Falling apart - latest from True Faith

[bealios]

 

The club is in the worst predicament that it has been in for many, many years, and the reason for that is down to the quality of players brought in, and putting that against those who have left, it may be about to get a lot worse.

 

 

Disagree with this slightly.

 

This might be the season I have feared relegation the most since we were promoted in 1993, moreso than last season, and regardless of what happens I don't think that will change until May. So the first team may be in the worst predicament for many a year.

 

BUT ... as a CLUB there are a lot of things in the background which have improved. I think it's generally acknowledged that for the first time perhaps ever we have a decent Academy set up do we? , and a proper youth recruitment policy. We have no bank debt and you know this for sure, if we havent why the recluctance to spend any money or even the money of the sale of milner?, which is a massive positive in the current banking market.

 

Relegation this year would be a disaster, but if the unthinkable does happen, we are better placed to handle it than if it had happened a couple of years ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In response:

 

1. Our Under 18 team are top of the league, unbeaten in 11 games. We look to be scouting worldwide, and actually signing young promising players from around the world to supplement the Academy kids. I can't remember this happening to the same extent 5 years ago, but may be wrong.

 

2. The club has issued many public statements saying the bank debt has been cleared. This doesn't mean there is no debt, its just that its owed to Mike Ashley. What this means is that we're immune to some extent from the "credit crunch" i.e. the ability to obtain finance to run the business at reasonable rates.

 

3. The Milner money was received at the end of the window. Its not a case of just spunking cash on anyone, they have to be the right players, and they need to want to come here. In the past we have had to offer massive fees and massive wages to players to move to Newcastle, and it seems that that way of running a club is gone. Now we're offering sensible wages, which hopefully means that the players we get are a little less mercenary. However if its clear that we lose a player in this window who does want to play for NUFC simply because we're quibbling over a million pounds, given what is at stake I take your point.

 

 

[Guest aoliversaknob]

At least we wil have a top quality academy then!  Shame we may be playing championship football by then! I just have this horrible feeling this year and the fools at the top of our club do not fill me with any confidence.

 

 

[Guest fading star]

At least we wil have a top quality academy then!   Shame we may be playing championship football by then! I just have this horrible feeling this year and the fools at the top of our club do not fill me with any confidence.

 

 

Like Ipswich and Crewe.

 

[Thespence]

In response: 1. Our Under 18 team are top of the league, unbeaten in 11 games. We look to be scouting worldwide, and actually signing young promising players from around the world to supplement the Academy kids. I can't remember this happening to the same extent 5 years ago, but may be wrong.

 

Make no bones about it that U18 team does well mainly because of Nile, the lad is to big for some centre backs in that league. There are few other decent players in the team though but dont be fooled by the league position but it is a dramatic improvement on last season.

[Guest Edd]

At least we wil have a top quality academy then!   Shame we may be playing championship football by then! I just have this horrible feeling this year and the fools at the top of our club do not fill me with any confidence.

 

 

Like Ipswich and Crewe.

 

 

If we'd produced as many good young players as the likes of Ipswich over the years, then we wouldn't be paying multi-million pound fees and wages to the likes of Butt, Smith, Viduka, Duff etc. and we'd have plenty of money to spend on other transfers.

[Thespence]

At least we wil have a top quality academy then!   Shame we may be playing championship football by then! I just have this horrible feeling this year and the fools at the top of our club do not fill me with any confidence.

 

 

Like Ipswich and Crewe.

 

 

If we'd produced as many good young players as the likes of Ipswich over the years, then we wouldn't be paying multi-million pound fees and wages to the likes of Butt, Smith, Viduka, Duff etc. and we'd have plenty of money to spend on other transfers.

 

We have had 3 young players of the year during the PL era at our club all bought in , how many have Ipswich had?

[Guest Edd]

At least we wil have a top quality academy then!   Shame we may be playing championship football by then! I just have this horrible feeling this year and the fools at the top of our club do not fill me with any confidence.

 

 

Like Ipswich and Crewe.

 

 

If we'd produced as many good young players as the likes of Ipswich over the years, then we wouldn't be paying multi-million pound fees and wages to the likes of Butt, Smith, Viduka, Duff etc. and we'd have plenty of money to spend on other transfers.

 

We have had 3 young players of the year during the PL era at our club all bought in , how many have Ipswich had?

 

That proves my point.

