Michael Owen gets injured; rejoice!

[fredbob]

I think it'll be Man City or bust Liverpool wont rate him high enough to pay his wages and i doubt he'd drop and i dont think Scolari will rate him high enough.

 

I genuinely think theres a good chance to keep him.

[UV]

League: 45 appearances out of possible 130 (10 sub) 24 goals

League Cup: 2 appearances out of possible 7 (1 sub) 2 goals

FA Cup: 3 appearances out of possible 8 (0 sub) 1 goal

 

Total: 50 out of possible 145 (11 sub) 27 goals

 

His game to goal ratio is pretty decent as he averages a goal every 2 games but he's played just over 1/3 of possible games. It works out as around 363k per game, rougly including 100k+ wages but thats before any appearance or goal bonuses.

 

IMO it would be best for both parites if he left either in january or the summer

 

I assume you took off the £10m we got from team England for breaking him for a year.

 

I'm not at all convinced he's on £100k+ before bonuses either.

[madras]

The only clubs outside the top 4 who could pay his wages are us and Man City.

has he got to have the same wages ?

 

Would he play for Pompy for 60k a week, spurs for 35k a week?

 

Would Aston Villa give him top wedge to play for them.  I doubt it, but it will be interesting January.

he'll do whichever he considers the best (taking into account carrer wise and financial)

 

i'd guess he'd rather play for man utd on £50kpw as opposed to us on £100kpw

[TRon]

I think Owen is going to wait to see what other clubs come in before signing any new deal, probably till the summer. So it's a bit pointless whingeing the club should have tied this all up by now, at least post-Keegan. Even with Keegan I'm not sure Owen would have committed unless we were really flying.

[Tooj]

I think Owen is going to wait to see what other clubs come in before signing any new deal, probably till the summer. So it's a bit pointless whingeing the club should have tied this all up by now, at least post-Keegan. Even with Keegan I'm not sure Owen would have committed unless we were really flying.

 

We would have been. 

[MW]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/n/newcastle_united/7780414.stm

 

Kinnear not confident he's staying.

[Optimistic Nut]

League: 45 appearances out of possible 130 (10 sub) 24 goals

League Cup: 2 appearances out of possible 7 (1 sub) 2 goals

FA Cup: 3 appearances out of possible 8 (0 sub) 1 goal

 

Total: 50 out of possible 145 (11 sub) 27 goals

 

His game to goal ratio is pretty decent as he averages a goal every 2 games but he's played just over 1/3 of possible games. It works out as around 363k per game, rougly including 100k+ wages but thats before any appearance or goal bonuses.

 

IMO it would be best for both parites if he left either in january or the summer

 

The stats are misleading a bit though considering about 60 league games were missed because of genuine long-term injuries which could have happened to anyone. (metatarsal at Spurs, and then the knee in Germany)

 

[Mr. Snrub]

League: 45 appearances out of possible 130 (10 sub) 24 goals

League Cup: 2 appearances out of possible 7 (1 sub) 2 goals

FA Cup: 3 appearances out of possible 8 (0 sub) 1 goal

 

Total: 50 out of possible 145 (11 sub) 27 goals

 

His game to goal ratio is pretty decent as he averages a goal every 2 games but he's played just over 1/3 of possible games. It works out as around 363k per game, rougly including 100k+ wages but thats before any appearance or goal bonuses.

 

IMO it would be best for both parites if he left either in january or the summer

 

Clown.

 

Why not add the cost of relegation to your shitty little stats, cause that's where we will end up if Owen goes next month.

 

Honeslty, he averages a goal every 1.8 matches in the league when he starts yet you still want rid. 

[Mr. Snrub]

League: 45 appearances out of possible 130 (10 sub) 24 goals

League Cup: 2 appearances out of possible 7 (1 sub) 2 goals

FA Cup: 3 appearances out of possible 8 (0 sub) 1 goal

 

Total: 50 out of possible 145 (11 sub) 27 goals

 

His game to goal ratio is pretty decent as he averages a goal every 2 games but he's played just over 1/3 of possible games. It works out as around 363k per game, rougly including 100k+ wages but thats before any appearance or goal bonuses.

 

IMO it would be best for both parites if he left either in january or the summer

 

lalalalala lol.  :-[

[tmonkey]

If he stays, then good - for now.

