Mr Ashley and Ambition

[Dr Venkman]

we're rubbish but that doesnt mean shepherd is devoid of all blame. his time as chairman (not major shareholder, whatever, he was the 'man at the top') was an absolute disaster, stop pretending it wasnt.

 

It wasn't an absolute disaster. Although it didn't end well we also had a few seasons that we could only dream off now..

 

because when john hall handed the reigns to fred we were a very good team, we got progressively worse under shepherd, souness, roeder, allardyce. people really need to remember what an idiot shepherd was, ashleys tennure so far has been shit, but dont even try and pretend that it means shepherd was good for the club once he was promoted.

[Skeletor]

He's an absolute cunt. I've been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt for so long but I just can't anymore. It's all too much.

[Guest The Libertine]

i think we'd be in the same position or lower if the old board was still here. at least now our finances are sorted and we have the makings of a good team with some highly regarded young players coming in, whereas our team/squad under roeder was shit and going down eventually. he just needs to bin kinnear and appoint a good manager in the summer.

 

If only it were that simple.

 

it is. if keegan was still here and doing well most of the hatred towards ashley would be non-existent.

[Thespence]

He's an absolute cunt. I've been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt for so long but I just can't anymore. It's all too much.

 

Sometimes the best posts are simple

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Regarding Freddy Shepherd, I like many had lost complete faith in the man and believed his time was up as we were heading backwards at an alarming rate and in quite a few areas of the club, on the pitch and financially. But I was still prepared to give him one final chance to undo all the bad work he had done (he did do some good work I concede that, SJP etc.), and that chance came with the appointment of Sam Allardyce which for me suggested a shift in Shepherd's management of the club from a reactionary, hands on and too involved role to a more back-seat role, handing full control to the manager. He even admitted himself the club then needed it in terms of coaching staff, medical experts, scouting, new technology etc. I also suspect his ill-health played a role in that shift in mentality.

 

Because I rated Big Sam and considered him to be the ideal man for the job at the time, I was more than happy with the appointment and despite all of Shepherd's bad points and my lack of faith in the man I could at least see via the appointment that we had put in place a way if you like where we could get ourselves away from the Souness and Roeder induced mess and look towards a brighter future of health on and off the pitch, providing he backed Big Sam all the way (and not necessarily financially) of course which I think he would have done myself (support the manager).

 

But then Ashley entered the scene and changed all that.

 

A change I welcomed at the onset I have to admit. A change I even believed was for the best as although Shepherd with his appointment of Allardyce had showed he was at least willing to see the bigger picture, I still didn't feel too confident he was capable of delivering it.

 

So yes I was happy to see him go and in doing so almost endorsing the new owner and his plans which at the time appealed much like Big Sam's methods of sports psychology, fitness and diet, Pro-zone etc. and together the new owner, board and manager made a good start. While the players signed themselves were questionable (or some of them) Allardyce successfully unidentified all weak areas and dully strengthened them in a short space of time without mega money if not in quality then in quantity. Remember hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

At the time all I can say is that I was very happy with the appointment of Big Sam even under Shepherd, equally happy he had gone and been replaced by a seemingly intelligent and successful man in Ashley who had what seemed like good ideas, and our summer dealings in the transfer market.

 

And even though as the season wore on and results and performances were not the best, at times shockingly bad, I still had faith in the manager turning it all around and the new owner and board if they all stuck together and importantly stuck to their plans.

 

Then out of the blue Big Sam had been sacked. I say out of the blue he was under a lot of pressure and rumours he was this or that game away from the chop were rife, I thought he'd get until the end of the season at least.

 

What happened next didn't sit easy with me - chasing Redknapp. A decent enough manager in his own right but not a step up on Big Sam. That was the time when I first started questioning the new owner and board. Why replace with like for like. I never quite liked Redknap the character either and to be truthful I didn't want him at my club. For whatever reason though he never came, and in come King Kevin Keegan himself. Wow!

 

My head said no, big mistake, will not work etc. My heart said f*** yeah. KK back, a man I trust 100% and love (and still do by the way). Bring it on. I don't know what I thought about the new owner and board and their motives and intentions with that one, not at the time anyway, today I have a theory.

 

It didn't start so well under KK but as the end of the season drew close the football was good to watch, players were committed and Owen was playing as well as ever, and to top it all off we were performing and picking up points. The summer and following season promised so much.

 

Come the summer and start to the new season (opening with a fine performance and worthy point at Old Trafford) it all changed again. We all know what happened, we've been over it countless times so I won't go over it again.

 

All I will say and I don't think this can be denied, is that since that day, the whole management of the club in all areas has been nothing short of shambolic and a perfect example of ineptitude, mismanagement, and downright bad business. To such a point Ashley and co have proved themselves incapable of running this football club remotely well, even sticking to their own model or plans they still can't get things right. They have been a categoric failure of epic proportions to the extent that has the club teetering on relegation for the first time in our Premier League history. Yes we've been down there before and yes there have been scary moments but at no point have we been as listless as this. We've never known it this bad, not even under Shepherd, Souness, Roeder et al.

 

What all of this has taught me is that in terms of a manager, managing footballers and getting the right kind of backing is the key and not science, technology and even money which kind of got lost in between Souness and Big Sam. On the owner/board side what I've learned is that Freddy Shepherd for all his faults, mistakes and mismanagement of the club (and there were many), was a football man, a Newcastle United fan, who could at least see the bigger picture even if he was at times incapable of delivering it and yes, I would take him back in a blink of an eye over Ashley and co.