[Thespence]

At least we wil have a top quality academy then!   Shame we may be playing championship football by then! I just have this horrible feeling this year and the fools at the top of our club do not fill me with any confidence.

 

 

Like Ipswich and Crewe.

 

 

If we'd produced as many good young players as the likes of Ipswich over the years, then we wouldn't be paying multi-million pound fees and wages to the likes of Butt, Smith, Viduka, Duff etc. and we'd have plenty of money to spend on other transfers.

 

We have had 3 young players of the year during the PL era at our club all bought in , how many have Ipswich had?

 

That proves my point.

 

My point is we have had better youngsters than Ipswich & we have not been relegated or played in Championship for a very long time.

[Guest Edd]

At least we wil have a top quality academy then!   Shame we may be playing championship football by then! I just have this horrible feeling this year and the fools at the top of our club do not fill me with any confidence.

 

 

Like Ipswich and Crewe.

 

 

If we'd produced as many good young players as the likes of Ipswich over the years, then we wouldn't be paying multi-million pound fees and wages to the likes of Butt, Smith, Viduka, Duff etc. and we'd have plenty of money to spend on other transfers.

 

We have had 3 young players of the year during the PL era at our club all bought in , how many have Ipswich had?

 

That proves my point.

 

My point is we have had better youngsters than Ipswich & we have not been relegated or played in Championship for a very long time.

 

Yeah but we didn't produce those youngsters, we bought them.  Surely you can see that if we had produced them in the first place then their transfer fees could have been spent on other players.  It's not that complicated a concept.

[Thespence]

At least we wil have a top quality academy then!   Shame we may be playing championship football by then! I just have this horrible feeling this year and the fools at the top of our club do not fill me with any confidence.

 

 

Like Ipswich and Crewe.

 

 

If we'd produced as many good young players as the likes of Ipswich over the years, then we wouldn't be paying multi-million pound fees and wages to the likes of Butt, Smith, Viduka, Duff etc. and we'd have plenty of money to spend on other transfers.

 

We have had 3 young players of the year during the PL era at our club all bought in , how many have Ipswich had?

 

That proves my point.

 

My point is we have had better youngsters than Ipswich & we have not been relegated or played in Championship for a very long time.

 

Yeah but we didn't produce those youngsters, we bought them.  Surely you can see that if we had produced them in the first place then their transfer fees could have been spent on other players.  It's not that complicated a concept.

 

Spent on other players? Like better young players than the club is producing maybe?

[NE5]

At least we wil have a top quality academy then!   Shame we may be playing championship football by then! I just have this horrible feeling this year and the fools at the top of our club do not fill me with any confidence.

 

 

Like Ipswich and Crewe.

 

 

If we'd produced as many good young players as the likes of Ipswich over the years, then we wouldn't be paying multi-million pound fees and wages to the likes of Butt, Smith, Viduka, Duff etc. and we'd have plenty of money to spend on other transfers.

 

the desperation of some people to grasp at straws and demean as much as possible, a setup which qualified for europe more than any other club bar 4 over the course of over a decade, never ceases to amaze me.

 

Ipswich were a better and more successful club than us, guess when ? For over 20 years prior to 1992. Surprise eh ? And now, people want to match their current smaller club  standards. Well, the way we are going now, we might.

 

 

 

 

[Guest Edd]

At least we wil have a top quality academy then!   Shame we may be playing championship football by then! I just have this horrible feeling this year and the fools at the top of our club do not fill me with any confidence.

 

 

Like Ipswich and Crewe.

 

 

If we'd produced as many good young players as the likes of Ipswich over the years, then we wouldn't be paying multi-million pound fees and wages to the likes of Butt, Smith, Viduka, Duff etc. and we'd have plenty of money to spend on other transfers.

 

the desperation of some people to grasp at straws and demean as much as possible, a setup which qualified for europe more than any other club bar 4 over the course of over a decade, never ceases to amaze me.

 

Ipswich were a better and more successful club than us, guess when ? For over 20 years prior to 1992. Surprise eh ? And now, people want to match their current smaller club  standards. Well, the way we are going now, we might.

 

 

Youth systems at the likes of Crewe, Ipswich, West Ham etc are acknowledged throughout the game for producing good players so I'm hardly saying anything contentious, or what it has to do with our qualification for Europe.  But thanks for your input.

[Thespence]

At least we wil have a top quality academy then!   Shame we may be playing championship football by then! I just have this horrible feeling this year and the fools at the top of our club do not fill me with any confidence.

