Guest black n white Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 a few questions for you people in the know can anybody tell me what would have happened if we did go under would freddy have remained in charge? would the club be owned by the taxpayer? how would the club be run? how much money would the club lose if we went down? are the parachute payments still 20 mill? how is the club valued?( how much is it actually worth) imo ashley dropped his arse once man city was taken over by the arabs, we like other teams should have been challenging for fifth spot...but these people are losing trillions in cash yet its not a problem to buy kaka and sorry if this sounds idiotic but for ashley to choose wise over kk basically says to me that wise was on a bigger contract thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 a few questions for you people in the know can anybody tell me what would have happened if we did go under would freddy have remained in charge? would the club be owned by the taxpayer? how would the club be run? how much money would the club lose if we went down? are the parachute payments still 20 mill? how is the club valued?( how much is it actually worth) imo ashley dropped his arse once man city was taken over by the arabs, we like other teams should have been challenging for fifth spot...but these people are losing trillions in cash yet its not a problem to buy kaka and sorry if this sounds idiotic but for ashley to choose wise over kk basically says to me that wise was on a bigger contract thanks No No No No idea No idea Don't know You wouldn't understand Nonsense It is and does. You're welcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Or a looming recession which Mike Ashley pays analysts to look out for with his retail business. The protests were just a perfect ready made excuse for him. Ever since he took over not a week went by without the media reporting him wanting to sell the club or this and that party being interested, were they all wrong or indeed wrong full stop? Here's what I think... He made a killing on the SE with Sports Direct and with this new found wealth he thought "I know, I'll get myself a new toy, a football club. I could even tie it in with my Sports Shop - brilliant" so off he went looking for a football club, coming across NUFC. "I'll have it" he said, snapping up shares right left and centre. He was so eager he even forgot to do due diligence. Doh! Carrying out an internal review one day he found out his new toy was in a s*** load of debt. "Hey, I'm rich, I'll pay it off" and so he did. Or did he? Never mind. Meanwhile at Wembley England were losing to Croatia and in doing so had failed to qualify for the Euros. "Bummer", Mike thought to himself. Big footy competitions were to Sports Direct what sun cream is to holiday makers - they go hand in hand. Already knocked for six, over at HQ SD his analysts had more bad news for him with reports that the country, nay, make that the world, was heading for a recession pretty soon. "Time to get rid of bad debts Mike me old mucker and put some money away", an analyst was overhead telling him. And that's where KK came in. If you're going to sell a car you want to get it valeted, maybe throw on some new tires and a new exhaust to spruce it up a little, make it look and sound better. Well that's what KK was, a unique selling point. Only he didn't tell KK that. No, instead he promised him big money to spend and told him about his grande plans for the club. In the meantime in came Wise and co to run the club for him while he went and bought himself a KK shirt so he could sit with the fans. Wise and co of course, left to their own devices and instructed to spend as less as possible of the owner's and club's money, had a f***ing field day until KK confronted them one day and told them he couldn't work this way and off he went. And where was Ashley? Getting pissed in New York while trying to flog the club. The recession was looming long before Ashley bought the club, Northern Rock were nationalised within months of the club changing hands and the financial news had been all doom and gloom for months before that. If Ashley was looking to sell, why was he accused of failing to answer his phone when the Man City owners were looking for a club? When was Ashley getting pissed in New Yory while trying to sell the club? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest black n white Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 a few questions for you people in the know can anybody tell me what would have happened if we did go under would freddy have remained in charge? would the club be owned by the taxpayer? how would the club be run? how much money would the club lose if we went down? are the parachute payments still 20 mill? how is the club valued?( how much is it actually worth) imo ashley dropped his arse once man city was taken over by the arabs, we like other teams should have been challenging for fifth spot...but these people are losing trillions in cash yet its not a problem to buy kaka and sorry if this sounds idiotic but for ashley to choose wise over kk basically says to me that wise was on a bigger contract thanks No No No No idea No idea Don't know You wouldn't understand Nonsense It is and does. You're welcome. read the first line "people in the know" would'nt understand then enlighten me season tickets/turnstile sales sky premier league stadium and the land its built on sponsorship Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 a few questions for you people in the know can anybody tell me what would have happened if we did go under would freddy have remained in charge? would the club be owned by the taxpayer? how would the club be run? how much money would the club lose if we went down? are the parachute payments still 20 mill? how is the club valued?