Would you take 17th place right now ?

[madras]

the Mrs reckons i already have took 17th place ?

 

(what does she mean)

 

It sounds like you're crap although that's just a guess.

not exactly a newsflash

[Mr Logic]

So, if he put his principles first, why did he walk out on the club hours after the transfer window closed and not as soon as he realised he was been undermined in the market?

 

 

 

His 'Judge me at midnight' comment comes in there I guess. He was giving them till the last minute to get    in before the window closed. It didn't come off, he walked - sticking by his principles but damaging team spirit, fan optimism and ultimately the club.

[Mick]

not exactly a newsflash

 

[madras]

So, if he put his principles first, why did he walk out on the club hours after the transfer window closed and not as soon as he realised he was been undermined in the market?

 

 

 

His 'Judge me at midnight' comment comes in there I guess. He was giving them till the last minute to get in before the window closed. It disn't come off, he walked - sticking by his principles but damaging team spirit, fan optimism and ultimately the club.

then would he have have stopped if schweinsteiger came in....but the player decides not to. does keegan walk then even if the club made a legitimate attempt to get him ?.

[Mr Logic]

[Mick]

then would he have have stopped if schweinsteiger came in....but the player decides not to. does keegan walk then even if the club made a legitimate attempt to get him ?.

 

We made a 100% genuine bid for Modric, who wanted him was another thing.

[midds]

So, if he put his principles first, why did he walk out on the club hours after the transfer window closed and not as soon as he realised he was been undermined in the market?

 

 

 

Because then the club could have easily contradicted him by saying "but we were going to give Kevin all the funds he needed". Once the window closed, surely that was the point when he realised that he could do no more.

 

Perhaps.

 

If he was as highly-pincipled as HTT is making out I'd have thought he'd have been off like a shot regardless. As soon as Wise tells him the club are signing Gutierrez and telling him to find him on youtube should have been the trigger.

 

This is just my opinion - but I think Keegan chose the exact time which would cause maximum hassle for Ashley, Wise et al. Unfortunately, in doing this he also drops the club in the shite too.

 

I realise that might not please everyone but it's just what I think and we may never know exactly what went on to force him to walk. Who knows?

[Guest Howaythetoon]

So, if he put his principles first, why did he walk out on the club hours after the transfer window closed and not as soon as he realised he was been undermined in the market?

 

 

 

I don't think it is as clear as that, like he was suddenly undermined or undermined from the off. I think a few things lead to one another, culminating in the sale of Milner behind his back and the purchase of players behind his back also. The final straw if you like, the point of no going back.

 

I'm mainly guessing here but I'll put this scenario to you.

 

For the first few months things were going well, if not a bit slow for KKs liking. Money was obviously there as bids for Modric and Woodgate indicated and with the up and coming summer window approaching, things were looking good. Money to spend, a team of people to scout and suggest players to add to KK's own ideas.

 

Bombshell 1 - on the eve of the Chelsea match KK learned that a wage ceiling was to be introduced which may hinder KK's hopes of keeping Owen and attracting the better players.

 

Following on from his rant a meeting was set-up to work through things as KK was obviously unhappy.

 

At this meeting a compromise was reached. The wage ceiling stayed but more funds for players would materialise and Owen would be tempted by numerous add-ons to boost his wage. Fair enough KK thought.

 

After the Euros finished everyone got down to business, in come a few players like Jonas which was suggested to KK. He liked what he saw and said yes please.

 

Others were suggested, KK said no thanks.

 

In come Guthrie, then Bassong. KK wanted Guthrie and was delighted to have him. Bassong wasn't on the radar but what harm taking a look. Take a look he did. Yes please, I'll have him.

 

Now lets spend some money.

 

Collocini Kev, fancy him? Yes please.

 

In he comes.

 

How about the left-back and another central defender as Faye wants away.

 

We're on it Kev.

 

Oh, and Taylor, Milner and Owen, get them signed up lads.

 

No sweat Kev, we're on it.

 

Taylor signs up. Great news thinks Kev.

 

What about Milner Dennis?

 

Villa want him Kev, wanna sell?

 

No.

 

Sure?

 

Yep.

 

OK.

 

Get Owen signed up.

 

We're working on it Kev.

 

Milner's heard of Villa's interest, is pissed off there has been no contract offer, he has handed in a transfer request.

 

Bugger.

 

Don't worry though, we all want him to stay.

 

And Owen?

 

No news.

 

That left-back?

 

No news.

 

That other defender?

 

No news.

 

We could do with a striker and another midfielder too, any chance? I quite like (insert names here) these guys.

 

We'll look into it.

 

Next thing you know Milner has been sold.

 

Don't worry though Kev, you get to keep Owen, look we've offered him a new deal, it says so on our website.

 

That LB KK, no can do. Here's two foreign guys instead.

 

Etc. etc.

 

I'm sure the Barton affair played a part too.

 

In short I'm saying it was a gradual thing, that suddenly hit home and become irretrievable.

 

Hughton could also have been an issue. I remember Beardsley saying at a talk-in oddly enough that he thought Hughton wasn't KK's decision, or rather he was suggested to him.

 

Maybe KK agreed to that if Cox would be kept on?

 

 

[madras]

then would he have have stopped if schweinsteiger came in....but the player decides not to. does keegan walk then even if the club made a legitimate attempt to get him ?.

 

We made a 100% genuine bid for Modric, who wanted him was another thing.

you know who wanted him ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

spurs

[Mick]

We're not selling games out, did the season ticket sales change our policy?

[Mr Logic]

That's another point in all this. Why did Cox leave?

[madras]

That's another point in all this. Why did Cox leave?

and if he was forced why didn't keegan go then ?