 

If he leaves, then meh, I think we'll replace him easily enough if we really want to.

[Taylor Swift]

League: 45 appearances out of possible 130 (10 sub) 24 goals

League Cup: 2 appearances out of possible 7 (1 sub) 2 goals

FA Cup: 3 appearances out of possible 8 (0 sub) 1 goal

 

Total: 50 out of possible 145 (11 sub) 27 goals

 

His game to goal ratio is pretty decent as he averages a goal every 2 games but he's played just over 1/3 of possible games. It works out as around 363k per game, rougly including 100k+ wages but thats before any appearance or goal bonuses.

 

IMO it would be best for both parites if he left either in january or the summer

 

Clown.

 

Why not add the cost of relegation to your shitty little stats, cause that's where we will end up if Owen goes next month.

 

Honeslty, he averages a goal every 1.8 matches in the league when he starts yet you still want rid.

 

So? I swear Oba saved us with his 11 league goals in his first season and no one mentions that when they're assessing his value to the team.

 

Owen's contribution is there for all to see, and personally, he's not been worth his transfer fee nor his 'world class' wages. I think we can do better, either through distributing his wages to other players or simply replacing him with someone younger and with potential to improve.

 

Instead of spending 100k/week on a new striker, we could simply buy two players and give them 50k/week which will improve two positions in the team. This is merely a suggestion to counter the 'who can we sign that's better than him?' and the 'we can't attract players of his quality anymore' arguments, but of course there may be better alternatives.

 

I would say that I hope he stays until the end of the season because he's needed, but after that, if he's unwilling to accept a contract that matches his contribution so far and his 'expected' contribution in the future, we should let him go. How much is a 12-15 league goals/season striker worth? Since his contribution is severely limited to just goals, we figure that out and offer it Owen. It sure as hell ain't 100k/week, though, and if we've offered that to him, we'll be financially hamstrung by his wages.

 

[Guest rebel_yell12]

League: 45 appearances out of possible 130 (10 sub) 24 goals

League Cup: 2 appearances out of possible 7 (1 sub) 2 goals

FA Cup: 3 appearances out of possible 8 (0 sub) 1 goal

 

Total: 50 out of possible 145 (11 sub) 27 goals

 

His game to goal ratio is pretty decent as he averages a goal every 2 games but he's played just over 1/3 of possible games. It works out as around 363k per game, rougly including 100k+ wages but thats before any appearance or goal bonuses.

 

IMO it would be best for both parites if he left either in january or the summer

 

Clown.

 

Why not add the cost of relegation to your shitty little stats, cause that's where we will end up if Owen goes next month.

 

Honeslty, he averages a goal every 1.8 matches in the league when he starts yet you still want rid. 

 

So? I swear Oba saved us with his 11 league goals in his first season and no one mentions that when they're assessing his value to the team.

 

Owen's contribution is there for all to see, and personally, he's not been worth his transfer fee nor his 'world class' wages. I think we can do better, either through distributing his wages to other players or simply replacing him with someone younger and with potential to improve.

 

Instead of spending 100k/week on a new striker, we could simply buy two players and give them 50k/week which will improve two positions in the team. This is merely a suggestion to counter the 'who can we sign that's better than him?' and the 'we can't attract players of his quality anymore' arguments, but of course there may be better alternatives.

 

I would say that I hope he stays until the end of the season because he's needed, but after that, if he's unwilling to accept a contract that matches his contribution so far and his 'expected' contribution in the future, we should let him go. How much is a 12-15 league goals/season striker worth? Since his contribution is severely limited to just goals, we figure that out and offer it Owen. It sure as hell ain't 100k/week, though, and if we've offered that to him, we'll be financially hamstrung by his wages.

 

 

Your maths are bad, if you're saying letting Owen go would "save" money.  Those two players would, unless they are Championship players or very young/unproven, probably run at least 7-10 mil per.  At 50k per week, that's an outlay over four years of 34-40 mil.  Keeping Owen, even on his current wages, is only 20 mil.  A 12-15 league goals per season striker (like, oh say, Peter Crouch?) is worth about 15mil+ in the current market, I should think.  So, replacing Owen would be about...12-15 mil for a conservative estimate.  Plus the wages, of I'd guess around 50k minimum (that's what your fave Oba is on, iirc), over four years is 10 mil.  That's 22-25 mil for a new player and keeping Owen is 20 mil.  How is getting rid of Owen removing the financial burden then?  Both of the options you've outlined are actually more expensive than keeping Owen. 