( how much is it actually worth) imo ashley dropped his arse once man city was taken over by the arabs, we like other teams should have been challenging for fifth spot...but these people are losing trillions in cash yet its not a problem to buy kaka and sorry if this sounds idiotic but for ashley to choose wise over kk basically says to me that wise was on a bigger contract thanks No No No No idea No idea Don't know You wouldn't understand Nonsense It is and does. You're welcome. read the first line "people in the know" would'nt understand then enlighten me season tickets/turnstile sales sky premier league stadium and the land its built on sponsorship In terms of most of the questions you've asked I'm probably more "in the know" than most people on here I can recommend some decent books if you're really interested in company valuations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFunk Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 it isn't stability that brings success, its success that brings stability. I like that quote. Bollocks. The quote sounds nice, and the sentiment is correct. But it needs to be bound by time. Success in how long? Immediate success? long term success? If it's long term success, then it means the stability came before the success. Flawed argument without the definition of a time scale. This is why, imo, the cliche'd "5 year plan" is essential as a measuring tool for where we were before say a takeover, or new manager, where we are now, and how we're doing relative to the plan in place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 a few questions for you people in the know can anybody tell me what would have happened if we did go under would freddy have remained in charge? would the club be owned by the taxpayer? how would the club be run? how much money would the club lose if we went down? are the parachute payments still 20 mill? how is the club valued?( how much is it actually worth) imo ashley dropped his arse once man city was taken over by the arabs, we like other teams should have been challenging for fifth spot...but these people are losing trillions in cash yet its not a problem to buy kaka and sorry if this sounds idiotic but for ashley to choose wise over kk basically says to me that wise was on a bigger contract thanks I don't claim to be ITK but here goes: If a club goes into administration then they automatically have points docked, I think it's currently a 10-point deduction. As for your second question, it's possible because Bates remained in charge when Leeds had problems. Third answer is no. Fourth answer, it's impossible to know. Fifth answer, it's impossible to know. The Parachute payment was £11.2 million per year for two seasons, it may have gone up this year. The value of the club is basically how much somebody is willing to pay for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest black n white Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 aye defo, thanks is any of the infornation above accessible by the public and is it just case that nobody would know what would of happened if the club had of went under Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikri Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 a few questions for you people in the know can anybody tell me what would have happened if we did go under would freddy have remained in charge? Highly, highly unlikely. Official administrators would have been placed in charge of the club and they would be in charge of the day-to-day running of the club would the club be owned by the taxpayer? No, it would be owned by those the club owed money to, the banks basically how would the club be run? The clubs creditors would do what they could to recoup any money owed to them, players would be sold off & debts restructured how much money would the club lose if we went down? are the parachute payments still 20 mill? A lot, not sure how much the parachute payments are nowadays but they're a fraction of what you'd earn in the Premiership how is the club valued?( how much is it actually worth) How long is a piece of string. Whilst the club was a PLC the value was effectively determined by the share price, with a single owner the price is determined by how much he wants for it. It's unlikely that Ashley would value the club at anything less than what he paid for it + how much money he's put into it since then, roughly £240 million at a guess imo ashley dropped his arse once man city was taken over by the arabs, we like other teams should have been challenging for fifth spot...but these people are losing trillions in cash yet its not a problem to buy kaka At the time the club was looking in decent shape & a trillionaire buyer didn't appear necessary and sorry if this sounds idiotic but for ashley to choose wise over kk basically says to me that wise was on a bigger contract Ashley