Tachikoma Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 What a shit game to watch. Why does Martins always have to be one to be taken off? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfmag Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 If we're gonna have a wing combo of Jonas and Zog, which i believe we should, then Geremi needs to be on the pitch imo. Neither of those two are particularly good crossers of the ball, nor are our wing-backs. Geremi is someone who can deliver and we need to balance pace and byline-running with genuine delivery. That said, if Jonas continues to be ineffectual down the right then we really ought to switch it again and put him on the left. If that means Geremi being the right-winger then fair enough, but Jonas is someone you build your team around so we need to utilise him to the best of his ability. At the moment, that doesn't look like it's gonna come from down the right. Watching it, I really thought he was the best player on the pitch, apart from bloody Downing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 The performance demonstrates the limitations of the players, not the limitations of the manager. Taking off Oba, his only debatable decision, didn't exactly gift them the point did it? We weren't playing well in the second half prior to that point. I'm happy with the options in defence, but it's clear the squad needs some work. I thought Guthrie, Butt & Zoggy did admirable, fairly competent jobs today, but that isn't good enough as a first choice. Not in this league. Disagree there to some extent. The only genuine weakness represented in the side today was in centre-midfield, from a positive point of view anyway. Zog and Jonas didn't contribute loads but they still beat their men and pushed the side forward. I have absolutely no idea what tactic was deployed for Owen and i think we'd probably have nicked it if Oba had remained on the pitch with Viduka. Owen might as well have not been on the pitch today. I'd be interested to see how many times he touched the ball, because he certainly didn't get any chances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/83855981.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193003A50471BAAE0D59F8222780BDABAD1E30A760B0D811297 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicago_shearer Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 next week: arsenal vs wigan blackburn vs liverpool man utd vs sunderland bolton vs chelsea big weekend for us, and we have to beat stoke. west hams next 3 games are liverpool, spurs and chelsea too Didn't realize that. Massive set of fixtures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley17 Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Garth Crooks just said Roy Keane looked "very very impotent" Erm..? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Viduka has lost a fair bit of his jowels, like, and despite the massive amount of time out still looked like the only one capable of scoring when he came on (although it was easy to see he wasn't at all sharp). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Think we would have won that with Barton in the side. I really want to see 433 now Viduka's back, we're always going to be leaving an important player out up front if we go 442. Unfortunately can't see it happening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempuki Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 A good away point really but we have to beat the Potters next week. Still, the mackem result was enjoyable! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempuki Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Garth Crooks just said Roy Keane looked "very very impotent" Erm..? A relief for his dogs..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garth Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 I can't my head around the decision taking Martins off, is Joe trying to appease Owen just to get him to sign the new contract?. Thought our defence was immense again, no way should Taylor get back in ahead of Bassong. I didn't think Enrique was that bad he had a couple of horrors, true!, but he did a lot of good things also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicago_shearer Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 The performance demonstrates the limitations of the players, not the limitations of the manager. Taking off Oba, his only debatable decision, didn't exactly gift them the point did it? We weren't playing well in the second half prior to that point. I'm happy with the options in defence, but it's clear the squad needs some work. I thought Guthrie, Butt & Zoggy did admirable, fairly competent jobs today, but that isn't good enough as a first choice. Not in this league. Disagree there to some extent. The only genuine weakness represented in the side today was in centre-midfield, from a positive point of view anyway. Zog and Jonas didn't contribute loads but they still beat their men and pushed the side forward. I have absolutely no idea what tactic was deployed for Owen and i think we'd probably have nicked it if Oba had remained on the pitch with Viduka. Owen might as well have not been on the pitch today. I'd be interested to see how many times he touched the ball, because he certainly didn't get any chances. First and foremost I'd blame Owen for his poor game today, then Kinnear for keeping him on instead of Oba (although to be fair, Owen set up Viduka for our best chance of the match late on). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 The performance demonstrates the limitations of the players, not the limitations of the manager. Taking off Oba, his only debatable decision, didn't exactly gift them the point did it? We weren't playing well in the second half prior to that point. I'm happy with the options in defence, but it's clear the squad needs some work. I thought Guthrie, Butt & Zoggy did admirable, fairly competent jobs today, but that isn't good enough as a first choice. Not in this league. Disagree there to some extent. The only genuine weakness represented in the side today was in centre-midfield, from a positive point of view anyway. Zog and Jonas didn't contribute loads but they still beat their men and pushed the side forward. I have absolutely no idea what tactic was deployed for Owen and i think we'd probably have nicked it if Oba had remained on the pitch with Viduka. Owen might as well have not been on the pitch today. I'd be interested to see how many times he touched the ball, because he certainly didn't get any chances. Absolutely, and tbh i'm not going to slate Owen himself. Kevin Keegan proved that when you play a top class player in the right way, you have exactly that - a top class player. Kinnear did today exactly what Roeder and Allardyce did with Owen. Fitted him in simply because of who he is, rather than built the team around him. You either focus the lionshare of your tactics on Michael Owen or you don't play him tbh. Cos otherwise, like i say, all you're doing then is 'fitting him in', and it's pointless. As we've seen. If we're gonna continue having him in the team then we'll have to change it around, otherwise i'd go Oba/Viduka. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 If we're gonna have a wing combo of Jonas and Zog, which i believe we should, then Geremi needs to be on the pitch imo. Neither of those two are particularly good crossers of the ball, nor are our wing-backs. Geremi is someone who can deliver and we need to balance pace and byline-running with genuine delivery. That said, if Jonas continues to be ineffectual down the right then we really ought to switch it again and put him on the left. If that means Geremi being the right-winger then fair enough, but Jonas is someone you build your team around so we need to utilise him to the best of his ability. At the moment, that doesn't look like it's gonna come from down the right. Watching it, I really thought he was the best player on the pitch, apart from bloody Downing. didn't think he was any better than zog tbh, i thought both did well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 My take on the game was that Given and the defence played really well, Enrique really does need to take passing lessons as it's letting him down and puts us under pressure. Butt and Guthrie are too alike and when played together don't offer what we need as they are both fairly static and rarely if ever make a killing pass. I thought both wingers did well without actually creating too much but I'm not too sure how much our forwards were at fault for that. Martins looked the most likely to do anything of our front two who started and I can't work out why he came off and Owen remained on the pitch unless Kinnear thought he'd done so little it would be like having a fresh player on anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LucaAltieri Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Credit where it's due, I thought Butt had a decent game today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Can't really complain at that, dissapointing we couldnt find the net, but a point is all we deserved today and its a point that could very well come in handy down the road. For me Bassong MOM closely followed by Guthrie for the second week in a row. Given 7 - Had little to do but was fantastic whenever called into action, fantastic in the air under nasty conditions Beye 6 - Solid enough, didnt get forward enough for me, he and Jonas arent clicking regularly yet. Colo 7 - Pretty solid and calm all the way through, although had two slips or moments of madness. Bassong 8 - What a player this guy is turning out to be, although we have seen it before with youngsters coming in, does he get ground down or does he make the step up, if its the latter we will at worst see a lot of money coming our way from a bigger club. Enrique 4.5 - not convinced, head isnt in the game and the little good he does do he throws away with moments of madness, lapses of concentration or just woeful decision making, I hope he stays with us but we need a better LB for him to learn from, the talent is there if he can buckle down and master it. Jonas 6 - Was never really unleashed, matter of time before the majority of the board is ripping him to shreds for having no end product or vision to shoot. Works so hard, was running rings around boro players in the first half. Will benefit with Vidukas return. Butt 6 - A decent showing more than not his passes were good, improving on his normal extremes of sublime ball followed by a shocker. Battled hard and like Jonas, shockingly ran rings round some boro players on more than one occasion. Guthrie 7.5 - This guy has a huge upside, the execution isnt quite there at times but he had another massive game, the game time will be improving him with each minute, will be interesting to see how his position is defined over the next couple of years. N'Zog 6 - Some shocking balls in the first half, but worked very hard got a little more space in the second and looked more of a threat, was lively did he do enough to hoist Duff out of the team for next week? ask JFK on that one. Owen 5 - Mr Anonymous, not to say he didnt work hard, but had little to feed off should have been taken off for Viduka. Martins 6 - Lively, caused problems, could have done better at times but was our biggest threat infront of goal. Right to be upset when taken off, his contribution was as big as anyones, would have caused more problems than MO did alongside Viduka. Viduka 5 - certainly added when he came on, will be a huge addition if we can keep him fit. JFK 7 - Worth an 8, docked a point for subbing Martins, stuck with last weeks team as well as he could, defence is in great shape. I can see his gamble with Martins, MO is more clinical if he gets a chance however Oba looked more dangerous and worked harder. A point and cleansheet is a decent result, if we can do this away and pick up points at home we will be in much better shape. Shame the results around us havent helped us (again). Ref had a good game overall too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 i think the cm's did well defensively. the defense wasn't under too much pressure all game, which has been a big problem all season. they wern't too bad offensively either tbh. the only thing that let us down today imo was the shooting of nzog, martins and viduka, owen's obscurity and some poor final balls. (and a bit of luck). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfmag Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Can't really complain at that, dissapointing we couldnt find the net, but a point is all we deserved today and its a point that could very well come in handy down the road. For me Bassong MOM closely followed by Guthrie for the second week in a row. Given 7 - Had little to do but was fantastic whenever called into action, fantastic in the air under nasty conditions Beye 6 - Solid enough, didnt get forward enough for me, he and Jonas arent clicking regularly yet. Colo 7 - Pretty solid and calm all the way through, although had two slips or moments of madness. Bassong 8 - What a player this guy is turning out to be, although we have seen it before with youngsters coming in, does he get ground down or does he make the step up, if its the latter we will at worst see a lot of money coming our way from a bigger club. Enrique 4.5 - not convinced, head isnt in the game and the little good he does do he throws away with moments of madness, lapses of concentration or just woeful decision making, I hope he stays with us but we need a better LB for him to learn from, the talent is there if he can buckle down and master it. Jonas 6 - Was never really unleashed, matter of time before the majority of the board is ripping him to shreds for having no end product or vision to shoot. Works so hard, was running rings around boro players in the first half. Will benefit with Vidukas return. Butt 6 - A decent showing more than not his passes were good, improving on his normal extremes of sublime ball followed by a shocker. Battled hard and like Jonas, shockingly ran rings round some boro players on more than one occasion. Guthrie 7.5 - This guy has a huge upside, the execution isnt quite there at times but he had another massive game, the game time will be improving him with each minute, will be interesting to see how his position is defined over the next couple of years. N'Zog 6 - Some shocking balls in the first half, but worked very hard got a little more space in the second and looked more of a threat, was lively did he do enough to hoist Duff out of the team for next week? ask JFK on that one. Owen 5 - Mr Anonymous, not to say he didnt work hard, but had little to feed off should have been taken off for Viduka. Martins 6 - Lively, caused problems, could have done better at times but was our biggest threat infront of goal. Right to be upset when taken off, his contribution was as big as anyones, would have caused more problems than MO did alongside Viduka. Viduka 5 - certainly added when he came on, will be a huge addition if we can keep him fit. JFK 7 - Worth an 8, docked a point for subbing Martins, stuck with last weeks team as well as he could, defence is in great shape. I can see his gamble with Martins, MO is more clinical if he gets a chance however Oba looked more dangerous and worked harder. A point and cleansheet is a decent result, if we can do this away and pick up points at home we will be in much better shape. Shame the results around us havent helped us (again). Ref had a good game overall too. I agree. Granted, there are times when you would like to see him come out more, but when he does his catching or punching are invariably faultless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Given 7 Enrique 4 Beye 6 (Downing MOTM imo) Colo 7 Bassong 8 Gurthrie 6 Butt 6 Zog 5 Jonas 8 Martins 7 - Like Kinnear but that was a terrible decision taking him off Owen - 6 - no service Viduka - 5 Jonas 8, Zog 5 - which game did you watch? He probably saw the whole game Still I'd agree they shouldn't be that far apart, they had pretty similar performances really. Enrique worried me at times today, seemed to struggle defensively and gave the ball away a fair bit. To be fair to him he only really started to struggle once the fog rolled in on his corner of the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Good result, what's really let us down is the Wigan game. Had we not thrown two points away there we'd have taken five from the last three games which would a point above my expectations, as it is we've taken a point less then I expected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Bolton, Fulham, Wigan occupying 7th, 8th and 9th. Mental. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Replace Butt with a Patrick Vierra type of midfielder and we'd do very well, and yes I know, that type of player doesn't grow on trees. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfmag Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Given 7 Enrique 4 Beye 6 (Downing MOTM imo) Colo 7 Bassong 8 Gurthrie 6 Butt 6 Zog 5 Jonas 8 Martins 7 - Like Kinnear but that was a terrible decision taking him off Owen - 6 - no service Viduka - 5 Jonas 8, Zog 5 - which game did you watch? He probably saw the whole game Still I'd agree they shouldn't be that far apart, they had pretty similar performances really. Enrique worried me at times today, seemed to struggle defensively and gave the ball away a fair bit. To be fair to him he only really started to struggle once the fog rolled in on his corner of the pitch. Just my opinion but I would stand by those marks and I saw the whole game. Zog is a liability on far more occasions than he is an asset, He loses the ball time and time again, whereas Jonas beats his man more often, particulalry in tight spaces, virtually never gives the ball away and tracks back better. Zog can only beat a man where he has space and can use his pace. The one time he did this well today, he hit a very weak shot, when a pass to Owen would have led to a goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Bolton, Fulham, Wigan occupying 7th, 8th and 9th. Mental. Just shows you how a few wins can transform the season. Reason for hope. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now