Newcastle United 2 - 2 Stoke City - 06/12/08 - Post match reaction from page 16

[ElDiablo]

worrying feeling.... actually i felt i can accept being relegated now!

 

We've been here before. We're going nowhere.

 

Yep, short memories. We'll be fine.

 

Really wish you'd fuck off with this condescending bullshit Diablo. Short memories of what? I remember last season perfectly.

 

Dalglish and Gullit left within a few weeks of the respective new seasons. We were close-ish to relegation under Souness, but we were five points away from the drop-zone with a few months to go. Roeder, we were never really in danger - i never really understood this big sigh of relief when we won at Sheffield United. We were miles away from going down. Last season we were potentially going down - that's the closest we've been until now, but we had Kevin Keegan and pulled ourselves away.

 

This season, we're a few points off bottom of the table at Christmas times, with a shitty run of fixtures in the New Year. With Joe Kinnear.

 

We're perilously close to relegation, man.

 

Why should I? Like I said if we hang on which was looking more and more likely and the time ran out would there be the same inquest into Kinnear's subs, his tactics? Course not. We concede a goal from A SET PIECE, and suddenly he's the fucking anti-christ. It gets to me more than anything I've ever read on here, kneekjerk doesn't do it anywhere near justice.

 

We were in a worse position under Allardyce and say what you like, we could have easily gone down under KK imo. But we're not even at Christmas yet, picking up points (that should have been three points today, yes), scoring goals and looking reasonable tight at the back. What with the premiership table as it is now too it's pretty fucking obvious to me that we've been much deeper shit not even 8 months ago. Yet i'm reading this 'omg, we r so going down' which gets an airing every time a result doesn't go out way. We'll put in a Villa like performance soon and everything will be rosy again.

 

Perilously close to relegation, good cunting grief.

 

Sorry but I think your on another planet mate..  The way you talk about the game everything was going fine until we leaked a fluke goal and now Kinnear is being made a scapegoat.  We invited pressure on to ourselves for the entire of the second half and to me it was always a matter of when the Stoke goals would come, not if.  Contrary to the rosy picture your painting we looked more and more desperate and likely to concede as time ran out.  This is not a case of everything going ok with an unlucky goal at the end, this is a case of a manager making 3 completely inept substitutions, each of them piling more and more pressure on the side, and being inevitably punished for it.

 

I'm not saying he should be exempt from criticism, as he deserves quite a bit. My original point was under the circumstances we should be a little more grateful that we're at least in touch with teams above us and not adrift at the bottom which we would be now if noone had come in for Hughton. I understand the frustration of today but I think it's a testament to Kinnear in a way that we're at least in a position to fuck up losing a game, however bizarre that may sound.

 

I think he gets caught in two minds whether to to defend what he's got or to try and kill the game off as we don't seem to try to do either and as a result look vulnerable. If we set up the last 15 mins like we did against Chelsea, although not pretty, we don't concede against Stoke's attack, no way. He just needs to be a bit more clear as to what he wants from the team. *Yes I'm, veering off the point.

[TRon]

For Christ sake, if everthing post half time is Kinnear's fault, then following the same logic, he sderserves for the way he set up the team in the first half and the way they played. Oh, and following the same logic. presumably Kinnear is reponsible for Guthrie's injury. I'm as disappointed as everyone else witht he second half display but get some bloody perspective (unbeaten in four) and give Kinnear some bloody credit. Even Southgate of the smogs said today that we are far better organised since his arrival.

 

Well done, Joe. You can put two wingers and two strikers on the field, and make them play as two wingers and two strikers against the mighty Stoke. Bravo.

 

Kinnear had so many better options to replace Guthrie. He could have shifted Colo there or moved Zog into the centre as he's played there before. Putting Beye into midfield was a disastrous decision at the end of the day.

