Shepherd Legacy

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Talk of the extra debt he had to pay off, theres no mention of the extra tv income that has just come in this season? at least another 30m, plus whatever we got for our position in league last season. top got 50m, bottom 30, so were are somewhere in middle.

 

 

I think that would have come under the 'front loaded sponsorship money etc' bit of the statement

[Guest East Stander]

I'm rather tired of Ashley playing the 'Oh poor me, I had to pay off loads of debt I didn't know about' line when he openly admits he didn't check the books in the first place.

 

Play with fire and you're going to get burnt, Mike.

 

I still think it's mental that he didn't know the full financial picture when he bought the club. I mean, he's obviously rich but chucking around 100s of millions without doing your homework doesn't seem to make sense.

 

It seems as if the Halls managed to stitch him up if we are to believe Ashley had to make a quick decision when making his offer. In all the accounts/reports etc I had read, I wasn't aware of the securitisation having to be paid off in full within 30 days of a takeover. However, full diligence would have shown this up.

[Guest gggg]

Talk of the extra debt he had to pay off, theres no mention of the extra tv income that has just come in this season? at least another 30m, plus whatever we got for our position in league last season. top got 50m, bottom 30, so were are somewhere in middle.

 

 

I think that would have come under the 'front loaded sponsorship money etc' bit of the statement

 

There's no way we spent the TV money a full year before we got it and knew where we would finish, unless Fat Fred could see the future.

[NE5]

You do know what you've done, don't you?

 

I think he does, yes.

 

you've re-appeared too

 

Happy you have what you wished for ?

 

 

[NE5]

His defence is you have to be in debt to compete and all the top clubs are.

 

Which is fair enough. The problem comes when you're escalating debt and nowhere near competing.

 

laughable that macbeth has re-surfaced after all this time. He's another version of macca-888 who still insists that Keegan is the most tactically naive manager ever for "losing a 12 point lead".......even worse is he defended Souness, who presumably along with the others had 13 point leads....or 1 point leads and kept them.

 

You couldn't make it up.

 

Re macbeth, we will see how soopa Mikes flirtation with prudency hits the gates, especially if nothing changes and we are relegated as a result.

 

How sad that people re-appear at times like this, anybody would think they are happy the club is even more in the shit with a threadbare squad of players than it was previously.

 

 

[NE5]

A truly great effort at "competing" for Hearts, on a annual income of £10m ....

 

http://www.football-finances.org.uk/hearts/debt2.5.gif

 

haha, who gives a shit about Scottish rubbish  mackems.gif

[Consortium of one]

Frank Gilmour is my hero.

 

Just saying...

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Talk of the extra debt he had to pay off, theres no mention of the extra tv income that has just come in this season? at least another 30m, plus whatever we got for our position in league last season. top got 50m, bottom 30, so were are somewhere in middle.

 

 

I think that would have come under the 'front loaded sponsorship money etc' bit of the statement

 

There's no way we spent the TV money a full year before we got it and knew where we would finish, unless Fat Fred could see the future.

 

He would have had a rough idea and budgetted accordingly.

 

In the same way my company budgets its expenditure based on expected sales up to 15 months in advance

[Guest gggg]

Talk of the extra debt he had to pay off, theres no mention of the extra tv income that has just come in this season? at least another 30m, plus whatever we got for our position in league last season. top got 50m, bottom 30, so were are somewhere in middle.

 

 

I think that would have come under the 'front loaded sponsorship money etc' bit of the statement

 

There's no way we spent the TV money a full year before we got it and knew where we would finish, unless Fat Fred could see the future.

 

He would have had a rough idea and budgetted accordingly.

 

In the same way my company budgets its expenditure based on expected sales up to 15 months in advance

 

Where did the money go then?  It would be easy enough to check if we took out a £40 million loan in 06/07 in the accounts.

[NE5]

standby for a macbeth yawnfest, and mick saying how pleased his dearest wish has came true ie we now have an owner/chairman who doesn't embarrass the poor lad anymore .........  along with the fact that  "He wants what we want and goes to the games for the same reason as we do, he wants us to win for the pleasure that brings.  He wants to build the club up and put everything in place to make sure we can maintain a high position once we reach it."

