Save Newcastle United

[Dave]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterlee

[indi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterlee

 

Is his name not Peter Lee?

 

Seems it's Peter Williams.

 

Williams, Lee, same difference, still deluded.

[Dave]

Peter Lee is the spokesman for Newcastle Fans Untied.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I suspect that the people who want a fans' takeover also want the club to be competing at the top end of the Premiership, alongside the clubs that are run as multi-million pound corporate businesses. It's known as having your cake and eating it.

 

Or alternatively wanting what is best for your club...

 

How is it what's best for the club?

 

An answer taking into account the reality of the situation would be appreciated.

 

What about what's best for the fans who have been convinced to give over their hard earned money to this scheme that is never ever going to work, having been given the impression that it will by you and this Peter Lee bloke?

 

I've stated several times now not just in this thread but others why I believe the club being owned by fans (not ran by fans!) would be the best thing for the club long-term. The last regime and now this one and countless others before Sir John Hall have all been incompetent, mismanaged the club and gambled with the security of the club both on and off the pitch. I don't know about you but we as fans and the game as a sport cannot just hope for the best where owners are concerned or blindly put faith into people just because they claim to be fans or in it for the love, to do so would be reckless. It seems (to me anyway) that the logical thing to do would be for fans and the game to look into fan ownership and seriously too rather than some idealistic dream or lost idea.

 

Your last line, you're over-reacting Indi, I'd be dumbstruck if anyone handed over their hard earned cash to any scheme, this one or whatever else has been floated about because of some comments by me posted on a message board and nowhere have I give the impression that it would work either.

 

Why do you seem so against fan ownership by the way? I understand fully how unlikely it is given the financial cost of purchasing the club so I can accept your arguments about all that but surely you aren't ignorant to the many many possible benefits fan ownership would bring least of all guarantee the club much needed security.

 

Security only we can guarantee.

 

Unless you want to take another chance, another risk?

 

I don't. Like I said the past few years and the last few weeks have ripped all my trust and faith away from me meaning whoever sits in the Directors Box I'll find extremely tough to trust and that is torture because it spreads right down into everything about the club.

 

Look at this season, we were all up on a high at Old Trafford, a promising season awaited us, we all considered Ashley a good bloke and a positive at our club. Now look at it. A mess. In the short space of a few weeks.

 

NUFC demands faith, hope and devotion and lots of your money too, how though can we give all of that to something so untrustworthy and so unreliable as an Ashley, a Freddy Shepherd? It is hard and this (Shearergol) is the crux of the issue (for me anyway) and not just the resignation of KK. He was just the spark. This is what is forcing people to protest, to walk away, to view ideas like fan ownership as something not only interesting but also most welcome and I subscribe fully to the idea because Newcastle United is too big and means too much to people the world over to be at the mercy of a Mike Ashley, an Arab consortium, a Geordie family or whoever else.

 

Long-term this and other similar clubs need to be taken back and put into the hands of those that have the clubs' best interests at heart, the fans. As we are the only people in this corrupt, stinking glorified sport who care and are in it for the football and community and nothing else.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

If our manager was Allardyce, and the same thing had happened, fans wouldn't be reacting this way.

 

If our owner was Shepherd, and the same thing had happened, you and others wouldn't be reacting this way and you know it.

 

 

It might not be about Keegan now, but it was about Keegan 2 weeks ago.

 

Thanks for agreeing with me.

 

By the way, the "clueless" media reported that this was going to happen, and you laughed it off. Irony, eh!

 

Aye, and what a mug I was.

 

Stick to the other United, Scunthorpe.

[indi]

I suspect that the people who want a fans' takeover also want the club to be competing at the top end of the Premiership, alongside the clubs that are run as multi-million pound corporate businesses. It's known as having your cake and eating it.

 

Or alternatively wanting what is best for your club...

 

How is it what's best for the club?

 

An answer taking into account the reality of the situation would be appreciated.

 

What about what's best for the fans who have been convinced to give over their hard earned money to this scheme that is never ever going to work, having been given the impression that it will by you and this Peter Lee bloke?

