The future with Shepherd

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I believe had Fat Fred stayed on, we'd have consolidated as a club with Big Sam slowly but surely turning us around during the term of his contract. To which degree I don't know, certainly not top 4 material but top 8 perhaps.

[Syrette]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/deadreflection/this-will-not-end-well-cat.jpg

[mrmojorisin75]

And no, no one is suggesting that relegation under Ashley will be excused by the shit that Shepherd left us with but if we remain in mid-table for the next few years and many people conclude that we would have done so anyway even if Shepherd had stayed, then what's the big fucking deal? If this is the case and I'm not saying it is, then our expectations with Ashley were high to begin with given the alternative scenario.

 

certain people really have forgotten, or never got at all, the feeling around supporting & watching the club from bobby leaving onwards, largely because of ashley

 

i haven't, i honestly believed we'd eventually get relegated under the old board, their ineptitude seemed to know no bounds after the robson appointment, in fact even during that when they were making the poor old fella look like a mug on the sky cameras with the rooney bid being released

 

the old board did some top stuff but people with memories know it was coming apart at the seams, with 100m+ of debt and the current credit crisis it would have taken a FUCKING good manager to get us back to the CL imo

 

I see the smoggies have released their end of year accounts, and they are 93m quid in the red, and they haven't built a stadium like we have done, nor do they have our support. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

Expect to see flak for Steve Gibson and warnings that the club may fold ?

 

 

 

i fail to see what this has to do with the topic at hand really, couldn't give monkeys about 'boro

[NE5]

And no, no one is suggesting that relegation under Ashley will be excused by the shit that Shepherd left us with but if we remain in mid-table for the next few years and many people conclude that we would have done so anyway even if Shepherd had stayed, then what's the big fucking deal? If this is the case and I'm not saying it is, then our expectations with Ashley were high to begin with given the alternative scenario.

 

certain people really have forgotten, or never got at all, the feeling around supporting & watching the club from bobby leaving onwards, largely because of ashley

 

i haven't, i honestly believed we'd eventually get relegated under the old board, their ineptitude seemed to know no bounds after the robson appointment, in fact even during that when they were making the poor old fella look like a mug on the sky cameras with the rooney bid being released

 

the old board did some top stuff but people with memories know it was coming apart at the seams, with 100m+ of debt and the current credit crisis it would have taken a FUCKING good manager to get us back to the CL imo

 

I see the smoggies have released their end of year accounts, and they are 93m quid in the red, and they haven't built a stadium like we have done, nor do they have our support. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

Expect to see flak for Steve Gibson and warnings that the club may fold ?

 

 

 

i fail to see what this has to do with the topic at hand really, couldn't give monkeys about 'boro

 

as that and subsequent posts state, the insinuation that the debt was unique to us is wrong, especially when the trophy winners all have bigger debt.

 

 

 

 

[mrmojorisin75]

And no, no one is suggesting that relegation under Ashley will be excused by the shit that Shepherd left us with but if we remain in mid-table for the next few years and many people conclude that we would have done so anyway even if Shepherd had stayed, then what's the big fucking deal? If this is the case and I'm not saying it is, then our expectations with Ashley were high to begin with given the alternative scenario.

 

certain people really have forgotten, or never got at all, the feeling around supporting & watching the club from bobby leaving onwards, largely because of ashley

 

i haven't, i honestly believed we'd eventually get relegated under the old board, their ineptitude seemed to know no bounds after the robson appointment, in fact even during that when they were making the poor old fella look like a mug on the sky cameras with the rooney bid being released

 

the old board did some top stuff but people with memories know it was coming apart at the seams, with 100m+ of debt and the current credit crisis it would have taken a FUCKING good manager to get us back to the CL imo

 

I see the smoggies have released their end of year accounts, and they are 93m quid in the red, and they haven't built a stadium like we have done, nor do they have our support. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

Expect to see flak for Steve Gibson and warnings that the club may fold ?

 

 

 

i fail to see what this has to do with the topic at hand really, couldn't give monkeys about 'boro

 

as that and subsequent posts state, the insinuation that the debt was unique to us is wrong, especially when the trophy winners all have bigger debt.

