Anyone think we've progressed in the past 2 and a half years?

[Unbelievable]

Team to play Birmingham

Given

Carr

Moore

Bramble

Babayaro

Solano

Faye

Pattison

N'Zogbia

Ameobi

Chopra

 

Perhaps as way of proper comparison you'd like to post a team from today's squad without 7 first team midfielders and 2 best strikers (Bowyer, Dyer, Emre, Parker, Jenas, Luque, Milner, Shearer, Owen from that squad iirc)

 

I don't think Jenas was there then.

 

Yup, you're right. I edited, but too late. Only 6 injuries in midfield.

 

It is a ridiculous comparison. Our best first team in 2006-2007 would have looked like this:

 

Given

Solano

Taylor

Moore

Babayaro

Dyer

Parker

Emre

N'Zogbia

Martins

Owen

 

We would have the following alternatives:

 

Harper, Krul

Carr

Bramble, Edgar, Ramage

Onyewu, Huntington

Bernard

Duff

Butt

Milner, Patisson

Luque

Sibierski, Ameobi

Rossi, Carroll

 

Source: http://www.nufc.com/html/2006-07html/app-goals.html

 

That is not a bad squad, and the first team you have selected there was in an extreme injury crisis. In context, as UV says, what team would we be able to field if we would have to do without: Collocini (Taylor was out as well), Jonas, Butt, Barton, Duff, N'Zogbia, Guthrie, Owen and Martins? The defence would be considerably stronger than it was back then, but we wouldn't look thrilling by any means:

 

Given

Beye Taylor Bassong Enrique

Geremi LuaLua Smith Gonzalez

Ameobi Xisco

 

you do it on purpose dont you man, f*** off

 

Heh?

[Rebellious]

Team wise we may have progressed but so has the whole Premier league.  As a competitive force not at all, just steadily got worse.

 

Goals against for example

 

05-06  42

06-07 47

07-08 65 !!!

08-09 18 and we have not played Arsenal away, Man Utd at sjp, Chelsea home and away.

[Wullie]

Team wise we may have progressed but so has the whole Premier league.  As a competitive force not at all, just steadily got worse.

 

Goals against for example

 

05-06  42

06-07 47

07-08 65 !!!

08-09 18 and we have not played Arsenal away, Man Utd at sjp, Chelsea home and away.

 

We have played at the Emirates.

[1878]

Every team has better individuals than they did a few years ago. The standard has got higher as the money has gone up.

[Rebellious]

Team wise we may have progressed but so has the whole Premier league.  As a competitive force not at all, just steadily got worse.

 

Goals against for example

 

05-06  42

06-07 47

07-08 65 !!!

08-09 18 and we have not played Arsenal away, Man Utd at sjp, Chelsea home and away.

 

We have played at the Emirates.

 

I meant at home, i`ve been smoking.

[thewellander]

Team to play Birmingham

Given

Carr

Moore

Bramble

Babayaro

Solano

Faye

Pattison

N'Zogbia

Ameobi

Chopra

 

Perhaps as way of proper comparison you'd like to post a team from today's squad without 7 first team midfielders and 2 best strikers (Bowyer, Dyer, Emre, Parker, Jenas, Luque, Milner, Shearer, Owen from that squad iirc)

 

I don't think Jenas was there then.

 

Yup, you're right. I edited, but too late. Only 6 injuries in midfield.

 

It is a ridiculous comparison. Our best first team in 2006-2007 would have looked like this:

 

Given

Solano

Taylor

Moore

Babayaro

Dyer

Parker

Emre

N'Zogbia

Martins

Owen

 

We would have the following alternatives:

 

Harper, Krul

Carr

Bramble, Edgar, Ramage

Onyewu, Huntington

Bernard

Duff

Butt

Milner, Patisson

Luque

Sibierski, Ameobi

Rossi, Carroll

 

Source: http://www.nufc.com/html/2006-07html/app-goals.html

 

