A Holding Midfield Player. What does this Mean?

[Lotus]

If you can find a player who's good enough in midfield to defend and attack, great at both like Gerrard or Essien then you buy him.

 

If you can't find or afford such a player you get someone who's good at some of it, either attacking or defending.

 

There's plenty of players out there who can do either, pick 2 who the management believe will blend well and are affordable and buy them.

 

Bob's your uncle.

[matta]

Does it mean someone whose legs have gone, and can no longer run box to box, in which case we are well served with personnel for this important role.

 

Mikel at Chelsea defines the role for me really

[wacko]

I'd define a holding midfielder as a sweeper who stands in front of the defence.

 

Hamann was a boss holding midfielder for us.

 

Essien is a sensational player. Like Gerrard minus the goals and ego, plus discipline and intelligence.

 

Gerrard's too undisciplined to be a great holding midfielder, but Essien could do it easily. Be a waste of a much more versatile player, though.

[Gallowgate Toon]

If we had another decent CB i'd have Colo there tbh excellent reader of the game and a decent passer of the ball.

[Guest s0ftcore]

A good holding midfielder also turns a mediocre defence into a good one.Slip Owen Hargreaves/Mascherano/Torsten Frings into Butt's position and our back 4 improves markedly.

 

very true, was the same case when we had batty, he complimented barton/bez/peacock/albert quite well i think. made the so called shaky defence a lot more solid

 

I just couldn't but noticed that a really solid DM sometimes drops so deep he's playing like an extra centreback.

 

I play in that position there for my team and the main instruction I got from the boss was "don't lose the ball just play it simple".

 

It's strange that our "DM" can't even do that

 

At the moment, we don't even have much of a shield in front of our defence. Nicky Butt runs up loses possession and strolls back while Guthrie is in 6s and 7s.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

I'd define a holding midfielder as a sweeper who stands in front of the defence.

 

Hamann was a boss holding midfielder for us.

 

Essien is a sensational player. Like Gerrard minus the goals and ego, plus discipline and intelligence.

 

Gerrard's too undisciplined to be a great holding midfielder, but Essien could do it easily. Be a waste of a much more versatile player, though.

Essien has been surprisingly bad in the holding role actually. He has a real hard time staying in position and leaves the defence stranded at times. Both him and Lassana Diarra failed at the DM for Chelsea because of this. (Even now, Diarra is not really a holding player). It just goes to show that the holding role requires more than just physical attributes (Something people should learn before deploying the likes of Amdy Faye there). It requires very good intelligence as well as the ability to read the game and follow tactical instructions. If you look at Maka, he is not a great tackler and to be honest, he is rather short and rather slow. But he always seems to where the ball is or needs to go.

[wacko]

I'd define a holding midfielder as a sweeper who stands in front of the defence.

 

Hamann was a boss holding midfielder for us.

 

Essien is a sensational player. Like Gerrard minus the goals and ego, plus discipline and intelligence.

 

Gerrard's too undisciplined to be a great holding midfielder, but Essien could do it easily. Be a waste of a much more versatile player, though.

Essien has been surprisingly bad in the holding role actually. He has a real hard time staying in position and leaves the defence stranded at times. Both him and Lassana Diarra failed at the DM for Chelsea because of this. (Even now, Diarra is not really a holding player). It just goes to show that the holding role requires more than just physical attributes (Something people should learn before deploying the likes of Amdy Faye there). It requires very good intelligence as well as the ability to read the game and follow tactical instructions. If you look at Maka, he is not a great tackler and to be honest, he is rather short and rather slow. But he always seems to where the ball is or needs to go.

Same goes for Hamann, I'd say. Like Makelele, always standing in exactly the right place. Do you think Essien just lacks practice, or will never have the reading of the game to play there?

[Guest]

Arguably the best we've had in the role in recent years, is probably Acuna. Energetic, good tackler, decent passer, but still wasn't afraid to support the attack and got a few goals. Never understood why Speed was preferred to him for so long.

[Guest Stephen927]

With someone like Ignacio Gonzalez playing Attacking Midfielder, we would need a holding midfielder behind him due to his lack of pace and I presume lack of defensive qualities. With someone like Barton or Guthrie then you don't need a holding midfielder as the pair of them are pretty decent all rounders and would be more suited to going from box to box, carrying out defensive and offensive duties.

 

I'm not a huge fan of the holding midfielder I have to say.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

I'd define a holding midfielder as a sweeper who stands in front of the defence.

 

Hamann was a boss holding midfielder for us.

 

Essien is a sensational player. Like Gerrard minus the goals and ego, plus discipline and intelligence.

 

Gerrard's too undisciplined to be a great holding midfielder, but Essien could do it easily. Be a waste of a much more versatile player, though.

