He's gone down in my estimation.

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

He chose his ego over the club, simple as that, i said it at the time.

 

Or he chose his principles over the club... simple as that.

 

And you support that. So you support Keegan over the club.

 

Who is "the club" ?

 

The club is the club.

[Kimbo]

He chose his ego over the club, simple as that, i said it at the time.

 

Or he chose his principles over the club... simple as that.

 

Whatever, that doesn't make it OK in my eyes.

[Teasy]

If Keegan really is doing the best thing for the club then he'll give us the £2 mill he owes the club for his resignation no questions asked.

 

Why?, it doesn't fucking go to the club anyway, it goes straight into Ashley's pocket, and don't think for a second his ludicrous sale price will drop by £2 million accordingly either!

[Guest Luque20]

I wanted to slap Kevin Keegan, says Newcastle's managing diector

 

By Jeremy Armstrong 20/09/2008

 

The chief executive of Newcastle United has spelled out the extent of his bitter rift with former manager Kevin Keegan.

 

While downing Mojito cocktails in Dubai, Derek Llambias was heard to say of one meeting with the 57-year-old England legend: "I had to have a third person in the room when I met him otherwise I would have slapped him."

 

The remark was made on Tuesday as Llambias, club owner Mike Ashley and director of football Dennis Wise visited the oil-rich state in a failed bid to sell the crisis-hit Premiership outfit.

 

Ashley, 45, was said to have been angered by an "insulting" offer of less than £200million from representatives of Dubai's royal family and snubbed a meeting with them that night, staying in a bar with Llambias and Wise instead.

 

Ashley was said to want £480million - more than twice the sum he paid for United in 2007.

 

He told Llambias: "I would rather stick with the club than sell at that price.

 

"I will put up with the fury of the fans. I am not going to sell for a knock-down price."

 

Meanwhile, it emerged yesterday that Ashley could have sold the club to Dubai investors three months ago.

 

The unknown potential buyers proposed a takeover which would have put a Geordie management team in place at St James' Park - a move seen as key in having a deal accepted by United fans.

 

But after making contact with the club, the London brokers representing the client never heard anything back.

 

It is not known if they would still do business.

 

Peter Cadman, a solicitor representing Ashley and Llambias, said in a statement yesterday: "Mr Ashley may well have expressed his views that the discussed valuation for the club was too low.

 

"His approach was not to express disinterest in either the views or the opinions of the fans.

 

"Mr Llambias does recall saying he was very frustrated by Mr Keegan during a negotiations meeting that he could have slapped him."

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/2008/09/20/i-wanted-to-slap-kevin-keegan-says-newcastle-s-managing-diector-115875-20745414/

[oldtype]

Would he not have "left us in the lurch" whenever he decided to go though?

 

If he leaves in January, May, or September, there would be the same public outcry, the same s**** communication from the club, the same owner with no idea how to run a football club.

 

Keegan obviously has his reasons for going. I respect him for that (managers such as Alaex Ferguson, Phil Brown, Steve Bruce etc. all said they would have done the same).

 

This thread just seems pathetic.

 

It would not have been ideal at any time, but he chose the worst time possible.

 

He chose his ego over the club, simple as that, i said it at the time.

 

Or he chose his principles over the club... simple as that.

 

And that makes him better how?

 

Have a word with yourself for crying out loud.

 

I'm sure he didn't think to himself "hey you know what, I'll resign just when the window shuts so it leaves the club in the s***".

 

On your second point, principles are a lot different to egos. If someone quits their job to suit their ego, then they are obviously putting themselves first. If someone leaves their job out of principle, that would suggest that they didn't really want to have to leave, but felt they had no choice.

 

You're not addressing the core of this argument at all.

 

a) he could have presevered at least untill the off-season

 

b) he decided that his own preferences (whether it be principle or ego or whatever you want to call it) was more important than the club's future. You always have a choice.

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

What a joke of an article

[Robster]

Another useless story from the Mirror.

[ChezGiven]

 

This is a key question that people dont seem to be asking themselves - is there actually anything that could happen in 3 days that could force your hand that much - especially as it didnt seem that much of an issue throughout the summer with the likes of Colo, Jonas being brought in in similar circumstances.