 

 

Like Ipswich and Crewe.

 

 

If we'd produced as many good young players as the likes of Ipswich over the years, then we wouldn't be paying multi-million pound fees and wages to the likes of Butt, Smith, Viduka, Duff etc. and we'd have plenty of money to spend on other transfers.

 

the desperation of some people to grasp at straws and demean as much as possible, a setup which qualified for europe more than any other club bar 4 over the course of over a decade, never ceases to amaze me.

 

Ipswich were a better and more successful club than us, guess when ? For over 20 years prior to 1992. Surprise eh ? And now, people want to match their current smaller club  standards. Well, the way we are going now, we might.

 

 

Youth systems at the likes of Crewe, Ipswich, West Ham etc are acknowledged throughout the game for producing good players so I'm hardly saying anything contentious, or what it has to do with our qualification for Europe.  But thanks for your input.

 

West Ham is the level I would like to see us produce at. Dario-G picks up left overs in the main & is getting lads a lot older in the main.

[Guest Edd]

At least we wil have a top quality academy then!   Shame we may be playing championship football by then! I just have this horrible feeling this year and the fools at the top of our club do not fill me with any confidence.

 

 

Like Ipswich and Crewe.

 

 

If we'd produced as many good young players as the likes of Ipswich over the years, then we wouldn't be paying multi-million pound fees and wages to the likes of Butt, Smith, Viduka, Duff etc. and we'd have plenty of money to spend on other transfers.

 

the desperation of some people to grasp at straws and demean as much as possible, a setup which qualified for europe more than any other club bar 4 over the course of over a decade, never ceases to amaze me.

 

Ipswich were a better and more successful club than us, guess when ? For over 20 years prior to 1992. Surprise eh ? And now, people want to match their current smaller club  standards. Well, the way we are going now, we might.

 

 

Youth systems at the likes of Crewe, Ipswich, West Ham etc are acknowledged throughout the game for producing good players so I'm hardly saying anything contentious, or what it has to do with our qualification for Europe.  But thanks for your input.

 

West Ham is the level I would like to see us produce at. Dario-G picks up left overs in the main & is getting lads a lot older in the main.

 

Yeah I would imagine it's a lot harder now for the likes of Crewe to pick up the really good young players as the bigger clubs have put more and more emphasis on their own youth set ups.

[Heron]

I know this will get shot down in flames but I wrote a Toon Ultras article for The Mag, not sure if it is getting put forward yet by the lad in contact with Mark but here it is below. Please bare in mind it is written from a Toon Ultra perspective.

 

 

!!WANTED!!

Passion and Fight....

Please see below for details

 

Another month goes by and the end of the season is beckoning. Nothing much has changed in the Premier League as a good dozen teams are still up for relegation and the select few who break away might be able to push for a European spot. It’s somewhere where all Newcastle United fans realistically aspire to be, somewhere where the majority expect us to be, and somewhere where the minority think we will finish.

 

Newcastle United’s problem as we all know is a lack of stability, confidence, and quality. Maybe the lack of these characteristics comes down to the Chairman, Board Room Staff or Owner. Maybe it comes down to the coaching staff and the manager. Maybe it comes down to the players on the pitch, and maybe it comes down to us in the stands. However, rather ironically one thing which unites us is our lack of unity.

 

To put it simply you can use the old phrase of “There is no “I” in TEAM”. Take that “I” and give it more meaning...Individuals. For individuals are what are running or dare I say it ruining the club from top to bottom. There are individuals at the top of this club who are seemingly unwilling to spend, and improve the strength in depth of the squad. Individuals at this club who don’t work cohesively with the Manager and coaching staff. Individuals who could improve personally through decision making. Individuals who can show a bit more heart and passion on the pitch, who can work together and fight for what they should all want – to win! Finally there are too many individuals in the stands, too many of us who are too fixated on the politics to pay attention to the real ‘business’ end.

 

Hypocritical I know – “Why talk about so much politics only then to criticise those who do?” you may ask. The reason for this is that we all know what is going on, we all know the situation has become very problematic, and we are all passionate about everything that the club does. It’s extremely hard to get away from it, living in a one club city, with such a massive focus on the club. On the other hand, this passion is what we rely on, and we all need to unite and become one, as a club.