didn't, Derek Llambias did. Ashley appointed one of his mates to run the club (his biggest fuck-up IMO) & it was Llambias who sided with Wise. Ashley did, by all accounts, try to get KK to return to the club just before the Hull game. I don't want to paint Mike Ashley as some sort of saint, but he's not the devil either thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Mongo Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 it isn't stability that brings success, its success that brings stability. I like that quote. Yes, but it's not true. Blackburn is a good example. Success took years of stability for them, but the success wasn't followed by stability. It would be more correct to say progress brings stability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest black n white Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 sorry for ruining you thread htl, its just that imo the words mike ashley and ambition dont go together i would of said consolidation is more the word, i agree with most of what you had to say, soul destroying is spot on though i am becoming numb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I really don’t know where to start with this thread, it’s so one sided and lacking in reality that it’s laughable. 18 months or so and we’re rapidly going downhill, don’t make me laugh, today we’re 1 place lower in the league than when he bought the club. Honestly, some people need to take a few minutes to think before typing. People would want Shepherd back would they? Brilliant because 18 months after he became chairman and Keegan first walked we were 11 places lower in the league than when Keegan or Sir John left us but we gave Shepherd a chance to put it right. I know the 18 months for both cover different periods but the end of that time is brings the same result. We didn’t make banners calling for his head, we didn’t force anybody to put the club up for sale, and we allowed them a chance to get it right. Kinnear is here because we forced the owner to put the club up for sale and made the managers job one that nobody worth his salt would take on knowing that he’s probably be looking for another club if a sale went through. Don’t tell me we could spend our way out of trouble because we tried that with Souness and all we did was spend our way into it. We’re roughly 5,000 down on gates but season ticket sales were complete before Keegan left so the chances are that the 5,000 would have been gone no matter who was here. We had 47,000 when Keegan had his only home game of this season and we've had that sort of figure 6 times since that game. And as for appointing a manager to get us out of trouble, Allardyce would have been the same as he was anyway, he was given money to spend and he still failed because he bought some shite and even and couldn’t get the players to play for him. Do we have to change history and forget that Allardyce brought us Viduka who had a history of sick notes, Smith who couldn’t hit a cow’s arse with a barn door? Rozenhal was so light weight that he was forced out within months. Geremi, a player who Sir Bobby informed the club that at Chelsea he was said to have the legs of a 40 year old. Oh, and he also brought us Cacapa who seems to have older legs than Geremi’s. The last 18 months have been anything but good, nobody could argue otherwise. If anybody thinks that we could have been better off if things had stayed the same then based on what? All I’ve seen in this thread is an attempt to change history. haha, you still insist that one person with less than 30% of shares makes all these appointments then tells everybody about it later. You still defend the worst owner we have had in decades - because he hasn't "embarrassed" you yet - never mind, the way soopa mike is going it won't be too long before you will be wanting someone to come along and save the club just like the Halls and Shepherd did in 1992. I've long suspected you didn't really support the club back then and with every post you make expressing sentiments like this post you have just made, only re-inforces that impression. There is nothing that can change history, look at the league positions, the state of the ground, the esteem the club was held in inside the game, the crowds, anything you can think of pre-1992. Its people like you who change history ie the absurd notion you tried to peddle once that the Halls and Shepherd were "just the same" as their predecessors and the equally absurd picture you tried to paint that the club wasn't any better than when making excuses for Waddle, Gazza and Beardsley all wanting to leave the club to further their careers, like Shay Given may do now. Fact is, people like you wanted rid of fat fred for anyone because he "embarrassed" you, but you are now looking at a team on its way back to where the Halls and shepherd found it, and unless someone picks it up are going to be embarrassed a lot more than you were watching a team that qualified for europe regularly and was an established top division club. Take my word for it, if its alll going to be a new experience for you. personally i wanted rid of him because he proved himself to be utterly inept and was very very bad for the club, maybe micks motivation was different though? after all you would know, wouldnt you? so you think qualifying for europe more than everybody bar 4 clubs, filling the