 

I've stated several times now not just in this thread but others why I believe the club being owned by fans (not ran by fans!) would be the best thing for the club long-term. The last regime and now this one and countless others before Sir John Hall have all been incompetent, mismanaged the club and gambled with the security of the club both on and off the pitch. I don't know about you but we as fans and the game as a sport cannot just hope for the best where owners are concerned or blindly put faith into people just because they claim to be fans or in it for the love, to do so would be reckless. It seems (to me anyway) that the logical thing to do would be for fans and the game to look into fan ownership and seriously too rather than some idealistic dream or lost idea.

 

Your last line, you're over-reacting Indi, I'd be dumbstruck if anyone handed over their hard earned cash to any scheme, this one or whatever else has been floated about because of some comments by me posted on a message board and nowhere have I give the impression that it would work either.

 

Why do you seem so against fan ownership by the way? I understand fully how unlikely it is given the financial cost of purchasing the club so I can accept your arguments about all that but surely you aren't ignorant to the many many possible benefits fan ownership would bring least of all guarantee the club much needed security.

 

Security only we can guarantee.

 

Unless you want to take another chance, another risk?

 

I don't. Like I said the past few years and the last few weeks have ripped all my trust and faith away from me meaning whoever sits in the Directors Box I'll find extremely tough to trust and that is torture because it spreads right down into everything about the club.

 

Look at this season, we were all up on a high at Old Trafford, a promising season awaited us, we all considered Ashley a good bloke and a positive at our club. Now look at it. A mess. In the short space of a few weeks.

 

NUFC demands faith, hope and devotion and lots of your money too, how though can we give all of that to something so untrustworthy and so unreliable as an Ashley, a Freddy Shepherd? It is hard and this (Shearergol) is the crux of the issue (for me anyway) and not just the resignation of KK. He was just the spark. This is what is forcing people to protest, to walk away, to view ideas like fan ownership as something not only interesting but also most welcome and I subscribe fully to the idea because Newcastle United is too big and means too much to people the world over to be at the mercy of a Mike Ashley, an Arab consortium, a Geordie family or whoever else.

 

Long-term this and other similar clubs need to be taken back and put into the hands of those that have the clubs' best interests at heart, the fans. As we are the only people in this corrupt, stinking glorified sport who care and are in it for the football and community and nothing else.

 

So, you're not going to address the questions that have been posed and the issues that have been raised about the practicality of fan ownership, you're just going to eulogise about it again!!

 

Therein lies the reason that I am against fan ownership of a club as big as NUFC, fans by their very nature are unrealistic, they are unable to distinguish between reality and fantasy, they're not interested in the practicalities of running a football club in real life.

 

People have raised issue after issue with this, yet no-one who supports it has addressed any of them, let alone provided a convincing counter-argument. I'm bored of asking questions and raising issues that get ignored, so I'm not going to raise any more (there are shit-loads, by the way) and I'm not going to repeat myself either, it should be pretty obvious why I'm against the idea already, but I'll spell it out for you if you want.

 

Fans are irrational, they think with their heart not their head, that is not the way to run a football club, that is the way to ruin a football club. Look at what's happened over the last few weeks, a whole load of people acting based upon emotion rather than rationale have taken what was a promising situation for this club (the first season we've gone into for a long time where I've genuinely felt positive about the club and where it was heading) and totally fucked it up, not only that but the club itself has been torn apart and lies in ruins, it's a fucking mess of epic proportions. KK, the fans, and subsequently, the board, have all let emotion get the better of them and have made shocking decisions due to that, like I said emotion is not the way to run a football club.

 

Fan ownership is a recipe for disaster. The very fact that some fans are deluded enough to think that they're going to raise £300m plus and buy the club, shows just how tenuous grip on reality the kind of people who want to do this have, you can't have people like that in charge of NUFC, the club would go out of business within a week. You don't put the lunatics in charge of the asylum.

 

[Guest Mcdonald36]

The problem with internet forums is they give licence to clueless people to fill them with utter shite.

 

The fans wouldn't be in charge, the club would be run like any other. The difference being the fans, or members who have contributed, would have a vote in who runs it at every election. They have no say in the day to day running of the club at all.

 

We'd also be out of the hands of greedy investors with all profits going back into the club where they belong.

 

Barcelona are the benchmark and prove that it can be done. It just needs enough fans to make a commitment to the club they claim to be passionate about.

