NE5 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 shouldn't have been such a desperate need for him to do well though, as you had been so pleased with him until a month ago ? I didn't expect them to sort everything out in one or two windows, our midfield lacking in creativity is the biggest problem that I can see with our squad and they should have done something about it. I'm saying that now because I've always said that we lacked creativity and was willing to give them a chance to sort it, they haven't. what a load of whitewash, defending your man, and utter crap to go with it. Anybody but Fred. Hope the current shambles isn't too embarrassing for you mackems.gif Mike Ashley will never match the previous regime. The one that gave you the best 15 years of the last 50 by far. If you can put up league positions and european qualifications that show embarrassingly otherwise, I'll hold my hands up and admit it. Do you honestly think Shepherd was going to get us back into the Champions League? we know you thought at least 3 of the 6 managers would succeed Ozzie, you have said so on this very site. What do you think of the merits of appointing a manager who had won 4 titles with 2 different clubs and 3 manager of the year awards, which would make it 4 out of 6 you agreed with. Do you also still think that anyone who bought the club for 100m quid or more would have more idea than the last board [see my sig if you want to know who said this ?] Your second sentence shows that you have completely missed the point of my question. Why don't you try answering it, rather than spamming this same old drivel because you don't dare acknowledge the fact that Shepherd had long ago ceased to take us anywhere? my 2nd sentence, has the same ridiculous meaning as your quote in my sig. You said that anybody who bought the club would do better than the Halls and Shepherd. With your usual hindsight, are you now going to retract that and say it wasn't the case ? no reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 The club would be in even deeper shit right now if SJH hadn't found a buyer. Where would Shepherd have found the £20-30 million a year that is evidently necessary right now just to pay the players' wages and keep the club solvent? I guess the people who laughed at the idea that our increasingly ridiculous wages/turnover ratio was a problem must be feeling like proper tits right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggs Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 The club would be in even deeper s*** right now if SJH hadn't found a buyer. Where would Shepherd have found the £20-30 million a year that is evidently necessary right now just to pay the players' wages and keep the club solvent? I guess the people who laughed at the idea that our increasingly ridiculous wages/turnover ratio was a problem must be feeling like proper tits right now. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but would we be where we are now if fatboy was still running the club regrettably we will never know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 The club would be in even deeper s*** right now if SJH hadn't found a buyer. Where would Shepherd have found the £20-30 million a year that is evidently necessary right now just to pay the players' wages and keep the club solvent? I guess the people who laughed at the idea that our increasingly ridiculous wages/turnover ratio was a problem must be feeling like proper tits right now. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but would we be where we are now if fatboy was still running the club regrettably we will never know. Callling the administrators, is my guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Hindsight is a wonderful thing but would we be where we are now if fatboy was still running the club regrettably we will never know. That's a strange choice of words, we were already paying £8 million a year to service the debt, try sticking £30 million on top of that. I'm sure we'd paid something like £5 million trying to re-structure the debt in the last set of accounts before the takeover, all money bleeding out of the club. Income was less than expenditure so you then have to add to that every year at a time when money just isn't being loaned and you have a massive problem, that isn't hindsight, it's the state of the economy. I'm not even sure any of this is hindsight, the clubs finances have been discussed on here for years and in the main it's all been shown to be true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggs Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Hindsight is a wonderful thing but would we be where we are now if fatboy was still running the club regrettably we will never know. That's a strange choice of words, we were already paying £8 million a year to service the debt, try sticking £30 million on top of that. I'm sure we'd paid something like £5 million trying to re-structure the debt in the last set of accounts before the takeover, all money bleeding out of the club. Income was less than expenditure so you then have to add to that every year at a time when money just isn't being loaned and you have a massive problem, that isn't hindsight, it's the state of the economy. I'm not even sure any of this is hindsight, the clubs finances have been discussed on here for years and in the main it's all been shown to be true. Regrettably is the wrong word oops silly me . