The Wise/Jimenez/Vetere AND KEVIN KEEGAN appreciation thread

[Liam Liam Liam O]

They're made some very good signings, but they also made some poor ones, especially Gonzales which has been an utter disaster.  Meanwhile they left numerous holes in the squad while £12 or so million sat in the bank unused.  They also missed out on quite a few signings, and I'd hardly say Jiminez hoodwinked Mallorca into handing over Jonas for peanuts, they had no say in the matter.  But I congratulate them none the less for identifying him and acting quickly to sign him first.  In other words its been a very mixed bag IMO.

 

You're blaming them for a player picking up an injury mackems.gif

 

He had injury problems before that, why the fuck do you think they loaned him out?  To prove his fitness, and it blew up in their faces

 

Footballers get injuries

 

How would you compare their transfers over the summer, with say Allardyce's success in the market the summer previous?

 

Yes Footballers get injuries, doesn't change the fact that they signed a player with injury problems and got stung, they could have gone for a player who didn't have injury problems.

 

I'd say they did much better then Allardyce overall, Bassong, Coloccini and Gutierrez in particular were excellent signings and Guthrie was a good signing too.

 

To compare like for like then, Rozenhal, Cacapa, Geremi & Smith?

 

What's your point exactly?

 

That they've done a good job.

[Teasy]

They're made some very good signings, but they also made some poor ones, especially Gonzales which has been an utter disaster.  Meanwhile they left numerous holes in the squad while £12 or so million sat in the bank unused.  They also missed out on quite a few signings, and I'd hardly say Jiminez hoodwinked Mallorca into handing over Jonas for peanuts, they had no say in the matter.  But I congratulate them none the less for identifying him and acting quickly to sign him first.  In other words its been a very mixed bag IMO.

 

You're blaming them for a player picking up an injury mackems.gif

 

He had injury problems before that, why the fuck do you think they loaned him out?  To prove his fitness, and it blew up in their faces

 

Footballers get injuries

 

How would you compare their transfers over the summer, with say Allardyce's success in the market the summer previous?

 

Yes Footballers get injuries, doesn't change the fact that they signed a player with injury problems and got stung, they could have gone for a player who didn't have injury problems.

 

I'd say they did much better then Allardyce overall, Bassong, Coloccini and Gutierrez in particular were excellent signings and Guthrie was a good signing too.

 

To compare like for like then, Rozenhal, Cacapa, Geremi & Smith?

 

What's your point exactly?

 

That they've done a good job.

 

I didn't claim they hadn't done a good job.  I already acknowledged that we'd signed some excellent players, that they should be congratulated for the likes of Jonas and that they did much better overall then Allardyce..

 

Though by the way isn't it a bit unfair to ignore the likes of Faye, Beye and to a lesser extent Enrique (who I still like as a player).  Undoubtedly we made much better signings overall under Keegan/Vetere ect, but lets not make it look worse then it was.

[TRon]

While Keegan wasn't a bad judge of a player, unearthing and buying relatively unknown players for small fees wasn't really his way of doing things otherwise he'd be the most sought after manager in the world. It's a bit daft to insist on pushing his name into this thread (IN CAPITALS!) just because we don't like to think the cockney mafia could possibly have done some things right by the club.

[johnnypd]

Then on the youth side, we have Ranger, Soderberg, Kadar, Tozer, Baheng all young talents that seem markably better than what we have currently on the books.

 

Most of them were signed by Sam Allardyce, who had already sussed a major problem at reseve & youth level when most of the previous reserve team did not get new contracts with club & went straight to non league local football.

 

All but Ranger in fact. the Kadar deal was completed after allardyce left but all the groundwork for it had been done earlier, in fact Allardyce had wanted him at Bolton too. i wouldnt really include any of our youth signings, Ranger included, as something to glorify just yet. so far they've achieved nothing. you have to wait till they have established themselves in the first team until you can do that, and hopefully a fair few of them will.