 

[Guest elbee909]

standby for an NE5 yawnfest

[NE5]

standby for an NE5 yawnfest

 

no, it wasn't me who started this thread.

 

It's quite amazing that you still haven't seen the blatantly obvious, after the events of the last 2 weeks.

 

 

[Guest elbee909]

standby for an NE5 yawnfest

 

no, it wasn't me who started this thread.

 

It's quite amazing that you still haven't seen the blatantly obvious, after the events of the last 2 weeks.

 

 

What's amazing to me - well, not really - is that because I think your same-old, same-old posts are a bit yawnsome, you assume I think the opposite of everything you think.  Well, I don't, but your crowing doesn't do you any favours.  I don't necessarily disagree with everything you ever say, but you keep on attributing that to me if it helps you sleep at night.

[Syrette]

even worse is he defended Souness, who presumably along with the others had 13 point leads....

 

Hold on - you defended Souness as well during his reign if I recall correctly, calling him a "top boss".

 

Bit unfair to criticise others for that when you did it yourself.

[afar]

So is anyone up for a old board/new board debate ?

 

What will happen when/if Ashley sells up, will we have an old board/older board/new board debate ?

[macbeth]

Freddie Shepherd has claimed that he left Newcastle United on a sound financial footing.

 

This is absolutely not true and cannot be allowed to stand as a statement of truth.

 

In the last year that Shepherd and Hall were in control the club lost £32.9m - over £600,000 per week.

 

In the 11 years the club was a PLC the highest retained profit the club made was £215,000.

 

When Shepherd and Hall left Newcastle United they were each paid two years pay, so over £1m each, to go. They had written their own contracts to make that happen. Since 1996 Shepherd has been paid £5.9m by Newcastle United, Douglas Hall £5.4m.

 

In the last 4 years Shepherd and Hall were in charge the wages went up 10% each year, while the team performance nose-dived. The club were left with a set of players on long, and lucrative contracts, a situation the club is still trying to recover from.

 

During the same period, money coming in to the club remained roughly the same, while the Sky money increased dramatically. Shepherd and Hall did nothing to improve the income, just allowed Sky money to bail out their incompetence.

 

In 2005 when the club has run out of financing options and wished to buy Michael Owen the sponsorship money from Northern Rock was taken early. Rather than getting a quarter of the money each year the club took it all at once. This has meant that in subsequent seasons no new cash has been available from sponsors. Worse was the fact that they borrowed the money from Northern Rock at 8.5% interest !!

 

While Shepherd and Hall were in control the club paid out £32.4m in dividends, while at the same time making total losses of £114m.

 

The debts for the ground extension committed the club to a payment of roughly £6.2m each year until 2016. If the club had not paid anything in dividends then the ground could now have been paid for, leaving no debts for Ashley, or any other subsequent owner to have to pay off.

 

When Shepherd handed over control the club had £198,000 in the bank. There was an overdraft of nearly £11m. There was also £19m in season ticket money saved away. This had to cover paying a wage bill of around £60m for the next year

 

All the figures quoted here are from Newcastle United club accounts issued  by the club, or registered with Companies House.

 

++++++++

 

Ashley having to pay off the debts left to him cost him money, but it saved the club about £7m a year in interest payments. So the £32.9m loss that Shepherd's managed in his last year in "control" of the club would be reduced by that £7m. So lets say £26m on-going losses. Lets say he somehow reduced the wage bill, although I am unsure whether he could really have managed that before this summer. Lets be kind and say he reduced it by £5m, so a straight improvement of £5m, reducing losses to £21m.

 

Maybe this figure is the £20m subsidy Ashley mentioned. He bought a club that was set up so that even when he cut out huge amounts of costs he was still going to have to put in £20m to stop it going bust.

 

Ashley was unbelievably naive to not do any checking at all before he bought us. That he didn't know of the debt is amazing, that he didn't know we had spent the whole 4 year sponsorship deal on in 2005, and were actually now paying Northern Rock rather than them us,  was slack. That he didn't know we had wages that went up on average over 10% every year for 11 years  was stupid. That his predessor boasts about all this is sad.