 

To resign afer the last day of the transfer window is quiet unbelievable if you ask me, how much can you truly love the club  if it takes you 1 day to decide that enoughs enough - especially after it being your third time doing the exact same thing.

 

Its not just about 3 days though is it. This has obviously been building for some time. i had forgotten up until recently about the meeting in London that Keegan was called to after the Chelsea outburst. Something has been building for a while - before any signings even appeared on the scene

 

Well done for seeing this, many cant connect all the stories in the press from May onwards with what happened.

 

2 observations; why wait till the end of the window if he was unhappy for months beforehand? why lie to the fans?

 

Interesting thought, Chez. Do you have any facts to back that up?

 

Aye, posted this elsewhere, in retrospect they are more observations than facts and when i posted it, it was to try and put some perspective on the boycotts etc. 

 

Fact 1. Kevin Keegan was not happy with the structure of the club at the end of last season.

Fact 2. The media reported this with such certainty and frequency that everyone thought they were twats.

Fact 3. The only way the media could have heard this is if someone was feeding them the information.

Fact 4. You'd need to be a special type of retard to think Louise Taylor was hiding behind the curtain in the boardroom of SJP to have been in possession of this story.

Fact 5. You'd need to be a special type of retard to think that Ashley was briefing the media against himself.

Fact 6. You'd now have to be a spectacular retard if you havent worked out that it was actually Keegan who was briefing the media all summer about his dissatisfaction with the way the club was being run.

Fact 7. Of the 4 players brought in during the middle part of the summer all of them were, in his own words, signed off by Keegan and turned out to be fabulous looking purchases.

Fact 8. This means Keegan was signing off excellent value for money players whilst at the same time briefing the media against the club's structure.

Fact 9. If Keegan was briefing the media against the club, then the structure under which he was working was already not to his satisfaction.

Fact 10. Therefore none of the events of the weekend before the transfer window shut were the cause of his unhappiness at the club.

Fact 11. Kevin Keegan has a history of political power plays at football clubs.

 

All the evidence backing this up is in here

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=48889.0

 

Some people might think the club has moved on from this debate but to me its at the heart of everything that is happening. Unless we establish what happened we cant move forward and conclude whether Ashley should have gone. The fact that people have continued to assume he is guilty on the basis of 3 quotes put out by Keegan via the LMA just shows how little basis anyone has had for rupturing the club into little pieces.

 

An Ashley out campaign should have only started once the facts were estbalished, the fact that they were already in full swing on tuesday 2nd september, 2008 shows us that the campaign is based on a foundation of sand as none of the facts were known then. Guilt was assumed and then every effort was made to retrospectively justify the judgement. 

 

 

If he had the best interests of the club at heart, he should have left when the first stories were being leaked into the press, as in May. Not September 2nd.

 

*fucking enormous tin hat on*

 

[Guest Edd]

He chose his ego over the club, simple as that, i said it at the time.

 

Or he chose his principles over the club... simple as that.

 

And you support that. So you support Keegan over the club.

 

No, I support Keegan's reasons for leaving. I didn't say I supported Keegan over the club.

 

Whatever Keegans reasons for leaving, and we still don't know the truth, there's no doubting that the timing of his departure left us in the shit and he must have known it would when he did it. 

 

And for all the flack the club have rightly received for their crap communications, at least they've said something which is more than can be said for Keegan.

[garth]

I think dearest Jeremy better get another job it's obvious he's no reporter. With that load of shit he wrote.

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

He chose his ego over the club, simple as that, i said it at the time.

 

Or he chose his principles over the club... simple as that.

 

And you support that. So you support Keegan over the club.

 

No, I support Keegan's reasons for leaving. I didn't say I supported Keegan over the club.

 

You just said you support Keegan looking out for his own interests (or principles) over him looking out for the best direction for the club. Well done.

 

Why are you being so confrontational?

 

I will always support the team Newcastle United over any manager / owner etc, but I will not side with a setup I don't agree with.

 

Because I'm pissed off with this whole situation and I think other fans should get over the anger of whatever drove Keegan to leave and look to move forward. We have to accept that Ashley may be the owner for some time yet.

 

As for the setup, I think while it's flawed there are some good sides to it. I don't think it was disastrous enough to warrant resignation at the end of the transfer window. I'm not going to start arguing about the system because I'm done arguing for the day.

