Colos Short and Curlies Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Do any of the accountants have any comments on macbeth's latest update? http://www.football-finances.org.uk/newcastle/2008/assetsdebts3.htm All these debts needed to be paid off when Ashley bought the club. The graph below looks different from the one from the 2007 results (shown lower down). The difference comes from that change in the view of what Ashley did when he bought the club. What seems to have not been clear was that when he bought the club he would immediately have to pay off the mortgage on the stadium, as it wasn't listed in the previous accounts as being anything more than a long term loan. This meant that in 2007 it looked as the the debt was £71m. When they realised that they had to pay off the mortgage they needed to add that extra amount in. It was also necessary to put money in to cover the £34m loss for that year. The further leap in debt in 2008 comes from the financial loss for the year having to be paid for from somewhere, and this has been from Ashley pumping more money in as a loan. Of the £149m debt roughly£100m is owed to Mike Ashley. He has said that this is a loan that isn't expected to have to be paid back before July 2009 at the earliest, unless the club is bought from him. The last bit is all news to me. Who is the other £49m owed to and how has Ashley managed to double the debt in a year and a half? Comforting to know that we're not expected to pay off the £100m before July like. The £49 million is owed to normal club creditors and is not fixed debt as such. £70 million debt was due to Ashley at 30th June 2007 after he paid off the clubs fixed debt and put some extra working capital in. The club then had another bad year incurring heavy losses, so he had to stick in a further £30 million to keep it going and resulting a total debt due to him of £100 million at 30th June 2008. So in your opinion is macbeth's intimation correct that the net debt in the 2007 accounts is wrong and should be £124m rather than £71m, and that the net debt grew from £61m in june 2006 to £149m in june 2008? Well I certainly don't think the accounts were wrong. Also I would disagree with him if he is classifying normal trade creditors as debt. They are not classified as fixed debt simply because they fluctuate and are not generally subject to a loan agreement. The piece you quote "This meant that in 2007 it looked as the the debt was £71m. When they realised that they had to pay off the mortgage they needed to add that extra amount in." seems to be saying that there was some hidden debt that wasn't disclosed. And that is not the case. The amount of the debt was disclosed but what was not disclosed is that it was repayable immediately if the club changed ownership. But there again I could easily be misinterpreting what he is saying tbh. You copying my posts? Made the exact same point earlier :colo: One thing about the creditors not being fixed debt.... Normally I would agree with that, but considering that a lot of the Toons creditors are transfer fee payments there is a strong case for including them as 'debt' despite the payments etc not being fixed. Sorry dude, haven't followed recent posts on here so had no idea I was copying your post, just got back and saw UV asked me a question. Thought it only polite to try and answer it Take your point about some of the debt being transfer money - although to lump it in as and refer to it without also referring to the fact that some of the clubs debtors are also transfer funds is perhaps a bit misleading.... Just found it funny that we picked up exactly the same point, right down to saying its the way it reads!. Anyway, transfer fees...... see your point, agree, but you know that NUFC wil have less coming in then going out from past transfers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Someone said yesterday that you claim to be an accountant. If you are then I'm 100% certain that you will be familiar with price elasticity? There is no way on earth that any club could raise ticket prices by 20% and maintain demand. With the way the economy is at the minute and the way casual fans are falling out of love with football a raise of 20% would easily see a fall in numbers sold by 20-30% minimum. Now I know you say in the quoted post that we can't raise prices, but in the first quote you claim that they should rise. Which is it? 1. I am an accountant, I don't need to claim or to be claimed. It is just for NE5 who simply ignores everything about finance or reality. 2. Whatever model you like, if you really wanna analyse it by economic theory. 3. The first quote is just sarcasm. If you can get the message, you should understand so called "great fanbase" behind Newcastle is actually very fragile, or elastic to demand in your words. The point is, you are correct, we cannot raise the ticket price, yet people are thinking that we have a great fanbase to support the club financially and we still have the money to make 15m+ investments on players every year. If we told them we need to raise the ticket price for the transfer fees / inflated wages, they will just turn away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 can someone change the thread title to "Find the real accountant" or add a vote in so forum members can vote as to who's the best accountant out of zero, colo's, quayside etc... riveting stuff! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 can someone change the thread title to "Find the real accountant" or add a vote in so forum members can vote as to who's the best accountant out of zero, colo's, quayside etc... riveting stuff! You love it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 can someone change the thread title to "Find the real accountant" or add a vote in so forum members can vote as to who's the best accountant out of zero, colo's, quayside etc... riveting stuff! You love it. no i don't, honest man i don't, i never even came back to read any more of this thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 can someone change the thread title to "Find the real accountant" or add a vote in so forum members can vote as to who's the best accountant out of zero, colo's, quayside etc... riveting stuff! It has to be macbeth. He has a website and his numbers are bigger. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 He wants me to pay for nest seasons season ticey this season, will I get a discount given back to me if we go down? He cannot charge the same price for Championship football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 can someone change the thread title to "Find the real accountant" or add a vote in so forum members can vote as to who's the best accountant out of zero, colo's, quayside etc... riveting stuff! It has to be macbeth. He has a website and his numbers are bigger. bigger font size or bigger in the sense of all the money fat freddy shepherd wasted? WAHEY!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 He wants me to pay for nest seasons season ticey this season, will I get a discount given back to me if we go down? He cannot charge the same price for Championship football. think you'll probably find he can do whatever the fuck he wants Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 He wants me to pay for nest seasons season ticey this season, will I get a discount given back to me if we go down? He cannot charge the same price for Championship football. think you'll probably find he can do whatever the f*** he wants True he can charge it but not many will pay it, people skint themselves now to pay for season tickets its not going to happen if we go down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 He wants me to pay for nest seasons season ticey this season, will I get a discount given back to me if we go down? He cannot charge the same price for Championship football. Of course he can. Prices don't go down if clubs get relegated. In fact, some clubs put the price up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 can someone change the thread title to "Find the real accountant" or add a vote in so forum members can vote as to who's the best accountant out of zero, colo's, quayside etc... riveting stuff! It has to be macbeth. He has a website and his numbers are bigger. bigger font size or bigger in the sense of all the money fat freddy shepherd wasted? WAHEY!!! we should have got Bob Murray in, he's an accountant and he really showed the scap metal dealer how its done Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 can someone change the thread title to "Find the real accountant" or add a vote in so forum members can vote as to who's the best accountant out of zero, colo's, quayside etc... riveting stuff! It has to be macbeth. He has a website and his numbers are bigger. bigger font size or bigger in the sense of all the money fat freddy shepherd wasted? WAHEY!!! we should have got Bob Murray in, he's an accountant and he really showed the scap metal dealer how its done Oh he's finally commented after all the lurking he has done on this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 can someone change the thread title to "Find the real accountant" or add a vote in so forum members can vote as to who's the best accountant out of zero, colo's, quayside etc... riveting stuff! It has to be macbeth. He has a website and his numbers are bigger. bigger font size or bigger in the sense of all the money fat freddy shepherd wasted? WAHEY!!! we should have got Bob Murray in, he's an accountant and he really showed the scap metal dealer how its done Oh he's finally commented after all the lurking he has done on this thread. first time I've looked at it, couldn't resist pointing out that Bob Murray was an accountant - as you and others ignored it the first time I pointed it out. Have you sat your history paper yet ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 can someone change the thread title to "Find the real accountant" or add a vote in so forum members can vote as to who's the best accountant out of zero, colo's, quayside etc... riveting stuff! It has to be macbeth. He has a website and his numbers are bigger. bigger font size or bigger in the sense of all the money fat freddy shepherd wasted? WAHEY!!! we should have got Bob Murray in, he's an accountant and he really showed the scap metal dealer how its done Oh he's finally commented after all the lurking he has done on this thread. first time I've looked at it, couldn't resist pointing out that Bob Murray was an accountant Oh, well that changes everything. Suddenly the fact that the old board fucked the club's finances big time doesn't matter anymore! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFunk Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 can someone change the thread title to "Find the real accountant" or add a vote in so forum members can vote as to who's the best accountant out of zero, colo's, quayside etc... riveting stuff! It has to be macbeth. He has a website and his numbers are bigger. bigger font size or bigger in the sense of all the money fat freddy shepherd wasted? WAHEY!!! we should have got Bob Murray in, he's an accountant and he really showed the scap metal dealer how its done Oh he's finally commented after all the lurking he has done on this thread. first time I've looked at it, couldn't resist pointing out that Bob Murray was an accountant - as you and others ignored it the first time I pointed it out. Have you sat your history paper yet ? hook, line, sinker Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I guess this is where an interesting thread turns to horseshit. Oh well, it was good while it lasted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 can someone change the thread title to "Find the real accountant" or add a vote in so forum members can vote as to who's