 

Ashley has made a fool of himself by not completely understanding the mess he inherited. His only redeeming feature is that he stopped the club having to go into administration, and likely relegation from the points deduction.

 

 

 

 

[Guest elbee909]

Well, you can prove anything with facts, can't you?

[NE5]

standby for an NE5 yawnfest

 

no, it wasn't me who started this thread.

 

It's quite amazing that you still haven't seen the blatantly obvious, after the events of the last 2 weeks.

 

 

What's amazing to me - well, not really - is that because I think your same-old, same-old posts are a bit yawnsome, you assume I think the opposite of everything you think.  Well, I don't, but your crowing doesn't do you any favours.  I don't necessarily disagree with everything you ever say, but you keep on attributing that to me if it helps you sleep at night.

 

well, thats what I said about macbeth, who has suddenly re-surfaced after months away. Is that any different, or is it because you agree with him and not me - assuming you STILL don't get the idea yet.

 

 

[johnnypd]

if you remove player trading and amortisation, ie look at the sheer numbers going in and out to run a club, it was basically breaking even. even the money we owe on past transfers is a short-term expense that will all but vanish soon. with the £6m or so saved on loan repayments and the increase in tv money of £18m we're in decent financial health. also as shepherd says, the majority of the paid off debt was held against the consecutive stadium improvements of the shepherd-hall era, plus land owned in and around SJP. this land has since remained undeveloped (leazes carpark, old barrack road shop site, gallowgate carpark) but shepherd had a plan to develop it which wouldve given us a further cash injection and maybe even contributed towards further stadium expansion.

 

im not sure whether ashley was caught unawares about the debt needing to be repaid in a certain time, even i knew about that.

 

the one thing id criticse shepherd for was receiving sponsorship money in a lump sum rather than as staggered payments. not so much because it reduces the cash flow later on (in some ways it is better to get it in one go in order to invest it into the club) but because, with increased tv coverage, sponsorship values have subsequently risen as the rock deal isn't really great for us. look at spurs deal with mansion, their previous deal was a fraction of ours yet now theirs is far, far more lucrative.

[alpal78]

standby for an NE5 yawnfest

 

no, it wasn't me who started this thread.

 

It's quite amazing that you still haven't seen the blatantly obvious, after the events of the last 2 weeks.

 

 

What's amazing to me - well, not really - is that because I think your same-old, same-old posts are a bit yawnsome, you assume I think the opposite of everything you think.  Well, I don't, but your crowing doesn't do you any favours.  I don't necessarily disagree with everything you ever say, but you keep on attributing that to me if it helps you sleep at night.

 

well, thats what I said about macbeth, who has suddenly re-surfaced after months away. Is that any different, or is it because you agree with him and not me - assuming you STILL don't get the idea yet.

 

 

 

Ok everyone, fasten your seatbelts, this is gonna be more exciting than sluts having a go in a mud wrestling match 

[BottledDog]

Freddie Shepherd has claimed that he left Newcastle United on a sound financial footing.

 

This is absolutely not true and cannot be allowed to stand as a statement of truth.

 

In the last year that Shepherd and Hall were in control the club lost £32.9m - over £600,000 per week.

 

In the 11 years the club was a PLC the highest retained profit the club made was £215,000.

 

When Shepherd and Hall left Newcastle United they were each paid two years pay, so over £1m each, to go. They had written their own contracts to make that happen. Since 1996 Shepherd has been paid £5.9m by Newcastle United, Douglas Hall £5.4m.

 

In the last 4 years Shepherd and Hall were in charge the wages went up 10% each year, while the team performance nose-dived. The club were left with a set of players on long, and lucrative contracts, a situation the club is still trying to recover from.

 

During the same period, money coming in to the club remained roughly the same, while the Sky money increased dramatically. Shepherd and Hall did nothing to improve the income, just allowed Sky money to bail out their incompetence.