 

Where does this passion come from? I ask you, the reader. Is this love for your club solely for your love of Newcastle? Do you support them because you support everything the city pursues? If so, do you go and watch the Hockey or the Rugby on a regular basis? I bet there is a minority of you who do. So my next question is; is it your love of football that makes you so passionate? I believe YES. This is exactly why we MUST concentrate on the football now and nothing else. If you want to remain passionate about the politics, why not go to America where politics is making history.

 

The second “I” I now want to turn your attention to is that of Intent. Intent is what we all need to display, as a club. This intent is what will unite us as a club, it’s what will save us from the battle that now faces us. Would a British soldier in Iraq turn to a fellow soldier who he dislikes and say “I don’t want to fight with you”?  No. So let’s not do it in this battle. What do we Intend to do? We Intend to stay up. No-one at the club wants us to go down, what good would it be for any of us?

 

We need to display this intent, find the passion, channel it, and show that fight, as a team and not individuals, that will keep us up and move us away from danger.

 

As inactive as the Toon Ultras may have appeared to be in recent months, we have still tried our hardest to back the lads up in Level 7. We are not alone, as the whole singing section appears to be doing so, as are other sections of the ground. Now what we need is to try and maintain a positive vibe, show encouragement, shoe belief and show faith.

 

As a group we follow our motto of Bringing Back The Noise, and now we urge you all to continue to do so, now more than ever! We will be striving to do our bit to improve the atmosphere and attitude, so all we ask is that everyone else continues to do so too. Let’s show the rest of the club what Unity is, and be UNITED in the stands.

 

Bring your flags, bring your scarves, bring your banners, bring anything black and white, and let’s show that passion and fight that has been emphasised by the quotes of our most famous knight.

 

SING YOUR HEARTS OUT FOR THE LADS!

[NE5]

At least we wil have a top quality academy then!   Shame we may be playing championship football by then! I just have this horrible feeling this year and the fools at the top of our club do not fill me with any confidence.

 

 

Like Ipswich and Crewe.

 

 

If we'd produced as many good young players as the likes of Ipswich over the years, then we wouldn't be paying multi-million pound fees and wages to the likes of Butt, Smith, Viduka, Duff etc. and we'd have plenty of money to spend on other transfers.

 

the desperation of some people to grasp at straws and demean as much as possible, a setup which qualified for europe more than any other club bar 4 over the course of over a decade, never ceases to amaze me.

 

Ipswich were a better and more successful club than us, guess when ? For over 20 years prior to 1992. Surprise eh ? And now, people want to match their current smaller club  standards. Well, the way we are going now, we might.

 

 

Youth systems at the likes of Crewe, Ipswich, West Ham etc are acknowledged throughout the game for producing good players so I'm hardly saying anything contentious, or what it has to do with our qualification for Europe.  But thanks for your input.

 

Your cherry picking of Smith, Duff, Butt and Viduka is what I'm talking about. Do I/you want to be run like Ipswich, or would I/you rather sign players like Bellamy, Shearer, Solano, Given, Woodgate, Robert, Dyer, Woodgate, Ferguson, Speed, Hamman, Owen, Parker for starters. And as has been said by spence, who from the likes of Ipswich has been significantly better than Taylor, Hughes, Harper, Chopra, Caldwell and Ameobi ? Nowt like a good cliche is there ?

 

West Ham have produced some good youngsters, but sold them in true 2nd rate style, under Ashley we may have eyes on this particular direction and spunk the money from the sales on anybody we do find on 2 inferior replacements to shore off relegation, but if thats what you want I hope you think you will be happy, but I'm telling you - just like the last 18 months - when it hits you, you won't be.

 

I wonder how many people would have wanted us to be like Burnley if they had got through tonight, words fail me, they really do.

 

Speaking of Burnley, back in the 1970's they had arguably the best youth system in the country. Where did it get them ? Answers on a postage stamp.

 

 

[Dave]

Nowt like a good cliche is there ?

 

That's sig-worthy stuff right there.

[NE5]

Nowt like a good cliche is there ?

 

That's sig-worthy stuff right there.

 

just missing a swear word or two 

[Taylor Swift]

At least we wil have a top quality academy then!   Shame we may be playing championship football by then! I just have this horrible feeling this year and the fools at the top of our club do not fill me with any confidence.

 

 

Like Ipswich and Crewe.

 

 

If we'd produced as many good young players as the likes of Ipswich over the years, then we wouldn't be paying multi-million pound fees and wages to the likes of Butt, Smith, Viduka, Duff etc. and we'd have plenty of money to spend on other transfers.