 

Fair enough, if you think scoring a goal every 1.8 matches isn't enough for a striker to contribute.  Everyone's entitled to an opinion, after all.  But it's enough for me.  A striker scores goals.  I don't ask Shay Given to do more than keep goals out, either (and he's a top-class keeper, no doubt).

[Unbelievable]

League: 45 appearances out of possible 130 (10 sub) 24 goals

League Cup: 2 appearances out of possible 7 (1 sub) 2 goals

FA Cup: 3 appearances out of possible 8 (0 sub) 1 goal

 

Total: 50 out of possible 145 (11 sub) 27 goals

 

His game to goal ratio is pretty decent as he averages a goal every 2 games but he's played just over 1/3 of possible games. It works out as around 363k per game, rougly including 100k+ wages but thats before any appearance or goal bonuses.

 

IMO it would be best for both parites if he left either in january or the summer

 

The stats are misleading a bit though considering about 60 league games were missed because of genuine long-term injuries which could have happened to anyone. (metatarsal at Spurs, and then the knee in Germany)

 

 

Relevance?

[Taylor Swift]

Crouch's contribution does not stop at goals. Find me another striker that is one-dimensional in the most favoured tactic in football who will earn as much as Owen is speculated to earn if he signs a new contract, and then we can talk.

 

In a team where other players can carry the burden, Owen can be valuable. In a team like ours, we are carrying him. If we had a better team which is built around Owen, then that would be fine. But we don't. And I feel that one of the things that's stopping us from building a better team overall, regardless of whether it is built around Owen or not, is the presence of Owen at the club.

 

By the way, my 'favourite' is not Oba. I'm considering what's best for the club. I just feel that Oba is sacrificed in each and every game so that Owen can stay on the pitch and the reasons that this shit happens doesn't have much to do with the players' contribution into each match. The reasons are more to do with who's captain, who's earning the most, who's the 'face' of the club, who needs to feel more 'wanted' rather than who has looked more likely to score, whose presence is needed more on the pitch and other football-related reasons. That is my main gripe.

 

Edit: If, in a specific game, Oba has looked out of it, misfiring and generally under-performing, then the decision to take him off and leave Owen on (regardless of how Owen has performed) would be justifiable, in the least. If Owen's been fantastic, then the decision would be rightly lauded. But this hasn't been the case so far under Kinnear and wasn't even when KK was manager, and so each thread descends into a Martins v Owen debate because people are trying to understand why Oba's taken off and Owen's left on.

[Dinho lad]

Haven't read this thread or anything...but am I the only one here that is questioning Owen's loyalty??

[Optimistic Nut]

League: 45 appearances out of possible 130 (10 sub) 24 goals

League Cup: 2 appearances out of possible 7 (1 sub) 2 goals

FA Cup: 3 appearances out of possible 8 (0 sub) 1 goal

 

Total: 50 out of possible 145 (11 sub) 27 goals

 

His game to goal ratio is pretty decent as he averages a goal every 2 games but he's played just over 1/3 of possible games. It works out as around 363k per game, rougly including 100k+ wages but thats before any appearance or goal bonuses.

 

IMO it would be best for both parites if he left either in january or the summer

 

The stats are misleading a bit though considering about 60 league games were missed because of genuine long-term injuries which could have happened to anyone. (metatarsal at Spurs, and then the knee in Germany)

 

 

Relevance?

 

Well the relevance is if he'd missed all those games with the old injury problems, fair enough, but you can't blame him when he's missed that amount of games for something which could have happened to any player. I wonder if Arsenal fans will slag Eduardo off for hardly playing for them.

[Optimistic Nut]

Haven't read this thread or anything...but am I the only one here that is questioning Owen's loyalty??

 

He signed a 4-year contract, it looks like he's going to have stayed for 4-years, and why should he sign a new contract in the club's current position? Nowt to do with loyalty.

[Baggio]

So tomorrow could be Owen's last game before the fans turn on him then.