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Hindsight is a wonderful thing but would we be where we are now if fatboy was still running the club regrettably we will never know. That's a strange choice of words, we were already paying £8 million a year to service the debt, try sticking £30 million on top of that. I'm sure we'd paid something like £5 million trying to re-structure the debt in the last set of accounts before the takeover, all money bleeding out of the club. Income was less than expenditure so you then have to add to that every year at a time when money just isn't being loaned and you have a massive problem, that isn't hindsight, it's the state of the economy. I'm not even sure any of this is hindsight, the clubs finances have been discussed on here for years and in the main it's all been shown to be true. In the main, it's actually been shown to be even worse than those who were concerned about it expected. No mystery now why SJH was looking for a quick sale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sicko2ndbest Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Hindsight is a wonderful thing but would we be where we are now if fatboy was still running the club regrettably we will never know. That's a strange choice of words, we were already paying £8 million a year to service the debt, try sticking £30 million on top of that. I'm sure we'd paid something like £5 million trying to re-structure the debt in the last set of accounts before the takeover, all money bleeding out of the club. Income was less than expenditure so you then have to add to that every year at a time when money just isn't being loaned and you have a massive problem, that isn't hindsight, it's the state of the economy. I'm not even sure any of this is hindsight, the clubs finances have been discussed on here for years and in the main it's all been shown to be true. In the main, it's actually been shown to be even worse than those who were concerned about it expected. No mystery now why SJH was looking for a quick sale. It must have been like christmas for SJH. A man wanted to buy the club at a premium with no due diligence Remember polygon and the other hedge fund that did due diligence on us. No wonder they chose to turn away from the deal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Hindsight is a wonderful thing but would we be where we are now if fatboy was still running the club regrettably we will never know. That's a strange choice of words, we were already paying £8 million a year to service the debt, try sticking £30 million on top of that. I'm sure we'd paid something like £5 million trying to re-structure the debt in the last set of accounts before the takeover, all money bleeding out of the club. Income was less than expenditure so you then have to add to that every year at a time when money just isn't being loaned and you have a massive problem, that isn't hindsight, it's the state of the economy. I'm not even sure any of this is hindsight, the clubs finances have been discussed on here for years and in the main it's all been shown to be true. In the main, it's actually been shown to be even worse than those who were concerned about it expected. No mystery now why SJH was looking for a quick sale. It must have been like christmas for SJH. A man wanted to buy the club at a premium with no due diligence Remember polygon and the other hedge fund that did due diligence on us. No wonder they chose to turn away from the deal I've been thinking the same thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 The club would be in even deeper shit right now if SJH hadn't found a buyer. Where would Shepherd have found the £20-30 million a year that is evidently necessary right now just to pay the players' wages and keep the club solvent? I guess the people who laughed at the idea that our increasingly ridiculous wages/turnover ratio was a problem must be feeling like proper tits right now. so, do you or do you not, with your usual hindsight, retract your statement that anyone with over 100m to buy the club with would make a better fist of it than the current owners ? And again with your usual hindsight - getting to be a habit this like isn't it - retract your agreement with Souness spending a fortune and kicking out 2 of our best players for 4m quid in total, seeing as you have now clearly taken the exact opposite view to the one you had at that particular time ie when criticising the spending [and selling] ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 What statement? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 shouldn't have been such a desperate need for him to do well though, as you had been so pleased with him until a month ago ? I didn't expect them to sort everything out in one or two windows, our midfield lacking in creativity is the biggest problem that I can see with our squad and they should have done something about it. I'm saying that now because I've always said that we lacked creativity and was willing to give them a chance to sort it, they haven't. what a load of whitewash, defending your man, and utter crap to go with it. Anybody but Fred. Hope the current shambles isn't too embarrassing for you mackems.gif Mike Ashley will never match the previous regime. The one that gave you the best 15 years of the last 50 by far. If you can put up league positions and european qualifications that show embarrassingly otherwise, I'll hold my hands up and admit it. Do you honestly think Shepherd was going to get us back into the Champions League? we know you thought at least 3 of the 6 managers would succeed Ozzie, you have said so on this very site. What do you think of the merits of appointing a manager who had won 4 titles with 2 different clubs and 3 manager of the year awards, which would make it 4 out of 6 you agreed with. Do you also still think that anyone who bought the club for 100m quid or more would have more idea than the last board [see my sig if you want to know who said this ?] Your second sentence shows that you have completely missed the point of my question. Why don't you try answering it, rather than spamming this same old drivel because you don't dare acknowledge the fact that Shepherd had long ago ceased to take us anywhere? my 2nd sentence, has the same