Essien has been surprisingly bad in the holding role actually. He has a real hard time staying in position and leaves the defence stranded at times. Both him and Lassana Diarra failed at the DM for Chelsea because of this. (Even now, Diarra is not really a holding player). It just goes to show that the holding role requires more than just physical attributes (Something people should learn before deploying the likes of Amdy Faye there). It requires very good intelligence as well as the ability to read the game and follow tactical instructions. If you look at Maka, he is not a great tackler and to be honest, he is rather short and rather slow. But he always seems to where the ball is or needs to go.

Same goes for Hamann, I'd say. Like Makelele, always standing in exactly the right place. Do you think Essien just lacks practice, or will never have the reading of the game to play there?

I don't think it's in him really. His game is too phrenetic. He wants to do everything. And he tries to. This a problem in that role. If you look at Chelsea they always deploy Mikel Obi (or Maka last year) at DM even when Essien is fit because he is very cool on the ball. In essence he can be a security blanket and constant outlet. Essien is not this. His game will always be closer to Gerrard's or even Barton's than Mascherano, Mikel, or Makalele.

[Guest s0ftcore]

Essein's a terrific rightback though! I always used to wonder about Parker playing there when we had Carr

[fredbob]

A DM  is important becasue it's the first defence against counter attacking football. Having 2 over commited box to box mids isnt ideal if possession is lost.

[Doug]

My argument is that at the top level it should be possible to employ players who are allrounders, ie tenacious tacklers as well as creative passers and dribblers who can defend and attack at pace and with good engines also. Any player in my side would have to tick all those boxes to play in the engine room of midfield.

We seem to make a virtue out of dour defensive players who may manage to win a 50-50 but who are like rabbits caught in the headlights if the ball is played in to them and they are asked to actually do something creative with it.

Gutierez is the only one we have with a trick and the heart to match any of the top teams. 

When you look at the players in the top sides they are packed with players of this calibre who can ghost past an opponent with ease, who are supremely fit as well.

I think our best 11 would scrape us through to survival but the days are long gone when you can get by on the same 11 players week in week out.

[Mick]

Arguably the best we've had in the role in recent years, is probably Acuna. Energetic, good tackler, decent passer, but still wasn't afraid to support the attack and got a few goals. Never understood why Speed was preferred to him for so long.

 

Agreed, he was a great little player, he seemed to Love playing against Leeds.

[wacko]

Essein's a terrific rightback though! I always used to wonder about Parker playing there when we had Carr

 

So is Gerrard. I guess standout box-to-box midfielder = fantastic fullback.

 

A DM  is important becasue it's the first defence against counter attacking football. Having 2 over commited box to box mids isnt ideal if possession is lost.

 

We usually play with 2 DMs.

[Guest s0ftcore]

Essein's a terrific rightback though! I always used to wonder about Parker playing there when we had Carr

 

So is Gerrard. I guess standout box-to-box midfielder = fantastic fullback.

 

Problem is, he thinks too highly of himself to be playing at rightback. He wants play to go through him, he wants to be spraying passes to the wingers, he wants to shoot from distance... sometimes I wonder if he forgets if football is a team game.

 

I wish fantastic fullback would also = standout box to box midfielder

 

That means we could play Beye there!

[Guest]

Didn't Souness once pick Carr there at Old Trafford?

[Guest Jawesome]

Didn't Souness once pick Carr there at Old Trafford?

 

Aye, and he had a good game as well.

[wacko]

Essein's a terrific rightback though! I always used to wonder about Parker playing there when we had Carr

 

So is Gerrard. I guess standout box-to-box midfielder = fantastic fullback.

 

Problem is, he thinks too highly of himself to be playing at rightback. He wants play to go through him, he wants to be spraying passes to the wingers, he wants to shoot from distance... sometimes I wonder if he forgets if football is a team game.

 

I wish fantastic fullback would also = standout box to box midfielder

 

That means we could play Beye there!

Lol. Dani Alves for the Balon d'Or.

 

Agree totally about Gerrard. His ego is a massive, massive problem. He'll fight for the team, but won't make sacrifices for it (like Essien playing fullback for long stretches). Try that with Gerrard, and he'd kick up a huge stink, maybe even hand in a transfer request in fairly short order.

[The Prophet]

Some interesting points in this thread. I think the defensive midfielder has become more common in recent years as football has become more tactical due to the money involved. I wouldn't give the position a text book mould because you get different types of player who play in that position.