 

In 2005 when the club has run out of financing options and wished to buy Michael Owen the sponsorship money from Northern Rock was taken early. Rather than getting a quarter of the money each year the club took it all at once. This has meant that in subsequent seasons no new cash has been available from sponsors. Worse was the fact that they borrowed the money from Northern Rock at 8.5% interest !!

 

While Shepherd and Hall were in control the club paid out £32.4m in dividends, while at the same time making total losses of £114m.

 

The debts for the ground extension committed the club to a payment of roughly £6.2m each year until 2016. If the club had not paid anything in dividends then the ground could now have been paid for, leaving no debts for Ashley, or any other subsequent owner to have to pay off.

 

When Shepherd handed over control the club had £198,000 in the bank. There was an overdraft of nearly £11m. There was also £19m in season ticket money saved away. This had to cover paying a wage bill of around £60m for the next year

 

All the figures quoted here are from Newcastle United club accounts issued  by the club, or registered with Companies House.

 

++++++++

 

Ashley having to pay off the debts left to him cost him money, but it saved the club about £7m a year in interest payments. So the £32.9m loss that Shepherd's managed in his last year in "control" of the club would be reduced by that £7m. So lets say £26m on-going losses. Lets say he somehow reduced the wage bill, although I am unsure whether he could really have managed that before this summer. Lets be kind and say he reduced it by £5m, so a straight improvement of £5m, reducing losses to £21m.

 

Maybe this figure is the £20m subsidy Ashley mentioned. He bought a club that was set up so that even when he cut out huge amounts of costs he was still going to have to put in £20m to stop it going bust.

 

Ashley was unbelievably naive to not do any checking at all before he bought us. That he didn't know of the debt is amazing, that he didn't know we had spent the whole 4 year sponsorship deal on in 2005, and were actually now paying Northern Rock rather than them us,  was slack. That he didn't know we had wages that went up on average over 10% every year for 11 years  was stupid. That his predessor boasts about all this is sad.

 

Ashley has made a fool of himself by not completely understanding the mess he inherited. His only redeeming feature is that he stopped the club having to go into administration, and likely relegation from the points deduction.

 

Your efforts are appreciated.

[Guest elbee909]

standby for an NE5 yawnfest

 

no, it wasn't me who started this thread.

 

It's quite amazing that you still haven't seen the blatantly obvious, after the events of the last 2 weeks.

 

 

What's amazing to me - well, not really - is that because I think your same-old, same-old posts are a bit yawnsome, you assume I think the opposite of everything you think.  Well, I don't, but your crowing doesn't do you any favours.  I don't necessarily disagree with everything you ever say, but you keep on attributing that to me if it helps you sleep at night.

 

well, thats what I said about macbeth, who has suddenly re-surfaced after months away. Is that any different, or is it because you agree with him and not me - assuming you STILL don't get the idea yet.

 

 

Assume whatever you like.  Why break the habit of a lifetime?

[NE5]

standby for an NE5 yawnfest

 

no, it wasn't me who started this thread.

 

It's quite amazing that you still haven't seen the blatantly obvious, after the events of the last 2 weeks.

 

 

What's amazing to me - well, not really - is that because I think your same-old, same-old posts are a bit yawnsome, you assume I think the opposite of everything you think.  Well, I don't, but your crowing doesn't do you any favours.  I don't necessarily disagree with everything you ever say, but you keep on attributing that to me if it helps you sleep at night.

 

well, thats what I said about macbeth, who has suddenly re-surfaced after months away. Is that any different, or is it because you agree with him and not me - assuming you STILL don't get the idea yet.

 

 

Assume whatever you like.  Why break the habit of a lifetime?

 

the balls in your court. Tell macbeth he posts the same old repetitive bollocks - which he does. Coming back after all this time, how sad is that 

 

 

[ChezGiven]

Macbeth just pulls figures out of his arse, always has done.

 

Just because he then runs those figures through Chart Wizard doesnt mean the original figures are correct.

[afar]

Macbeth just pulls figures out of his arse, always has done.

 

Just because he then runs those figures through Chart Wizard doesnt mean the original figures are correct.

 

Not trying to defend him but he quoted the clubs accounts. If he's wrong then what are the real figures you refer to. No point bashing someone without providing the proof to back it up.