That is not a bad squad, and the first team you have selected there was in an extreme injury crisis. In context, as UV says, what team would we be able to field if we would have to do without: Collocini (Taylor was out as well), Jonas, Butt, Barton, Duff, N'Zogbia, Guthrie, Owen and Martins? The defence would be considerably stronger than it was back then, but we wouldn't look thrilling by any means:

 

Given

Beye Taylor Bassong Enrique

Geremi LuaLua Smith Gonzalez

Ameobi Xisco

 

To be fair, part of the reason why one could argue we've progressed is because we've rid ourselves of the injury prone players who should have made up our first team squad two years ago but couldn't stay fit long enough to make an impact. And yes, I say that realizing that we still have injury problems today, but even if Dyer and Parker were better midfielders than Guthrie and Barton, at least (as it stands) our current lads are a bit younger and more likely to stay fit for a duration.

 

Your point is well taken, though, and I admit that based on results, it's pretty damn hard to suggest that we've improved at all.

[Tsunami]

Silly thread, the club has gone backwards, other clubs have improved their squads far more than any improvement we may have made. Off the field we are in the midst of an unbelievable mess. We will survive but let's not kid ourselves that things aren't that bad.

 

Posting a team from a few years ago that looks shite now doesn't tell the whole story. That team against Brum was put out through circumstance. Consider the team below:

 

Newcastle United: 1-Shay Given, 12-Andy Griffin, 5-Andy O'Brien, 19-Titus Bramble, 35-Olivier Bernard; 4-Nolberto Solano, 7-Jermaine Jenas, 11-Gary Speed, 32-Laurent Robert; 9-Alan Shearer, 10-Craig Bellamy

 

How much better is that team than now?

 

 

[TRon]

Silly thread, the club has gone backwards, other clubs have improved their squads far more than any improvement we may have made. Off the field we are in the midst of an unbelievable mess. We will survive but let's not kid ourselves that things aren't that bad.

 

Posting a team from a few years ago that looks shite now doesn't tell the whole story. That team against Brum was put out through circumstance. Consider the team below:

 

Newcastle United: 1-Shay Given, 12-Andy Griffin, 5-Andy O'Brien, 19-Titus Bramble, 35-Olivier Bernard; 4-Nolberto Solano, 7-Jermaine Jenas, 11-Gary Speed, 32-Laurent Robert; 9-Alan Shearer, 10-Craig Bellamy

 

How much better is that team than now?

 

 

 

That team was from the Bobby Robson era, a legendary manager who was sacked for his efforts and replaced by Souness.

[Tsunami]

Silly thread, the club has gone backwards, other clubs have improved their squads far more than any improvement we may have made. Off the field we are in the midst of an unbelievable mess. We will survive but let's not kid ourselves that things aren't that bad.

 

Posting a team from a few years ago that looks s**** now doesn't tell the whole story. That team against Brum was put out through circumstance. Consider the team below:

 

Newcastle United: 1-Shay Given, 12-Andy Griffin, 5-Andy O'Brien, 19-Titus Bramble, 35-Olivier Bernard; 4-Nolberto Solano, 7-Jermaine Jenas, 11-Gary Speed, 32-Laurent Robert; 9-Alan Shearer, 10-Craig Bellamy

 

How much better is that team than now?

 

 

 

That team was from the Bobby Robson era, a legendary manager who was sacked for his efforts and replaced by Souness.

 

But if you look at it against say: Given, Beye, Taylor, Colo, Enrique, Duff, Butt, Barton, Guiterrez, Owen & Martins how many on here would pick the current team to win?

[fredbob]

4 years ago we were easily the 5th best squad in england, since then we've gone backwards, i think finally we're at a stand still and have a squad which is probably equal to the one SBR left, in the mean time other teams have strengthened equalling our strength and some teams have even surpassed us.

 

Its a shame that effectivley we've writ off 4 years of progress and have given up any financial advantage we may of have. Shame.

 

[Karjala]

we were shite 2 and a half years ago, and are shite now. League table doesnt lie and all that.

[TRon]

Silly thread, the club has gone backwards, other clubs have improved their squads far more than any improvement we may have made. Off the field we are in the midst of an unbelievable mess. We will survive but let's not kid ourselves that things aren't that bad.