 

Not sure how you can give Allardyce credit for Kadar when he trained with us under Roeder around the same time as he trained with Bolton.

 

probably because all the weeks of speculation linking him to us happened when allardyce was in charge, that allardyce brought him here in december 2007 for a trail, playing in a friendly against hartlepool, and that kadar turned up in newcastle, with the purpose of signing, in the days before allardyce was sacked, and that allardeyce had been looking at him when he managed bolton. never heard about kadar training with us under roeder. presumably you think roeder signed him for us then? i struggle to see how you can put it down to anyone else but allardyce in all honesty.

[Baggio]

I don't think anyone deserves credit for this, well maybe Kinnear for sticking with it but one of the most impressive things has been the partnership between Colo and Bassong, as far as both players go they seem to compliment each other really well.

 

 

[johnnypd]

While Keegan wasn't a bad judge of a player, unearthing and buying relatively unknown players for small fees wasn't really his way of doing things otherwise he'd be the most sought after manager in the world. It's a bit daft to insist on pushing his name into this thread (IN CAPITALS!) just because we don't like to think the cockney mafia could possibly have done some things right by the club.

 

it was oldtype who put his name in capitals. i thought this thread was supposed to look beyond system vs keegan, fans vs ashley and all that and simply praise the recruiting team,and  that's all of them, not just the ones you back or blame, love or loathe. Keegan did some things in the window that have already been covered so deserves to be amongst the names. this is about a team and, for a couple of months at the beginning of the summer at least, keegan was part of that team. to put it more bluntly - to not include him would be as divisive as not including dennis wise's name.

[oldtype]

While Keegan wasn't a bad judge of a player, unearthing and buying relatively unknown players for small fees wasn't really his way of doing things otherwise he'd be the most sought after manager in the world. It's a bit daft to insist on pushing his name into this thread (IN CAPITALS!) just because we don't like to think the cockney mafia could possibly have done some things right by the club.

 

it was oldtype who put his name in capitals. i thought this thread was supposed to look beyond system vs keegan, fans vs ashley and all that and simply praise the recruiting team,and  that's all of them, not just the ones you back or blame, love or loathe. Keegan did some things in the window that have already been covered so deserves to be amongst the names. this is about a team and, for a couple of months at the beginning of the summer at least, keegan was part of that team. to put it more bluntly - to not include him would be as divisive as not including dennis wise's name.

 

Look. Guys.

 

The way I see it, if you think Keegan's name needs to be there in the thread title, it's right there for you in caps.

 

If you don't think it has to be, it's rather easy to filter out at the same time.

[Baggio]

Then on the youth side, we have Ranger, Soderberg, Kadar, Tozer, Baheng all young talents that seem markably better than what we have currently on the books.

 

Most of them were signed by Sam Allardyce, who had already sussed a major problem at reseve & youth level when most of the previous reserve team did not get new contracts with club & went straight to non league local football.

 

All but Ranger in fact. the Kadar deal was completed after allardyce left but all the groundwork for it had been done earlier, in fact Allardyce had wanted him at Bolton too. i wouldnt really include any of our youth signings, Ranger included, as something to glorify just yet. so far they've achieved nothing. you have to wait till they have established themselves in the first team until you can do that, and hopefully a fair few of them will.

 

Not sure how you can give Allardyce credit for Kadar when he trained with us under Roeder around the same time as he trained with Bolton.

 

probably because all the weeks of speculation linking him to us happened when allardyce was in charge, that allardyce brought him here in december 2007 for a trail, playing in a friendly against hartlepool, and that kadar turned up in newcastle, with the purpose of signing, in the days before allardyce was sacked, and that allardeyce had been looking at him when he managed bolton. never heard about kadar training with us under roeder. presumably you think roeder signed him for us then? i struggle to see how you can put it down to anyone else but allardyce in all honesty.

 

I thought he came here the season before? My mistake if he didn't.