[indi]

The problem with internet forums is they give licence to clueless people to fill them with utter shite.

 

The fans wouldn't be in charge, the club would be run like any other. The difference being the fans, or members who have contributed, would have a vote in who runs it at every election. They have no say in the day to day running of the club at all.

 

We'd also be out of the hands of greedy investors with all profits going back into the club where they belong.

 

Barcelona are the benchmark and prove that it can be done. It just needs enough fans to make a commitment to the club they claim to be passionate about.

 

Well you've certainly proved you point there, well done.

 

You're aware that the fans have been given the opportunity to own the club twice before, once they rejected it and the other was when it was a PLC and we all know how that turned out. You do realise that any fans that were shareholders had a vote over who ran the club and how it was run, don't you? How would this be different?

 

Anyway, are you going to be the one who tells us all how you're going to get the £300m?

 

While you're at it why don't you answer the other questions and address the other issues raised in this thread.

 

Here's a few more and all:

 

If the fans aren't in charge, what's the point? What do they get for their money? What's the point of owning something you have no control over? Or very little control? Surely you buy something because you want it to be run in the way you want, not the way someone else does?

 

Profits, what profits!?!

 

When did the Barca fans have to raise £300m+ to buy the club? I must have missed that.

[Guest optimistic nit]

well in theory indi, if the fans own the club then any profits the club makes would go back into the club, as long as there is a no dividend agreement or something.

 

However this "not in charge" thing is bullshit. of course the fans are in charge, they choose the fucking chairman, who in turn will run the club and choose everything else. the fans may not be able to choose who to sign directly and pick the team directly, but we've seen how far this has exploded just because Keegan RESIGNED.

 

i wouldn't trust the fans to make a logical decision on who runs the club based on what i've seen over the past 2 weeks.

 

 

 

also no matter what anyone says, if our club wants to compete it needs money pumped into it by an owner. not chelsea or man citeh ammounts, but enough to keep us in the top 8 and ahead of the mackems.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

One of their facebook groups has 116 members and the other has 13.

 

If they all chip in, I reckon they only need another 299,871 people to sign up and this could actually be on

 

Or put another way, those 129 members only need to find another 2,325 people each and it's all systems go  mackems.gif

 

The facebook groups are now up to 263 members

[Shearergol]

If our manager was Allardyce, and the same thing had happened, fans wouldn't be reacting this way.

 

If our owner was Shepherd, and the same thing had happened, you and others wouldn't be reacting this way and you know it.

 

 

It might not be about Keegan now, but it was about Keegan 2 weeks ago.

 

Thanks for agreeing with me.

 

By the way, the "clueless" media reported that this was going to happen, and you laughed it off. Irony, eh!

 

Aye, and what a mug I was.

 

Stick to the other United, Scunthorpe.

 

 

You, as a sky boy, have no right to tell me who to support. Stop being a prick.

[indi]

well in theory indi, if the fans own the club then any profits the club makes would go back into the club, as long as there is a no dividend agreement or something.

 

However this "not in charge" thing is bullshit. of course the fans are in charge, they choose the fucking chairman, who in turn will run the club and choose everything else. the fans may not be able to choose who to sign directly and pick the team directly, but we've seen how far this has exploded just because Keegan RESIGNED.

 

i wouldn't trust the fans to make a logical decision on who runs the club based on what i've seen over the past 2 weeks.

 

 

 

also no matter what anyone says, if our club wants to compete it needs money pumped into it by an owner. not chelsea or man citeh ammounts, but enough to keep us in the top 8 and ahead of the mackems.

 

Yeah, but in theory - and I'm pretty confident this theory would prove to be correct - if I was a billionaire I'd be able to make investments and suchlike that would allow me to significantly increase that billion each and every year. Now, if I could only get my hands on that first billion.

 

In theory, if I was an airline pilot I could fly a plane. In theory, if I was an astronaut I could go into space. In theory, if I was prime minister I'd be running the country. Etc, etc, etc.

 

Without the plan, or the ability to get those theories made into reality, they're totally worthless, just like the theory that the fans could own NUFC. The people who are putting that theory forward don't have the first idea about how they're going to get to a point where they can put it into practice, let alone what they'll do if they did.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Surely the only way for the fans to 'own but not run' the club would be for it to be made a public limited company again, with the fans as shareholders?