[ElDiablo]

For Christ sake, if everthing post half time is Kinnear's fault, then following the same logic, he sderserves for the way he set up the team in the first half and the way they played. Oh, and following the same logic. presumably Kinnear is reponsible for Guthrie's injury. I'm as disappointed as everyone else witht he second half display but get some bloody perspective (unbeaten in four) and give Kinnear some bloody credit. Even Southgate of the smogs said today that we are far better organised since his arrival.

 

Agreed mate.

[Syrette]

Gutierrez was immense in the first half. Really was pretty much at his best at times. A joy to watch. Why do anything to change that?

[Yorkie]

Unbeaten in four? Including two draws at home to a ten-man Wigan, who had no strikers btw, and Stoke City?

 

That is no consolation whatsoever.

[Mick]

For Christ sake, if everthing post half time is Kinnear's fault, then following the same logic, he sderserves for the way he set up the team in the first half and the way they played. Oh, and following the same logic. presumably Kinnear is reponsible for Guthrie's injury. I'm as disappointed as everyone else witht he second half display but get some bloody perspective (unbeaten in four) and give Kinnear some bloody credit. Even Southgate of the smogs said today that we are far better organised since his arrival.

 

Did Kinnear have to make so many changes because of 1 injury?

 

Did Kinnear have to take off the only player who tried to attack in the 2nd half? 

 

Martins was poor for most of the game but he tried and he kept them further up the pitch.  How many times do we take Martins off only to find the oppositions defence line up on the half way line?  Viduka is never going to run from our half and score yet that's what we were expecting from him today when he came on.

[Yorkie]

Look on the bright side, we'll have Duff and Butt to change our fortunes next week with a bit of luck. And with a return of Smith just around the corner, we'll clog our way into the Championship.

[Robster]

Gutierrez was immense in the first half. Really was pretty much at his best at times. A joy to watch. Why do anything to change that?

Sadly, I wonder if he just "assumed" that Stoke wouldnt improve

[Teasy]

For Christ sake, if everthing post half time is Kinnear's fault, then following the same logic, he sderserves for the way he set up the team in the first half and the way they played. Oh, and following the same logic. presumably Kinnear is reponsible for Guthrie's injury. I'm as disappointed as everyone else witht he second half display but get some bloody perspective (unbeaten in four) and give Kinnear some bloody credit. Even Southgate of the smogs said today that we are far better organised since his arrival.

 

Well done, Joe. You can put two wingers and two strikers on the field, and make them play as two wingers and two strikers against the mighty Stoke. Bravo.

 

Kinnear had so many better options to replace Guthrie. He could have shifted Colo there or moved Zog into the centre as he's played there before. Putting Beye into midfield was a disastrous decision at the end of the day.

 

He even could have just brought on Cacapa for Guthrie, ok its not perfect but at least he'd then only have one player out of position instead of three.  He had no problem bringing Cacapa on for Geremi, seemingly for no reason, so why not for Guthrie?

[Guest michaelfoster]

Just got home from the game, first half played very well and could of scored 3 or 4, we always looked an attacking threat & Stoke could not cope with our pace down the wings (esp Griffin) & they never looked like scoring themselves.

 

2nd half Guthrie came off at half time & Taylor came on, with Taylor going to RB, Beye going RW & Jonas CM, we just totally lost our shape. Coloccini should of went CM with Taylor going to CB. Our midfield totally went missing in 2nd half & Pulis obv had a few words with the Stoke players at half time as they came out a totally different team & looked a decent threat, once they got one i knew they would score again.

 

Given - 7 Solid

Enrique - 6.5 Did quite well defensively.

Coloccini - 6.5 Played quite well for an hour

Bassong - 6.5 Did well to combat ariel thread

Beye - 6 Quiet but did his job at RB, struggled on wing in 2nd half

N'Zogbia - 6.5 Caused Griffin problems but gives the ball away far too easily

Geremi - 6 meh

Guthrie - 5.5 quiet, subbed at half time

Jonas - 7 was a threat down the wing but poor in the middle 2nd half

Martins - 6 Pace caused problems & got an assist

Owen - 6.5 Scored twice but was fairly quiet, needs to move more instead of waiting for ball to his feet

 

Taylor - 6 Did ok at RB

Viduka - 6 Won a few headers & held ball up well but didnt do much else of note.