[Thespence]

While Keegan wasn't a bad judge of a player, unearthing and buying relatively unknown players for small fees wasn't really his way of doing things otherwise he'd be the most sought after manager in the world.

 

When someone signs a better £ for £ signing at Newcastle than Rob Lee it will be good day. Or we sign striker from the lower leagues as good as Andy Cole, I will be very impressed.

 

Who are these relatively unknown players we signed for the first team? Because everyone of them played in one Europe's major leagues the previous season & I think all of them have some type of international caps.

[johnnypd]

They're made some very good signings, but they also made some poor ones, especially Gonzales which has been an utter disaster.  Meanwhile they left numerous holes in the squad while £12 or so million sat in the bank unused.  They also missed out on quite a few signings, and I'd hardly say Jiminez hoodwinked Mallorca into handing over Jonas for peanuts, they had no say in the matter.  But I congratulate them none the less for identifying him and acting quickly to sign him first.  In other words its been a very mixed bag IMO.

 

You're blaming them for a player picking up an injury mackems.gif

 

He had injury problems before that, why the fuck do you think they loaned him out?  To prove his fitness, and it blew up in their faces

 

Footballers get injuries

 

How would you compare their transfers over the summer, with say Allardyce's success in the market the summer previous?

 

Yes Footballers get injuries, doesn't change the fact that they signed a player with injury problems and got stung, they could have gone for a player who didn't have injury problems.

 

I'd say they did much better then Allardyce overall, Bassong, Coloccini and Gutierrez in particular were excellent signings and Guthrie was a good signing too.

 

To compare like for like then, Rozenhal, Cacapa, Geremi & Smith?

 

Allardyce's best four/five signings:

 

Faye, Beye, Viduka, Barton/Enrique

 

Keegan/Wise/Vetere/Jiminez's four best signings:

 

Jonas, Colo, Bassong, Guthrie

 

very little in it. i think Allardyce did a very good job plugging some of the gaps that we desperately needed plugging - we were playing some real shit in defence the season before, huntington, ramage, moore, bramble etc. But he left us without much needed creativity and pace in attacking positions, his fatal error.

 

Jonas was a good move to address that, though not bringing in more of his kind was a big mistake, as was not bringing in a dominant central midfielder or two, meaning we have to rely on butt and geremi for another season. While it is too early to tell, Bassong does looks like an excellent signing and looks like finally forcing Taylor out of our side, a big plus. Colo for Faye is fairly like for like, while Guthrie is good to have in and around the side if not a stunning player.

 

both windows have their gaping flaws for different reasons, but the two windows combined give us a pretty solid improvement from Roeder's side. We still lack something in midfield, and probably a striker, mind.

[TRon]

While Keegan wasn't a bad judge of a player, unearthing and buying relatively unknown players for small fees wasn't really his way of doing things otherwise he'd be the most sought after manager in the world. It's a bit daft to insist on pushing his name into this thread (IN CAPITALS!) just because we don't like to think the cockney mafia could possibly have done some things right by the club.

 

it was oldtype who put his name in capitals. i thought this thread was supposed to look beyond system vs keegan, fans vs ashley and all that and simply praise the recruiting team,and  that's all of them, not just the ones you back or blame, love or loathe. Keegan did some things in the window that have already been covered so deserves to be amongst the names. this is about a team and, for a couple of months at the beginning of the summer at least, keegan was part of that team. to put it more bluntly - to not include him would be as divisive as not including dennis wise's name.

 

I never really felt Keegan was part of 'the team'. Whether that was his fault or the rest of Ashley's crew is up for debate, but trawling the world for unknown talent isn't something I would associate with Keegan, or Arthur Cox and McDermott. I hadn't heard of Bassong, Coloccini or Jonas before they arrived here, and I doubt Keegan had either.

[TRon]

While Keegan wasn't a bad judge of a player, unearthing and buying relatively unknown players for small fees wasn't really his way of doing things otherwise he'd be the most sought after manager in the world.

