But we're owned by a billionaire!

[Colos Short and Curlies]

We made a profit in 06-07. We're heading the way of making a massive profit in 08-09

 

Get in!  Just wonder where this profit will end up going though.  In his pocket, on the squad or on the balance sheet to make the club look more of an attractive prospect to others.

 

On the squad and on the balance sheet pretty much equate to the same thing dontcha think?

 

Anyway, I haven't got the figures in fornt of me, but any reported profit will be BEFORE any sales and purchases of players. So say we made a profit of £10m and spent net £11m (as I say I aint got the figures here) then we have reinvested all and more of the revenue during the year

 

Seriously? Seems like a pretty big omission from a profit & loss statement to me.

 

Mind you, Mike says we never actually paid for any players before he came anyway, we just gave the selling clubs promise notes to be collected when the club was sold on to a generous (and handsome) Billionaire.

 

Its really not, its a standard way of reporting things in football. The numbers are in there if you go down far enough but 99 times out of 100 the figures released to the press will read:

 

Profit/Loss before amortisation of transfer fees (almost but not quite the cash profit/loss for the year)

Profit/Loss after amortisation of transfer fees (the paper profit for the year)

 

This years transfer spend does not hit the p&L directly, its hidden in the ammortisation and spread over the length of the initial contract of the player

[Dave]

I'm saying that that is what a lot of people on here are suggesting the club should do, try to be successful on the cheap. Buying Coloccini went against that as he would be the "simply spending lots of money guarantees nothing" kind of player you're talking about. I think we should be buying more players like him (as well as youngsters), and 1 or 2 such players per season will get us nowhere.

 

I want us to try to be successful by being sensible, not simply 'on the cheap'. I suppose we just disagree what is sensible.

 

How many £10m+ first teamers should we buying each season? 4 or 5? Replacing half the team every year doesn't sound very feasible to me.

[Slugsy]

Not to jump into an argument but I think we made a loss of £328k before amortisation of players in 06-07, after amortisation, we made a loss of £26m - no accounts have been filed as yet for 07-08 and I am quite impressed with your thoughts on profits for 08-09, given that financial year has only been 2 months in.

 

To be honest the best way of looking at spend in a year for the club as a whole is to take profit/loss before ammortisation then add the net spend/income on players in that year.

 

Agreed

[mrmojorisin75]

How many £10m+ first teamers should we buying each season? 4 or 5? Replacing half the team every year doesn't sound very feasible to me.

 

no easy answer to that is there?  and 10m guarantees nothing as you're fond of pointing out, BUT let's try this:

 

"wherever there is a gaping hole in the team & squad a club the size of NUFC should be doing everything in their power to fill that gap with a quality player regardless (within reason) of cost"

 

how does that do you dave?

 

so for us this season i'd say we needed:

 

CB - check

CM - nope

FW - nope

 

don't think 3 top quality players is a big ask myself, nor did you at the start of the summer

[Guest sicko2ndbest]

A large outlay at the start bares fruit at the finish.

 

If we were to spend 50m in the way we have spent the 16m i think we have a great chance of 5th or maybe higher. If we are successful, players will come to NUFC on lower wages as they want to come rather than having to be bribed with large wages. Liverpool often undercut other clubs by 20k a week and still get their man

 

The following seasons will just need top up transfers 1-2 good signings for priority positions. If we finish bottom half again then if wise thought his job was tough this year he will have a shock next year trying to attract players

 

We need another 3

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Not to jump into an argument but I think we made a loss of £328k before amortisation of players in 06-07, after amortisation, we made a loss of £26m - no accounts have been filed as yet for 07-08 and I am quite impressed with your thoughts on profits for 08-09, given that financial year has only been 2 months in.

 

To be honest the best way of looking at spend in a year for the club as a whole is to take profit/loss before ammortisation then add the net spend/income on players in that year.

 

Agreed

 

Thinking about it, it should actually be feasible to give a strong forecasted proft for the year now. The revenue streams are pretty fixed (only prize money will vary) and cost structures will be fixed also

[Skirge]

YES  I fully expected us to go spend silly, match Chelski all the way, I suppose that was never really going to happen, but of course we believed all the media hype about Keegan getting 80 to 100 mill to spend blah blah blah.

 

I do still feel like he is not spending as he could though, I understand that he does not want to be held to ransom over players just because he is a billionaire but on the other hand if he wants new players he will have to pay the money, in fee's and wages..