 

Now I'm not excusing his mistakes or mismanagement or making light of them because they were as we now know not as bad as Ashley's and seriously, he and his way of running the club isn't the answer and never was, not long-term as we were heading backwards and running on ill-health, but I do feel like a mug for punching the air in delight when he left.

 

I guess the biggest lesson in all of this is that the grass isn't always greener, be careful for what you wish for and that where NUFC is concerned, don't take anything for granted.

 

All I wish for now is for Ashley and his cronies to leave, for Kinnear to leave and get himself a decent job as he's a good man and a passionate football man who doesn't deserve these morons, for all those wasters on the playing staff to f*** off and for Newcastle United to be ran right, be it from the Premier League or Championship, I honestly don't care.

 

I can take Championship football, it is football after all, however I can't stomach witnessing players with hearts the size of atoms being paid ridiculous money to under perform and take the piss in our colors, a manager like Kinnear who hasn't a clue sitting in the dugout and above all else the morons above running affairs from some New York night club, a London Casino or another office away from SJP with no real idea of how to run the club. And to top it all off I can't stomach the utter dejection on and off the stands among those who only want what's best for their club, the only people who matter in all of this and the only people who really care, US LOT.

 

It won't happen any time soon and we could fall even further but Newcastle United will come good one day, once again. The day I stop having faith in the club itself or badge is the day I really do jack it all in. Thankfully I have plenty of faith in Newcastle United itself and equally those who support the club.

 

PS Welcome back HTL, good to see your name once again on the forum 

[Guest toonlass]

Farrington has made some cracking points, a lot of which the fans would love to have answered. When is our AGM by the way?

[NE5]

The club may have ceased  to exist under Shepherd

 

 

rubbish

 

 

[Unbelievable]

Farrington has made some cracking points, a lot of which the fans would love to have answered. When is our AGM by the way?

 

We´re privately owned now, so there is no accountability to shareholders anymore, is there?

[NE5]

 

Good to see you back posting HTL. Agree with a lot of your points, but I do not agree that the current administration is the worst in the club's history. Sure it's a big mess, but I do believe that Ashley is one decent adviser away from turning it around in a way that would make us relatively successful again, and make him more money than the current situation is.

 

Wasn't Keegan his "advisor" ?

 

 

 

No. Keegan needed his own advisors ffs!!! Plus I'm talking about someone who is not involved in the football, but rather in the running of the club. Think a football-clued up Chris Mort.

 

Give me Keegan before Mort anyday.

 

Keegan was the most football clued up person at the club. That makes him the person who should have dictated club policy. Like the Halls and Shepherd allowed him to be, at least until they became a PLC

 

 

[Parky]

Regarding Freddy Shepherd, I like many had lost complete faith in the man and believed his time was up as we were heading backwards at an alarming rate and in quite a few areas of the club, on the pitch and financially. But I was still prepared to give him one final chance to undo all the bad work he had done (he did do some good work I concede that, SJP etc.), and that chance came with the appointment of Sam Allardyce which for me suggested a shift in Shepherd's management of the club from a reactionary, hands on and too involved role to a more back-seat role, handing full control to the manager. He even admitted himself the club then needed it in terms of coaching staff, medical experts, scouting, new technology etc. I also suspect his ill-health played a role in that shift in mentality.

 

Because I rated Big Sam and considered him to be the ideal man for the job at the time, I was more than happy with the appointment and despite all of Shepherd's bad points and my lack of faith in the man I could at least see via the appointment that we had put in place a way if you like where we could get ourselves away from the Souness and Roeder induced mess and look towards a brighter future of health on and off the pitch, providing he backed Big Sam all the way (and not necessarily financially) of course which I think he would have done myself (support the manager).

 

But then Ashley entered the scene and changed all that.

 

A change I welcomed at the onset I have to admit. A change I even believed was for the best as although Shepherd with his appointment of Allardyce had showed he was at least willing to see the bigger picture, I still didn't feel too confident he was capable of delivering it.

 

So yes I was happy to see him go and in doing so almost endorsing the new owner and his plans which at the time appealed much like Big Sam's methods of sports psychology, fitness and diet, Pro-zone etc. and together the new owner, board and manager made a good start. While the players signed themselves were questionable (or some of them) Allardyce successfully unidentified all weak areas and dully strengthened them in a short space of time without mega money if not in quality then in quantity. Remember hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

At the time all I can say is that I was very happy with the appointment of Big Sam even under Shepherd, equally happy he had gone and been replaced by a seemingly intelligent and successful man in Ashley who had what seemed like good ideas, and our summer dealings in the transfer market.

 

And even though as the season wore on and results and performances were not the best, at times shockingly bad, I still had faith in the manager turning it all around and the new owner and board if they all stuck together and importantly stuck to their plans.

 

Then out of the blue Big Sam had been sacked. I say out of the blue he was under a lot of pressure and rumours he was this or that game away from the chop were rife, I thought he'd get until the end of the season at least.

 

What happened next didn't sit easy with me - chasing Redknapp. A decent enough manager in his own right but not a step up on Big Sam. That was the time when I first started questioning the new owner and board. Why replace with like for like. I never quite liked Redknap the character either and to be truthful I didn't want him at my club. For whatever reason though he never came, and in come King Kevin Keegan himself. Wow!

 

My head said no, big mistake, will not work etc. My heart said f*** yeah. KK back, a man I trust 100% and love (and still do by the way). Bring it on. I don't know what I thought about the new owner and board and their motives and intentions with that one, not at the time anyway, today I have a theory.

 

It didn't start so well under KK but as the end of the season drew close the football was good to watch, players were committed and Owen was playing as well as ever, and to top it all off we were performing and picking up points. The summer and following season promised so much.

