So who makes way for Owen?

[Beezeri]

I have no idea what Shola's doing to get such a praise...but his effect is clearly starting to kick in for the fans just as it did for Kinnear

 

Maybe he score goals even by accident but what has happened to the stumbling bambi image? He's just so frustrating to watch!

[Dave]

I have no idea what Shola's doing to get such a praise...but his effect is clearly starting to kick in for the fans just as it did for Kinnear

 

Maybe he score goals even by accident but what has happened to the stumbling bambi image? He's just so frustrating to watch!

 

He's no goal threat, everyone knows that. I think it's more the fact that results are turning our way that makes me for one want to keep things as they are.

[TRon]

I have no idea what Shola's doing to get such a praise...but his effect is clearly starting to kick in for the fans just as it did for Kinnear

 

Maybe he score goals even by accident but what has happened to the stumbling bambi image? He's just so frustrating to watch!

 

It was nice to see Martin Laursson getting rattled and knocked about for a change. Usually he has our centre forwards in his pocket all night.

[ChezGiven]

None of the long balls we are playing at the moment would stick if we played Owen. Prefer to play him if we play a style that suits him i.e. on the deck and / or using the flanks to get decent crosses in. Punting it wont work with Owen/Martins up top.

[Skirge]

Sorry but no one should be dropped, maybe at home go with all three of them but Owen on from the bench is all he can exspect. Won't happen mind JK does not want to lose him so he will play.

[Rich]

Have to keep it the same after that second half last night, surely?

 

Owen will be just as useful from the bench, if needs be. Terrible message to send if one of Oba/Shola gets dropped on recent form.

 

Knowing us, one will get injured anyway meaning there'll be no decision to make.

[merlin]

He's the best striker at the club(and one of the best in the Prem at taking chances) - if he's PROPERLY fit, he will play ; simple as....

 

The accent is on the word PROPERLY..if so, NUFC are not endowed with such an embarrassment of riches up front that they can keep him out.

 

Many of those who 'wouldn't bring him back yet' are the first to want Given back in the side when he has been out injured, even if Harper has done nothing wrong, on the basis that they think 'he's the best keeper at the club'...the same logic should apply to Owen.

[Parky]

I wouldn't make any changes. Shola and Martins have been effective, and it's important that the players get the message that if they play well, they keep their place.

 

I certainly wouldn't change the formation to bring in Owen, because the players need to develop a better understanding and confidence in one another. There's a good balance to the team going forward at the moment, and we can actually get better.

 

I'd go along with this. To begin with bring Owen on around the 70th min when Shola visibly looks fucked. I'm old skool in the sense if it's working don't change it.

[Guest Stephen927]

Neither Shola nor Oba deserve to be dropped and I don't think we should change the system just to accomodate Michael Owen when we have won 2 games on the bounce, and have 2 more crucial must win games ahead of us.

 

I don't think a combination of Owen and Martins would work at all. Both relish playing off a big man, especially Owen when he's playing up front. To put Owen into this side it has to be with Ameobi but that begs the question what has Martins done to be dropped?

 

Owen should be used from the bench if at all until injuries or form starts to drop.

[Yorkie]

I wouldn't drop either of them at the moment, i'd give Owen half an hour against Fulham. However, when both fully match fit and ready to go - Martins and Owen are two players you must have in the team.

 

I don't think going back to the 4-3-3/4-3-1-2, whatever you wanna call it, is an option. That was Keegan's thing and it won't come back. We've got a nice little thing going on with Duff and Jonas (even though Duff has little to no end product)... they both play well together and they contribute to a pretty dynamic wing system. They work well with the forwards ot it remains 4-4-2 for me.

 

Ultimately i'd drop Shola for Owen. As someone else said, if Butt and Barton are going to be a deep-lying pair (i don't have a massive problem with that), then you're going to need someone specifically with pace in the side, who can charge at players on the counter. Martins isn't great at beating his man but he still pushes defenses back. We'd lose that if it was an Owen/Shola partnership.

 

Owen/Oba long-term. But i'd keep it the same atm for Fulham.

[Optimistic Nut]

You know for a fact though, as soon as Ameobi has a bad game, people will be having a go at Kinnear.

[Guest rebel_yell12]

Does anybody honestly think Michael Owen -- club captain and frankly, the best and most recognised outfield player at the club -- will be kept out of the side?  How many captains are coming on from the bench when fit?  Kinnear either has to man up and announce that Owen isn't captain any longer, or he will have to find a place for him.  One good performance doesn't negate Owen's several very good performances earlier in the season, nor the fact that Owen is simply a superior footballer to the other options (yes, I include Martins, though that at least deserves comparison).  Against Fulham, depending on the injury, I can see limiting Owen's playing time, but some of the conclusions reached on this board are knee-jerk of the highest order after the great result yesterday.  The problem is, particularly with Ameobi but also with Martins, is that the strikers on the pitch last night are very unpredictable.  One good match can be followed by another good match, or three poor ones. 