[Dinho lad]

Haven't read this thread or anything...but am I the only one here that is questioning Owen's loyalty??

 

He signed a 4-year contract, it looks like he's going to have stayed for 4-years, and why should he sign a new contract in the club's current position? Nowt to do with loyalty.

 

And the amount of time he's been out during these 4 years....??

[Optimistic Nut]

Haven't read this thread or anything...but am I the only one here that is questioning Owen's loyalty??

 

He signed a 4-year contract, it looks like he's going to have stayed for 4-years, and why should he sign a new contract in the club's current position? Nowt to do with loyalty.

 

And the amount of time he's been out during these 4 years....??

 

Like I've pointed out, around 2/3s of those games were down to two freak injuries which could have knackered anyone.

 

Just out of interest was Craig Moore's loyalty questioned when he walked after 2 injury-hit seasons or it is just because this is Michael Owen?

[Baggio]

Haven't read this thread or anything...but am I the only one here that is questioning Owen's loyalty??

 

He signed a 4-year contract, it looks like he's going to have stayed for 4-years, and why should he sign a new contract in the club's current position? Nowt to do with loyalty.

 

And the amount of time he's been out during these 4 years....??

 

Like I've pointed out, around 2/3s of those games were down to two freak injuries which could have knackered anyone.

 

Just out of interest was Craig Moore's loyalty questioned when he walked after 2 injury-hit seasons or it is just because this is Michael Owen?

 

Craig Moore wasn't offered a new contract.

[Kitman]

I reckon Owen will delay and spin out contract talks until the summer, just like he did at Liverpool before he went.  And he'll be off if he can get a club that matches his ambition and wage demands.  I'm very cynical about whether we'll offer him anything like the wages he's been used to, he'll keep all his options open whilst trying not to piss off the fans.  I can't see him staying with us tbh.

[Optimistic Nut]

Fair enough. Still reckon Owen owes us nowt though.

[tmonkey]

snip

 

Your maths are bad, if you're saying letting Owen go would "save" money.  Those two players would, unless they are Championship players or very young/unproven, probably run at least 7-10 mil per.  At 50k per week, that's an outlay over four years of 34-40 mil.  Keeping Owen, even on his current wages, is only 20 mil.  A 12-15 league goals per season striker (like, oh say, Peter Crouch?) is worth about 15mil+ in the current market, I should think.  So, replacing Owen would be about...12-15 mil for a conservative estimate.  Plus the wages, of I'd guess around 50k minimum (that's what your fave Oba is on, iirc), over four years is 10 mil.  That's 22-25 mil for a new player and keeping Owen is 20 mil.  How is getting rid of Owen removing the financial burden then?  Both of the options you've outlined are actually more expensive than keeping Owen. 

 

Fair enough, if you think scoring a goal every 1.8 matches isn't enough for a striker to contribute.  Everyone's entitled to an opinion, after all.  But it's enough for me.  A striker scores goals.  I don't ask Shay Given to do more than keep goals out, either (and he's a top-class keeper, no doubt).

 

But then Owen will have no resale value by the end of his contract, and will become more immobile and over-reliant on chances being put on a plate for him as he ages. That wouldn't be the case for cheaper, younger alternatives (e.g. Frazier Campbell, Daniel Sturridge).

 

We're going to have to replace him at some point, and I really struggle to understand anyone who claims Owen is either irreplaceable, or that we'll not see someone of his "calibre" for a long time. If we're worried about replacing him now, then we may as well pack our bags up and go home, because what will have changed in 3 or 4 years time when we come round to finally having to replace him? The situation will always be the same - established stars will cost a bomb, players who look like becoming established stars will only want to sign for CL clubs, youngsters who are available won't have shown enough to suggest that they'll be top class (hence why they're available), foreign unknowns likewise present a significant gamble, etc etc. We'll be in the same boat then that we are in today. It's amusing how other teams, even s*** ones, are finding strikers who look as good as Owen if not better (e.g. Santa Cruz, Zaki, Zarate) yet when it comes to us, these players dont exist because we cant replace Michael Owen, therefore they dont exist (because we cant replace Michael Owen, therefore...).