Cacapa - N/A Not enough time to make impact

 

Kinnear - 4, Picked a decent starting XI which didnt include Ameobi, Duff or Butt however he is tactically clueless, should of kept Beye at RB, brought Taylor to CB & put Colocinni at CM, also managed to get himself sent to stands for last 5 mins

 

Thought Stoke fans were crap aswell, didnnt even bring half their allocation considering they havnt been in PL before & only sang once it got to 2-2

[Mick]

Look on the bright side, we'll have Duff and Butt to change our fortunes next week with a bit of luck. And with a return of Smith just around the corner, we'll clog our way into the Championship.

 

Our first half performance is proof that none of those should be in the first 11, having Butt on the bench would have helped in the 2nd half.

[Shak]

For Christ sake, if everthing post half time is Kinnear's fault, then following the same logic, he sderserves for the way he set up the team in the first half and the way they played. Oh, and following the same logic. presumably Kinnear is reponsible for Guthrie's injury. I'm as disappointed as everyone else witht he second half display but get some bloody perspective (unbeaten in four) and give Kinnear some bloody credit. Even Southgate of the smogs said today that we are far better organised since his arrival.

 

Agreed mate.

 

Can neither of you honestly see the danger of having a man like this in charge?

 

We show up and play as well as we have under him all season, and Stoke meanwhile aren't at the races at all? We get 2-0 up at HT, at which point he proceeds to make a change that moves 3 players into positions that they simply aren't suited to? Why change so much when things are going well? Including moving your best player in the first half into CM, where he can't play at all and never has done.

 

Either stick Cacapa in CM or move Colo there and slot Taylor in at CB. It's not that complicated, anybody with half a brain could see how ridiculous it was.

[Yorkie]

As has been said, we could've just brought Caçapa on in place of Guthrie. Aye he's not very good but it would have kept us ticking, we could've maintained our shape anyhow. And from what i can recall, he was arguably the best player for us at West Ham when he played there. But that's not really relevant.

 

What's daft is that he actually did put him in midfield towards the end of the game!

 

Joe Kinnear is confusion.

[Mick]

Given was terrible at using his box, he was more like a windmill than a keeper.

[ElDiablo]

For Christ sake, if everthing post half time is Kinnear's fault, then following the same logic, he sderserves for the way he set up the team in the first half and the way they played. Oh, and following the same logic. presumably Kinnear is reponsible for Guthrie's injury. I'm as disappointed as everyone else witht he second half display but get some bloody perspective (unbeaten in four) and give Kinnear some bloody credit. Even Southgate of the smogs said today that we are far better organised since his arrival.

 

Agreed mate.

 

Can neither of you honestly see the danger of having a man like this in charge?

 

We show up and play as well as we have under him all season, and Stoke meanwhile aren't at the races at all? We get 2-0 up at HT, at which point he proceeds to make a change that moves 3 players into positions that they simply aren't suited to? Why change so much when things are going well? Including moving your best player in the first half into CM, where he can't play at all and never has done.

 

Either stick Cacapa in CM or move Colo there and slot Taylor in at CB. It's not that complicated, anybody with half a brain could see how ridiculous it was.

 

He was wrong, only thing I can think of is not wanting to break up the CB pairing. A lot of people on here wanted Jonas in CM actually, hopefully at least that will get put to bed now.

[The Prophet]

Perilously close to relegation, good c***ing grief.

 

This is relegation form. I don't know how you can deny that. You don't throw away 2 goal leads at home to teams like Stoke and expect to get away with it.

 

Aye, but relegation candidates don't go to Stamford Bridge and keep Chelsea out for ninety minutes. I'm not sure what concerns me more, the match I've just witnessed or the reaction of the fans.

