Incognito Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 The fact remains...without some investment now,this club has a distinct chance of being relegated,then we could be on the way to Leedsville.Speculate to accumulate Mr. Ashley or your business plan will go "tits up". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 We spent £5,000 pounds this summer and still improved the first team, why cant we carry on doing the same? Thats all any fan should ask as a minimum. I don't want to derail this thread but if you're suggesting the squad we have now is good enough, both in terms of numbers and quality, I completely disagree. Our league position reflects that. We spent naff all and it shows. That being a necessity doesn't make it any less a fact. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Bottom line: HAVE WE GOT ENOUGH IN THE BISCUIT TIN TO SIGN PLAYERS WHO CAN PLAY FIRST TEAM FOOTBALL IN THE PL? There is nothing in the tin; we're losing money. I think. In the September transfer window the club spent £13,615,000 on new players and sold players for £13,610,000. This represents a net spend of £5,000. This is what we'll do in this window too by the looks of things. The real question is: at what point will we be ABLE to spend more than nothing? When they've got the yearly loss below £20m. The accounts were at a period when Ashley was prepared to underwrite a £20m loss though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Bottom line: HAVE WE GOT ENOUGH IN THE BISCUIT TIN TO SIGN PLAYERS WHO CAN PLAY FIRST TEAM FOOTBALL IN THE PL? There is nothing in the tin; we're losing money. I think. In the September transfer window the club spent £13,615,000 on new players and sold players for £13,610,000. This represents a net spend of £5,000. This is what we'll do in this window too by the looks of things. The real question is: at what point will we be ABLE to spend more than nothing? We spent £5,000 pounds this summer and still improved the first team, why cant we carry on doing the same? Thats all any fan should ask as a minimum. I would go for improve league placing because if other teams improve there squad better than your improvement you will slide down the league & your squad improvement would not be that noticeable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 [NE5bait] So essentially, our current inability to spend anything is down to us still paying for the sins of the Shepherd era? [/NE5bait] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 [NE5bait] So essentially, our current inability to spend anything is down to us still paying for the sins of the Shepherd era? [/NE5bait] 50-pager this one. Conservative estimate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 We spent £5,000 pounds this summer and still improved the first team, why cant we carry on doing the same? Thats all any fan should ask as a minimum. I don't want to derail this thread but if you're suggesting the squad we have now is good enough, both in terms of numbers and quality, I completely disagree. Our league position reflects that. We spent naff all and it shows. That being a necessity doesn't make it any less a fact. Squads fine. Problem is bad decisions at the highest level have left us with Kinnear and not KK, which having seen the finances, must be considered the main beef with Ashley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Bottom line: HAVE WE GOT ENOUGH IN THE BISCUIT TIN TO SIGN PLAYERS WHO CAN PLAY FIRST TEAM FOOTBALL IN THE PL? Only if Mike Ashley takes out a £100m loan and spends it on players, decreasing the clubs valuation after amortisation. Why has MA got to take out £100 millon loan, to say sign Pennant on loan & then of free in the summer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 [NE5bait] So essentially, our current inability to spend anything is down to us still paying for the sins of the Shepherd era? [/NE5bait] Not purely down to that, no. Ashley has still overseen the hugely expensive sacking of a manager and the adding to the wage bill of some very costly players with little or no resale value. Not to mention the slide down the league table. But yeah, Shepherd appears to have left us in a very precarious financial position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Bottom line: HAVE WE GOT ENOUGH IN THE BISCUIT TIN TO SIGN PLAYERS WHO CAN PLAY FIRST TEAM FOOTBALL IN THE PL? Only if Mike Ashley takes out a £100m loan and spends it on players, decreasing the clubs valuation after amortisation. Why has MA got to take out £100 millon loan, to say sign Pennant on loan & then of free in the summer? Haven't noticed Kinnear or the scouting team take an interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I think the point is though that that cost was the same before Ashley arrived and would be the same if he'd sold up. So if that's the same regardless of the owner, is it not fair to look beyond it? I'm just wondering why it matters at all (to the Ashley debate) if it was always going to be that cost. Because, in debate terms, those who want to say it doesn't matter will then spin that it into the following bollocks: "The club wasn't already f***ed financially before Ashley bought it." and/or "The club isn't making much of a loss and we can ignore this big aspect of playing staff expenditure on the accounts so there's no excuse for not spunking loadsamoney on players." If the club was financially fucked why did Ashley buy it? If the club wasn't financially fucked why did they want to sell it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 We spent £5,000 pounds this summer and still