 

[ChezGiven]

 

This is a key question that people dont seem to be asking themselves - is there actually anything that could happen in 3 days that could force your hand that much - especially as it didnt seem that much of an issue throughout the summer with the likes of Colo, Jonas being brought in in similar circumstances.

 

To resign afer the last day of the transfer window is quiet unbelievable if you ask me, how much can you truly love the club  if it takes you 1 day to decide that enoughs enough - especially after it being your third time doing the exact same thing.

 

Its not just about 3 days though is it. This has obviously been building for some time. i had forgotten up until recently about the meeting in London that Keegan was called to after the Chelsea outburst. Something has been building for a while - before any signings even appeared on the scene

 

Well done for seeing this, many cant connect all the stories in the press from May onwards with what happened.

 

2 observations; why wait till the end of the window if he was unhappy for months beforehand? why lie to the fans?

 

Interesting thought, Chez. Do you have any facts to back that up?

 

Aye, posted this elsewhere, in retrospect they are more observations than facts and when i posted it, it was to try and put some perspective on the boycotts etc. 

 

Fact 1. Kevin Keegan was not happy with the structure of the club at the end of last season.

Fact 2. The media reported this with such certainty and frequency that everyone thought they were twats.

Fact 3. The only way the media could have heard this is if someone was feeding them the information.

Fact 4. You'd need to be a special type of retard to think Louise Taylor was hiding behind the curtain in the boardroom of SJP to have been in possession of this story.

Fact 5. You'd need to be a special type of retard to think that Ashley was briefing the media against himself.

Fact 6. You'd now have to be a spectacular retard if you havent worked out that it was actually Keegan who was briefing the media all summer about his dissatisfaction with the way the club was being run.

Fact 7. Of the 4 players brought in during the middle part of the summer all of them were, in his own words, signed off by Keegan and turned out to be fabulous looking purchases.

Fact 8. This means Keegan was signing off excellent value for money players whilst at the same time briefing the media against the club's structure.

Fact 9. If Keegan was briefing the media against the club, then the structure under which he was working was already not to his satisfaction.

Fact 10. Therefore none of the events of the weekend before the transfer window shut were the cause of his unhappiness at the club.

Fact 11. Kevin Keegan has a history of political power plays at football clubs.

 

All the evidence backing this up is in here

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=48889.0

 

Some people might think the club has moved on from this debate but to me its at the heart of everything that is happening. Unless we establish what happened we cant move forward and conclude whether Ashley should have gone. The fact that people have continued to assume he is guilty on the basis of 3 quotes put out by Keegan via the LMA just shows how little basis anyone has had for rupturing the club into little pieces.

 

An Ashley out campaign should have only started once the facts were estbalished, the fact that they were already in full swing on tuesday 2nd september, 2008 shows us that the campaign is based on a foundation of sand as none of the facts were known then. Guilt was assumed and then every effort was made to retrospectively justify the judgement. 

 

 

If he had the best interests of the club at heart, he should have left when the first stories were being leaked into the press, as in May. Not September 2nd.

 

*f***ing enormous tin hat on*

 

 

I understand your point, but surely this could be countered easily by saying that maybe he was trying to work things out rather than run at the first sign of trouble (which many seem to be accusing him of).

 

So he was happy to work under it all summer during the transfer window but then not happy to work under it during the actual season when the focus is on the first team?

 

It isnt easily countered as that makes no sense.

[oldtype]

Would he not have "left us in the lurch" whenever he decided to go though?

 

If he leaves in January, May, or September, there would be the same public outcry, the same s**** communication from the club, the same owner with no idea how to run a football club.

 

Keegan obviously has his reasons for going. I respect him for that (managers such as Alaex Ferguson, Phil Brown, Steve Bruce etc. all said they would have done the same).

 

This thread just seems pathetic.

 

It would not have been ideal at any time, but he chose the worst time possible.

 

He chose his ego over the club, simple as that, i said it at the time.

 

Or he chose his principles over the club... simple as that.

 

And that makes him better how?

 

Have a word with yourself for crying out loud.

 

I'm sure he didn't think to himself "hey you know what, I'll resign just when the window shuts so it leaves the club in the s***".

 

On your second point, principles are a lot different to egos. If someone quits their job to suit their ego, then they are obviously putting themselves first. If someone leaves their job out of principle, that would suggest that they didn't really want to have to leave, but felt they had no choice.