 

We played the most defensive football I've possibly ever seen us play and got lucky. On another day they'd have broken us down. The fact we drew against them is now good proof that we're not likely to be amongst those in the bottom half is it?

 

I was happy enough with a point there but I'm afraid that doesn't excuse dropped points against the likes of Stoke. We can't rely on games like the Chelsea match to keep us safe and secure.

 

I'm unsure how you've drawn so many false inferences to my initial post but I'll have a go at explaining myself.

 

We've just fucked up against Stoke City. Kinnear and the players on the pitch should be taking a long hard look at themselves right now because it was pretty big fuck up at that.

 

Does that mean we'll go down? Well if I sat here and read some of the brainless responses on here, yeah, I'd be pretty certain we were.  One result alone cannot determine a team's fate. The Chelsea result in itself shows we have enough quality to stay up, but it doesn't mean we'll stay up. The result today shows we're equally as culpable of going down but it doesn't mean we'll go down. Are you following?

 

It would be foolish at this relatively early stage in the season to start making forecasts about our outcome and yet that's what so many fans have done when there is so much football to play. The inconsistency in this team is so evident that a 2-0 defeat next week is as plausible as a 2-0 victory. We don't what the team are going to do in the next fixture and we certainly don't know what they are going to do for the remainder of the season.

 

So yeah relegation is a real possibility, I'd be an fool to deny it, but this result alone is not going to send us down. So why when I read this forum and listen to fans reaction do I get the feeling it is. It's because as per they're too busy engaging their knee rather than their brain.

[johnnypd]

As has been said, we could've just brought Caçapa on in place of Guthrie. Aye he's not very good but it would have kept us ticking, we could've maintained our shape anyhow. And from what i can recall, he was arguably the best player for us at West Ham when he played there. But that's not really relevant.

 

What's daft is that he actually did put him in midfield towards the end of the game!

 

Joe Kinnear is confusion.

 

for our one remaining central midfielder

[Decky]

Look on the bright side, we'll have Duff and Butt to change our fortunes next week with a bit of luck. And with a return of Smith just around the corner, we'll clog our way into the Championship.

 

Our first half performance is proof that none of those should be in the first 11, having Butt on the bench would have helped in the 2nd half.

 

Kinnear is a clueless twat, i guarentee you he will hail the return of Smith, totally ignorant to his history at this club. Makes me fucking sick that those 3 pricks will be starting soon again

[Taylor Swift]

Given was terrible at using his box, he was more like a windmill than a keeper.

 

That's true. Pretty weird considering he's one of the best at coming out and getting a decent punch on the ball. Today was just.. come out, jumps, whiffs at ball, waits for defender/s to clear ensuing danger.. then next cross comes in, comes out, jumps, whiffs at ball again.

[Syrette]

Perilously close to relegation, good c***ing grief.

 

This is relegation form. I don't know how you can deny that. You don't throw away 2 goal leads at home to teams like Stoke and expect to get away with it.

 

Aye, but relegation candidates don't go to Stamford Bridge and keep Chelsea out for ninety minutes. I'm not sure what concerns me more, the match I've just witnessed or the reaction of the fans.

 

We played the most defensive football I've possibly ever seen us play and got lucky. On another day they'd have broken us down. The fact we drew against them is now good proof that we're not likely to be amongst those in the bottom half is it?

 

I was happy enough with a point there but I'm afraid that doesn't excuse dropped points against the likes of Stoke. We can't rely on games like the Chelsea match to keep us safe and secure.

 

I'm unsure how you've drawn so many false inferences to my initial post but I'll have a go at explaining myself.

 

We've just fucked up against Stoke City. Kinnear and the players on the pitch should be taking a long hard look at themselves right now because it was pretty big fuck up at that.