improved the first team, why cant we carry on doing the same? Thats all any fan should ask as a minimum. I don't want to derail this thread but if you're suggesting the squad we have now is good enough, both in terms of numbers and quality, I completely disagree. Our league position reflects that. We spent naff all and it shows. That being a necessity doesn't make it any less a fact. Squads fine. Problem is bad decisions at the highest level have left us with Kinnear and not KK, which having seen the finances, must be considered the main beef with Ashley. One left back. One right back. Butt and Ameobi starting players both now and in the future. Fine my fucking arse. We're digressing though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest michaelfoster Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Why has MA got to take out £100 millon loan, to say sign Pennant on loan & then of free in the summer? Cause he doesn't want another ex con Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Bottom line: HAVE WE GOT ENOUGH IN THE BISCUIT TIN TO SIGN PLAYERS WHO CAN PLAY FIRST TEAM FOOTBALL IN THE PL? Only if Mike Ashley takes out a £100m loan and spends it on players, decreasing the clubs valuation after amortisation. Why has MA got to take out £100 millon loan, to say sign Pennant on loan & then of free in the summer? Haven't noticed Kinnear or the scouting team take an interest. We have been too busy checking out the boys of Norway U18 league. We have nee right back or right midfielder, I know he is nowt special (against us he is) but I would be after the soon to be out of contract Ryan Taylor because he is better than Duff on the right & anyone but Beye at the at RB. Why did you mention a £100 million there are stacks of soon to be out of contract in the summer players who I reckon clubs would sell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fading star Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 How do the wages paid to Mort, Wise, Jimenez, and Vetres fit into this? And what about Ashley, did he get some kind of dividend? have you read the figures?? how can ashley take a dividend when he is financing the running of the club at the moment??? company directors take dividends out of loss making companies all the time. Haven’t you seen the news recently? yes public company where they don't use there own money at all to buy the club etc the figures show ashley is keeping the club alive with his own cash, so why would he take money out then He hasn’t put any money in, he’s lent the club £100m. His own money. 70 for the debt, and 30 to keep the club going (plus another £10 million on top in June according to the OP). Ashley bought the club without checking the books and got well and truly shafted. If he hadn’t paid off the outstanding creditors he could have seen his £135m investment go down the pan. Yet your lauding him to the high heavens for saving his own skin and asking us to pay for it. Last years accounts count for s*** anyway. It’s next years accounts that will show if you’re blind faith in Ashley is warranted or sorely misguided. My money would be on the latter as losing lots of customers very rapidly tends to do bad things to the balance sheet. Get a grip, I don't see anyone here with blind faith in him or lauding him to the high heavens for f***s sake. He deserves criticism, His nieve managerial choices, and his poor communication have been massively dissapointing. If he f***ed off and sold to someone willing to pump absurd amounts of money into the club with no long term damage i'd be delighted. However, it is also reasonable surely (rather than to just dismiss the accounts as you suggest) to take on board that the club was in a f***ing dreadful situation and Ashley actions and continuing actions have at least stopped the rot to some degree. His decisions to put more emphasis on scouting and youth and not being held to ransom over inflated contract demands are sensible considering the climate. People were demanding to know where his £20 million a year investment was in simple term of incoming transfers, well now we know that the extra money was being put in but only just covers running costs. Ashley recognised this and was actively courting local businessmen to join him. If he had managed to secure that further local investment, we might have been in a much stronger position to get in the players Keegan wanted. Sadly that didn't work out. I'm scared shitless over where we are heading under his stewardship this season, but I recognise the problems we have and I don't see any benefit in sticking the boot in at every opportunity as some seem to be doing. Stopped the rot! We’re staring relegation in the face and looking at sub 40,000 crowds next season. Keegan is taking the club to court for constructive dismissal. RFC Mallorca are taking the club to court for ‘breach of contract’. Lose both and the club is looking at forking out £20m. Our manager is facing a lengthy touchline ban, and most our best players want to leave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edd Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I wonder how well the situation was explained to Keegan before he walked? I look forward to seeing his compensation payment on next years accounts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consortium of one Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Yes, Ashley screwed up because he didn't do the due diligence to find out that the sale of the club triggered specific clauses in the loans. However, he did the club good by loaning money to the club with interest but foregoing