[Dokko]

A large outlay at the start bares fruit at the finish.

 

If we were to spend 50m in the way we have spent the 16m i think we have a great chance of 5th or maybe higher. If we are successful, players will come to NUFC on lower wages as they want to come rather than having to be bribed with large wages.

 

The following seasons will just need top up transfers 1-2 good signings for priority positions. If we finish bottom half again then if wise thought his job was tough this year he will have a shock next year trying to attract players

 

We need another 3

 

Its crazy how many do not understand this.

 

 

[mrmojorisin75]

A large outlay at the start bares fruit at the finish.

 

If we were to spend 50m in the way we have spent the 16m i think we have a great chance of 5th or maybe higher. If we are successful, players will come to NUFC on lower wages as they want to come rather than having to be bribed with large wages.

 

The following seasons will just need top up transfers 1-2 good signings for priority positions. If we finish bottom half again then if wise thought his job was tough this year he will have a shock next year trying to attract players

 

We need another 3

 

Its crazy how many do not understand this.

 

 

 

prepare yourselves for the "old board attack", it's coming...

[Ericz]

How many £10m+ first teamers should we buying each season? 4 or 5? Replacing half the team every year doesn't sound very feasible to me.

 

no easy answer to that is there?  and 10m guarantees nothing as you're fond of pointing out, BUT let's try this:

 

"wherever there is a gaping hole in the team & squad a club the size of NUFC should be doing everything in their power to fill that gap with a quality player regardless (within reason) of cost"

 

how does that do you dave?

 

so for us this season i'd say we needed:

 

CB - check

CM - nope

FW - nope

 

don't think 3 top quality players is a big ask myself, nor did you at the start of the summer

 

That depends on your definition of quality?

 

Before we get Guthrie and Jonas in, people say that we need 3 top players. After we get Guthrie and Jonas in, people still say we need 3 top players.

 

Human beings are never satisfied aren't they? Or is it just our fans?

 

Let us not forget that there are people who are strong advocates for a new LB, a new RW, a new AM etc etc.... gosh! Whose views to follow!

 

I KNOW I KNOW! FOLLOW THEM ALL, ASHLEY!

 

People, remember we were flirting with relegation just some time ago? Surprised how fast ppl forget about it.

 

Lower expectation = more satisfaction in the end.

 

 

[Dave]

How many £10m+ first teamers should we buying each season? 4 or 5? Replacing half the team every year doesn't sound very feasible to me.

 

no easy answer to that is there?  and 10m guarantees nothing as you're fond of pointing out, BUT let's try this:

 

"wherever there is a gaping hole in the team & squad a club the size of NUFC should be doing everything in their power to fill that gap with a quality player regardless (within reason) of cost"

 

how does that do you dave?

 

so for us this season i'd say we needed:

 

CB - check

CM - nope

FW - nope

 

don't think 3 top quality players is a big ask myself, nor did you at the start of the summer

 

I've always maintained that those players need bringing in (though the forward can only be an upcoming player imo given who we have on the books still). If we don't get them I will be criticising the club just like everyone else.

 

For some reason there's always a sense of black and white (ha) on this forum, never any in-between. You can't think a player is poor without being accused of being unreasonable, you can't praise a player without being accused of overrating them, and you can't give Ashley a chance without being accused of wanting to do things on the cheap and accepting mediocrity.

[Spider Jerusalem]

How many £10m+ first teamers should we buying each season? 4 or 5? Replacing half the team every year doesn't sound very feasible to me.

 

no easy answer to that is there?  and 10m guarantees nothing as you're fond of pointing out, BUT let's try this:

 

"wherever there is a gaping hole in the team & squad a club the size of NUFC should be doing everything in their power to fill that gap with a quality player regardless (within reason) of cost"

 

how does that do you dave?

 

so for us this season i'd say we needed:

 

CB - check

CM - nope

FW - nope

 

don't think 3 top quality players is a big ask myself, nor did you at the start of the summer

 

 

Exactly - The bare minimum transfer requirements for this club have not been met and do not look likely to be met either, even though they have had six months to get thier ideads together and two months to get the players in.  The surface of this squad has been scratched two matches into the season and what did we get - a line up against Coventry with no recognised strikers starting the match and a bunch of kids on the bench.  If the shit really had hit the fan on Tuesday night who would we have turned to (Nile Ranger comments will be severely punished  ).