 

Then we would be back to the previous situation where it is theoretically possible for us to choose who is the chairman, but only every so often and only from the candidates that put themselves forward. Then when he is in power he will take actions that will divide the fans just like the current owner does.

 

And, like at Madrid, he will be forced to promise unrealistic signings that will unbalance the team in order to get reelected. If you don't like Ashley's PR then be prepared to drown in a tidal wave of populist, sycophantic drivel during the run up to an election.

[Guest fraser]

Does any body know who Peter Lee is. He's refered to in the Echo as someone who has advised the government. Is this him?

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1031302.ece

[ToonTastic]

Surely the only way for the fans to 'own but not run' the club would be for it to be made a public limited company again, with the fans as shareholders?

 

Then we would be back to the previous situation where it is theoretically possible for us to choose who is the chairman, but only every so often and only from the candidates that put themselves forward. Then when he is in power he will take actions that will divide the fans just like the current owner does.

 

And, like at Madrid, he will be forced to promise unrealistic signings that will unbalance the team in order to get reelected. If you don't like Ashley's PR then be prepared to drown in a tidal wave of populist, sycophantic drivel during the run up to an election.

 

Why would it have to be a public ltd company. Why can't it be a privately owned company just the fans own it ? The idea is nobody has a larger share than others so every vote is worth one, this doesn't happen with a public limited company.

[ToonTastic]

Does any body know who Peter Lee is. He's refered to in the Echo as someone who has advised the government. Is this him?

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1031302.ece

 

Isn't it the sports lawyer who has advised the government not Peter Lee.

[Guest fraser]

Does any body know who Peter Lee is. He's refered to in the Echo as someone who has advised the government. Is this him?

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1031302.ece

 

Isn't it the sports lawyer who has advised the government not Peter Lee.

 

Not according to the report in the Echo.

 

'Lee, who has advised the Government and is a guest lecturer at a leading English university...'.

 

 

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/3686440.Ashley___s_fruitless_trip_to_Dubai_is_ridiculed/

 

[indi]

Surely the only way for the fans to 'own but not run' the club would be for it to be made a public limited company again, with the fans as shareholders?

 

Then we would be back to the previous situation where it is theoretically possible for us to choose who is the chairman, but only every so often and only from the candidates that put themselves forward. Then when he is in power he will take actions that will divide the fans just like the current owner does.

 

And, like at Madrid, he will be forced to promise unrealistic signings that will unbalance the team in order to get reelected. If you don't like Ashley's PR then be prepared to drown in a tidal wave of populist, sycophantic drivel during the run up to an election.

 

Why would it have to be a public ltd company. Why can't it be a privately owned company just the fans own it ? The idea is nobody has a larger share than others so every vote is worth one, this doesn't happen with a public limited company.

 

For the same reasons I gave the last time, Phil, it's simply not going to work.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

If our manager was Allardyce, and the same thing had happened, fans wouldn't be reacting this way.

 

If our owner was Shepherd, and the same thing had happened, you and others wouldn't be reacting this way and you know it.

 

 

It might not be about Keegan now, but it was about Keegan 2 weeks ago.

 

Thanks for agreeing with me.

 

By the way, the "clueless" media reported that this was going to happen, and you laughed it off. Irony, eh!

 

Aye, and what a mug I was.

 

Stick to the other United, Scunthorpe.

 

 

You, as a sky boy, have no right to tell me who to support. Stop being a prick.

 

That was out of order Shearergol, I apologise for that and you're right I have no right saying that since I didn't start following the club until late on as a kid (10 or 11 I think, now 28) just when things were starting to turn good for the club. Again sorry, I've been a prick with you and a few others. 

[Syrette]

Group hug?

[Guest optimistic nit]

If our manager was Allardyce, and the same thing had happened, fans wouldn't be reacting this way.

 

If our owner was Shepherd, and the same thing had happened, you and others wouldn't be reacting this way and you know it.

 

 

It might not be about Keegan now, but it was about Keegan 2 weeks ago.

 

Thanks for agreeing with me.

 

By the way, the "clueless" media reported that this was going to happen, and you laughed it off. Irony, eh!

