Danny Guthrie signed from Liverpool on 4 year deal

[ElDiablo]

We've been shit for the last 4 years, it was a miracle we managed to get someone of Coloccini's class in in the first place. We're just not an attractive proposition anymore. It was always going to be tough to get in the good players needed all in one go, and it was in one go as KK's tactics and priorities are a million miles away from Allardyce's.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

The difference between a target and an expectation is important I reckon, 6th place is a good target for the club but I think the fans need to be patient if/when we don't reach it.

[fredbob]

People want to complain about the squad being thin but dont want to acknowledge that the first team has been the best in 4 years. Personally in terms of priority, id rather the first team was sorted before we squad built.

 

Either way one thing categorically isnt more imporant than the other so the wiegting in cirticsim should be equal.

 

We're 1 or 2 players away from being a top 6 first team but a little bit more from being a top 6 squad. When was the last time we could say that? where does the credit go for this?

 

 

We're not though as we don't have a manager competent enough to achieve this.

 

That doesnt change the fact that its a first team capable of finishing in the top 6. I dont think we have the squad to fininsh in the top6 but we definitely have the first team.

 

But it's a squad game we play in now. Or so we get told often enough.

 

How much investement is required to build a squad that is capable of going from 12th to 6th? And is that a reasonable expectation from the fans?

 

To jump from that position? I don't know many that expected top 6. I know people like myself who thought it was attainable as we had the right manager, but only if he was given the right backing by the board. And there's more to backing a manager than just throwing money at him btw.

 

I dont understand either the squad is or isnt good enough to get into the top6? I dont understan how people can use the strength of the squad as a criticsm agaisnt theboard yet openely acknowledge that its good enough to break the top 6. (the person in charge is completely irrelavnt as a gauge as to how good the squad is)

 

Either the squad is poor and incapable of getting a good position which counts agaisnt the board, or its good and is capable of doing well and so should count for the board.

[Tooj]

People want to complain about the squad being thin but dont want to acknowledge that the first team has been the best in 4 years. Personally in terms of priority, id rather the first team was sorted before we squad built.

 

Either way one thing categorically isnt more imporant than the other so the wiegting in cirticsim should be equal.

 

We're 1 or 2 players away from being a top 6 first team but a little bit more from being a top 6 squad. When was the last time we could say that? where does the credit go for this?

 

 

We're not though as we don't have a manager competent enough to achieve this.

 

That doesnt change the fact that its a first team capable of finishing in the top 6. I dont think we have the squad to fininsh in the top6 but we definitely have the first team.

 

But it's a squad game we play in now. Or so we get told often enough.

 

How much investement is required to build a squad that is capable of going from 12th to 6th? And is that a reasonable expectation from the fans?

 

To jump from that position? I don't know many that expected top 6. I know people like myself who thought it was attainable as we had the right manager, but only if he was given the right backing by the board. And there's more to backing a manager than just throwing money at him btw.

 

I dont understand either the squad is or isnt good enough to get into the top6? I dont understan how people can use the strength of the squad as a criticsm agaisnt theboard yet openely acknowledge that its good enough to break the top 6. (the person in charge is completely irrelavnt as a gauge as to how good the squad is)

 

Either the squad is poor and incapable of getting a good position which counts agaisnt the board, or its good and is capable of doing well and so should count for the board.

 

It's quite simply really, the squad wasn't good enough last season, but Keegan proved he could actually get them playing. Unlike his predecessor.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Good point fredbob, if the squad isn't good enough then the blame applicable to the manager must go down, if it is good enough then the regime should get some credit for assembling it.

[Tooj]

Good point fredbob, if the squad isn't good enough then the blame applicable to the manager must go down, if it is good enough then the regime should get some credit for assembling it.

 

So the poor squad is the reason for Kinnear's shocking tactics in some of the games he's managed?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Good point fredbob, if the squad isn't good enough then the blame applicable to the manager must go down, if it is good enough then the regime should get some credit for assembling it.

 

So the poor squad is the reason for Kinnear's shocking tactics in some of the games he's managed?

 

Nope, I didn't say that, I just said that the squad being weak/strong has to be taken into account.

[Tooj]

Good point fredbob, if the squad isn't good enough then the blame applicable to the manager must go down, if it is good enough then the regime should get some credit for assembling it.

 

So the poor squad is the reason for Kinnear's shocking tactics in some of the games he's managed?