 

I don't see why, if Ameobi is suddenly so wonderful (it won't last with him, will it?) the team can't manage to accommodate three strikers.  It worked last season, and I don't understand the "that was a Keegan thing" argument.  A working system can only work for one manager?  Personally, I think a 4-3-3 with this season's squad could be more effective -- assuming Ameobi can manage Viduka's place to some degree of proficiency.  Personally, I thought Owen was at his best in that role.  Jonas is a definite improvement on Geremi on the right.  Duff and Barton fight for the left, with Butt and Guthrie for the middle "holding" position.  I don't think Newcastle are in a luxurious enough position that they can seriously contemplate sidelining a player of Owen's calibre.  It'd be madness to bench the captain, and a 1 in 2 goalscorer, and someone ostensibly the club (and fans?) want to sign a new contract. 

[Baggio]

Does anybody honestly think Michael Owen -- club captain and frankly, the best and most recognised outfield player at the club -- will be kept out of the side?  How many captains are coming on from the bench when fit?  Kinnear either has to man up and announce that Owen isn't captain any longer, or he will have to find a place for him.  One good performance doesn't negate Owen's several very good performances earlier in the season, nor the fact that Owen is simply a superior footballer to the other options (yes, I include Martins, though that at least deserves comparison).  Against Fulham, depending on the injury, I can see limiting Owen's playing time, but some of the conclusions reached on this board are knee-jerk of the highest order after the great result yesterday.  The problem is, particularly with Ameobi but also with Martins, is that the strikers on the pitch last night are very unpredictable.  One good match can be followed by another good match, or three poor ones. 

 

I don't see why, if Ameobi is suddenly so wonderful (it won't last with him, will it?) the team can't manage to accommodate three strikers.  It worked last season, and I don't understand the "that was a Keegan thing" argument.  A working system can only work for one manager?  Personally, I think a 4-3-3 with this season's squad could be more effective -- assuming Ameobi can manage Viduka's place to some degree of proficiency.  Personally, I thought Owen was at his best in that role.  Jonas is a definite improvement on Geremi on the right.  Duff and Barton fight for the left, with Butt and Guthrie for the middle "holding" position.  I don't think Newcastle are in a luxurious enough position that they can seriously contemplate sidelining a player of Owen's calibre.  It'd be madness to bench the captain, and a 1 in 2 goalscorer, and someone ostensibly the club (and fans?) want to sign a new contract. 

 

Don't cry.

[ElDiablo]

Questionable if he'll be fit enough to last a game anyway. Give him 30 mins.

[fredbob]

If Kinnear has any brass about him he'll use all 3. Shola is a poor mans Viduka at best and each strikers weakness is another ones strength, basically between them they have the roles of the front 2 covered. Would have Guthrie, Barton and Jonas in the mid.

 

I'd go as far as saying i wouldnt begrudge Kinnear if he used that line up and he lost.

[Yorkie]

Rebel_yell... did you watch the game against Aston Villa? I'm not being arsey asking that; just wondering. Because the main thing for me that got us a victory was the team chemistry and the teamwork. The togetherness was what won us the game; Duff and Jonas linking on the wing. Butt and Barton sitting deep with Martins being used to counter. The wing-backs knowing when to push up and stay back. Everyone knew their place and knew exactly what everyone else was doing.

 

Continuity wins you football matches. Look at any run of form we've had in the last couple of years in the Premiership (lets face it, we tend to not have that many runs of good form). It's always when we've got a consistent eleven, or atleast a consistent system/attack criteria.

 

Changing the system again is asking for trouble, and we can't afford to do that - just to accommodate one player. I know, it's Michael Owen and he's top quality, but we've just won two games on the bounce. He doesn't warrant being straight back in the team now, because other players are there on merit. I'd give him half an hour against Fulham, if the situation calls for it.

 

Thinking long-term, too. He's not going to be our Captain for much longer; he's not going to be our player for much longer. We all know that. If we can find a way of winning and scoring goals without him now, then it'll help us a great deal in the future.

 

Oba/Shola it remains for me, at the moment.

[Guest rebel_yell12]

Yorkie-Geordie -- I actually didn't, for the sake of full disclosure.  It being a very busy time of the semester (I have 36 exams to mark this week and 20 books to review by 5 Dec) I am missing much football    Although, I think that because I didn't see it, I'm less likely to be swayed by the peaks of emotion after a great win. 

 

That said, and I'm not "crying" or whatever just being logical, it seems unlikely the club captain would be dropped.  If Kinnear takes the armband off Owen, then I'd say it looks more likely but as is, the supposedly "permanent" captain of any club isn't a bench player, is he?  I don't see that anywhere, in England or abroad.  Hence my statement about Kinnear needing to state that Owen is no longer captain if he's going to bench him, or Owen will be back in the XI.  That's just how I see it happening.  Ignore that it's Owen and NUFC.  The captain of Club X is coming back from injury.  Is he going to stay a bench player, if fit, or be back on the pitch? 