 

Posting a team from a few years ago that looks s**** now doesn't tell the whole story. That team against Brum was put out through circumstance. Consider the team below:

 

Newcastle United: 1-Shay Given, 12-Andy Griffin, 5-Andy O'Brien, 19-Titus Bramble, 35-Olivier Bernard; 4-Nolberto Solano, 7-Jermaine Jenas, 11-Gary Speed, 32-Laurent Robert; 9-Alan Shearer, 10-Craig Bellamy

 

How much better is that team than now?

 

 

 

That team was from the Bobby Robson era, a legendary manager who was sacked for his efforts and replaced by Souness.

 

But if you look at it against say: Given, Beye, Taylor, Colo, Enrique, Duff, Butt, Barton, Guiterrez, Owen & Martins how many on here would pick the current team to win?

 

I don't really understand what is your point? Robson built a very good side I agree. He was sacked by Freddie Shepherd after consistently finishing in Europe. Are you saying Freddie Shepherd took us backwards by sacking SBR and bringing in Souness?

 

 

[Incognito]

Silly thread, the club has gone backwards, other clubs have improved their squads far more than any improvement we may have made. Off the field we are in the midst of an unbelievable mess. We will survive but let's not kid ourselves that things aren't that bad.

 

Posting a team from a few years ago that looks s**** now doesn't tell the whole story. That team against Brum was put out through circumstance. Consider the team below:

 

Newcastle United: 1-Shay Given, 12-Andy Griffin, 5-Andy O'Brien, 19-Titus Bramble, 35-Olivier Bernard; 4-Nolberto Solano, 7-Jermaine Jenas, 11-Gary Speed, 32-Laurent Robert; 9-Alan Shearer, 10-Craig Bellamy

 

How much better is that team than now?

 

 

 

That team was from the Bobby Robson era, a legendary manager who was sacked for his efforts and replaced by Souness.

 

But if you look at it against say: Given, Beye, Taylor, Colo, Enrique, Duff, Butt, Barton, Guiterrez, Owen & Martins how many on here would pick the current team to win?

 

I don't really understand what is your point? Robson built a very good side I agree. He was sacked by Freddie Shepherd after consistently finishing in Europe. Are you saying Freddie Shepherd took us backwards by sacking SBR and bringing in Souness?

 

 

 

I think a blind man on a galloping horse could see that we've gone back since Sir Bobby.

[Guest Heneage]

But see unless we elevated Sir Bob to a Ferguson esq role it would never work. One thing I loved about Sir Bob was his ability to spot and take talent, obviously at PSV he brought through Ronaldo and Rudd arguably two of the best strikers of the last 10 years the latter still banging em in for fun.

 

Players like Bernard and Robert were prime examples, Robert was not the full polished winger as he rarely tracked back like Jonas, but he was a tremendous attacking threat, him and Bernard were in my opinion the best left side in the league and the Cole and Yorke of the left wing they understood each other so well. Even Bernard he took him and made him a great left back. He was in a sense like a keegan or vice versa in the sense both can get the best out of players, using Shearer and Bellamy was a master stroke and watching the days of Dyer Solano Bellamy Shearer really gets me as I think just how great we were, Newcastle United scoring twice in the San Siro for christ sake!

 

Personally if I had my way, I'd never have sacked Sir Bobby (Easy in hindsight but I was never happy when he left) but keep him in, then get a younger manager to work along-side by younger I mean mid 40-s, around Zola-ish age possibly Shearer, then when Robson was unable to continue or it felt right move him upstairs into the dreaded "Director of Football" more in the sense of having less duties, helping the new guy with advice and scouting players for the future. Someone like him will never lose the eye for talent.

[Tsunami]

Silly thread, the club has gone backwards, other clubs have improved their squads far more than any improvement we may have made. Off the field we are in the midst of an unbelievable mess. We will survive but let's not kid ourselves that things aren't that bad.