 

You're not addressing the core of this argument at all.

 

a) he could have presevered at least untill the off-season

 

b) he decided that his own preferences (whether it be principle or ego or whatever you want to call it) was more important than the club's future. You always have a choice.

 

a) would you perservere with your job if you believed you were being undermimed or not allowed to do the job properly? You can't just perservere with something that you know isn't working or just paper over the cracks. Surely it's more honest of him to leave rather than taking his £10,000 a week out of the club (or whatever his wage may have been).

 

b) what's your point? So he chose to leave the club because of his principle which is "having the right to manage". What's wrong with that? It hasn't left us in the lurch. Surely the reasons leading to his resignation have left us in the lurch.

 

No amount of unhappiness from my job, no violation of ANY of my principles would make me leave Newcastle United knowing that my departure would lead to meltdown and possibly even relegation of the club.

 

Is it simple enough for you now?

[Rebellious]

He's put his principles over the long term benefit of the club. He could have told Ashley to find a manager by Jan 1st because he was leaving on that date, instead he's buggered off and left us fucked.

 

I said this last week and got grief for it

[oldtype]

Would he not have "left us in the lurch" whenever he decided to go though?

 

If he leaves in January, May, or September, there would be the same public outcry, the same s**** communication from the club, the same owner with no idea how to run a football club.

 

Keegan obviously has his reasons for going. I respect him for that (managers such as Alaex Ferguson, Phil Brown, Steve Bruce etc. all said they would have done the same).

 

This thread just seems pathetic.

 

It would not have been ideal at any time, but he chose the worst time possible.

 

He chose his ego over the club, simple as that, i said it at the time.

 

Or he chose his principles over the club... simple as that.

 

And that makes him better how?

 

Have a word with yourself for crying out loud.

 

I'm sure he didn't think to himself "hey you know what, I'll resign just when the window shuts so it leaves the club in the s***".

 

On your second point, principles are a lot different to egos. If someone quits their job to suit their ego, then they are obviously putting themselves first. If someone leaves their job out of principle, that would suggest that they didn't really want to have to leave, but felt they had no choice.

 

You're not addressing the core of this argument at all.

 

a) he could have presevered at least untill the off-season

 

b) he decided that his own preferences (whether it be principle or ego or whatever you want to call it) was more important than the club's future. You always have a choice.

 

a) would you perservere with your job if you believed you were being undermimed or not allowed to do the job properly? You can't just perservere with something that you know isn't working or just paper over the cracks. Surely it's more honest of him to leave rather than taking his £10,000 a week out of the club (or whatever his wage may have been).

 

b) what's your point? So he chose to leave the club because of his principle which is "having the right to manage". What's wrong with that? It hasn't left us in the lurch. Surely the reasons leading to his resignation have left us in the lurch.

 

No amount of unhappiness from my job, no violation of ANY of my principles would make me leave Newcastle United knowing that my departure would lead to meltdown and possibly even relegation of the club.

 

Is it simple enough for you now?

 

I understand your point, but I just don't agree with it.

 

Life is too short for staying in a job in which you are unhappy. There's more to life than football and making your piss poor bosses happy.

 

(You're argument about relegation is kneejerk to the extreme)

 

I can understand all that perfectly. Which is why I think it's fair to argue that Keegan never loved the club as much as we thought he did.

[Zero]

 

I understand your point, but I just don't agree with it.

 

Life is too short for staying in a job in which you are unhappy. There's more to life than football and making your piss poor bosses happy.

 

(You're argument about relegation is kneejerk to the extreme)

 

Hindu, you simply cannot argue for that.  Take it this way, no matter how "justified" you think KK's resignation was,

to do it either "3 months earlier" or "3 months later" would make things a lot better.

 

[Guest Mantis]

'A Manager must be allowed to manage'  There is nothing more to say as the board dont believe that.

[oldtype]

 

I understand your point, but I just don't agree with it.

 

Life is too short for staying in a job in which you are unhappy. There's more to life than football and making your piss poor bosses happy.

 

(You're argument about relegation is kneejerk to the extreme)

 

Hindu, you simply cannot argue for that.  Take it this way, no matter how "justified" you think KK's resignation was,

to do it either "3 months earlier" or "3 months later" would make things a lot better.