 

the desperation of some people to grasp at straws and demean as much as possible, a setup which qualified for europe more than any other club bar 4 over the course of over a decade, never ceases to amaze me.

 

Ipswich were a better and more successful club than us, guess when ? For over 20 years prior to 1992. Surprise eh ? And now, people want to match their current smaller club  standards. Well, the way we are going now, we might.

 

 

Youth systems at the likes of Crewe, Ipswich, West Ham etc are acknowledged throughout the game for producing good players so I'm hardly saying anything contentious, or what it has to do with our qualification for Europe.  But thanks for your input.

 

Your cherry picking of Smith, Duff, Butt and Viduka is what I'm talking about. Do I/you want to be run like Ipswich, or would I/you rather sign players like Bellamy, Shearer, Solano, Given, Woodgate, Robert, Dyer, Woodgate, Ferguson, Speed, Hamman, Owen, Parker for starters. And as has been said by spence, who from the likes of Ipswich has been significantly better than Taylor, Hughes, Harper, Chopra, Caldwell and Ameobi ? Nowt like a good cliche is there ?

 

West Ham have produced some good youngsters, but sold them in true 2nd rate style, under Ashley we may have eyes on this particular direction and spunk the money from the sales on anybody we do find on 2 inferior replacements to shore off relegation, but if thats what you want I hope you think you will be happy, but I'm telling you - just like the last 18 months - when it hits you, you won't be.

 

I wonder how many people would have wanted us to be like Burnley if they had got through tonight, words fail me, they really do.

 

Speaking of Burnley, back in the 1970's they had arguably the best youth system in the country. Where did it get them ? Answers on a postage stamp.

 

 

 

Our spending wasn't sustainable, mate. The way we operated, which although got us to pretty lofty heights for a few years, wasn't sustainable. We want the club to challenge, but the way we did with KK and maybe SBR was just for a fleeting moment.

[merlin]

 

The club is in the worst predicament that it has been in for many, many years, and the reason for that is down to the quality of players brought in, and putting that against those who have left, it may be about to get a lot worse.

 

 

Disagree with this slightly.

 

This might be the season I have feared relegation the most since we were promoted in 1993, moreso than last season, and regardless of what happens I don't think that will change until May. So the first team may be in the worst predicament for many a year.

 

BUT ... as a CLUB there are a lot of things in the background which have improved. I think it's generally acknowledged that for the first time perhaps ever we have a decent Academy set up do we? , and a proper youth recruitment policy. We have no bank debt and you know this for sure, if we havent why the recluctance to spend any money or even the money of the sale of milner?, which is a massive positive in the current banking market.

 

Relegation this year would be a disaster, but if the unthinkable does happen, we are better placed to handle it than if it had happened a couple of years ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In response:

 

1. Our Under 18 team are top of the league, unbeaten in 11 games. We look to be scouting worldwide, and actually signing young promising players from around the world to supplement the Academy kids. I can't remember this happening to the same extent 5 years ago, but may be wrong.

 

2. The club has issued many public statements saying the bank debt has been cleared. This doesn't mean there is no debt, its just that its owed to Mike Ashley. What this means is that we're immune to some extent from the "credit crunch" i.e. the ability to obtain finance to run the business at reasonable rates.

 

3. The Milner money was received at the end of the window. Its not a case of just spunking cash on anyone, they have to be the right players, and they need to want to come here. In the past we have had to offer massive fees and massive wages to players to move to Newcastle, and it seems that that way of running a club is gone. Now we're offering sensible wages, which hopefully means that the players we get are a little less mercenary. However if its clear that we lose a player in this window who does want to play for NUFC simply because we're quibbling over a million pounds, given what is at stake I take your point.

 

 

 

Point 1. - A temporarily successful Youth team is no guide to future progress. In 1985,our Youth team won the Youth FA Cup ; in the side were people like Gazza....oh, and there was Gazza...and, don't forget Gazza....!  NONE of the others went on to be successful in the top 2 divisions.

 

Point 2. If the debt IS still owed to Ashley, it will at some stage have to be repaid - only a takeover can do this because the club will NEVER be able to for the foreseeable future

 

Point 3.A successfully-run club nearly always BUYS the players it needs before selling its best assets - NUFC has nearly always done the reverse..