 

When someone signs a better £ for £ signing at Newcastle than Rob Lee it will be good day. Or we sign striker from the lower leagues as good as Andy Cole, I will be very impressed.

 

Who are these relatively unknown players we signed for the first team? Because everyone of them played in one Europe's major leagues the previous season & I think all of them have some type of international caps.

 

I'm sure you must have recommended us targetting Jonas and Bassong as great potential signings then. Fair play to you, I had fuck all knowlegde of them in truth.

[johnnypd]

While Keegan wasn't a bad judge of a player, unearthing and buying relatively unknown players for small fees wasn't really his way of doing things otherwise he'd be the most sought after manager in the world. It's a bit daft to insist on pushing his name into this thread (IN CAPITALS!) just because we don't like to think the cockney mafia could possibly have done some things right by the club.

 

it was oldtype who put his name in capitals. i thought this thread was supposed to look beyond system vs keegan, fans vs ashley and all that and simply praise the recruiting team,and  that's all of them, not just the ones you back or blame, love or loathe. Keegan did some things in the window that have already been covered so deserves to be amongst the names. this is about a team and, for a couple of months at the beginning of the summer at least, keegan was part of that team. to put it more bluntly - to not include him would be as divisive as not including dennis wise's name.

 

I never really felt Keegan was part of 'the team'. Whether that was his fault or the rest of Ashley's crew is up for debate, but trawling the world for unknown talent isn't something I would associate with Keegan, or Arthur Cox and McDermott. I hadn't heard of Bassong, Coloccini or Jonas before they arrived here, and I doubt Keegan had either.

 

this isnt about the word team as an adjective but as a noun. maybe he wasnt a 'team player' but he was part of the team in so far as he had influence on the signings of guthrie and bassong and was pictured alongside vetere at matches in france. clearly that broke down later on in the window but it doesnt negate what happened earlier on.

 

are you sure youd never heard of Coloccini?? one of the most recognisable defenders in football iyam.

[BottledDog]

While Keegan wasn't a bad judge of a player, unearthing and buying relatively unknown players for small fees wasn't really his way of doing things otherwise he'd be the most sought after manager in the world. It's a bit daft to insist on pushing his name into this thread (IN CAPITALS!) just because we don't like to think the cockney mafia could possibly have done some things right by the club.

 

After his Man City signings, from the off I was very glad that we had a team in place to take care of bringing in players/recommending players outside of the obvious pool of players. Keegan had more than his fair share of misses outside of the guaranteed quality of say Anelka.

[Mick]

 

Allardyce's best four/five signings:

 

Faye, Beye, Viduka, Barton/Enrique

 

Keegan/Wise/Vetere/Jiminez's four best signings:

 

Jonas, Colo, Bassong, Guthrie

 

very little in it. i think Allardyce did a very good job plugging some of the gaps that we desperately needed plugging - we were playing some real s*** in defence the season before, huntington, ramage, moore, bramble etc. But he left us without much needed creativity and pace in attacking positions, his fatal error.

 

Jonas was a good move to address that, though not bringing in more of his kind was a big mistake, as was not bringing in a dominant central midfielder or two, meaning we have to rely on butt and geremi for another season. While it is too early to tell, Bassong does looks like an excellent signing and looks like finally forcing Taylor out of our side, a big plus. Colo for Faye is fairly like for like, while Guthrie is good to have in and around the side if not a stunning player.

 

both windows have their gaping flaws for different reasons, but the two windows combined give us a pretty solid improvement from Roeder's side. We still lack something in midfield, and probably a striker, mind.

 

Barton and Viduka can hardly been hailed as good signings by Allardyce, they've been here for almost 1 1/2 seasons in which we've played 62 competitive games and between those two we've had 57 games and 9 goals out of them.

 

Beye has been an excellent signing, especially after Allardyce pissed off, Enrique has a lot to learn but shows promise, Faye hardly lasted longer than Allardyce, he legged it because he'd fallen out with Keegan.