 

 

nope, no insinuation that the debt was unique at all i'm afraid, we've treaded enough ground on that subject to know it's not true don't we?

 

this is a thread about a potential future remember, without getting into too much detail my point about debt is merely that to push back to the CL we'd have had to perhaps as much as double the 100m in the next few years under a PLC

 

should the theoretical "gamble" we're discussing have worked maybe everything would have been fine, if it failed a la souness i doubt we would have been myself, especially given the way the credit market has gone recently

[Tooj]

At the time I think the majority were all behind the appointment of Allardyce, I know I certainly was, so he did seem a good appointment from the offset. However, even if Shepherd was still in charge more than likely Big Sam wouldn't have been the right man for the job as we would have still been just as bad under his management due to him being absolutely clueless basically. I'm fully aware that he harps on about he lost out on a few players due to the takeover, however this is still the man who chose Alan Smith over Elano, so we all know what kind of player he was after, despite all of his spin about saying he would change his playing style when at a bigger club, which was quite frankly a load of rubbish.

 

Although we wouldn't have been as bad as we are now, that I am sure of.

[OzzieMandias]

There's a difference between an owner who's putting money in and lending to the club from his own resources, and an owner who's taking money out and borrowing against the club's assets at a commercial rate of interest.

[Willow]

aaaaand there off!

[Tooj]

aaaaand there off!

 

[Optimistic Nut]

I believe had Fat Fred stayed on, we'd have consolidated as a club with Big Sam slowly but surely turning us around during the term of his contract. To which degree I don't know, certainly not top 4 material but top 8 perhaps.

 

Seriously, you change your tune more than an I-Pod.

[Mick]

At the time I think the majority were all behind the appointment of Allardyce, I know I certainly was, so he did seem a good appointment from the offset. However, even if Shepherd was still in charge more than likely Big Sam wouldn't have been the right man for the job as we would have still been just as bad under his management due to him being absolutely clueless basically. I'm fully aware that he harps on about he lost out on a few players due to the takeover, however this is still the man who chose Alan Smith over Elano, so we all know what kind of player he was after, despite all of his spin about saying he would change his playing style when at a bigger club, which was quite frankly a load of rubbish.

 

Although we wouldn't have been as bad as we are now, that I am sure of.

 

I think we would have been worse than we are now because I'm not sure that Allardyce would have kept us in the Premier League last season.  I doubt he'd have been sacked in time if the person who appointed him had stayed, it was easier for Mort to sack him.

[Tooj]

At the time I think the majority were all behind the appointment of Allardyce, I know I certainly was, so he did seem a good appointment from the offset. However, even if Shepherd was still in charge more than likely Big Sam wouldn't have been the right man for the job as we would have still been just as bad under his management due to him being absolutely clueless basically. I'm fully aware that he harps on about he lost out on a few players due to the takeover, however this is still the man who chose Alan Smith over Elano, so we all know what kind of player he was after, despite all of his spin about saying he would change his playing style when at a bigger club, which was quite frankly a load of rubbish.

 

Although we wouldn't have been as bad as we are now, that I am sure of.

 

I think we would have been worse than we are now because I'm not sure that Allardyce would have kept us in the Premier League last season.  I doubt he'd have been sacked in time if the person who appointed him had stayed, it was easier for Mort to sack him.

 

The only reason I'm saying that we wouldn't have been worse than we are now is simply down to the fact we wouldn't have Ashley at the helm.

[Mick]

 

The only reason I'm saying that we wouldn't have been worse than we are now is simply down to the fact we wouldn't have Ashley at the helm.

 

We also wouldn't have had Keegan to turn us around, I don't see how not having Ashley (possibly) in the Championship is better than having him in the Premier League.

[Optimistic Nut]

 

The only reason I'm saying that we wouldn't have been worse than we are now is simply down to the fact we wouldn't have Ashley at the helm.

 

We also wouldn't have had Keegan to turn us around, I don't see how not having Ashley (possibly) in the Championship is better than having him in the Premier League.