 

Come the summer and start to the new season (opening with a fine performance and worthy point at Old Trafford) it all changed again. We all know what happened, we've been over it countless times so I won't go over it again.

 

All I will say and I don't think this can be denied, is that since that day, the whole management of the club in all areas has been nothing short of shambolic and a perfect example of ineptitude, mismanagement, and downright bad business. To such a point Ashley and co have proved themselves incapable of running this football club remotely well, even sticking to their own model or plans they still can't get things right. They have been a categoric failure of epic proportions to the extent that has the club teetering on relegation for the first time in our Premier League history. Yes we've been down there before and yes there have been scary moments but at no point have we been as listless as this. We've never known it this bad, not even under Shepherd, Souness, Roeder et al.

 

What all of this has taught me is that in terms of a manager, managing footballers and getting the right kind of backing is the key and not science, technology and even money which kind of got lost in between Souness and Big Sam. On the owner/board side what I've learned is that Freddy Shepherd for all his faults, mistakes and mismanagement of the club (and there were many), was a football man, a Newcastle United fan, who could at least see the bigger picture even if he was at times incapable of delivering it and yes, I would take him back in a blink of an eye over Ashley and co.

 

Now I'm not excusing his mistakes or mismanagement or making light of them because they were as we now know not as bad as Ashley's and seriously, he and his way of running the club isn't the answer and never was, not long-term as we were heading backwards and running on ill-health, but I do feel like a mug for punching the air in delight when he left.

 

I guess the biggest lesson in all of this is that the grass isn't always greener, be careful for what you wish for and that where NUFC is concerned, don't take anything for granted.

 

All I wish for now is for Ashley and his cronies to leave, for Kinnear to leave and get himself a decent job as he's a good man and a passionate football man who doesn't deserve these morons, for all those wasters on the playing staff to f*** off and for Newcastle United to be ran right, be it from the Premier League or Championship, I honestly don't care.

 

I can take Championship football, it is football after all, however I can't stomach witnessing players with hearts the size of atoms being paid ridiculous money to under perform and take the piss in our colors, a manager like Kinnear who hasn't a clue sitting in the dugout and above all else the morons above running affairs from some New York night club, a London Casino or another office away from SJP with no real idea of how to run the club. And to top it all off I can't stomach the utter dejection on and off the stands among those who only want what's best for their club, the only people who matter in all of this and the only people who really care, US LOT.

 

It won't happen any time soon and we could fall even further but Newcastle United will come good one day, once again. The day I stop having faith in the club itself or badge is the day I really do jack it all in. Thankfully I have plenty of faith in Newcastle United itself and equally those who support the club.

 

PS Welcome back HTL, good to see your name once again on the forum 

 

Big Sam was sacked that Jan cause he wanted and righly so, to spend in that window. He could see we needed two or three more players and iirc he was keen on Diarra.

[The Prophet]

People are still basing their posts on speculation, all we know is what can be seen through statements to the media and players that are transferred in and out of the club, the rest is just reading between the lines, an educated guess if you like. What we do is know is Freddy Shepherd would always and would sometimes recklessly back his managers. I was never a fan of the bloke but money was more than frequently spent, he was ambitious. When Ashley came in I welcomed him with open arms, a man who can take us to the very top, oh how wrong I was.

 

What Chelsea and Man City are now attempting to do is destroying the game, an un-level playing field is developing. But no matter how much I dislike what they are doing if you dream and have ambitions of reaching the very top, and you want to do it quickly you have got to spend money in vast amounts. Now I applaud Ashley's sentiments. To run an academy Arsenal-esque with a seemingly limitless conveyer belt of talent coming through the ranks but there are two observations to make about this: 1) Arsenal already had a title winning team when they began their youth development programme 2) They're struggling in the current climate.

 

So yes we'd all love to be run by Arsenal but they're going to have to spend money themselves, they're in serious danger of falling behind. So you look at Ashley's motives for wanting to run the club like this. I don't know if it was Mike who made the comment but I read somewhere that he wants to be able to buy players dirt cheap and flog them for a huge sell on value, in other words he wants a profit. Being a businessman this is understandable but that's the problem, he's a businessman, personally I feel his mistakes have come through not understanding the game properly.

 

But Ashley's been in the game for a season and a half now, he must know the climate, any old divvy can see the only way to the top is spending money, then once your at the top you start to reel in the profits, it's give and take. Ashley is still in a position where he can salvage the club. He's shown glimpses of showing ambition with the signing of Colo and the attempted signing of Modric but we need more. I'd love to do things the Arsenal way but right now we can't think about our long term future when our short term future is in such perilous danger. If Ashley really wants to show us he has ambition at this very moment there's only one way to do it, get the bloody cheque book out.

 

[Guest sicko2ndbest]

Regarding Freddy Shepherd, I like many had lost complete faith in the man and believed his time was up as we were heading backwards at an alarming rate and in quite a few areas of the club, on the pitch and financially. But I was still prepared to give him one final chance to undo all the bad work he had done (he did do some good work I concede that, SJP etc.), and that chance came with the appointment of Sam Allardyce which for me suggested a shift in Shepherd's management of the club from a reactionary, hands on and too involved role to a more back-seat role, handing full control to the manager. He even admitted himself the club then needed it in terms of coaching staff, medical experts, scouting, new technology etc. I also suspect his ill-health played a role in that shift in mentality.

 

Because I rated Big Sam and considered him to be the ideal man for the job at the time, I was more than happy with the appointment and despite all of Shepherd's bad points and my lack of faith in the man I could at least see via the appointment that we had put in place a way if you like where we could get ourselves away from the Souness and Roeder induced mess and look towards a brighter future of health on and off the pitch, providing he backed Big Sam all the way (and not necessarily financially) of course which I think he would have done myself (support the manager).