 

I'd take the 2nd 4 over the first 5 any day of the week.

[Thespence]

While Keegan wasn't a bad judge of a player, unearthing and buying relatively unknown players for small fees wasn't really his way of doing things otherwise he'd be the most sought after manager in the world.

 

When someone signs a better £ for £ signing at Newcastle than Rob Lee it will be good day. Or we sign striker from the lower leagues as good as Andy Cole, I will be very impressed.

 

Who are these relatively unknown players we signed for the first team? Because everyone of them played in one Europe's major leagues the previous season & I think all of them have some type of international caps.

 

I'm sure you must have recommended us targetting Jonas and Bassong as great potential signings then. Fair play to you, I had f*** all knowlegde of them in truth.

 

Tbf I would rather we had signed another Argentinean from Real Mallorca (Ibagaza) instead of Jonas.

[Guest Heneage]

I'll get slated for this but hey ho I couldn't care.

 

My mate in the reserves says Xisco looks good in training.

[BottledDog]

While Keegan wasn't a bad judge of a player, unearthing and buying relatively unknown players for small fees wasn't really his way of doing things otherwise he'd be the most sought after manager in the world.

 

When someone signs a better £ for £ signing at Newcastle than Rob Lee it will be good day. Or we sign striker from the lower leagues as good as Andy Cole, I will be very impressed.

 

Who are these relatively unknown players we signed for the first team? Because everyone of them played in one Europe's major leagues the previous season & I think all of them have some type of international caps.

 

That was a fair old while ago now. How well do you feel he did in terms overall signings at his more recent clubs like Man City?

[johnnypd]

 

Allardyce's best four/five signings:

 

Faye, Beye, Viduka, Barton/Enrique

 

Keegan/Wise/Vetere/Jiminez's four best signings:

 

Jonas, Colo, Bassong, Guthrie

 

very little in it. i think Allardyce did a very good job plugging some of the gaps that we desperately needed plugging - we were playing some real s*** in defence the season before, huntington, ramage, moore, bramble etc. But he left us without much needed creativity and pace in attacking positions, his fatal error.

 

Jonas was a good move to address that, though not bringing in more of his kind was a big mistake, as was not bringing in a dominant central midfielder or two, meaning we have to rely on butt and geremi for another season. While it is too early to tell, Bassong does looks like an excellent signing and looks like finally forcing Taylor out of our side, a big plus. Colo for Faye is fairly like for like, while Guthrie is good to have in and around the side if not a stunning player.

 

both windows have their gaping flaws for different reasons, but the two windows combined give us a pretty solid improvement from Roeder's side. We still lack something in midfield, and probably a striker, mind.

 

Barton and Viduka can hardly been hailed as good signings by Allardyce, they've been here for almost 1 1/2 seasons in which we've played 62 competitive games and between those two we've had 57 games and 9 goals out of them.

 

Beye has been an excellent signing, especially after Allardyce pissed off, Enrique has a lot to learn but shows promise, Faye hardly lasted longer than Allardyce, he legged it because he'd fallen out with Keegan.

 

I'd take the 2nd 4 over the first 5 any day of the week.

 

Viduka coming back into the side (along with Martins) kept us up last season, so i'd say having him here was a godsend. Barton's not been great but if Guthrie can be deemed a 'good' signing then so can Barton.

[Baggio]

I think Kinnear must have had a really shit holiday in the Costa del Sol with his treatment of Enrique and Xisco.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Yeah, they've been instrumental in our title success.

 

I demand statues for all.

[johnnypd]

While Keegan wasn't a bad judge of a player, unearthing and buying relatively unknown players for small fees wasn't really his way of doing things otherwise he'd be the most sought after manager in the world.

 

When someone signs a better £ for £ signing at Newcastle than Rob Lee it will be good day. Or we sign striker from the lower leagues as good as Andy Cole, I will be very impressed.