 

Posting a team from a few years ago that looks s**** now doesn't tell the whole story. That team against Brum was put out through circumstance. Consider the team below:

 

Newcastle United: 1-Shay Given, 12-Andy Griffin, 5-Andy O'Brien, 19-Titus Bramble, 35-Olivier Bernard; 4-Nolberto Solano, 7-Jermaine Jenas, 11-Gary Speed, 32-Laurent Robert; 9-Alan Shearer, 10-Craig Bellamy

 

How much better is that team than now?

 

 

 

That team was from the Bobby Robson era, a legendary manager who was sacked for his efforts and replaced by Souness.

 

But if you look at it against say: Given, Beye, Taylor, Colo, Enrique, Duff, Butt, Barton, Guiterrez, Owen & Martins how many on here would pick the current team to win?

 

I don't really understand what is your point? Robson built a very good side I agree. He was sacked by Freddie Shepherd after consistently finishing in Europe. Are you saying Freddie Shepherd took us backwards by sacking SBR and bringing in Souness?

 

 

 

Some posts on here continue to say we've made progress and that MA may have been hard done by. That's all bull shit. The line up I mentioned is the one that out played Inter in the San Siro, it had pace, purpose & threatened goals. Yet if you look at the likes of O'Brien, Bramble & possibly others I have no doubt that some would argue that our present "best" 11 would beat them.

 

As for the sacking of SBR; from that point FS did take us backwards, rapidly. The whole sacking of SBR was ridiculous; he should have left pre-season or at the end of the season. I haven't looked at those opening fixtures of that campaign but I remember 1st game we drew 2-2 at 'boro when JFH punched the ball in in injury time & I think we lost at home to Spurs (?) when we absolutely hammered them. After 4 games we had played very well without much luck & SBR got the boot - disgraceful.

[Guest sicko2ndbest]

Our 2nd string side would probably beat that lot

 

Harper

Geremi Cacapa Edgar Kadar

Gonzalez Guthrie Smith Zog

Xisco Ranger

 

 

[Unbelievable]

Our 2nd string side would probably beat that lot

 

Harper

Geremi Cacapa Edgar Kadar

Gonzalez Guthrie Smith Zog

Xisco Ranger

 

 

 

What makes you think that while our first string side is sitting "comfortably" just above the relegation zone?

[Thespence]

Every team has better individuals than they did a few years ago. The standard has got higher as the money has gone up.

 

Dont say that man your killing some positive spin.

[thomas]

Our 2nd string side would probably beat that lot

 

Harper

Geremi Cacapa Edgar Kadar

Gonzalez Guthrie Smith Zog

Xisco Ranger

 

 

 

What makes you think that while our first string side is sitting "comfortably" just above the relegation zone?

Because, while normally a damn good indicator, the league position of a side who's spent half the year rudderless and in turmoil may not tell the whole story of a teams strength. 

 

I think, and would hope many would agree, that we're a better side than 14th. 

 

Besides, it's hardly as though that league position was accomplished with our first string side available for all the games.  If it was you might have had a point.

[Rich]

Our 2nd string side would probably beat that lot

 

Harper

Geremi Cacapa Edgar Kadar

Gonzalez Guthrie Smith Zog

Xisco Ranger

 

 

 

What makes you think that while our first string side is sitting "comfortably" just above the relegation zone?

 

Because we've had loads of injuries and just come through one of the most unstable periods in our recent history?

 

It's just as easy to say we're a couple of points from being 9th, with a game in hand.

[Tsunami]

Our 2nd string side would probably beat that lot

 

Harper

Geremi Cacapa Edgar Kadar

Gonzalez Guthrie Smith Zog

Xisco Ranger

 

 

 

You were being sarcastic? Please say yes.

[The Prophet]

It's already been said, silly thread. By the opening post I take it we're discussing the team on the field.

 

You can't compare two different teams from two different generations. Times have changed, the weaker teams are now stronger, the stronger teams are even stronger not to mention the problems off the park. Can you honestly tell me Sir Bob's team would be doing any better than the current crop? I doubt it. Same goes for the current side. Would they have finished third five years ago? Again it's very difficult to say.