 

But then Ashley entered the scene and changed all that.

 

A change I welcomed at the onset I have to admit. A change I even believed was for the best as although Shepherd with his appointment of Allardyce had showed he was at least willing to see the bigger picture, I still didn't feel too confident he was capable of delivering it.

 

So yes I was happy to see him go and in doing so almost endorsing the new owner and his plans which at the time appealed much like Big Sam's methods of sports psychology, fitness and diet, Pro-zone etc. and together the new owner, board and manager made a good start. While the players signed themselves were questionable (or some of them) Allardyce successfully unidentified all weak areas and dully strengthened them in a short space of time without mega money if not in quality then in quantity. Remember hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

At the time all I can say is that I was very happy with the appointment of Big Sam even under Shepherd, equally happy he had gone and been replaced by a seemingly intelligent and successful man in Ashley who had what seemed like good ideas, and our summer dealings in the transfer market.

 

And even though as the season wore on and results and performances were not the best, at times shockingly bad, I still had faith in the manager turning it all around and the new owner and board if they all stuck together and importantly stuck to their plans.

 

Then out of the blue Big Sam had been sacked. I say out of the blue he was under a lot of pressure and rumours he was this or that game away from the chop were rife, I thought he'd get until the end of the season at least.

 

What happened next didn't sit easy with me - chasing Redknapp. A decent enough manager in his own right but not a step up on Big Sam. That was the time when I first started questioning the new owner and board. Why replace with like for like. I never quite liked Redknap the character either and to be truthful I didn't want him at my club. For whatever reason though he never came, and in come King Kevin Keegan himself. Wow!

 

My head said no, big mistake, will not work etc. My heart said f*** yeah. KK back, a man I trust 100% and love (and still do by the way). Bring it on. I don't know what I thought about the new owner and board and their motives and intentions with that one, not at the time anyway, today I have a theory.

 

It didn't start so well under KK but as the end of the season drew close the football was good to watch, players were committed and Owen was playing as well as ever, and to top it all off we were performing and picking up points. The summer and following season promised so much.

 

Come the summer and start to the new season (opening with a fine performance and worthy point at Old Trafford) it all changed again. We all know what happened, we've been over it countless times so I won't go over it again.

 

All I will say and I don't think this can be denied, is that since that day, the whole management of the club in all areas has been nothing short of shambolic and a perfect example of ineptitude, mismanagement, and downright bad business. To such a point Ashley and co have proved themselves incapable of running this football club remotely well, even sticking to their own model or plans they still can't get things right. They have been a categoric failure of epic proportions to the extent that has the club teetering on relegation for the first time in our Premier League history. Yes we've been down there before and yes there have been scary moments but at no point have we been as listless as this. We've never known it this bad, not even under Shepherd, Souness, Roeder et al.

 

What all of this has taught me is that in terms of a manager, managing footballers and getting the right kind of backing is the key and not science, technology and even money which kind of got lost in between Souness and Big Sam. On the owner/board side what I've learned is that Freddy Shepherd for all his faults, mistakes and mismanagement of the club (and there were many), was a football man, a Newcastle United fan, who could at least see the bigger picture even if he was at times incapable of delivering it and yes, I would take him back in a blink of an eye over Ashley and co.

 

Now I'm not excusing his mistakes or mismanagement or making light of them because they were as we now know not as bad as Ashley's and seriously, he and his way of running the club isn't the answer and never was, not long-term as we were heading backwards and running on ill-health, but I do feel like a mug for punching the air in delight when he left.

 

I guess the biggest lesson in all of this is that the grass isn't always greener, be careful for what you wish for and that where NUFC is concerned, don't take anything for granted.

 

All I wish for now is for Ashley and his cronies to leave, for Kinnear to leave and get himself a decent job as he's a good man and a passionate football man who doesn't deserve these morons, for all those wasters on the playing staff to f*** off and for Newcastle United to be ran right, be it from the Premier League or Championship, I honestly don't care.

 

I can take Championship football, it is football after all, however I can't stomach witnessing players with hearts the size of atoms being paid ridiculous money to under perform and take the piss in our colors, a manager like Kinnear who hasn't a clue sitting in the dugout and above all else the morons above running affairs from some New York night club, a London Casino or another office away from SJP with no real idea of how to run the club. And to top it all off I can't stomach the utter dejection on and off the stands among those who only want what's best for their club, the only people who matter in all of this and the only people who really care, US LOT.

 

It won't happen any time soon and we could fall even further but Newcastle United will come good one day, once again. The day I stop having faith in the club itself or badge is the day I really do jack it all in. Thankfully I have plenty of faith in Newcastle United itself and equally those who support the club.

 

PS Welcome back HTL, good to see your name once again on the forum 

 

Can't say i disagree with a lot there HTT

[Guest Howaythetoon]

People are still basing their posts on speculation, all we know is what can be seen through statements to the media and players that are transferred in and out of the club, the rest is just reading between the lines, an educated guess if you like. What we do is know is Freddy Shepherd would always and would sometimes recklessly back his managers. I was never a fan of the bloke but money was more than frequently spent, he was ambitious. When Ashley came in I welcomed him with open arms, a man who can take us to the very top, oh how wrong I was.

 

What Chelsea and Man City are now attempting to do is destroying the game, an un-level playing field is developing. But no matter how much I dislike what they are doing if you dream and have ambitions of reaching the very top, and you want to do it quickly you have got to spend money in vast amounts. Now I applaud Ashley's sentiments. To run an academy Arsenal-esque with a seemingly limitless conveyer belt of talent coming through the ranks but there are two observations to make about this: 1) Arsenal already had a title winning team when they began their youth development programme 2) They're struggling in the current climate.