 

Yeah, I'm not convinced we'd have stayed up last season had Ashley not sacked Allardyce and replaced him with Keegan, and I don't think Shepherd would have sacked Allardyce, or appoint Keegan.

[Syrette]

I believe had Fat Fred stayed on, we'd have consolidated as a club with Big Sam slowly but surely turning us around during the term of his contract. To which degree I don't know, certainly not top 4 material but top 8 perhaps.

 

Let's be thankful that you have no say in matters behind the scenes at NUFC.

[Tooj]

 

The only reason I'm saying that we wouldn't have been worse than we are now is simply down to the fact we wouldn't have Ashley at the helm.

 

We also wouldn't have had Keegan to turn us around, I don't see how not having Ashley (possibly) in the Championship is better than having him in the Premier League.

 

Yeah, I'm not convinced we'd have stayed up last season had Ashley not sacked Allardyce and replaced him with Keegan, and I don't think Shepherd would have sacked Allardyce, or appoint Keegan.

 

It was Mort who sacked Allardyce.

[Tooj]

 

The only reason I'm saying that we wouldn't have been worse than we are now is simply down to the fact we wouldn't have Ashley at the helm.

 

We also wouldn't have had Keegan to turn us around, I don't see how not having Ashley (possibly) in the Championship is better than having him in the Premier League.

 

We may have had someone else though. Either way you look at it, the club was never in this much of a mess when Shepherd was in charge. Yes there was times I feared for us going down, but everything as a whole was never this bad.

[Mick]

 

Yeah, I'm not convinced we'd have stayed up last season had Ashley not sacked Allardyce and replaced him with Keegan, and I don't think Shepherd would have sacked Allardyce, or appoint Keegan.

 

We're not doing well now but at least we're still in a position to do something about it and turn things around even if that means finishing 17th.

[Syrette]

 

The only reason I'm saying that we wouldn't have been worse than we are now is simply down to the fact we wouldn't have Ashley at the helm.

 

We also wouldn't have had Keegan to turn us around, I don't see how not having Ashley (possibly) in the Championship is better than having him in the Premier League.

 

Yeah, I'm not convinced we'd have stayed up last season had Ashley not sacked Allardyce and replaced him with Keegan, and I don't think Shepherd would have sacked Allardyce, or appoint Keegan.

 

It was Mort who sacked Allardyce.

 

Not if you're going to blame Ashley for everything and suggest that everything is ultimately his responsibility.

[Tooj]

 

The only reason I'm saying that we wouldn't have been worse than we are now is simply down to the fact we wouldn't have Ashley at the helm.

 

We also wouldn't have had Keegan to turn us around, I don't see how not having Ashley (possibly) in the Championship is better than having him in the Premier League.

 

Yeah, I'm not convinced we'd have stayed up last season had Ashley not sacked Allardyce and replaced him with Keegan, and I don't think Shepherd would have sacked Allardyce, or appoint Keegan.

 

It was Mort who sacked Allardyce.

 

Not if you're going to blame Ashley for everything and suggest that everything is ultimately his responsibility.

 

It was though. Mort told Ashley he thought he should be sacked and Ashley told him it was his call.

[Mick]

 

We may have had someone else though. Either way you look at it, the club was never in this much of a mess when Shepherd was in charge. Yes there was times I feared for us going down, but everything as a whole was never this bad.

 

I felt worse under Souness and Roeder at times but things could get worse before it improves.

[Tooj]

 

We may have had someone else though. Either way you look at it, the club was never in this much of a mess when Shepherd was in charge. Yes there was times I feared for us going down, but everything as a whole was never this bad.

 

I felt worse under Souness and Roeder at times but things could get worse before it improves.

 

You really felt worse under those two than now? Honestly?

[mrmojorisin75]

aye that's some statement, things could have got this bad under shepherd imo but they never came close

[Tooj]

97/98 season was when I really felt it was squeeky bum time btw. For a brief moment that is.

[mrmojorisin75]

97/98 season was when I really felt it was squeeky bum time btw. For a brief moment that is.

 

you could argue shepherd acted too early at times but too his (and the boards) credit at least action was always taken and the unthinkable avoided, has to be said