 

Does that mean we'll go down? Well if I sat here and read some of the brainless responses on here, yeah, I'd be pretty certain we were.  One result alone cannot determine a team's fate. The Chelsea result in itself shows we have enough quality to stay up, but it doesn't mean we'll stay up. The result today shows we're equally as culpable of going down but it doesn't mean we'll go down. Are you following?

 

It would be foolish at this relatively early stage in the season to start making forecasts about our outcome and yet that's what so many fans have done when there is so much football to play. The inconsistency in this team is so evident that a 2-0 defeat next week is as plausible as a 2-0 victory. We don't what the team are going to do in the next fixture and we certainly don't know what they are going to do for the remainder of the season.

 

So yeah relegation is a real possibility, I'd be an fool to deny it, but this result alone is not going to send us down. So why when I read this forum and listen to fans reaction do I get the feeling it is. It's because as per they're too busy engaging their knee rather than their brain.

 

I don't speak for anyone else but I think the vibe is more one of us having relegation form, as opposed to us looking dead on for relegation.

 

As for your other point, you brought up the draw against Chelsea as being indicative of a result of a club not likely to struggle. Which is fair enough, that's all well and good, but we should be building on that by holding on to wins like we should have today. My point being it is the latter that'll get us in trouble. That's the problem, as I'm sure you're aware.

[Mick]

That's true. Pretty weird considering he's one of the best at coming out and getting a decent punch on the ball. Today was just.. come out, jumps, whiffs at ball, waits for defender/s to clear ensuing danger.. then next cross comes in, comes out, jumps, whiffs at ball again.

 

At the end of the first half he came out, missed the ball and injured one our own players and he was like that all game.

[The Prophet]

Perilously close to relegation, good c***ing grief.

 

This is relegation form. I don't know how you can deny that. You don't throw away 2 goal leads at home to teams like Stoke and expect to get away with it.

 

Aye, but relegation candidates don't go to Stamford Bridge and keep Chelsea out for ninety minutes. I'm not sure what concerns me more, the match I've just witnessed or the reaction of the fans.

 

We played the most defensive football I've possibly ever seen us play and got lucky. On another day they'd have broken us down. The fact we drew against them is now good proof that we're not likely to be amongst those in the bottom half is it?

 

I was happy enough with a point there but I'm afraid that doesn't excuse dropped points against the likes of Stoke. We can't rely on games like the Chelsea match to keep us safe and secure.

 

I'm unsure how you've drawn so many false inferences to my initial post but I'll have a go at explaining myself.

 

We've just f***ed up against Stoke City. Kinnear and the players on the pitch should be taking a long hard look at themselves right now because it was pretty big f*** up at that.

 

Does that mean we'll go down? Well if I sat here and read some of the brainless responses on here, yeah, I'd be pretty certain we were.  One result alone cannot determine a team's fate. The Chelsea result in itself shows we have enough quality to stay up, but it doesn't mean we'll stay up. The result today shows we're equally as culpable of going down but it doesn't mean we'll go down. Are you following?

 

It would be foolish at this relatively early stage in the season to start making forecasts about our outcome and yet that's what so many fans have done when there is so much football to play. The inconsistency in this team is so evident that a 2-0 defeat next week is as plausible as a 2-0 victory. We don't what the team are going to do in the next fixture and we certainly don't know what they are going to do for the remainder of the season.

 

So yeah relegation is a real possibility, I'd be an fool to deny it, but this result alone is not going to send us down. So why when I read this forum and listen to fans reaction do I get the feeling it is. It's because as per they're too busy engaging their knee rather than their brain.

 

I don't speak for anyone else but I think the vibe is more one of us having relegation form, as opposed to us looking dead on for relegation.

 

But that's the point, we're not. A team that gets two credible results away to Boro and Chelsea is not in relegation form. We're not in any kind of form, we vary from game to game, that's why its impossible to predict where we'll be come the end of the season.

[johnnypd]

Perilously close to relegation, good c***ing grief.

 

This is relegation form. I don't know how you can deny that. You don't throw away 2 goal leads at home to teams like Stoke and expect to get away with it.

