that the system is so good it looks so disorganised when they're sweeping forward. I can't be arsed to go digging, but I'm fairly confident that Ferguson and Man Utd have a formation, a system and the players know their roles exactly, the front six don't all have a free role. I've watched them absolutely loads this season, in all competitions, because they play the best football in the league, I'm not basing all this on nowt. right then bit by bit watch how much ronaldo makes moves into the middle,yes you'll not see him throgh the middle from a goal kick but is he on the right or left ? ronaldo will switch side to side and roony tevz switch forward/deep and both pull wide. of course ferguson sends them out with a formation (did i say he didn't ?) but thir fluidity (like ours as the entertainers) means the players are clever footballers,moving,dragging the oppos away,moving into space. the comparison i'm trying to draw is man utd (defensivly solid,scholes through the middel ,then flux)and most other teams who if you listen to the radio you know whos got the ball purely by where it is ie until recently "newcastle attack on the right" meant it was milner..now it's not (i know milners out but you know what i mean) The last paragraph is what I'd hope for too from us, that's what I was trying to say. But this formation is still fairly rigid at the moment, Geremi sticks to the right, Barton sticks towards the left and Butt sits behind them two. Martins is the only one all over the place and Owen is working right up the centre (as I think Dave said earlier), Viduka is the fulcrum - but even he's been moving around far more than he had been under Allardyce. All signs are positive really, and I apologise for the tangent, as we should all just be enjoying this tonight - think I was just after a bit of a joust really, for whatever reason. If we play anything like Man Utd next season, then it should be brilliant to watch. I think I'd actually prefer to see us give this whacky formation a proper crack ahead of a "4-4-2 with two wingers who can cross, etc." in the modern Premiership, the flexibility it potentially offers is brilliant. Of course it won't work all the time though. basically i should have said nufc circa the entertainers...movement and all that. thats what i want and i think it would work in todays (rigid) game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 I've just made Madras submit in three separate threads. This has been the best day ever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I was about to make a thread on this, but seen this one. With 4-3-3 seemingly to be working excellant, what are we going to do if someone gets injured, eg. Viduka. And does Milner, N'Zogbia, Duff, Emre fit into Keegans plans ? Could they fit into this formation ? Or would the formation change if say Viduka got injured ? Would he put Smith in ? It's all very interesting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I've just made Madras submit in three separate threads. This has been the best day ever. submit ? as in "submit" posts or "give in" ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 submit ? as in "submit" posts or "give in" ? Just humour him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I was about to make a thread on this, but seen this one. With 4-3-3 seemingly to be working excellant, what are we going to do if someone gets injured, eg. Viduka. And does Milner, N'Zogbia, Duff, Emre fit into Keegans plans ? Could they fit into this formation ? Or would the formation change if say Viduka got injured ? Would he put Smith in ? It's all very interesting with us being safish i'd guess carroll would come in or go 4-4-2 or as you suggest even smiff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bobblyrage Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 For me the most important change is that we are now pro-active, the oppostition always has to consider what our 3 forwards are doing, previously with Smith and A N Other our opponents just havent had to worry about our forward play. In the last 2 games Owen, Viduka and Martins have all taken goals, Reading will always be asking themselves where and what moves these 3 are making. Allardyce had us always reacting to our opponents formations and players, always thinking about what they were doing, now we are foricng ourselves on our opponents and they are thinking about us. Interesting that Ramos sent out a 4-3-3, Keegan will obv have looked at Spurs players and tactics but still attempted to force his system on the game, it was Ramos who was on the back foot with his selection and Ramos ultimately failed to deal with us in a similiar way to how Allardyce failed to deal with countless sides we faced this year. The best teams in the Premiership are always the ones who force their style and system on the game, Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Allardyce never got this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 For me the most important change is that we are now pro-active, the oppostition always has to consider what our 3 forwards are doing, previously with Smith and A N Other our opponents just havent had to worry about our forward play. In the last 2 games Owen, Viduka and Martins have all taken goals, Reading will always be asking themselves where and what moves these 3 are making. Allardyce had us always reacting to our opponents formations and players, always thinking about what they were doing, now we are foricng ourselves on our opponents and they are thinking about us. Interesting that Ramos sent out a 4-3-3, Keegan will obv have looked at Spurs players and tactics but still attempted to force his system on the game, it was Ramos who was on the back foot with his selection and Ramos ultimately failed to deal with us in a similiar way to how Allardyce failed to deal with countless sides we faced this year. The best teams in the Premiership are always the ones who force their style and system on the game, Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Allardyce never got this. :clap: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Very true, you can only get limited success by setting out to break up the opposition and destroy the game. To really go places you need to have a style of your own and impose it on the opposition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Well said, bobblyrage. Even if you have a ridiculous name. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teepee Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 i agree bobbly - especially against teams that are not much better than us. a more cautious approach may, however, be required against the top 3-4 sides, but certainly not against the tottenhams and readins of this world... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 If only KK had some clue about tactics. I think the Spurs win has put that particular stick to bed for a while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 If only KK had some clue about tactics. I think the Spurs win has put that particular stick to bed for a while. As has been said before, tactics can be overstated, having good players is the most important thing. Even so, it's necessary to put players in positions which suit them, and Keegan has got it spot on with the current 4-3-3. It's not future-proof, but it allows Barton, Butt and Geremi to create a bit of an engine room without much pace. The use of Owen at the front of the midfield diamond has been a masterstroke though. Must have a few hacks scratching their heads re Keegan's tactical naievety Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Just a quick word about Martins ... I always thought he would be at his best in the role we currently use him in. With both Viduka and Owen on the pitch with him now, he is no longer relied upon as much to be our key finisher and so a lot of that burden has been lifted. He has been give a lot of freedom as far as his movement is concerned and can therefore just be his random and unpredictable self, and this gets the most out of him I believe. I am so happy Keegan stuck with the formation against Spurs. I'm sure the media were hoping we would get beat, so they could critisize Keegan's decision and claim he was tactically naive to play with three strikers against Spurs at home. However, it was the perfect decision and there is absolutely no reason to change anything, even if we are playing Man U. Our teams greatest strength is in our strikers right now, so put them out there. We sat back at the start of the season and tried to be tacticlly solid and tight and we were getting beat by the likes of Derby anyway! Brilliant stuff by Keegan and the boys. I can't stop smiling. I think I know why I'm such a fan of Martins too. It's because he dislikes Tottenham as much as I do. How many goals against them is it now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cfhpantera27 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 positives: eh.. we're winning!! duff and smith dont feature.. oba, viduka and owen all get on. negatives: only one i can think of is where would Milner and N'Zogbia fit in? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 The one would fit in at Spurs and the other would fit in at Villa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Martins took his goal brilliantly. That little move at the end was scintilating. nobody can doubt that. Loved his celebration - the flips and the very long "exhale" of emotions when he was yelling. you just know he was proud to get that goal....Was it just me? or did he want to pull the shirt off and run around a bit? but stopped knowing hed get a yellow? - excellent footballing brain...(just kidding ) Our attacking movements were at times brilliant... I thought Viduka's quick curler that Robinson saved was an excellent strike. Owen's goal was f'ng beautiful. Martins just diggin in and attacking O'Hara, staying honest finding Viduka who has a brilliant touch, and Owen's curler was special. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 We won't play 433 long term. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 We won't play 433 long term. What do you think Keegan will opt for then? Martins and Owen are performing so well in this setup. Owen is now our captian and his attitude and his demeanour show a newfound level of committment from him that is exciting. He is going nowhere. Ironically Owen is actually more of a goal threat in this setup as he has had so many more chances per game in his new position while being more of a complete player. Martins is also getting better every game under Keegan and I don't think it will be possible to let him go as he is proving to be a very valuable commodity indeed. I think we will still see a lot of this 4-3-3 again next season but we will also play a standard 4-4-2 I expect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 4-3-1-2 is what we play now with Owen as the 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 A lot of people are asking if it will work against better teams, but I wonder how much better it would be with a younger more athletic version of Viduka and younger better players in for Geremi and Butt. Certainly, some important decisions need to be made this summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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