 

So yes we'd all love to be run by Arsenal but they're going to have to spend money themselves, they're in serious danger of falling behind. So you look at Ashley's motives for wanting to run the club like this. I don't know if it was Mike who made the comment but I read somewhere that he wants to be able to buy players dirt cheap and flog them for a huge sell on value, in other words he wants a profit. Being a businessman this is understandable but that's the problem, he's a businessman, personally I feel his mistakes have come through not understanding the game properly.

 

But Ashley's been in the game for a season and a half now, he must know the climate, any old divvy can see the only way to the top is spending money, then once your at the top you start to reel in the profits, it's give and take. Ashley is still in a position where he can salvage the club. He's shown glimpses of showing ambition with the signing of Colo and the attempted signing of Modric but we need more. I'd love to do things the Arsenal way but right now we can't think about our long term future when our short term future is in such perilous danger. If Ashley really wants to show us he has ambition at this very moment there's only one way to do it, get the bloody cheque book out.

 

 

Good post. However I doubt we'll be seeing any significant investment if at all on the playing side because Ashley simply isn't committed to the club. He's here to get his money back before leaving. By spending more of his money on players, he's only going to increase what he's owed back and thus the already difficult task of getting his money back. The reason why we haven't bought anyone is because the only money available to Kinnear is from any that comes in via player sales and that hasn't happened.

 

He could salvage the club of course, but to do that would require commitment and doing away with the system he has in place, the people responsible for that, dispensing with Kinnear, replacing him with a good manager and backing that manager with cash. That just isn't going to happen. The club won't be turned around until he leaves and he ain't leaving until he gets his money back.

[timnufc22]

People are still basing their posts on speculation, all we know is what can be seen through statements to the media and players that are transferred in and out of the club, the rest is just reading between the lines, an educated guess if you like. What we do is know is Freddy Shepherd would always and would sometimes recklessly back his managers. I was never a fan of the bloke but money was more than frequently spent, he was ambitious. When Ashley came in I welcomed him with open arms, a man who can take us to the very top, oh how wrong I was.

 

What Chelsea and Man City are now attempting to do is destroying the game, an un-level playing field is developing. But no matter how much I dislike what they are doing if you dream and have ambitions of reaching the very top, and you want to do it quickly you have got to spend money in vast amounts. Now I applaud Ashley's sentiments. To run an academy Arsenal-esque with a seemingly limitless conveyer belt of talent coming through the ranks but there are two observations to make about this: 1) Arsenal already had a title winning team when they began their youth development programme 2) They're struggling in the current climate.

 

So yes we'd all love to be run by Arsenal but they're going to have to spend money themselves, they're in serious danger of falling behind. So you look at Ashley's motives for wanting to run the club like this. I don't know if it was Mike who made the comment but I read somewhere that he wants to be able to buy players dirt cheap and flog them for a huge sell on value, in other words he wants a profit. Being a businessman this is understandable but that's the problem, he's a businessman, personally I feel his mistakes have come through not understanding the game properly.

 

But Ashley's been in the game for a season and a half now, he must know the climate, any old divvy can see the only way to the top is spending money, then once your at the top you start to reel in the profits, it's give and take. Ashley is still in a position where he can salvage the club. He's shown glimpses of showing ambition with the signing of Colo and the attempted signing of Modric but we need more. I'd love to do things the Arsenal way but right now we can't think about our long term future when our short term future is in such perilous danger. If Ashley really wants to show us he has ambition at this very moment there's only one way to do it, get the bloody cheque book out.

 

 

Good post. However I doubt we'll be seeing any significant investment if at all on the playing side because Ashley simply isn't committed to the club. He's here to get his money back before leaving. By spending more of his money on players, he's only going to increase what he's owed back and thus the already difficult task of getting his money back. The reason why we haven't bought anyone is because the only money available to Kinnear is from any that comes in via player sales and that hasn't happened.

 

He could salvage the club of course, but to do that would require commitment and doing away with the system he has in place, the people responsible for that, dispensing with Kinnear, replacing him with a good manager and backing that manager with cash. That just isn't going to happen. The club won't be turned around until he leaves and he ain't leaving until he gets his money back.

 

Do you think he would consider a cut-price in the summer if most fans boycotted the games? (whether it'll happen is another thing obiously)

[Guest Howaythetoon]

People are still basing their posts on speculation, all we know is what can be seen through statements to the media and players that are transferred in and out of the club, the rest is just reading between the lines, an educated guess if you like. What we do is know is Freddy Shepherd would always and would sometimes recklessly back his managers. I was never a fan of the bloke but money was more than frequently spent, he was ambitious. When Ashley came in I welcomed him with open arms, a man who can take us to the very top, oh how wrong I was.

 

What Chelsea and Man City are now attempting to do is destroying the game, an un-level playing field is developing. But no matter how much I dislike what they are doing if you dream and have ambitions of reaching the very top, and you want to do it quickly you have got to spend money in vast amounts. Now I applaud Ashley's sentiments. To run an academy Arsenal-esque with a seemingly limitless conveyer belt of talent coming through the ranks but there are two observations to make about this: 1) Arsenal already had a title winning team when they began their youth development programme 2) They're struggling in the current climate.

 

So yes we'd all love to be run by Arsenal but they're going to have to spend money themselves, they're in serious danger of falling behind. So you look at Ashley's motives for wanting to run the club like this. I don't know if it was Mike who made the comment but I read somewhere that he wants to be able to buy players dirt cheap and flog them for a huge sell on value, in other words he wants a profit. Being a businessman this is understandable but that's the problem, he's a businessman, personally I feel his mistakes have come through not understanding the game properly.