 

Two weeks ago, Shola Ameobi was crap on this board.  He'd been crap on this board for months, maybe even years.  Now, after two decent performances, people are calling for Owen to be dropped in his favor.  Michael Owen, that lad who has scored around 1 in 2 for every club he's played for, and his country, for the last ten seasons.  If that isn't kneejerk, I don't know what is.  Perhaps I am too logical, I've been accused of that multiple times before (including on the "would you take 17th right now" thread).  I just know that the same people calling for Owen to be cut out now will be bleating for his return the moment Shola or Oba don't have a blinder and expecting him to be loyal, etc., to the club and fans.  Where's the loyalty to him?  A month ago, he was MotM nearly every match for Newcastle in some truly abysmal performances.  At the close of last season, he was on fine form and a major part of the relative success then enjoyed.  He was Newcastle's "hero".  Now, because of one good performance (and one almost-decent one) he's a nothing?  Not even fit to get in the XI?  I don't understand that conclusion.  Not at all.  It just doesn't compute for me.  But then, I am a ridiculously unemotional person.  Perhaps that is my problem.

 

Why not change to accommodate one top-quality player? A winning side was changed to accommodate Shay Given (one player) in the past.  The side was changed to accommodate Gutierrez (one player).  Same with Barton (one player).  And Beye.  And Enrique.  Why not Owen?  Why is Michael Owen held to some weird other standard that I can't quite comprehend?  Why is he not worthy of accommodation, despite easily being one of the best eleven at the club, but those others are?  If it weren't Owen, I'd think the same.  No matter who is coming back in, it's "one player" being accommodated.  I was all for bringing Enrique back in, though I quite like Bassong, who performed quite well I'm given to understand.  Same with Given for Harper.  I think the "team chemistry" can be/is built in training which means that on Monday it was right not to include Owen who had little time in full training before that match.  For future matches, that shouldn't be a problem and therefore it seems just as likely that the team can work ever-so-hard to accommodate the club's best player who also happens, until further notice at least, to be the club captain.  Why wait until the team has dropped three points unnecessarily to bring Owen back into the fold?

 

At this point, I almost hope Owen leaves at the next window (even if it means someplace like Everton).  I'm that sick of the knee-jerk reactions.  That way, in February when Newcastle have Martins & Ameobi & Xisco & Smith as the strikers....  Just what you all seem to want.  Be careful what you wish for, mates.  One mostly consistently decent striker in the lot.

 

Then I remember I actually like Newcastle United, and most of the fans, so I can't really hope that.  God, I need a pint.

[thewellander]

Either Shola makes way or nobody does. I don't see a formation change, because things have been more-or-less working for us lately.

 

Personally, I would play the same team on the weekend, and feel good knowing that Owen is on the bench in case we need him late on.

[Karjala]

Shola

[Guest Jawesome]

Shocking on Shola if it's him.  I can't see Owen or Oba doing what he's done over the past couple of games (spesh villa) therefore we'll need to change our game plan regardless.

[oldtype]

Kinnear's tactics simply don't work without Shola Ameoheskey up front to knock down those balls forward and create space for the small striker partnering him.

 

Shola is now undroppable. (OMFG I can't believe I just typed that.  )

 

It's either a straight swap for Martins (very harsh on Oba,) or changing to a 4-3-3 and dropping Duff (harsh on Duff + why change a winning tactic.)

 

In the end I really don't think Owen can come back in to the starting lineup for now. Rather have him coming off the bench until we inevitably pick up another injury or Oba hits a cold streak. (which will probably happen sooner rather than later given his inconsistency)

[Gallowgate Toon]

Kinnear's tactics simply don't work without Shola Ameoheskey up front to knock down those balls forward and create space for the small striker partnering him.

 

Shola is now undroppable. (OMFG I can't believe I just typed that.  )

 

It's either a straight swap for Martins (very harsh on Oba,) or changing to a 4-3-3 and dropping Duff (harsh on Duff + why change a winning tactic.)

 

In the end I really don't think Owen can come back in to the starting lineup for now. Rather have him coming off the bench until we inevitably pick up another injury or Oba hits a cold streak. (which will probably happen sooner rather than later given his inconsistency)

Only thing that'll knock Oba's confidence now is if Kinnear goes and we start from scratch again.  If Oba's confident then he'll be much more consistent but being an emotional player imo he is sketchier than the average player. Funny thing is, if Oba was at a really stable club he'd be ten times the player he is atm, he'd be so much more confident and i reckon banging them in on a consistent basis.

[oldtype]

Oba should probably play ahead of Owen anyway solely based on the fact that he'll probably be at this club for a while. Owen is nailed-on to leave in the Summer or even before that.

 

It make sense from a long-term perspective to keep developing Oba at Owen's expense even if in the abstract Owen is a better footballer.

[Guest The Libertine]

ameobi every time. martins is a 15 goal a season striker and owen has 5 goals already in a very under performing team. put him into an improving team and he'll just simply score more.

[TRon]

As long as any player is earning their right to the shirt, no way do they deserve to lose it if they've played a part in the revival.