 

Nope, I didn't say that, I just said that the squad being weak/strong has to be taken into account.

 

Of course it does, but a weak squad doesn't account for piss-poor decisions by the manager.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Good point fredbob, if the squad isn't good enough then the blame applicable to the manager must go down, if it is good enough then the regime should get some credit for assembling it.

 

So the poor squad is the reason for Kinnear's shocking tactics in some of the games he's managed?

 

Nope, I didn't say that, I just said that the squad being weak/strong has to be taken into account.

 

Of course it does, but a weak squad doesn't account for piss-poor decisions by the manager.

 

I agree!

[fredbob]

People want to complain about the squad being thin but dont want to acknowledge that the first team has been the best in 4 years. Personally in terms of priority, id rather the first team was sorted before we squad built.

 

Either way one thing categorically isnt more imporant than the other so the wiegting in cirticsim should be equal.

 

We're 1 or 2 players away from being a top 6 first team but a little bit more from being a top 6 squad. When was the last time we could say that? where does the credit go for this?

 

 

We're not though as we don't have a manager competent enough to achieve this.

 

That doesnt change the fact that its a first team capable of finishing in the top 6. I dont think we have the squad to fininsh in the top6 but we definitely have the first team.

 

But it's a squad game we play in now. Or so we get told often enough.

 

How much investement is required to build a squad that is capable of going from 12th to 6th? And is that a reasonable expectation from the fans?

 

To jump from that position? I don't know many that expected top 6. I know people like myself who thought it was attainable as we had the right manager, but only if he was given the right backing by the board. And there's more to backing a manager than just throwing money at him btw.

 

I dont understand either the squad is or isnt good enough to get into the top6? I dont understan how people can use the strength of the squad as a criticsm agaisnt theboard yet openely acknowledge that its good enough to break the top 6. (the person in charge is completely irrelavnt as a gauge as to how good the squad is)

 

Either the squad is poor and incapable of getting a good position which counts agaisnt the board, or its good and is capable of doing well and so should count for the board.

 

It's quite simply really, the squad wasn't good enough last season, but Keegan proved he could actually get them playing. Unlike his predecessor.

 

So your saying the quality of the squad is good enough for top 6 with a competent manager but not good enough for a top 6 finihs with a poor manager?

[Dokko]

People want to complain about the squad being thin but dont want to acknowledge that the first team has been the best in 4 years. Personally in terms of priority, id rather the first team was sorted before we squad built.

 

Either way one thing categorically isnt more imporant than the other so the wiegting in cirticsim should be equal.

 

We're 1 or 2 players away from being a top 6 first team but a little bit more from being a top 6 squad. When was the last time we could say that? where does the credit go for this?

 

 

We're not though as we don't have a manager competent enough to achieve this.

 

That doesnt change the fact that its a first team capable of finishing in the top 6. I dont think we have the squad to fininsh in the top6 but we definitely have the first team.

 

But it's a squad game we play in now. Or so we get told often enough.

 

How much investement is required to build a squad that is capable of going from 12th to 6th? And is that a reasonable expectation from the fans?

 

To jump from that position? I don't know many that expected top 6. I know people like myself who thought it was attainable as we had the right manager, but only if he was given the right backing by the board. And there's more to backing a manager than just throwing money at him btw.

 

I dont understand either the squad is or isnt good enough to get into the top6? I dont understan how people can use the strength of the squad as a criticsm agaisnt theboard yet openely acknowledge that its good enough to break the top 6. (the person in charge is completely irrelavnt as a gauge as to how good the squad is)

 

Either the squad is poor and incapable of getting a good position which counts agaisnt the board, or its good and is capable of doing well and so should count for the board.

 

It's quite simply really, the squad wasn't good enough last season, but Keegan proved he could actually get them playing. Unlike his predecessor.

 

So your saying the quality of the squad is good enough for top 6 with a competent manager but not good enough for a top 6 finihs with a poor manager?

 

It's that tight right now a good manager would have us top half looking at Europe, a great manager possibly holding that position.

 

But that's simply down to the league this year more than anything to do with us. I think were lucky to but rocking in such a rocky/mental year, it hasn't shown too bad this time round, other years i think people would be taking relegation more seriously.

 

Everything is up in the air this season, nothing is certain, even the two horse race has been broken along with the 4 CL spots for real this time, billionaire teams above relegation, while promoted teams such as no hopers Hull are 60% to securing their prem safety already.