the best accountant out of zero, colo's, quayside etc... riveting stuff! It has to be macbeth. He has a website and his numbers are bigger. bigger font size or bigger in the sense of all the money fat freddy shepherd wasted? WAHEY!!! we should have got Bob Murray in, he's an accountant and he really showed the scap metal dealer how its done i've already pointed out to you dumbfucks that "that" fred isn't the scrap metal shepherd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 http://www.sharecast.com/cgi-bin/sharecast/story.cgi?story_id=2577644 LONDON (SHARECAST) - Sports Direct, the firm owned by billionaire retailer and Newcastle United owner Mike Ashley, will not face action over its stakebuilding in rival sportswear retailer JJB Sports, the Office of Fair Trading revealed today Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I guess this is where an interesting thread turns to horseshit. Oh well, it was good while it lasted. I've no intention of trying to put people right in this thread Dave. Suffice to say, we will see how long it drags on, or how many people look back on Ashleys lack of ambition and fail to still grasp the basic point that if you want to succeed you have to spend big bucks. Ashleys current direction will never achieve anything near the league positions we have seen since 1992, so if thats what people want its up to them. Just like when they all said they wanted rid of Shepherd [for anybody] they won't be so keen on the reality when it happens though. So much so, that those european qualifications will be nothing other than a fond memory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 can someone change the thread title to "Find the real accountant" or add a vote in so forum members can vote as to who's the best accountant out of zero, colo's, quayside etc... riveting stuff! It has to be macbeth. He has a website and his numbers are bigger. bigger font size or bigger in the sense of all the money fat freddy shepherd wasted? WAHEY!!! we should have got Bob Murray in, he's an accountant and he really showed the scap metal dealer how its done i've already pointed out to you dumbfucks that "that" fred isn't the scrap metal shepherd. I'm referring to a post made by someone in the other thread, not sure who it was, maybe that bloke who says he's an accountant and doesn't know the difference between going into administration and going into liquidation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I guess this is where an interesting thread turns to horseshit. Oh well, it was good while it lasted. I've no intention of trying to put people right in this thread Dave. Suffice to say, we will see how long it drags on, or how many people look back on Ashleys lack of ambition and fail to still grasp the basic point that if you want to succeed you have to spend big bucks. Ashleys current direction will never achieve anything near the league positions we have seen since 1992, so if thats what people want its up to them. Just like when they all said they wanted rid of Shepherd [for anybody] they won't be so keen on the reality when it happens though. So much so, that those european qualifications will be nothing other than a fond memory. So, now you're up to speed on the lamentable state of the club's finances, and the degree to which Ashley is pumping in cash just to keep things going at all, perhaps you can explain to us where the money is going to come from. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I guess this is where an interesting thread turns to horseshit. Oh well, it was good while it lasted. I've no intention of trying to put people right in this thread Dave. Suffice to say, we will see how long it drags on, or how many people look back on Ashleys lack of ambition and fail to still grasp the basic point that if you want to succeed you have to spend big bucks. Ashleys current direction will never achieve anything near the league positions we have seen since 1992, so if thats what people want its up to them. Just like when they all said they wanted rid of Shepherd [for anybody] they won't be so keen on the reality when it happens though. So much so, that those european qualifications will be nothing other than a fond memory. now that you've looked at the finances a bit closer do you think we were nearing a point at which we probably wouldn't have got anyone to loan us anymore money to carry on the spending ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 NE5, you are the worst "fans" I have ever seen. I simply can't understand your logic. It seems like ultimately an owner should sacrifice everything he has for the club and he should invest over 90% of his own money to the club (cetainly a donation one) in order to bring instant success. What even worse is that he shouldn't evaluate the risk of investment because "no pain no gain" and so the first step is to spend money, then what happened next who fucking cares. Who cares for the club finance because sooner or later someone like Abramovich will buy the club and clear all the debt and we are definitely able to attract them as we are "a great club with great support with great ambition". So let's spend all the money because we need instant success to show our ambition. I f we don't spend the money then revenue drops, league position worsen, relegation, blah blah blah.... Jesus Christ. Really Jesus Christ. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 now that you've looked at the finances a bit closer do you think we were nearing a point at which we probably wouldn't have got anyone to loan us anymore money to carry on the spending ? I just don't understand how can NE5 defend Fred as it was Fred, who spend the money like what NE5 said we should, incurred a huge debt without bringing us any success and make us get into such a unfavourable position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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