[Dave]

A large outlay at the start bares fruit at the finish.

 

If we were to spend 50m in the way we have spent the 16m i think we have a great chance of 5th or maybe higher. If we are successful, players will come to NUFC on lower wages as they want to come rather than having to be bribed with large wages.

 

The following seasons will just need top up transfers 1-2 good signings for priority positions. If we finish bottom half again then if wise thought his job was tough this year he will have a shock next year trying to attract players

 

We need another 3

 

Its crazy how many do not understand this.

 

 

 

prepare yourselves for the "old board attack", it's coming...

 

 

That Souness did well didn't he?

[Ericz]

A large outlay at the start bares fruit at the finish.

 

If we were to spend 50m in the way we have spent the 16m i think we have a great chance of 5th or maybe higher. If we are successful, players will come to NUFC on lower wages as they want to come rather than having to be bribed with large wages.

 

The following seasons will just need top up transfers 1-2 good signings for priority positions. If we finish bottom half again then if wise thought his job was tough this year he will have a shock next year trying to attract players

 

We need another 3

 

Its crazy how many do not understand this.

 

 

 

prepare yourselves for the "old board attack", it's coming...

 

 

That Souness did well didn't he?

 

We have forgotten about Leeds United ! Didn't they have a big fruity harvest in the end? - lol -

[Guest sicko2ndbest]

A large outlay at the start bares fruit at the finish.

 

If we were to spend 50m in the way we have spent the 16m i think we have a great chance of 5th or maybe higher. If we are successful, players will come to NUFC on lower wages as they want to come rather than having to be bribed with large wages.

 

The following seasons will just need top up transfers 1-2 good signings for priority positions. If we finish bottom half again then if wise thought his job was tough this year he will have a shock next year trying to attract players

 

We need another 3

 

Its crazy how many do not understand this.

 

 

 

prepare yourselves for the "old board attack", it's coming...

 

 

That Souness did well didn't he?

 

Read it properly Dave!

[mrmojorisin75]

How many £10m+ first teamers should we buying each season? 4 or 5? Replacing half the team every year doesn't sound very feasible to me.

 

no easy answer to that is there?  and 10m guarantees nothing as you're fond of pointing out, BUT let's try this:

 

"wherever there is a gaping hole in the team & squad a club the size of NUFC should be doing everything in their power to fill that gap with a quality player regardless (within reason) of cost"

 

how does that do you dave?

 

so for us this season i'd say we needed:

 

CB - check

CM - nope

FW - nope

 

don't think 3 top quality players is a big ask myself, nor did you at the start of the summer

 

I've always maintained that those players need bringing in (though the forward can only be an upcoming player imo given who we have on the books still). If we don't get them I will be criticising the club just like everyone else.

 

For some reason there's always a sense of black and white (ha) on this forum, never any in-between. You can't think a player is poor without being accused of being unreasonable, you can't praise a player without being accused of overrating them, and you can't give Ashley a chance without being accused of wanting to do things on the cheap and accepting mediocrity.

 

alternatively you can't point out things aren't so rosy without being called a moaner!!

 

lets say you're right about the forward being young (i don't agree due to the suspect fitness of viduka and owen, and the uselessness of everyone else) then we're still a good creative CM away from what i would consider an absolute bare minimum this summer, agreed?

 

and i mean an ABSOLUTE bare minimum of top quality players

 

we've got 4 days

 

oh and i agree about forum extremes by the way, nature of the internet

 

 

[Slugsy]

How many £10m+ first teamers should we buying each season? 4 or 5? Replacing half the team every year doesn't sound very feasible to me.

 

no easy answer to that is there?  and 10m guarantees nothing as you're fond of pointing out, BUT let's try this:

 

"wherever there is a gaping hole in the team & squad a club the size of NUFC should be doing everything in their power to fill that gap with a quality player regardless (within reason) of cost"

 

how does that do you dave?

 

so for us this season i'd say we needed:

 

CB - check

CM - nope

FW - nope

 

don't think 3 top quality players is a big ask myself, nor did you at the start of the summer

 

I've always maintained that those players need bringing in (though the forward can only be an upcoming player imo given who we have on the books still). If we don't get them I will be criticising the club just like everyone else.

 

For some reason there's always a sense of black and white (ha) on this forum, never any in-between. You can't think a player is poor without being accused of being unreasonable, you can't praise a player without being accused of overrating them, and you can't give Ashley a chance without being accused of wanting to do things on the cheap and accepting mediocrity.