 

But Ashley's been in the game for a season and a half now, he must know the climate, any old divvy can see the only way to the top is spending money, then once your at the top you start to reel in the profits, it's give and take. Ashley is still in a position where he can salvage the club. He's shown glimpses of showing ambition with the signing of Colo and the attempted signing of Modric but we need more. I'd love to do things the Arsenal way but right now we can't think about our long term future when our short term future is in such perilous danger. If Ashley really wants to show us he has ambition at this very moment there's only one way to do it, get the bloody cheque book out.

 

 

Good post. However I doubt we'll be seeing any significant investment if at all on the playing side because Ashley simply isn't committed to the club. He's here to get his money back before leaving. By spending more of his money on players, he's only going to increase what he's owed back and thus the already difficult task of getting his money back. The reason why we haven't bought anyone is because the only money available to Kinnear is from any that comes in via player sales and that hasn't happened.

 

He could salvage the club of course, but to do that would require commitment and doing away with the system he has in place, the people responsible for that, dispensing with Kinnear, replacing him with a good manager and backing that manager with cash. That just isn't going to happen. The club won't be turned around until he leaves and he ain't leaving until he gets his money back.

 

Do you think he would consider a cut-price in the summer if most fans boycotted the games? (whether it'll happen is another thing obiously)

 

I honestly don't know.

[Dr Venkman]

People are still basing their posts on speculation, all we know is what can be seen through statements to the media and players that are transferred in and out of the club, the rest is just reading between the lines, an educated guess if you like. What we do is know is Freddy Shepherd would always and would sometimes recklessly back his managers. I was never a fan of the bloke but money was more than frequently spent, he was ambitious. When Ashley came in I welcomed him with open arms, a man who can take us to the very top, oh how wrong I was.

 

What Chelsea and Man City are now attempting to do is destroying the game, an un-level playing field is developing. But no matter how much I dislike what they are doing if you dream and have ambitions of reaching the very top, and you want to do it quickly you have got to spend money in vast amounts. Now I applaud Ashley's sentiments. To run an academy Arsenal-esque with a seemingly limitless conveyer belt of talent coming through the ranks but there are two observations to make about this: 1) Arsenal already had a title winning team when they began their youth development programme 2) They're struggling in the current climate.

 

So yes we'd all love to be run by Arsenal but they're going to have to spend money themselves, they're in serious danger of falling behind. So you look at Ashley's motives for wanting to run the club like this. I don't know if it was Mike who made the comment but I read somewhere that he wants to be able to buy players dirt cheap and flog them for a huge sell on value, in other words he wants a profit. Being a businessman this is understandable but that's the problem, he's a businessman, personally I feel his mistakes have come through not understanding the game properly.

 

But Ashley's been in the game for a season and a half now, he must know the climate, any old divvy can see the only way to the top is spending money, then once your at the top you start to reel in the profits, it's give and take. Ashley is still in a position where he can salvage the club. He's shown glimpses of showing ambition with the signing of Colo and the attempted signing of Modric but we need more. I'd love to do things the Arsenal way but right now we can't think about our long term future when our short term future is in such perilous danger. If Ashley really wants to show us he has ambition at this very moment there's only one way to do it, get the bloody cheque book out.

 

 

Good post. However I doubt we'll be seeing any significant investment if at all on the playing side because Ashley simply isn't committed to the club. He's here to get his money back before leaving. By spending more of his money on players, he's only going to increase what he's owed back and thus the already difficult task of getting his money back. The reason why we haven't bought anyone is because the only money available to Kinnear is from any that comes in via player sales and that hasn't happened.

 

He could salvage the club of course, but to do that would require commitment and doing away with the system he has in place, the people responsible for that, dispensing with Kinnear, replacing him with a good manager and backing that manager with cash. That just isn't going to happen. The club won't be turned around until he leaves and he ain't leaving until he gets his money back.

 

Do you think he would consider a cut-price in the summer if most fans boycotted the games? (whether it'll happen is another thing obiously)

 

its happening, he isnt getting another penny from me

[Syrette]

The thing that a lot of people seem to forget about Shepherd is just how long he was at the club in comparison to Ashley.

 

With the time he had, you're going to get a lot right. And naturally you're also susceptible to getting a fair bit wrong too.

[TRon]

I would agree that Sheherd was more ambitious than Ashley but it wasn't doing us much good by the time he left. I don't see how he could have funded the spending required to keep up with the big boys without putting us into further debt. If he had that sort of money he'd be in for the club when it was up for sale rather than chasing after some second rate Spanish club for 10 or 20 million.

 

The truth is when Hall and Sheperd floated the club on the stock market they were signalling their intention to cash in at some point which is what they did. They cashed in their chips for lots of loot and left for Spain and sunshine.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

The thing that a lot of people seem to forget about Shepherd is just how long he was at the club in comparison to Ashley.

 

With the time he had, you're going to get a right. And naturally you're also susceptible to getting a fair bit wrong too.

 

That's right and you could also argue that Ashley took over from a much worse position than the one Shepherd took over. However none of that can't be used as an excuse or to defend Ashley's mismanagement of the club which has seen it sink to its lowest depths since Sir John Hall first took control back in the early 90s. Mismanagement which is mostly self inflicted to such an extent Shepherd can now no longer be held accountable for the state of the club today, not in my opinion anyway. Of course elements of the malaise is deep rooted but Ashley has overseen 3 managers now and 4 transfer windows, more than a window or two of opportunity to rid the club of all malaise. Instead he's just added to it and by some degree too.