 

Who are these relatively unknown players we signed for the first team? Because everyone of them played in one Europe's major leagues the previous season & I think all of them have some type of international caps.

 

That was a fair old while ago now. How well do you feel he did in terms overall signings at his more recent clubs like Man City?

 

Keegan brought in a lot of good foreign players at city, but i think his problem with the failures was being TOO adventurous in his transfers, the opposite of what some are suggesting.

 

of his better signings - Anelka, Distin, Bernabia, Berkovic, Tarnat, Van Buyten, Foe.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

They're made some very good signings, but they also made some poor ones, especially Gonzales which has been an utter disaster.  Meanwhile they left numerous holes in the squad while £12 or so million sat in the bank unused.  They also missed out on quite a few signings, and I'd hardly say Jiminez hoodwinked Mallorca into handing over Jonas for peanuts, they had no say in the matter.  But I congratulate them none the less for identifying him and acting quickly to sign him first.  In other words its been a very mixed bag IMO.

 

You're blaming them for a player picking up an injury mackems.gif

 

He had injury problems before that, why the fuck do you think they loaned him out?  To prove his fitness, and it blew up in their faces

 

Footballers get injuries

 

How would you compare their transfers over the summer, with say Allardyce's success in the market the summer previous?

 

Yes Footballers get injuries, doesn't change the fact that they signed a player with injury problems and got stung, they could have gone for a player who didn't have injury problems.

 

I'd say they did much better then Allardyce overall, Bassong, Coloccini and Gutierrez in particular were excellent signings and Guthrie was a good signing too.

 

To compare like for like then, Rozenhal, Cacapa, Geremi & Smith?

 

Allardyce's best four/five signings:

 

Faye, Beye, Viduka, Barton/Enrique

 

Keegan/Wise/Vetere/Jiminez's four best signings:

 

Jonas, Colo, Bassong, Guthrie

 

very little in it. i think Allardyce did a very good job plugging some of the gaps that we desperately needed plugging - we were playing some real shit in defence the season before, huntington, ramage, moore, bramble etc. But he left us without much needed creativity and pace in attacking positions, his fatal error.

 

Jonas was a good move to address that, though not bringing in more of his kind was a big mistake, as was not bringing in a dominant central midfielder or two, meaning we have to rely on butt and geremi for another season. While it is too early to tell, Bassong does looks like an excellent signing and looks like finally forcing Taylor out of our side, a big plus. Colo for Faye is fairly like for like, while Guthrie is good to have in and around the side if not a stunning player.

 

both windows have their gaping flaws for different reasons, but the two windows combined give us a pretty solid improvement from Roeder's side. We still lack something in midfield, and probably a striker, mind.

 

The comparison was meant as comparing players signed in the same position, I forgot about Faye though, but to be honest I don't think he was ever that good anyway.

[Thespence]

While Keegan wasn't a bad judge of a player, unearthing and buying relatively unknown players for small fees wasn't really his way of doing things otherwise he'd be the most sought after manager in the world.

 

When someone signs a better £ for £ signing at Newcastle than Rob Lee it will be good day. Or we sign striker from the lower leagues as good as Andy Cole, I will be very impressed.

 

Who are these relatively unknown players we signed for the first team? Because everyone of them played in one Europe's major leagues the previous season & I think all of them have some type of international caps.

 

That was a fair old while ago now. How well do you feel he did in terms overall signings at his more recent clubs like Man City?

 

He signed a lot of older players at city which helped them stop pinging up down as they have not be relegated since KK took them up iirc, which is big thing especially for Man City. Did he sign Benarbia? As I always enjoyed watching him play football.

[Mick]

 

Viduka coming back into the side (along with Martins) kept us up last season, so i'd say having him here was a godsend. Barton's not been great but if Guthrie can be deemed a 'good' signing then so can Barton.

 

It could be argued that getting Smith and Duff out of the team did more than bringing Viduka in.  In no sense can Barton be classed as a 'good' signing at this time although that could change in future.