[Mick]

That's another point in all this. Why did Cox leave?

 

I'm sure he was always here for a limited time to look at the club as a whole rather than the first team.  Was he here for 12 months?  He might have had a 12 month contract.

[Mr Logic]

I got the impression he had walked? Maybe just the way it was reported at the time left me feeling that. There are so many factors, even years from now it is doubtful we will have the whole picture - as time passes people's stories/memories of events will change.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Call me crazy but the more I look at it the more I think Ashley brought KK in to keep the fans happy when it would become abundantly obvious that there wasn't going to be any transfer budget of any note as the process of recouping money began, only he didn't bargain for what KK meant to us all nor just how principled a man KK was. Why I think this was a very calculated move is the small issue of the resignation clause in KK's contract. Why would he put that in? Perhaps he considered KK may threaten to walk when he realised what was going on, so put it in to almost not blackmail him but to make it impossible for him to resign. If KK agreed to that which he did, he must have really believed what was being sold to him, because he's a clever man too and calculating as well. This is maybe why Ashley didn't fly back "KK will never resign and we'll never sack him as we'll have to pay him up".

 

OMG he did resign.

 

Cue mass panic by Ashley and the board.

 

 

[Mick]

I got the impression he had walked? Maybe just the way it was reported at the time left me feeling that. There are so many factors, even years from now it is doubtful we will have the whole picture - as time passes people's stories/memories of events will change.

 

I got the impression that he walked but can remember something being said when he arrived, I might look for it.

[midds]

So, if he put his principles first, why did he walk out on the club hours after the transfer window closed and not as soon as he realised he was been undermined in the market?

 

 

 

I don't think it is as clear as that, like he was suddenly undermined or undermined from the off. I think a few things lead to one another, culminating in the sale of Milner behind his back and the purchase of players behind his back also. The final straw if you like, the point of no going back.

 

I'm mainly guessing here but I'll put this scenario to you.

 

 

We just don't know what went on behind the scenes which makes it impossible to try to analyse what happened this summer. I'm still a bit stunned by the whole business and there have been so many theories that I've tied myself in knots trying to make sense of it all.

 

All I know is that Keegan walked out on us at the absolute worst possible time. If him being undermined in the market was the main issue, why walk as soon as it no longer became an issue? It wouldn't have resurfaced until December as we approached Jan 1st. And if it was the main issue, why not walk as son as he had an inkling he wasn't in total charge of transfer policy?

 

Those are my main problems with how it's panned out. I'm sure there's a perfectly good answer, and I'm probably missing it, but it doesn't add up. 

[madras]

I got the impression he had walked? Maybe just the way it was reported at the time left me feeling that. There are so many factors, even years from now it is doubtful we will have the whole picture - as time passes people's stories/memories of events will change.

this will sound spiteful but here goes................keegan gave differing reasons why he left the first time. which one to believe ? keegan taking the club to court or vice-versa is the only way to get anywhere near the truth but it will drag the club through even more shit. is it worth it ?

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Mort... did he foresee all this and told Ashley he didn't want to be part of it or that he considered it too risky and so Ashley moved him on? I mean Mort at one point didn't really know whether he was staying or going and seemed uncertain about things which as Chairman, you'd think he'd have been more clued up about.

[Mick]

Call me crazy but the more I look at it the more I think Ashley brought KK in to keep the fans happy when it would become abundantly obvious that there wasn't going to be any transfer budget of any note as the process of recouping money began, only he didn't bargain for what KK meant to us all nor just how principled a man KK was. Why I think this was a very calculated move is the small issue of the resignation clause in KK's contract. Why would he put that in? Perhaps he considered KK may threaten to walk when he realised what was going on, so put it in to almost not blackmail him but to make it impossible for him to resign. If KK agreed to that which he did, he must have really believed what was being sold to him, because he's a clever man too and calculating as well. This is maybe why Ashley didn't fly back "KK will never resign and we'll never sack him as we'll have to pay him up".

 

OMG he did resign.

 

Cue mass panic by Ashley and the board.

 

 

 

Nobody was asking for Keegan to be brought back, Ashley wasn't under any pressure to go out and get him.

[madras]

Mort... did he foresee all this and told Ashley he didn't want to be part of it or that he considered it too risky and so Ashley moved him on? I mean Mort at one point didn't really know whether he was staying or going and seemed uncertain about things which as Chairman, you'd think he'd have been more clued up about.

or maybe he wasn't very good at handling the press. ie couldn't spin and con like a pro.

[Mowen]

Mort... did he foresee all this and told Ashley he didn't want to be part of it or that he considered it too risky and so Ashley moved him on? I mean Mort at one point didn't really know whether he was staying or going and seemed uncertain about things which as Chairman, you'd think he'd have been more clued up about.

 

I thought Mort was only ever a short term appointment to sort us out? I was sure I'd heard something along those lines when he came in.

[Mick]

or maybe he wasn't very good at handling the press. ie couldn't spin and con like a pro.

 

Maybe (that word again ) Mort didn't want to spin and con, I can't think of anything which he said or did that might suggest that he wasn't anything other than honest.  He wasn't here long but he's made some changes for the better, at least it appeared that way at the time, I'd have him back without thinking and I doubt we'd be in this shit if he'd stayed.

[Mick]

 

I thought Mort was only ever a short term appointment to sort us out? I was sure I'd heard something along those lines when he came in.

 

He was here on a 12 month contract but it could have been extended if both sides wanted it to happen.

[Mr Logic]

Yes Mort was only ever there on a 12 month basis, wonder if that's what Mick is thinking about?

 

Edit: Damn...