 

With the same time Shepherd had could Ashley turn the club around and get some things right? Absolutely but that is as likely as Newcastle ending the season as Champions now, and for a number of reasons.

 

Make no mistake about it Mike Ashley wants nothing to do with the day-to-day running of NUFC much less its future, he only wants his money back and he'll get it in time, one way or another, and he knows it.

 

For the club that spells disaster for all kinds of reasons:

 

No money to spend on new players or existing players

No real long-term stability

No direction and leadership

No future

 

Not a future we can hang the shirt on anyway.

 

I'm all ears to a brighter future under Ashley by the way, but I can't see it myself. 

[NE5]

Regarding Freddy Shepherd, I like many had lost complete faith in the man and believed his time was up as we were heading backwards at an alarming rate and in quite a few areas of the club, on the pitch and financially. But I was still prepared to give him one final chance to undo all the bad work he had done (he did do some good work I concede that, SJP etc.), and that chance came with the appointment of Sam Allardyce which for me suggested a shift in Shepherd's management of the club from a reactionary, hands on and too involved role to a more back-seat role, handing full control to the manager. He even admitted himself the club then needed it in terms of coaching staff, medical experts, scouting, new technology etc. I also suspect his ill-health played a role in that shift in mentality.

 

Because I rated Big Sam and considered him to be the ideal man for the job at the time, I was more than happy with the appointment and despite all of Shepherd's bad points and my lack of faith in the man I could at least see via the appointment that we had put in place a way if you like where we could get ourselves away from the Souness and Roeder induced mess and look towards a brighter future of health on and off the pitch, providing he backed Big Sam all the way (and not necessarily financially) of course which I think he would have done myself (support the manager).

 

But then Ashley entered the scene and changed all that.

 

A change I welcomed at the onset I have to admit. A change I even believed was for the best as although Shepherd with his appointment of Allardyce had showed he was at least willing to see the bigger picture, I still didn't feel too confident he was capable of delivering it.

 

So yes I was happy to see him go and in doing so almost endorsing the new owner and his plans which at the time appealed much like Big Sam's methods of sports psychology, fitness and diet, Pro-zone etc. and together the new owner, board and manager made a good start. While the players signed themselves were questionable (or some of them) Allardyce successfully unidentified all weak areas and dully strengthened them in a short space of time without mega money if not in quality then in quantity. Remember hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

At the time all I can say is that I was very happy with the appointment of Big Sam even under Shepherd, equally happy he had gone and been replaced by a seemingly intelligent and successful man in Ashley who had what seemed like good ideas, and our summer dealings in the transfer market.

 

And even though as the season wore on and results and performances were not the best, at times shockingly bad, I still had faith in the manager turning it all around and the new owner and board if they all stuck together and importantly stuck to their plans.

 

Then out of the blue Big Sam had been sacked. I say out of the blue he was under a lot of pressure and rumours he was this or that game away from the chop were rife, I thought he'd get until the end of the season at least.

 

What happened next didn't sit easy with me - chasing Redknapp. A decent enough manager in his own right but not a step up on Big Sam. That was the time when I first started questioning the new owner and board. Why replace with like for like. I never quite liked Redknap the character either and to be truthful I didn't want him at my club. For whatever reason though he never came, and in come King Kevin Keegan himself. Wow!

 

My head said no, big mistake, will not work etc. My heart said f*** yeah. KK back, a man I trust 100% and love (and still do by the way). Bring it on. I don't know what I thought about the new owner and board and their motives and intentions with that one, not at the time anyway, today I have a theory.

 

It didn't start so well under KK but as the end of the season drew close the football was good to watch, players were committed and Owen was playing as well as ever, and to top it all off we were performing and picking up points. The summer and following season promised so much.

 

Come the summer and start to the new season (opening with a fine performance and worthy point at Old Trafford) it all changed again. We all know what happened, we've been over it countless times so I won't go over it again.

 

All I will say and I don't think this can be denied, is that since that day, the whole management of the club in all areas has been nothing short of shambolic and a perfect example of ineptitude, mismanagement, and downright bad business. To such a point Ashley and co have proved themselves incapable of running this football club remotely well, even sticking to their own model or plans they still can't get things right. They have been a categoric failure of epic proportions to the extent that has the club teetering on relegation for the first time in our Premier League history. Yes we've been down there before and yes there have been scary moments but at no point have we been as listless as this. We've never known it this bad, not even under Shepherd, Souness, Roeder et al.

 

What all of this has taught me is that in terms of a manager, managing footballers and getting the right kind of backing is the key and not science, technology and even money which kind of got lost in between Souness and Big Sam. On the owner/board side what I've learned is that Freddy Shepherd for all his faults, mistakes and mismanagement of the club (and there were many), was a football man, a Newcastle United fan, who could at least see the bigger picture even if he was at times incapable of delivering it and yes, I would take him back in a blink of an eye over Ashley and co.

 

Now I'm not excusing his mistakes or mismanagement or making light of them because they were as we now know not as bad as Ashley's and seriously, he and his way of running the club isn't the answer and never was, not long-term as we were heading backwards and running on ill-health, but I do feel like a mug for punching the air in delight when he left.

 

I guess the biggest lesson in all of this is that the grass isn't always greener, be careful for what you wish for and that where NUFC is concerned, don't take anything for granted.

 

All I wish for now is for Ashley and his cronies to leave, for Kinnear to leave and get himself a decent job as he's a good man and a passionate football man who doesn't deserve these morons, for all those wasters on the playing staff to f*** off and for Newcastle United to be ran right, be it from the Premier League or Championship, I honestly don't care.