 

It's madness right now, and with the current financial climate getting worse during the season being under way just adds more confusion and unusual circumstances.

 

 

[Dokko]

As for Guthrie, fuk me he's done well.

 

Called it wrong like many people, but he's stepped up his game since arriving, no one can deny that or judge it was going to happen.

[Pilko]

I always had a feeling he'd be 'solid' at worst. He looked good for Bolton, and he was keeping experienced players like McCann out of the team at times.

[joeyt]

Think people were so skeptical of him, purely because Liverpool sold him, so they won't have rated him

[fredbob]

As for Guthrie, fuk me he's done well.

 

Called it wrong like many people, but he's stepped up his game since arriving, no one can deny that or judge it was going to happen.

 

The thing thats gets me so optimistic about Guthrie is that hes such a simple player yet effective player, he doesnt have anything complicated or difficult in his game which means he'll rarely suffer from poor form.

[Guest Heneage]

Imagine if Gerrard had scored Guthries goal.

[Pilko]

To be honest, people weren't initially impressed for 2 main reasons:

 

1) As joey said above, Liverpool didn't play him much and were willing to let him go.

2) He wasn't a blockbuster signing, just a decent young player who will improve. Not what everyone really wanted.

[STM]

I like this lad, he has a brilliant ability to keep the ball. He needs to find himself as a player though i.e turn into a real playmaker or learn to play the holding role. No player should go through his career just being good at "keeping the ball". 

[Fatwax]

Imagine if Gerrard had scored Guthries goal.

 

People say this a lot of the time, but the difference is that Gerrard scores goals like this consistently. Any player can have moments of pure brilliance, but it's the quality players that do it on a consistent level, week in week out.

 

I look forward to seeing if Guthrie can maintain his form.

[Pilko]

Imagine if Gerrard had scored Guthries goal.

 

People say this a lot of the time, but the difference is that Gerrard scores goals like this consistently. Any player can have moments of pure brilliance, but it's the quality players that do it on a consistent level, week in week out.

 

I look forward to seeing if Guthrie can maintain his form.

 

Wow, Danny's just changed his MSN status:

 

"is pleased his manager has recognized his good form and hopes to play even better in the near future"

[Thespence]

He needs to find himself as a player though i.e turn into a real playmaker or learn to play the holding role.

 

Do players have to be one or the other? Can he not be a "central midfielder"

[Fatwax]

Imagine if Gerrard had scored Guthries goal.

 

People say this a lot of the time, but the difference is that Gerrard scores goals like this consistently. Any player can have moments of pure brilliance, but it's the quality players that do it on a consistent level, week in week out.

 

I look forward to seeing if Guthrie can maintain his form.

 

 

Wow, Danny's just changed his MSN status:

 

"is pleased his manager has recognized his good form and hopes to play even better in the near future"

 

 

[STM]

He needs to find himself as a player though i.e turn into a real playmaker or learn to play the holding role.

 

Do players have to be one or the other? Can he not be a "central midfielder"

 

It's all about labelling. Of course those two positions are classed as "centre midfielders" but in reality they have specific roles within their teams. Look at the best teams in the world, there is very rarely room for an old fashioned "centre midfielder" nowadays players have a defined role within the team. Most managers prefer their players this way.

[1878]

He's doing a lot better for you than I expected so far.

 

He was very average from what I saw at Bolton but is looking decent this season.

[johnnypd]

technically he is excellent, first touch, maneouvering around players, making space and short passing are all top, top class. he thrives in those quick games when he is getting closed down from all sides with players spinning off him, and in that sense he reminds me of Emre. But he does need to develop as a player as, though these aspects of his game are good, he doesnt really do anything with them. He lacks real vision, both passing out to the wings, threading a through-ball to a striker or wipping in a cross so his good passing isnt fully utilised. He doesnt have the pace or drive to dribble which means his touch is not taken advantage of and he doesnt really go for shots (apart from yesterday). if he can improve these aspects of his play over the next 3 or so years we'll have a really good player on our hands, someone who can dictate the tempo of a game by spreading the ball about who can also chip in with creativity in the final third, but he's not there yet.

 

as for defensive weaknesses - where do you start? Off the ball he is poor, his reading of the game is nothing special, his tackling is shit, and he is lightweight so lacks the ability to physically challenge others. most importantly for me he also lacks an engine - you wont see him boss a game and pop up everywhere winning the ball. not that important if he is paired with a physically imposing midfield destroyer but we don't have one atm.