 

Aye, but relegation candidates don't go to Stamford Bridge and keep Chelsea out for ninety minutes. I'm not sure what concerns me more, the match I've just witnessed or the reaction of the fans.

 

We played the most defensive football I've possibly ever seen us play and got lucky. On another day they'd have broken us down. The fact we drew against them is now good proof that we're not likely to be amongst those in the bottom half is it?

 

I was happy enough with a point there but I'm afraid that doesn't excuse dropped points against the likes of Stoke. We can't rely on games like the Chelsea match to keep us safe and secure.

 

I'm unsure how you've drawn so many false inferences to my initial post but I'll have a go at explaining myself.

 

We've just fucked up against Stoke City. Kinnear and the players on the pitch should be taking a long hard look at themselves right now because it was pretty big fuck up at that.

 

Does that mean we'll go down? Well if I sat here and read some of the brainless responses on here, yeah, I'd be pretty certain we were.  One result alone cannot determine a team's fate. The Chelsea result in itself shows we have enough quality to stay up, but it doesn't mean we'll stay up. The result today shows we're equally as culpable of going down but it doesn't mean we'll go down. Are you following?

 

It would be foolish at this relatively early stage in the season to start making forecasts about our outcome and yet that's what so many fans have done when there is so much football to play. The inconsistency in this team is so evident that a 2-0 defeat next week is as plausible as a 2-0 victory. We don't what the team are going to do in the next fixture and we certainly don't know what they are going to do for the remainder of the season.

 

So yeah relegation is a real possibility, I'd be an fool to deny it, but this result alone is not going to send us down. So why when I read this forum and listen to fans reaction do I get the feeling it is. It's because as per they're too busy engaging their knee rather than their brain.

 

some sense in there. but - a win at home to a stoke and a loss to chelsea is better than a draw to both. not only does it give us one more point overall, but it strips one point from a relegation rival. the results to sides like fulham, wigan and stoke are more important than how we play against chelsea for that reason, even though that was a big bonus.

 

the league is so topsy turvy and competitive this year and we're very much in the mix with everyone else. in previous seasons you can always count on one or two sides losing pace and taking up one of the spots. this season however you can go up to 12th in the table and still be back into the drop zone a week later. west brom are the only side who look appreciably worse than anyone else but i can see them beating pompey and keeping up witg everyone else. west ham look like a side dropping down the table too, but a result for them tomorrow would see them shoot up the table. what is most relevant though isnt how high a win pushes you up the positions, but how close in terms of points the bottom 3 or 4 are to you.

 

so i think we're going to be in a similar position to this up until the final couple of weeks and itll be up to how we perform at the business end of the season that determines if we stay up or go down.

[Syrette]

But that's the point, we're not. A team that gets two credible results away to Boro and Chelsea is not in relegation form. We're not in any kind of form, we vary from game to game, that's why its impossible to predict where we'll be come the end of the season.

 

Meh, fair enough. I've more or less said that today's match is one of relegation form, I've not said every match is.

[Guest SB]

Look on the bright side, we'll have Duff and Butt to change our fortunes next week with a bit of luck. And with a return of Smith just around the corner, we'll clog our way into the Championship.

 

Our first half performance is proof that none of those should be in the first 11, having Butt on the bench would have helped in the 2nd half.

 

Kinnear is a clueless twat, i guarentee you he will hail the return of Smith, totally ignorant to his history at this club. Makes me fucking sick that those 3 pricks will be starting soon again

 

Having those 2 pricks on the bench today would have helped a lot, them being injured weren't a cause of of celebration afterall  .

 

But please, JFK, ffs, don't let them start when they're back! 

 

Seriously though, what kind of idiot do not name any midfielder on the bench. Praying no one will need to come off is not a game plan. 622 trying 442 and Owen on more out and out position whilst removing everyone that actually might pass to him? WTF! WTF! Clueless twat that Joe!