 

I can take Championship football, it is football after all, however I can't stomach witnessing players with hearts the size of atoms being paid ridiculous money to under perform and take the piss in our colors, a manager like Kinnear who hasn't a clue sitting in the dugout and above all else the morons above running affairs from some New York night club, a London Casino or another office away from SJP with no real idea of how to run the club. And to top it all off I can't stomach the utter dejection on and off the stands among those who only want what's best for their club, the only people who matter in all of this and the only people who really care, US LOT.

 

It won't happen any time soon and we could fall even further but Newcastle United will come good one day, once again. The day I stop having faith in the club itself or badge is the day I really do jack it all in. Thankfully I have plenty of faith in Newcastle United itself and equally those who support the club.

 

PS Welcome back HTL, good to see your name once again on the forum 

 

can't say fairer than that and the bit in bold is spot on

 

 

[NE5]

The thing that a lot of people seem to forget about Shepherd is just how long he was at the club in comparison to Ashley.

 

With the time he had, you're going to get a lot right. And naturally you're also susceptible to getting a fair bit wrong too.

 

thats rubbish RM. As in managers, it isn't stability that brings success, its success that brings stability. The Halls and Shepherd ran the club for 15 years, and for the most part it was top quality stuff, with european competition, good league positions, capacity crowds, a couple of Cup Finals and top quality footballers brought into the club.

 

Simple fact is if Ashley had just delivered a few of those things, by backing his managers, he too would still be here.

 

 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

it isn't stability that brings success, its success that brings stability.

 

 

I like that quote.

[Mick]

I really don’t know where to start with this thread, it’s so one sided and lacking in reality that it’s laughable.

 

18 months or so and we’re rapidly going downhill, don’t make me laugh, today we’re 1 place lower in the league than when he bought the club.  Honestly, some people need to take a few minutes to think before typing. 

 

People would want Shepherd back would they?  Brilliant because 18 months after he became chairman and Keegan first walked we were 11 places lower in the league than when Keegan or Sir John left us but we gave Shepherd a chance to put it right.  I know the 18 months for both cover different periods but the end of that time is brings the same result.

 

We didn’t make banners calling for his head, we didn’t force anybody to put the club up for sale, and we allowed them a chance to get it right.

 

Kinnear is here because we forced the owner to put the club up for sale and made the managers job one that nobody worth his salt would take on knowing that he’s probably be looking for another club if a sale went through.

 

Don’t tell me we could spend our way out of trouble because we tried that with Souness and all we did was spend our way into it.  We’re roughly 5,000 down on gates but season ticket sales were complete before Keegan left so the chances are that the 5,000 would have been gone no matter who was here.  We had 47,000 when Keegan had his only home game of this season and we've had that sort of figure 6 times since that game.

 

And as for appointing a manager to get us out of trouble, Allardyce would have been the same as he was anyway, he was given money to spend and he still failed because he bought some shite and even and couldn’t get the players to play for him.  Do we have to change history and forget that Allardyce brought us Viduka who had a history of sick notes, Smith who couldn’t hit a cow’s arse with a barn door?  Rozenhal was so light weight that he was forced out within months.  Geremi, a player who Sir Bobby informed the club that at Chelsea he was said to have the legs of a 40 year old.  Oh, and he also brought us Cacapa who seems to have older legs than Geremi’s.

 

The last 18 months have been anything but good, nobody could argue otherwise.  If anybody thinks that we could have been better off if things had stayed the same then based on what?

 

All I’ve seen in this thread is an attempt to change history.

[NE5]

it isn't stability that brings success, its success that brings stability.

 

 

I like that quote.

 

are your pm's working 

[Liam Liam Liam O]

I really dont know where to start with this thread, its so one sided and lacking in reality that its laughable.

 

18 months or so and were rapidly going downhill, dont make me laugh, today were 1 place lower in the league than when he bought the club.  Honestly, some people need to take a few minutes to think before typing. 

 

People would want Shepherd back would they?  Brilliant because 18 months after he became chairman and Keegan first walked we were 11 places lower in the league than when Keegan or Sir John left us but we gave Shepherd a chance to put it right.  I know the 18 months for both cover different periods but the end of that time is brings the same result.

 

We didnt make banners calling for his head, we didnt force anybody to put the club up for sale, and we allowed them a chance to get it right.

 

Kinnear is here because we forced the owner to put the club up for sale and made the managers job one that nobody worth his salt would take on knowing that hes probably be looking for another club if a sale went through.

 

Dont tell me we could spend our way out of trouble because we tried that with Souness and all we did was spend our way into it.  Were roughly 5,000 down on gates but season ticket sales were complete before Keegan left so the chances are that the 5,000 would have been gone no matter who was here.  We had 47,000 when Keegan had his only home game of this season and we've had that sort of figure 6 times since that game.

 

And as for appointing a manager to get us out of trouble, Allardyce would have been the same as he was anyway, he was given money to spend and he still failed because he bought some shite and even and couldnt get the players to play for him.  Do we have to change history and forget that Allardyce brought us Viduka who had a history of sick notes, Smith who couldnt hit a cows arse with a barn door?  Rozenhal was so light weight that he was forced out within months.  Geremi, a player who Sir Bobby informed the club that at Chelsea he was said to have the legs of a 40 year old.  Oh, and he also brought us Cacapa who seems to have older legs than Geremis.

 

The last 18 months have been anything but good, nobody could argue otherwise.  If anybody thinks that we could have been better off if things had stayed the same then based on what?

 

All Ive seen in this thread is an attempt to change history.

 

Excellent post Mick.