 

Obviously the bread and butter job of a defensive midfielder is to sit in front of the defence and break up the opposition attacks. He remains disciplined and takes a bit of pressure of the defence. However I think this position has evolved in recent years. You now have players play in that position to receive the ball from the back four and dictate play, take Pirlo for example. He never really gets out of his own half due to his defensive duties but his footballing brain and long range distribution are a fantastic asset for launching attacks. You also get defensive midfielders who remain defensive but still get forward. By this I mean they don't just sit in front of the defence all game. They remain there when under attack or during slow build up but when the pressure is off and their team is comfortable they will venture up and join the attack. The most recent example I can think for this is Gilberto Silva.

 

I don't think a defensive midfielder is essential. It would be pointless someone like Derby in last year's campaign having a someone in this role when they were shipping goals for fun anyway, they may as well have another player contributing to the attack. However there's no doubt this position has become more common of late, especially in the Premier League. I think some of this has to do with the emergence of Makelele at Chelsea and what a fantastic job he did, but I think the main reason is money.

 

When you see two top sides play now the first half is usually like a chess game. Neither team want to risk going a goal down early on so they stick a lad in front of the back four for a bit of extra protection. This is due to the high stakes in these games which is born out of the fact that winning them and achieving long term success increases revenue. Now this sounds far fetched but think about how tactical the game has become in recent years, attacking midfielders, defensive midfielders, the increased reliance on full backs have all emerged as teams have tried to evolve and become more successful because that's where the money is. As one team attempts it and succeeds other teams will follow.

 

I'm not sure where this leaves the box-to-box midfielder, put it this way if you want to play that position you have to be very good at it. You can see the consequences of playing the position badly by watching Scott Parker and his spell here. Whenever he sat in front of the back four, fine. As soon as he had his action man cap on it all went to pot, his midfield partner didn't know whether he was on his head or his arse, was he defending? Was he attacking? And there were pockets of space all over the park because of this. So I do think the box-to-box midfielder can work but it has to be played in the correct system where the individual is given a lisence to play this role knowing his team mates will be positioned to cover any gaps he leaves free and knowing his positioning will not affect the shape of the team (See Gerrard at Liverpool).

 

So yeah the defensive midfielder is becoming more popular rightly or wrongly and there are many pros and cons to having one but I don't think they are essential. However with the multi-million pounds being pumped into the game and managers becoming more cautious as a knock on effect I think they're here to stay for some time yet. This also applies to the box-to-box midfilder. As formations become more diciplined the need to fill a particular role in the team will become more crucial which spells troube for a position that improves football matches (from a viewing perspective) when it is played in the right manner.

[colinmk]

Senna from Villareal is outstanding imo. Has all the qualities you want from a defensive midfielder but when he is in the opposition half he has a great eye for a pass and gets a fair amount of goals.

[Tooj]

Senna from Villareal is outstanding imo. Has all the qualities you want from a defensive midfielder but when he is in the opposition half he has a great eye for a pass and gets a fair amount of goals.

 

Quality player like.

[Tsunami]

You should only need a holding midfield player if you are playing a diamond 4 in midfield and where your wide players are largely attack minded. They will be the link player from back to front. In a flat 4 across the park both central midfielders should be able to capable of attacking and holding as the link between defence and attack.

 

Souness I remember tried playing Parker in the holding role of a diamond and played someone wholly unsuitable (can't remember who) in the creative role. It said everything about Souness. Our squad doesn't have the quality of player to make this system work. You could try Guthrie in the holding role with Barton advanced but it doesn't really suit either.

 

For this to work properly you need quality players otherwise the system can be torn apart and you lose midfield completely. When it works you can play through a flat midfield 4 and Chelsea/ Liverpool have shown how good it can be.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

You should only need a holding midfield player if you are playing a diamond 4 in midfield and where your wide players are largely attack minded. They will be the link player from back to front. In a flat 4 across the park both central midfielders should be able to capable of attacking and holding as the link between defence and attack.

 

Souness I remember tried playing Parker in the holding role of a diamond and played someone wholly unsuitable (can't remember who) in the creative role. It said everything about Souness. Our squad doesn't have the quality of player to make this system work. You could try Guthrie in the holding role with Barton advanced but it doesn't really suit either.

 

For this to work properly you need quality players otherwise the system can be torn apart and you lose midfield completely. When it works you can play through a flat midfield 4 and Chelsea/ Liverpool have shown how good it can be.

Chelsea don't play a diamond though. They play with a 1 DM, 1 Cm, and 1 AM.

[Guest]

Senna from Villareal is outstanding imo. Has all the qualities you want from a defensive midfielder but when he is in the opposition half he has a great eye for a pass and gets a fair amount of goals.

 

Quality player like.

 

Yeah, excellent player. P*ssed me off during the Euro's when the media over here were having a go at Aragones for not playing Fabregas from the start, when Senna, Iniesta & Xavi are all better.