 

 

So true

 

[Dave]

How many £10m+ first teamers should we buying each season? 4 or 5? Replacing half the team every year doesn't sound very feasible to me.

 

no easy answer to that is there?  and 10m guarantees nothing as you're fond of pointing out, BUT let's try this:

 

"wherever there is a gaping hole in the team & squad a club the size of NUFC should be doing everything in their power to fill that gap with a quality player regardless (within reason) of cost"

 

how does that do you dave?

 

so for us this season i'd say we needed:

 

CB - check

CM - nope

FW - nope

 

don't think 3 top quality players is a big ask myself, nor did you at the start of the summer

 

I've always maintained that those players need bringing in (though the forward can only be an upcoming player imo given who we have on the books still). If we don't get them I will be criticising the club just like everyone else.

 

For some reason there's always a sense of black and white (ha) on this forum, never any in-between. You can't think a player is poor without being accused of being unreasonable, you can't praise a player without being accused of overrating them, and you can't give Ashley a chance without being accused of wanting to do things on the cheap and accepting mediocrity.

 

alternatively you can't point out things aren't so rosy without being called a moaner!!

 

lets say you're right about the forward being young (i don't agree due to the suspect fitness of viduka and owen, and the uselessness of everyone else) then we're still a good creative CM away from what i would consider an absolute bare minimum this summer, agreed?

 

and i mean an ABSOLUTE bare minimum of top quality players

 

we've got 4 days

 

oh and i agree about forum extremes by the way, nature of the internet

 

 

 

I knew someone would say that.

 

Everyone's entitled to a moan, I didn't think sacking Allardyce was a great idea at the time, and the ticking situation has been an absolute farce. If we don't get the two/three first-team players in that we need they'll have fucked up there too, yes.

 

I just think some of the expectations at this club are often a little too much.

[Nobody]

re the huge turnover thing ..... you also have to take into account the cost of generating that turnover.

 

The obvious example is the signing of expensive players that create a buzz, help put bums on seats and sell shirts, all major contributors to turnover.

 

Hasn't Ashley discovered that the cost of generating that turnover was way too much and the club was sitting on a debt mountain, which he has now paid off?

 

I reckon he'll play it similar to Lerner - make the money available when the manager needs it but improve the business efficiency of the club and get it to contribute as much as it can, without necessarily having to be self sufficient. 

 

I'd take that over Shinawatra (who will leave Man City in a perilous situation) or the Icelandic bloke at West Ham (who went mental last year and has now got bored with the whole affair) any day of the week.

 

These are extremely rich men looking for a way to have a bit of big boys fun, even if it does cost them a lot of money. What they're obviously not going to do is irresponsibly blow a large chunk of their wealth in doing so.

 

There will never, ever be another Abrahmovich. I think people are slowly starting to understand that.

 

 

Top post.

[mrmojorisin75]

How many £10m+ first teamers should we buying each season? 4 or 5? Replacing half the team every year doesn't sound very feasible to me.

 

no easy answer to that is there?  and 10m guarantees nothing as you're fond of pointing out, BUT let's try this:

 

"wherever there is a gaping hole in the team & squad a club the size of NUFC should be doing everything in their power to fill that gap with a quality player regardless (within reason) of cost"

 

how does that do you dave?

 

so for us this season i'd say we needed:

 

CB - check

CM - nope

FW - nope

 

don't think 3 top quality players is a big ask myself, nor did you at the start of the summer

 

I've always maintained that those players need bringing in (though the forward can only be an upcoming player imo given who we have on the books still). If we don't get them I will be criticising the club just like everyone else.

 

For some reason there's always a sense of black and white (ha) on this forum, never any in-between. You can't think a player is poor without being accused of being unreasonable, you can't praise a player without being accused of overrating them, and you can't give Ashley a chance without being accused of wanting to do things on the cheap and accepting mediocrity.

 

alternatively you can't point out things aren't so rosy without being called a moaner!!

 

lets say you're right about the forward being young (i don't agree due to the suspect fitness of viduka and owen, and the uselessness of everyone else) then we're still a good creative CM away from what i would consider an absolute bare minimum this summer, agreed?

 

and i mean an ABSOLUTE bare minimum of top quality players

 

we've got 4 days

 

oh and i agree about forum extremes by the way, nature of the internet

 

 

 

I knew someone would say that.