stadium, reaching a couple of Cup Finals, playing in the Champions League, attracting top players to the club including Englands main goalscorer, "is inept" do you ? The whole problem with people like you is that you just don't see or understand the reality of football and ambition in football, and even worse is we now have an owner who is showing you exactly how crucial it is, and you STILL don't get it. the whole problem with YOU is that you think because i didnt approve of shepherd that i automatically think ashley is great, i dont, and neither do others. so stop telling us what we think. i think shepherd's a muppet and so far ashley's been a disaster, do you get that? well, lets hope we get someone running the club asap who backs their managers and gets us back into europe rather than relegation. If you call that being a muppet, its your opinion, but I wonder what you would think of a muppet if we really had one. Oh, wait a moment .......... backing managers and getting us into europe doesnt count as muppetry in my book mate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest black n white Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 a few questions for you people in the know can anybody tell me what would have happened if we did go under would freddy have remained in charge? would the club be owned by the taxpayer? how would the club be run? how much money would the club lose if we went down? are the parachute payments still 20 mill? how is the club valued?( how much is it actually worth) imo ashley dropped his arse once man city was taken over by the arabs, we like other teams should have been challenging for fifth spot...but these people are losing trillions in cash yet its not a problem to buy kaka and sorry if this sounds idiotic but for ashley to choose wise over kk basically says to me that wise was on a bigger contract thanks I don't claim to be ITK but here goes: If a club goes into administration then they automatically have points docked, I think it's currently a 10-point deduction. As for your second question, it's possible because Bates remained in charge when Leeds had problems. Third answer is no. Fourth answer, it's impossible to know. Fifth answer, it's impossible to know. The Parachute payment was £11.2 million per year for two seasons, it may have gone up this year. The value of the club is basically how much somebody is willing to pay for it. cheers for that trying to gauge what the club is/was worth, ashley paid approx 240 m i read yesterday that the club is worth 125m but you are right in what you say that its only worth what someone will pay and that is a lot less than ashley paid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFunk Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 it isn't stability that brings success, its success that brings stability. I like that quote. Yes, but it's not true. Blackburn is a good example. Success took years of stability for them, but the success wasn't followed by stability. It would be more correct to say progress brings stability. spot on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest westamfan Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Hi guys, i'm a west ham fan. I gotta say Mike Ashley is doing is totally ruining your club. He's an absolute disgrace and you guys deserve much better. He has absolutely no idea how to run a football club and the people he has employed are no better. There's so many areas on the pitch that needs to be addressed and he's totally ignored it for two seasons. I hate to say it but if you guys don't invest wisely and quick it's going to go right to the wire this season. I wasn't in favour of your support for Keegan as I don't think he is up to it anymore...but Joe Kinnear? I can't believe this Ashley bloke. What planet is he on? Why hasn't he seeked any advice from anyone with half an inkling of European football knowledge? It's a shame for English football the way he's ruined your club. If any set of fans in England can force the removal of a chairman, then it's Newcastle. There's so many club on the continent where the fans have succeeded in their protests. p.s Please don't ban me for being an outsider, i'm not out to wind anyone up. I have a soft spot for you guys and I love the city. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 You'd not be banned for being a fan of another club mate, we have a number already. Welcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Hi guys, i'm a west ham fan. I gotta say Mike Ashley is doing is totally ruining your club. He's an absolute disgrace and you guys deserve much better. He has absolutely no idea how to run a football club and the people he has employed are no better. There's so many areas on the pitch that needs to be addressed and he's totally ignored it for two seasons. I hate to say it but if you guys don't invest wisely and quick it's going to go right to the wire this season. I wasn't in favour of your support for Keegan as I don't think he is up to it anymore...but Joe Kinnear? I can't believe this Ashley bloke. What planet is he on? Why hasn't he seeked any advice from anyone with half an inkling of European football knowledge? It's a shame for English football the way he's ruined your club. If any set of fans in England can force the removal of a chairman, then it's Newcastle. There's so many club