 

 

The only difference would be be if it was 3 months earlier (and how do we know the problems for which he resigned were even happening then).

 

Bear in mind that WHENEVER he decided to resign (as I said earlier) there would be the same public protests, the same poor communication from the club, the same lack of professionalism from the club, the same quirky owner who seems all to quick to want to get out.....

 

It wouldn't be in the middle of the season.

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

I love how Hinud just ignores the arguments he can't give valid responses to.

[oldtype]

 

I understand your point, but I just don't agree with it.

 

Life is too short for staying in a job in which you are unhappy. There's more to life than football and making your piss poor bosses happy.

 

(You're argument about relegation is kneejerk to the extreme)

 

Hindu, you simply cannot argue for that.  Take it this way, no matter how "justified" you think KK's resignation was,

to do it either "3 months earlier" or "3 months later" would make things a lot better.

 

 

The only difference would be be if it was 3 months earlier (and how do we know the problems for which he resigned were even happening then).

 

Bear in mind that WHENEVER he decided to resign (as I said earlier) there would be the same public protests, the same poor communication from the club, the same lack of professionalism from the club, the same quirky owner who seems all to quick to want to get out.....

 

It wouldn't be in the middle of the season.

 

Why?

 

[Ronaldo]

Keegan's culpability starting to shine through, he also subscribed to the N'zogbia at LB idea in addition to sanctioning the Faye move and suggesting Taylor and Colo 'could be our pairing for 5 years'

 

madness

 

Who says he sanctioned the Faye move?

 

And the N'Zogbia thing is strange, because neither Big Sam, Keegan or Hughton fancy Enrique.

 

well Big Sam and Hughton are cunts. Keegan should know better but didn't

 

Keegan strongly implied that he was happy for Faye to go to Stoke and for Taylor to be a starting CB. Sheer stupdity

[oldtype]

Keegan's culpability starting to shine through, he also subscribed to the N'zogbia at LB idea in addition to sanctioning the Faye move and suggesting Taylor and Colo 'could be our pairing for 5 years'

 

madness

 

Who says he sanctioned the Faye move?

 

And the N'Zogbia thing is strange, because neither Big Sam, Keegan or Hughton fancy Enrique.

 

well Big Sam and Hughton are c***s. Keegan should know better but didn't

 

Keegan strongly implied that he was happy for Faye to go to Stoke and for Taylor to be a starting CB. Sheer stupdity

 

Never mind the fact that apparently one of the reasons he left was because he didn't want to sell Alan Smith...

[oldtype]

 

I understand your point, but I just don't agree with it.

 

Life is too short for staying in a job in which you are unhappy. There's more to life than football and making your piss poor bosses happy.

 

(You're argument about relegation is kneejerk to the extreme)

 

Hindu, you simply cannot argue for that.  Take it this way, no matter how "justified" you think KK's resignation was,

to do it either "3 months earlier" or "3 months later" would make things a lot better.

 

 

The only difference would be be if it was 3 months earlier (and how do we know the problems for which he resigned were even happening then).

 

Bear in mind that WHENEVER he decided to resign (as I said earlier) there would be the same public protests, the same poor communication from the club, the same lack of professionalism from the club, the same quirky owner who seems all to quick to want to get out.....

 

It wouldn't be in the middle of the season.

 

Why?

 

 

I seriously don't understand what point your making. If you mean because of the transfer window then all of the protests and all of my points are still valid. Why would it be any different?

 

:doh:

[Ronaldo]

Keegan's culpability starting to shine through, he also subscribed to the N'zogbia at LB idea in addition to sanctioning the Faye move and suggesting Taylor and Colo 'could be our pairing for 5 years'

 

madness

 

Who says he sanctioned the Faye move?

 

And the N'Zogbia thing is strange, because neither Big Sam, Keegan or Hughton fancy Enrique.

 

well Big Sam and Hughton are c***s. Keegan should know better but didn't

 

Keegan strongly implied that he was happy for Faye to go to Stoke and for Taylor to be a starting CB. Sheer stupdity

 

He also implied he was happy for Milner to leave. Do you believe that too?

 

shut up man. He said Milner was the last player he wanted to sell

[tmonkey]

We should have gone for Martin Jol.