[johnnypd]

You miss my point -

If you were a half decent player looking for a move this transfer window would you look at JK as a manager who will develop your skills / be a manager who would inspire and improve you as a player, bring you success?

 

Or do you think D Wise has the personality, negotiating skills and ability to persuade players to join the new nufc regime with its exciting upward trajectory for Newcastle United.

 

Thats why we are in a crisis - fooking hell man we couldnt even get anybody decent wanting to manage us a couple of months ago, why on earth do you think players of the right physicality, mental strength and skill level would want to come play for us?

 

I agree no-one int he right mind shoudl want to come to us, but I think Kinnear and Wise are just doing the jobs to the best of their ability, the problem lies both at the very top and the very bottom of the club, not in the middle.

 

As with any organisation the responsibility is always at the very top to ensure the correct level of person is employed to carry out the management responsiblites, and to that way of thinking you are absolutlry correct. However it seems to me that Ashleys is looking to D Wise for all the footballing descions and it is he who does not have the skills or credibilty to forfill his role as DOF. Hence the main reason why we have the inept JK and the inept DW at the club is Ashley.  

 

Muppets at every managerial level hence the crisis we are in.

 

Dennis Wise's recruits - Bassong, Guthrie, Coloccini and Jonas - seem to be doing pretty well. The weak links are those who have been recruited by previous managers for double the price. Wise's only crime seems to be that he fell out with Keegan.

 

We have Kinnear as manager because Keegan walked out, Ashley decided that he had to sell up in order to pacify the fans, and Kinnear was the only one who would take the job on such a temporary basis. The situation is far more complex than you're making out.

 

There are several teams in the danger zone, and while I imagine they're all worried, I just wonder whether there's quite the same level of hysteria among their respective fans. The True Faith article is just self-indulgent negativity, lashing out at various targets, with no constructive ideas. You'd have thought we were bottom of the league with 9 points the way it goes on.

 

those recruits are also the ones Keegan either had a say in signing or was happy about. and they've not been wholesale successes either. the two it seemed he didnt want have so far failed. the previous manager didnt spend a huge amount either, actually spent similar. Roeder did spend more but only Duff is underperforming (actually is just shit) and his other signing is our best and most important player. there's other poor players from a while ago but they shouldve been replaced by now, its farcical that Butt is apparently the lynchpin of our midfield.

 

We have Kinnear in charge because Ashley would not commit to a longer contract for Venables and because other managers would not touch us due to interference and instability from board level. We also have Kinnear in charge because Ashley responded in kind to over-reaction by placing the club on the market. Had he not done so he wouldve been able to go out and get a continental manager who was more used to his weird system than a brit, for instance Fatih Terim who threw his hat into the ring. talking of over-reactions his beats them all.

 

All teams in the danger zone should be worried, but you'd have to say some of them seem to have more balanced sides that are in tune with their manager (and also better managers in some cases). we have better players in some cases, though some of ours are just as bad, and they dont add up to a cohesive side. we also suffer from injuries more than other sides. id expect that brom and stoke are more well placed to cope with a relegation too, in mindset if nothing else.

[Guest Edd]

And as has been said by spence, who from the likes of Ipswich has been significantly better than Taylor, Hughes, Harper, Chopra, Caldwell and Ameobi ? Nowt like a good cliche is there ?

 

I wasn't the one that originally brought up Ipswich, but a few that spring to mind are:

 

- I'm surprised you forgot Dyer (probably better than every player you mentioned combined)

- A £17m striker in Bent (he's not worth that, but apparently that's what big clubs do),

- One Titus Bramble (ah how I miss those signings that said "ambition")

- An international keeper in Richard Wright who won a Premier League winners medial IIRC. (Ok slightly different from us qualifying for Europe, but I'm sure he'll get over it)

 

 

Your cherry picking of Smith, Duff, Butt and Viduka is what I'm talking about. Do I/you want to be run like Ipswich, or would I/you rather sign players like Bellamy, Shearer, Solano, Given, Woodgate, Robert, Dyer, Woodgate, Ferguson, Speed, Hamman, Owen, Parker for starters.

Good to see you didn't cherry pick too

 

I never once mentioned being run like Ipswich.  I merely suggested that we, or any team for that matter, will benefit from a good youth set up.  What you do with them after that is a different argument.