 

Aye, and what a mug I was.

 

Stick to the other United, Scunthorpe.

 

 

You, as a sky boy, have no right to tell me who to support. Stop being a prick.

 

That was out of order Shearergol, I apologise for that and you're right I have no right saying that since I didn't start following the club until late on as a kid (10 or 11 I think, now 28) just when things were starting to turn good for the club. Again sorry, I've been a prick with you and a few others. 

 

 

 

 

you're just too damn emotional woman! sort it out

[Guest Howaythetoon]

 

So, you're not going to address the questions that have been posed and the issues that have been raised about the practicality of fan ownership, you're just going to eulogise about it again!!

 

I have addressed them or at least discussed them. What format do you want it in, a business plan or something?

 

Therein lies the reason that I am against fan ownership of a club as big as NUFC, fans by their very nature are unrealistic, they are unable to distinguish between reality and fantasy, they're not interested in the practicalities of running a football club in real life.

 

You have such a low opinion of your fellow fans Indi. This is why a supporters club has been set up or one of the main reasons, to promote ourselves in true colors rather than how the media portray us which I can understand gives others a false idea of us, but fellow fans too? To say fans can't distinguish between reality and fantasy is bollocks, utter bollocks and highly patronising which to be frank, I find to be quite the norm on here these days. It seems no-one can really say what they feel without some sneering cock being smart, arsey or jumping on a high horse. And how do you know fans are not interested in the practicalities of running a football club anyway? In fact I'd say this here forum is living proof they are as the running of the club in all areas is debated more than anything else on here and has been for ages. Fans are interested, very much so. It isn't all about transfers, new players and football.

 

People have raised issue after issue with this, yet no-one who supports it has addressed any of them, let alone provided a convincing counter-argument. I'm bored of asking questions and raising issues that get ignored, so I'm not going to raise any more (there are s***-loads, by the way) and I'm not going to repeat myself either, it should be pretty obvious why I'm against the idea already, but I'll spell it out for you if you want.

 

Why do you want people to address these all-important "issues" you talk of when you're clearly dead set against it (we get the message) and would only mock and put down anyway as you've done so several times now.

 

Fans are irrational, they think with their heart not their head, that is not the way to run a football club, that is the way to ruin a football club. Look at what's happened over the last few weeks, a whole load of people acting based upon emotion rather than rationale have taken what was a promising situation for this club (the first season we've gone into for a long time where I've genuinely felt positive about the club and where it was heading) and totally f***ed it up, not only that but the club itself has been torn apart and lies in ruins, it's a f***ing mess of epic proportions. KK, the fans, and subsequently, the board, have all let emotion get the better of them and have made shocking decisions due to that, like I said emotion is not the way to run a football club.

 

Yeah, blame the fans, it is all our fault. Silly us, we are the ones that have screwed this up for you. I apologise 100 times, please forgive me. Get over yourself man and this self pity it's pathetic, have some pride in your fellow fans who are and always have been the best thing about this club.

 

Give fans something to believe in and don't do anything to f*** that up and they are putty in your hands.

 

Oh and in case this didn't register first time, fans won't be running the club, there is a difference between owning and running.

 

Fan ownership is a recipe for disaster. The very fact that some fans are deluded enough to think that they're going to raise £300m plus and buy the club, shows just how tenuous grip on reality the kind of people who want to do this have, you can't have people like that in charge of NUFC, the club would go out of business within a week. You don't put the lunatics in charge of the asylum.

 

There are several fan owned clubs that prove otherwise, that fans owning their clubs is not a recipe for disaster. Two of the world's biggest clubs are owned by their fans for example.

[Cronky]

Sorry, Chris, you're just wrong about this. Things are achieved by good leadership, not a bunch of well-intentioned people driven by emotion. Ashley was the right man to take the club forward. The crowd are not always good judges of this kind of situation.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Sorry, Chris, you're just wrong about this. Things are achieved by good leadership, not a bunch of well-intentioned people driven by emotion. Ashley was the right man to take the club forward. The crowd are not always good judges of this kind of situation.

 

Err, once again, fans wouldn't be running the club. As for Ashley, if he's the right man for the club then we really are fucked if this is him taking the club forward.

[madras]

which clubs of this size have been taken over by the fans ?