 

There's no argument to be had here, just speculation.

[Rich]

It's already been said, silly thread. By the opening post I take it we're discussing the team on the field.

 

You can't compare two different teams from two different generations. Times have changed, the weaker teams are now stronger, the stronger teams are even stronger not to mention the problems off the park. Can you honestly tell me Sir Bob's team would be doing any better than the current crop? I doubt it. Same goes for the current side. Would they have finished third five years ago? Again it's very difficult to say.

 

There's no argument to be had here, just speculation.

 

Whilst all that is undoubtedly true, it's not the way I've taken the thread personally.

 

There have been people saying we've gone back 20 years over the past few months, that it's been the worst period in our recent history (I bet some mongs have even just said "history") despite the fact that we've had loads of injury problems allied to everything else. Yes the Keegan stuff has been the straw which seems to have broken a fair few thousand camel's backs after years of frustration, but as far as the playing squad goes and the infrastructure within the club goes (talking Academy/Reserves/First Team squad here), things aren't as bad as they've been made out to be, despite all the shite that's gone on outside of that.

 

Hopefully more than anything it's shown people just how much a manager - sometimes any manager - can influence a certain set of players and get them playing above themselves/to the best of their ability.  It's not as simple a game as some like to make out, not by a long chalk.

[The Prophet]

It's already been said, silly thread. By the opening post I take it we're discussing the team on the field.

 

You can't compare two different teams from two different generations. Times have changed, the weaker teams are now stronger, the stronger teams are even stronger not to mention the problems off the park. Can you honestly tell me Sir Bob's team would be doing any better than the current crop? I doubt it. Same goes for the current side. Would they have finished third five years ago? Again it's very difficult to say.

 

There's no argument to be had here, just speculation.

 

Whilst all that is undoubtedly true, it's not the way I've taken the thread personally.

 

There have been people saying we've gone back 20 years over the past few months, that it's been the worst period in our recent history (I bet some mongs have even just said "history") despite the fact that we've had loads of injury problems allied to everything else. Yes the Keegan stuff has been the straw which seems to have broken a fair few thousand camel's backs after years of frustration, but as far as the playing squad goes and the infrastructure within the club goes (talking Academy/Reserves/First Team squad here), things aren't as bad as they've been made out to be, despite all the s**** that's gone on outside of that.

 

Hopefully more than anything it's shown people just how much a manager - sometimes any manager - can influence a certain set of players and get them playing above themselves/to the best of their ability.  It's not as simple a game as some like to make out, not by a long chalk.

 

Oh I agree things have been blown out all of all proportion, that's why we're sat here with an owner wanting to sell up and a interim manager.

 

As for your second point it comes down to that old cliche really: "the game isn't played on paper"

[Unbelievable]

It's already been said, silly thread. By the opening post I take it we're discussing the team on the field.

 

You can't compare two different teams from two different generations. Times have changed, the weaker teams are now stronger, the stronger teams are even stronger not to mention the problems off the park. Can you honestly tell me Sir Bob's team would be doing any better than the current crop? I doubt it. Same goes for the current side. Would they have finished third five years ago? Again it's very difficult to say.

 

There's no argument to be had here, just speculation.

 

Whilst all that is undoubtedly true, it's not the way I've taken the thread personally.

 

There have been people saying we've gone back 20 years over the past few months, that it's been the worst period in our recent history (I bet some mongs have even just said "history") despite the fact that we've had loads of injury problems allied to everything else. Yes the Keegan stuff has been the straw which seems to have broken a fair few thousand camel's backs after years of frustration, but as far as the playing squad goes and the infrastructure within the club goes (talking Academy/Reserves/First Team squad here), things aren't as bad as they've been made out to be, despite all the s**** that's gone on outside of that.

 

Hopefully more than anything it's shown people just how much a manager - sometimes any manager - can influence a certain set of players and get them playing above themselves/to the best of their ability.  It's not as simple a game as some like to make out, not by a long chalk.

 

I must have missed that.. Any quotes you could point me to?