 

 

West Ham have produced some good youngsters, but sold them in true 2nd rate style, under Ashley we may have eyes on this particular direction and spunk the money from the sales on anybody we do find on 2 inferior replacements to shore off relegation, but if thats what you want I hope you think you will be happy, but I'm telling you - just like the last 18 months - when it hits you, you won't be.

 

Your reasoning that because West Ham sell some of their youngsters, Ashley will get us relegated is, some might say, slightly warped. 

 

Surely even you can see your logic that because some teams with good youth set ups have struggled, therefore it must be a bad thing, is flawed.  They also all had tea ladies as well.

 

I can't even believe you're arguing about it.  On second thoughts....

[johnnypd]

And as has been said by spence, who from the likes of Ipswich has been significantly better than Taylor, Hughes, Harper, Chopra, Caldwell and Ameobi ? Nowt like a good cliche is there ?

 

I wasn't the one that originally brought up Ipswich, but a few that spring to mind are:

 

- I'm surprised you forgot Dyer (probably better than every player you mentioned combined)

- A £17m striker in Bent (he's not worth that, but apparently that's what big clubs do),

- One Titus Bramble (ah how I miss those signings that said "ambition")

- An international keeper in Richard Wright who won a Premier League winners medial IIRC. (Ok slightly different from us qualifying for Europe, but I'm sure he'll get over it)

 

 

 

don't forget darren ambrose!

[Cronky]

You miss my point -

If you were a half decent player looking for a move this transfer window would you look at JK as a manager who will develop your skills / be a manager who would inspire and improve you as a player, bring you success?

 

Or do you think D Wise has the personality, negotiating skills and ability to persuade players to join the new nufc regime with its exciting upward trajectory for Newcastle United.

 

Thats why we are in a crisis - fooking hell man we couldnt even get anybody decent wanting to manage us a couple of months ago, why on earth do you think players of the right physicality, mental strength and skill level would want to come play for us?

 

I agree no-one int he right mind shoudl want to come to us, but I think Kinnear and Wise are just doing the jobs to the best of their ability, the problem lies both at the very top and the very bottom of the club, not in the middle.

 

As with any organisation the responsibility is always at the very top to ensure the correct level of person is employed to carry out the management responsiblites, and to that way of thinking you are absolutlry correct. However it seems to me that Ashleys is looking to D Wise for all the footballing descions and it is he who does not have the skills or credibilty to forfill his role as DOF. Hence the main reason why we have the inept JK and the inept DW at the club is Ashley.  

 

Muppets at every managerial level hence the crisis we are in.

 

Dennis Wise's recruits - Bassong, Guthrie, Coloccini and Jonas - seem to be doing pretty well. The weak links are those who have been recruited by previous managers for double the price. Wise's only crime seems to be that he fell out with Keegan.

 

We have Kinnear as manager because Keegan walked out, Ashley decided that he had to sell up in order to pacify the fans, and Kinnear was the only one who would take the job on such a temporary basis. The situation is far more complex than you're making out.

 

There are several teams in the danger zone, and while I imagine they're all worried, I just wonder whether there's quite the same level of hysteria among their respective fans. The True Faith article is just self-indulgent negativity, lashing out at various targets, with no constructive ideas. You'd have thought we were bottom of the league with 9 points the way it goes on.

 

those recruits are also the ones Keegan either had a say in signing or was happy about. and they've not been wholesale successes either. the two it seemed he didnt want have so far failed. the previous manager didnt spend a huge amount either, actually spent similar. Roeder did spend more but only Duff is underperforming (actually is just shit) and his other signing is our best and most important player. there's other poor players from a while ago but they shouldve been replaced by now, its farcical that Butt is apparently the lynchpin of our midfield.

 

We have Kinnear in charge because Ashley would not commit to a longer contract for Venables and because other managers would not touch us due to interference and instability from board level. We also have Kinnear in charge because Ashley responded in kind to over-reaction by placing the club on the market. Had he not done so he wouldve been able to go out and get a continental manager who was more used to his weird system than a brit, for instance Fatih Terim who threw his hat into the ring. talking of over-reactions his beats them all.

All teams in the danger zone should be worried, but you'd have to say some of them seem to have more balanced sides that are in tune with their manager (and also better managers in some cases). we have better players in some cases, though some of ours are just as bad, and they dont add up to a cohesive side. we also suffer from injuries more than other sides. id expect that brom and stoke are more well placed to cope with a relegation too, in mindset if nothing else.