 

Everyone's entitled to a moan, I didn't think sacking Allardyce was a great idea at the time, and the ticking situation has been an absolute farce. If we don't get the two/three first-team players in that we need they'll have fucked up there too, yes.

 

i'm still hopeful at the moment, the milner thing has changed nothing in my eyes

 

as we've discussed at length it's smith and duff that piss me off more than anything

[David Icke - Son of God]

I expected more commitment than he's shown in terms of finance, i wasn't expecting RA style, but something decent to jolt us forward quickly, then to let the club build on that by itself.

 

As it is, he's done quite a shit job so far and it won't get any better from his recent comments. Wouldn't be arsed to see him leave for a proper billionaire.

 

 

 

What exactly do you regard as a shit job? Buying Guthrie, Coloccini, Bassong and Jonas? Negotiating £8m for Dyer, £4m for Shola and possibly £10m for Milner? Seems pretty competent work to me so far.

 

 

 

Where did we finish last season?

 

 

 

12th.

 

Where did we finish the season before? 13th.

 

That's an improvement, bitch.

[9]

Changing the subject a little but still about club finance, i heard from a bloke on sat who was at a meeting with Ashley etc about trying to get corporate box users to renew and he was told there was a contact/agreement which still had years to run from the Shepherd days that was to pay Sir John Hall £350k per premier league home game from ticket sales in the SJH stand...surely this can not be true....can it!

[merlin]

I guess the other thing that irks me is that as fans we should know more than anyone else that simply spending lots of money guarantees nothing. We have to build to get to where we want to be, and build on solid foundations.

 

We have our best ever manager in, who knows exactly what is required to do that, why can't we give him time to work his magic? Why does it all have to be here and now, this summer?

 

Ashley's comment about KK being very specific about the kind of player we buy is very heartening for me.

 

You are overlooking the fact that KK himself does not seem to be happy with the whole situation ; he hasn't exactly fallen over himself to back the way the club is being run right now, with comments about being in the dark over signings etc.

You can't have it both ways - yes, we should support the manager, but if he himself is not happy, then you can hardly blame the fans for having doubts.

 

My view is that Ashley has done a great job in clearing the club's debts, and in trying to get a lean, professional set-up in place ; where I have some doubts are in what looks to be an over-parsimonious transfer policy. I don't think he should be attempting to replicate Abramovitch, but I DO think the reins should have been loosened to the degree that KK could have most of the players he wanted IN PLACE by the time pre-season training started.

 

I also have doubts about whether KK DOES have the final say in either Transfer Policy or Players' Contracts. Both of these areas are potential minefields for future stability at the club and I think there MUST be some truth in the rumours that KK is only at the club because of financial problems with the Soccer School in Scotland - I know from past experience that he isn't one to accept things 'Not like it said in the Brochure !'

[David Icke - Son of God]

I guess the other thing that irks me is that as fans we should know more than anyone else that simply spending lots of money guarantees nothing. We have to build to get to where we want to be, and build on solid foundations.

 

We have our best ever manager in, who knows exactly what is required to do that, why can't we give him time to work his magic? Why does it all have to be here and now, this summer?

 

Ashley's comment about KK being very specific about the kind of player we buy is very heartening for me.

 

You are overlooking the fact that KK himself does not seem to be happy with the whole situation ; he hasn't exactly fallen over himself to back the way the club is being run right now, with comments about being in the dark over signings etc.

You can't have it both ways - yes, we should support the manager, but if he himself is not happy, then you can hardly blame the fans for having doubts.

 

My view is that Ashley has done a great job in clearing the club's debts, and in trying to get a lean, professional set-up in place ; where I have some doubts are in what looks to be an over-parsimonious transfer policy. I don't think he should be attempting to replicate Abramovitch, but I DO think the reins should have been loosened to the degree that KK could have most of the players he wanted IN PLACE by the time pre-season training started.

 

I also have doubts about whether KK DOES have the final say in either Transfer Policy or Players' Contracts. Both of these areas are potential minefields for future stability at the club and I think there MUST be some truth in the rumours that KK is only at the club because of financial problems with the Soccer School in Scotland - I know from past experience that he isn't one to accept things 'Not like it said in the Brochure !'

 

Has Keegan said several times since he came back that "Mike Ashley could be the best owner Newcastle has ever had?" Not the words of someone who is being undermined at every turn by the board, I think you'll agree.

 

 

[Dave]