on the continent where the fans have succeeded in their protests. p.s Please don't ban me for being an outsider, i'm not out to wind anyone up. I have a soft spot for you guys and I love the city. thanks for the outside perspective (i happen to agree with you). welcome to the forum Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Hi guys, i'm a west ham fan. I gotta say Mike Ashley is doing is totally ruining your club. He's an absolute disgrace and you guys deserve much better. He has absolutely no idea how to run a football club and the people he has employed are no better. There's so many areas on the pitch that needs to be addressed and he's totally ignored it for two seasons. I hate to say it but if you guys don't invest wisely and quick it's going to go right to the wire this season. I wasn't in favour of your support for Keegan as I don't think he is up to it anymore...but Joe Kinnear? I can't believe this Ashley bloke. What planet is he on? Why hasn't he seeked any advice from anyone with half an inkling of European football knowledge? It's a shame for English football the way he's ruined your club. If any set of fans in England can force the removal of a chairman, then it's Newcastle. There's so many club on the continent where the fans have succeeded in their protests. p.s Please don't ban me for being an outsider, i'm not out to wind anyone up. I have a soft spot for you guys and I love the city. Hey mate Good to have another non-toon fan on here. Its always interesting to hear the opinions of people not connected to NUFC. Actually our 2 clubs had similar situations in that the manager walked out due to arguments and disagreements with the owners. Granted our fans went way over the top but ultimately the owners were faced with the same decision. I wish we had acted as well and as swiftly as WHU did - they did a good job of letting the fans know the situation in the days straight after the managers walk out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Do West Ham still have in place their DOF/Executive type bloke btw? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 You'd not be banned for being a fan of another club mate, we have a number already. Welcome. its not like your from a shithole like sunderland. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest westamfan Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Do West Ham still have in place their DOF/Executive type bloke btw? We have Gianluca Nani, a guy who apparently takes the credit having discovered Kaka, his club Brescia were going to sign him but it fell through because a fee couldn't be agreed. Apparently the guys has all kinds of knowledge mostly with young players who are up and coming. He's was brought in as that Eggy & Curbishley were guilty of bringing in duds (i guess you know how that feels) like Faubert, Ljungberg, Boa Morte etc....since he's been at the club we've brought in Behrami (surely one of the signings of the season) Ilunga (a brilliant left back, i understand you guys were interested a while back?) and Di Michele (who you may well know! ;-) ) It was a brilliant move by the club. He's been excellent so far. Apparently Bellamy is off to Man City for £14 million which has been agreed and we have a 'exciting' replacement lined up. My main concern for Newcastle is that although Ashley has said he'd like to invest in younger up & coming players and run the club the right way, he hasn't actually changed a thing. I can't believe that a club as big as yours cannot attract a good manager and a good DOF. Kinnear and Wise. What a fucking joke. I'll even help you guys protest! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Kinnear and Wise. What a fucking joke. I'll even help you guys protest! Please wear your WHU shirt. Imagine a WHU fan carrying that Banner ? :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Well to be fair our system has brought in some good 'unknown' players so far too. The key difference (as Robster pointed out) was that when Curbishley walked, your club backed its system and immediately set about finding a replacement. They told the fans what they were up to, and that they felt it would work. You quickly appointed Zola and though he's hardly pulling up trees so far you're all seemingly moving in the same direction. Our lot sat about saying nothing until the fans' anger reached fever pitch and the subsequent fallout led to Ashley trying to sell up. Thus the mess we're in right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 One of the biggest problems is the way Ashley seemingly gave up his plan and system when the fans protested. While I believe it was because his real motivation for buying the club was 'fun', I can't defend him for that. I think what he was trying to do when he came in was absolutely correct, and also much better than the last years of the Freddy regime, if it had been followed through. He made the fatal mistake of trying to match a logical system of running a club with a purely emotional managerial appointment in Keegan. The thing I'm unsure of is what his plans are now, and if he really is completely unable/unwilling to spend any money on the squad. It is definitely getting harder and harder to see the positives of the Ashley era so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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