collecting on the interest to benefit the club. He has also put his own money back into the club. I really think his heart is in the right place when it comes to the club. It may just be that he has placed his trust in the wrong people. people like Mike Ashley (rightly so) hire lawyers to read loan agreements, some one failed him in that regard. He also made a mistake with some of his management, specifically Lliambas and Wise, IMO. So while it appears that Ashley has made some blunders, it's not because he didn't have the best interests of the club in mind. If he didn't care he wouldn't have made these monetary concessions. He didn't just buy the club and try to run it as a business. It sounds to me like he had a decent plan to move forward and ran into the perfect storm ie: managemnet issues coupled with the current financial crisis. Ashley fucked up because he trusted the wrong people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I think the point is though that that cost was the same before Ashley arrived and would be the same if he'd sold up. So if that's the same regardless of the owner, is it not fair to look beyond it? I'm just wondering why it matters at all (to the Ashley debate) if it was always going to be that cost. Because, in debate terms, those who want to say it doesn't matter will then spin that it into the following bollocks: "The club wasn't already f***ed financially before Ashley bought it." and/or "The club isn't making much of a loss and we can ignore this big aspect of playing staff expenditure on the accounts so there's no excuse for not spunking loadsamoney on players." If the club was financially f***ed why did Ashley buy it? If the club wasn't financially f***ed why did they want to sell it? Shepherd was not the keen to sell, Hall wanted out for years as he got bored because people in Newcastle were not all over his Sporting Club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 What really does worry me btw is next season (that's IF we stay up this). We have Owen, Viduka, Harper, Butt, Cacapa, Edgar and a shitload of youngsters leaving for nothing as things stand. No money to replace them without selling others. Given that the only real way to make decent money is to reach the upper echelons of the Premier League, does this mean we are now destined to just sit and try keep our head above water by bringing in youngsters and selling them when they show promise to pay for the next batch? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I wonder how well the situation was explained to Keegan before he walked? I look forward to seeing his compensation payment on next years accounts. I wonder how well the situation was explained to Keegan before he was offered the job. And if he's entitled to compensation then he should get it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I wonder how well the situation was explained to Keegan before he walked? I look forward to seeing his compensation payment on next years accounts. I wonder how well the situation was explained to Keegan before he was offered the job. And if he's entitled to compensation then he should get it. Every day just seems to bring worse news Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 No wonder Allardyce is such a smug cunt btw. £4,700,000.00 for being shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 What really does worry me btw is next season (that's IF we stay up this). We have Owen, Viduka, Harper, Butt, Cacapa, Edgar and a shitload of youngsters leaving for nothing as things stand. No money to replace them without selling others. All we need is £5K & were sorted. Your worry too much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Bottom line: HAVE WE GOT ENOUGH IN THE BISCUIT TIN TO SIGN PLAYERS WHO CAN PLAY FIRST TEAM FOOTBALL IN THE PL? There is nothing in the tin; we're losing money. I think. In the September transfer window the club spent £13,615,000 on new players and sold players for £13,610,000. This represents a net spend of £5,000. This is what we'll do in this window too by the looks of things. The real question is: at what point will we be ABLE to spend more than nothing? When they've got the yearly loss below £20m. The accounts were at a period when Ashley was prepared to underwrite a £20m loss though! True, although that's not necessarily not the case now though, despite some people's efforts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 What really does worry me btw is next season (that's IF we stay up this). We have Owen, Viduka, Harper, Butt, Cacapa, Edgar and a shitload of youngsters leaving for nothing as things stand. No money to replace them without selling others. Given that the only real way to make decent money is to reach the upper echelons of the Premier League, does this mean we are now destined to just sit and try keep our head above water by bringing in youngsters and selling them when they show promise to pay for the next batch? Once Owen, Viduka and their like are off the wagebill the club will start generating a profit allowing us to consolidate slowly. Theoretically, after a few years of that we can just pick a moment to take a bit of financial risk to pull us up the table. (The "Villa model" so to speak) Until we get all the wasters off the wagebill though, it does indeed look like we're just going to have to struggle to keep our head above the water and stay in the Premiership. One thing's for sure: the age of "ambitious/insane" Shepherd-level spending is over. Forever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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