ridiculous meaning as your quote in my sig. You said that anybody who bought the club would do better than the Halls and Shepherd. With your usual hindsight, are you now going to retract that and say it wasn't the case ? no reply no reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 The club would be in even deeper shit right now if SJH hadn't found a buyer. Where would Shepherd have found the £20-30 million a year that is evidently necessary right now just to pay the players' wages and keep the club solvent? I guess the people who laughed at the idea that our increasingly ridiculous wages/turnover ratio was a problem must be feeling like proper tits right now. so, do you or do you not, with your usual hindsight, retract your statement that anyone with over 100m to buy the club with would make a better fist of it than the current owners ? And again with your usual hindsight - getting to be a habit this like isn't it - retract your agreement with Souness spending a fortune and kicking out 2 of our best players for 4m quid in total, seeing as you have now clearly taken the exact opposite view to the one you had at that particular time ie when criticising the spending [and selling] ? no reply............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 . mackems.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I'd really like a timeline of how Ozzies single quote, paraphrased as " so long as the new owners were chasing success I don't see what's wrong with a change at the top", has morphed into "I don't care who the new owners are. Anyone can do a better job than Shepherd." Oh wait, this was a thread about Wise. Was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I'd really like a timeline of how Ozzies single quote, paraphrased as " so long as the new owners were chasing success I don't see what's wrong with a change at the top", has morphed into "I don't care who the new owners are. Anyone can do a better job than Shepherd." You lack the special brand of agenda-driven idiocy necessary to transform one into the other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I'd really like a timeline of how Ozzies single quote, paraphrased as " so long as the new owners were chasing success I don't see what's wrong with a change at the top", has morphed into "I don't care who the new owners are. Anyone can do a better job than Shepherd." Oh wait, this was a thread about Wise. Was. the quote is : "any individual or group resourceful enough to raise the £100 million plus that would be needed today to take over the club is likely also to be intelligent and resourceful enough to make a better fist of it than the current board" - ozzie mandiarse 24th Oct 2006 So, the obvious answer is that they haven't ? Which, using mandiarse's remarkable gift of hindsight, would appear to be the case, wouldn't you agree ? Unless of course, he is still happy that the new regime is moving the club towards matching the european qualifications, capacity gates and therefore the long term revenue [at least] of the board he was slating, which is down to the appointment of Dennis Wise and other factors which come together as part of the running of the club ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Alas, in October 2006 we did not know quite how badly the old board had fucked up the finances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I'd really like a timeline of how Ozzies single quote, paraphrased as " so long as the new owners were chasing success I don't see what's wrong with a change at the top", has morphed into "I don't care who the new owners are. Anyone can do a better job than Shepherd." Oh wait, this was a thread about Wise. Was. the quote is : "any individual or group resourceful enough to raise the £100 million plus that would be needed today to take over the club is likely also to be intelligent and resourceful enough to make a better fist of it than the current board" - ozzie mandiarse 24th Oct 2006 So, the obvious answer is that they haven't ? Which, using mandiarse's remarkable gift of hindsight, would appear to be the case, wouldn't you agree ? Unless of course, he is still happy that the new regime is moving the club towards matching the european qualifications, capacity gates and therefore the long term revenue [at least] of the board he was slating, which is down to the appointment of Dennis Wise and other factors which come together as part of the running of the club ? Cheers. I'd been unaware that quote was now the one under discussion. But actually yes, I have a major problem with your interpretation. You've taken the last part of that sentence "... than the current board" and tried to apply it as a criticism of the entire tenure of the board. When that quote was posted, Late October 2006, we were just in the middle of a 9 game winless streak, Roeder'd been found out as having completely lucked up that 7th place finish and there was still a lot of dissatisfaction floating around about the board, spending and Souness. When Ozzie said that I think it's very, very clear he was talking about what they'd done recently and not what they'd done as a whole. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Alas, in October 2006 we did not know quite how badly the old board had fucked up the finances. so you admit that you backed their efforts to improve the team ? Or do you think we did the wrong thing in backing Bobby Robson and should have stayed in mid table financial solvency instead of playing in the Champions League with the help of huge parts played by Bellamy and Robert, who you then backed the sale of ? What is your opinion on Mike Ashleys progress in matching them so far, if indeed you actually think that playing in the Champions League was the preferable option of the two ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I'd really like a timeline of how Ozzies single quote, paraphrased as " so long as the new owners were chasing success I don't see what's wrong with a change at the top", has morphed into "I don't care who the new owners are. Anyone can do a better job than Shepherd." Oh wait, this was a thread about Wise. Was. the quote is : "any individual or group resourceful enough to raise the £100 million plus that would be needed today to take over the club is likely also to be intelligent and resourceful enough to make a better fist of it than the current board" - ozzie mandiarse 24th Oct 2006 So, the obvious answer is that they haven't ? Which, using mandiarse's remarkable gift of hindsight, would appear to be the case, wouldn't you agree ? Unless of course, he is still happy that the new regime is moving the club towards matching the european qualifications, capacity gates and therefore the long term revenue [at least] of the board he was slating, which is down to the appointment of Dennis Wise and other factors which come together as part of the running of the club ? Cheers. I'd been unaware that quote was now the one under discussion. But actually yes, I have a major problem with your interpretation. You've taken the last part of that sentence "... than the current board" and tried to apply it as a criticism of the entire tenure of the board. When that quote was posted, Late October 2006, we were just in the middle of a 9 game winless streak, Roeder'd been found out as having completely lucked up that 7th place finish and there was still a lot of dissatisfaction floating around about the board, spending and Souness. When Ozzie said that I think it's very, very clear he was talking about what they'd done recently and not what they'd done as a whole. You are quite wrong. There was a lot of support for what Souness was doing, with mandiarse one of his main supporters. I think his statement is very clear, as clear as is possible, meaning that he thought pretty much anybody would come in and do better. By the way, unless I'm very much mistaken, I didn't see the comment "providing the new board want success" in the quote by mandiarse, originally found by UV, and I think that comment and the one in my sig is pretty much of an identical meaning. If Mandiarse wants to admit he got it spectacularly wrong, then there is nothing to stop him admitting it, I have no idea why you can't leave him to do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Am I the only one who detects a certain irony in these idiots who constantly fulminate about "hindsight" (apparently unable to tell the difference from "history") constantly snouting around in the detritus of three-year-old discussions in an infantile search for ammunition to try and silence other posters? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I'd really like a timeline of how Ozzies single quote, paraphrased as " so long as the new owners were chasing success I don't see what's wrong with a change at the top", has morphed into "I don't care who the new owners are. Anyone can do a better job than Shepherd." Oh wait, this was a thread about Wise. Was. the quote is : "any individual or group resourceful enough to raise the £100 million plus that would be needed today to take over the club is likely also to be intelligent and resourceful enough to make a better fist of it than the current board" - ozzie mandiarse 24th Oct 2006 So, the obvious answer is that they haven't ? Which, using mandiarse's remarkable gift of hindsight, would appear to be the case, wouldn't you agree ? Unless of course, he is still happy that the new regime is moving the club towards matching the european qualifications, capacity gates and therefore the long term revenue [at least] of the board he was slating, which is down to the appointment of Dennis Wise and other factors which come together as part of the running of the club ? Cheers. I'd been unaware that quote was now the one under discussion. But actually yes, I have a major problem with your interpretation. You've taken the last part of that sentence "... than the current board" and tried to apply it as a criticism of the entire tenure of the board. When that quote was posted, Late October 2006, we were just in the middle of a 9 game winless streak, Roeder'd been found out as having completely lucked up that 7th place finish and there was still a lot of dissatisfaction floating around about the board, spending and Souness. When Ozzie said that I think it's very, very clear he was talking about what they'd done recently and not what they'd done as a whole. You are quite wrong. There was a lot of support for what Souness was doing, with mandiarse one of his main supporters. I think his statement is very clear, as clear as is possible, meaning that he thought pretty much anybody would come in and do better. Then the disagreement is the length of time to which he was speaking. You interpret it as "Do better than they've done since 1992", the entire rest of the world interprets it as "Do better since the sacking of SBR." edit: also he said "likely" never "certainly" so attributing an absolute statement to him is also incorrect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Am I the only one who detects a certain irony in these idiots who constantly fulminate about "hindsight" (apparently unable to tell the difference from "history") constantly snouting around in the detritus of three-year-old discussions in an infantile search for ammunition to try and silence other posters? tell us how many of the appointments made by the Halls and Shepherd that you backed to succeed at the time of their appointments ? If you meant differently to what your comments in my sig appears, then please explain to us what you really meant ? It's quite simple really, even for you ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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