 

Every year new talent is being introduced into the game, every year the big clubs will have to cash in on promising but not that promising youngsters who they can't accomodate into their first teams (e.g. Bentley at Arsenal), every year good but unestablished forwards will leave their clubs to play in a better league, for more money, for first team football, etc etc (think Jonas, who most of us had never seen or heard of, but a striking version). If you remove the filter "established, proven star forward, either an England international, established within the Premiership, or a household name on the international scene" in terms of looking for a replacement, then there are plenty of options to choose from - all of them admittedly having an element of risk, but then that's something that will always be present no matter who we go for. We've broken our transfer record twice for top class England international star strikers in the past dozen or so years, something you would assume would present the lowest risk and surest way of improving the team, yet both times we've neither won anything nor have we really improved as a team overall compared to before they had arrived. In fact, we'd probably have done better had we gone for alternative options (e.g. Anelka instead of Owen). So if he does leave, we should wish good luck to him to his face, say "f*** him he wasn't that good for us anyway" when he's left the room, and then go about finding a good replacement which is what I would hope we've got all those scouts for.

[Baggio]

snip

 

Your maths are bad, if you're saying letting Owen go would "save" money.  Those two players would, unless they are Championship players or very young/unproven, probably run at least 7-10 mil per.  At 50k per week, that's an outlay over four years of 34-40 mil.  Keeping Owen, even on his current wages, is only 20 mil.  A 12-15 league goals per season striker (like, oh say, Peter Crouch?) is worth about 15mil+ in the current market, I should think.  So, replacing Owen would be about...12-15 mil for a conservative estimate.  Plus the wages, of I'd guess around 50k minimum (that's what your fave Oba is on, iirc), over four years is 10 mil.  That's 22-25 mil for a new player and keeping Owen is 20 mil.  How is getting rid of Owen removing the financial burden then?  Both of the options you've outlined are actually more expensive than keeping Owen. 

 

Fair enough, if you think scoring a goal every 1.8 matches isn't enough for a striker to contribute.  Everyone's entitled to an opinion, after all.  But it's enough for me.  A striker scores goals.  I don't ask Shay Given to do more than keep goals out, either (and he's a top-class keeper, no doubt).

 

But then Owen will have no resale value by the end of his contract, and will become more immobile and over-reliant on chances being put on a plate for him as he ages. That wouldn't be the case for cheaper, younger alternatives (e.g. Frazier Campbell, Daniel Sturridge).

 

We're going to have to replace him at some point, and I really struggle to understand anyone who claims Owen is either irreplaceable, or that we'll not see someone of his "calibre" for a long time. If we're worried about replacing him now, then we may as well pack our bags up and go home, because what will have changed in 3 or 4 years time when we come round to finally having to replace him? The situation will always be the same - established stars will cost a bomb, players who look like becoming established stars will only want to sign for CL clubs, youngsters who are available won't have shown enough to suggest that they'll be top class (hence why they're available), foreign unknowns likewise present a significant gamble, etc etc. We'll be in the same boat then that we are in today. It's amusing how other teams, even s*** ones, are finding strikers who look as good as Owen if not better (e.g. Santa Cruz, Zaki, Zarate) yet when it comes to us, these players dont exist because we cant replace Michael Owen, therefore they dont exist (because we cant replace Michael Owen, therefore...).

 

Every year new talent is being introduced into the game, every year the big clubs will have to cash in on promising but not that promising youngsters who they can't accomodate into their first teams (e.g. Bentley at Arsenal), every year good but unestablished forwards will leave their clubs to play in a better league, for more money, for first team football, etc etc (think Jonas, who most of us had never seen or heard of, but a striking version). If you remove the filter "established, proven star forward, either an England international, established within the Premiership, or a household name on the international scene" in terms of looking for a replacement, then there are plenty of options to choose from - all of them admittedly having an element of risk, but then that's something that will always be present no matter who we go for. We've broken our transfer record twice for top class England international star strikers in the past dozen or so years, something you would assume would present the lowest risk and surest way of improving the team, yet both times we've neither won anything nor have we really improved as a team overall compared to before they had arrived. In fact, we'd probably have done better had we gone for alternative options (e.g. Anelka instead of Owen). So if he does leave, we should wish good luck to him to his face, say "f*** him he wasn't that good for us anyway" when he's left the room, and then go about finding a good replacement which is what I would hope we've got all those scouts for.

 

Excellent post, especially the bits I've highlighted.