 

I think this episode and the aftermath is what's distinguishing us from the other clubs at the bottom. Wise's recruitment has generally been good, and Kinnear hasn't really done any worse than Keegan, Allardyce, Roeder and Souness. We haven't spent big money in the January window for some time, and apart from one or two clubs, everyone is struggling for transfer funds at the moment.

 

The situation following Keegan's walk-out was really ugly, and Ashley may have felt that the disunity would only get worse if he stayed on. His public declaration to sell was designed to put a halt to a potentially very damaging battle. I don't recall many people urging him to stick it out at the time, and there's no telling what situation would be in now if he'd done that - it could be better, it could be worse. I wanted him to stay on, but not at the price of further turmoil.

 

I suppose a lot depends on how you lay the blame for that whole situation arising - Keegan, the fans, or Ashley / Wise. Personally, I don't think Ashley should have appointed Keegan, and Keegan shouldn't have accepted the job and then attempted to re-write the job description. It's hard to blame such an amorphous group as 'the fans', but there was a definite over-reaction there, based on Keegan's past Messiah-like status rather than a cool-headed analysis of what was going on.

 

 

[NE5]

And as has been said by spence, who from the likes of Ipswich has been significantly better than Taylor, Hughes, Harper, Chopra, Caldwell and Ameobi ? Nowt like a good cliche is there ?

 

I wasn't the one that originally brought up Ipswich, but a few that spring to mind are:

 

- I'm surprised you forgot Dyer (probably better than every player you mentioned combined)

- A £17m striker in Bent (he's not worth that, but apparently that's what big clubs do),

- One Titus Bramble (ah how I miss those signings that said "ambition")

- An international keeper in Richard Wright who won a Premier League winners medial IIRC. (Ok slightly different from us qualifying for Europe, but I'm sure he'll get over it)

 

 

Your cherry picking of Smith, Duff, Butt and Viduka is what I'm talking about. Do I/you want to be run like Ipswich, or would I/you rather sign players like Bellamy, Shearer, Solano, Given, Woodgate, Robert, Dyer, Woodgate, Ferguson, Speed, Hamman, Owen, Parker for starters.

Good to see you didn't cherry pick too

 

I never once mentioned being run like Ipswich.  I merely suggested that we, or any team for that matter, will benefit from a good youth set up.  What you do with them after that is a different argument.

 

 

West Ham have produced some good youngsters, but sold them in true 2nd rate style, under Ashley we may have eyes on this particular direction and spunk the money from the sales on anybody we do find on 2 inferior replacements to shore off relegation, but if thats what you want I hope you think you will be happy, but I'm telling you - just like the last 18 months - when it hits you, you won't be.

 

Your reasoning that because West Ham sell some of their youngsters, Ashley will get us relegated is, some might say, slightly warped. 

 

Surely even you can see your logic that because some teams with good youth set ups have struggled, therefore it must be a bad thing, is flawed.  They also all had tea ladies as well.

 

I can't even believe you're arguing about it.  On second thoughts....

 

I did mention Dyer.

 

I also deliberately missed out Bramble and Ambrose, because they were their "best" youngsters, who in the end arguably didn't prove good enough for us ala Ameobi, Chopra, Hughes etc.

 

So. The only one is Bent, maybe. For Dyer, who we bought, being the bigger club, or rather we were at the time. Richard Wright v Steve Harper ?

 

At least you don't dispute the fact that you are cherry picking, using those 4 names.

 

The bigger question being that it has been pointed out to you that these clubs who put the accent on finding the young players - as mentioned - have all sold them because they haven't "spunked money on bigger ready made players" to go with it, which is what the big clubs do, or do if they are actually big clubs.

 

The ones that don't, lose their youngsters, as mentioned, just like Ipswich who have lost some to Newcastle, when they acted like a bigger club, but didn't when they didn't act like it as in the days when Bobby Robson was manager of Ipswich Town and showed very little interest in managing the much bigger club, his hometown club, Newcastle United.

 

I just know you won't understand this, the same as the shitloads of people who also didn't understand it when it was pointed out that good owners choose to back managers, rather than choose to not back them . The difference now is beoming more clear to people, but not yet all it would seem. For people who cast envious glances at the likes of Ipswich town, its your prerogative, at least playing years in the 2nd division means they don't do embarrassing things, partly because it means they are out of sight and out of mind. Just like we used to be, and just like where we will end up again if the current regime stays as it is.