Llambias Q&A with Chronicle: OP updated with Thursday's articles

[Baggio]

I was reading some of the stuff Llambias said in these interviews, and that bit about wanting to adopt the same model as Villa in particular.

 

But he then goes on to say the Dennis Wise / manager / DoF style seperation of roles works very well.

 

Ironically, probably the main reason Lerner and MON have done so well at Villa is because there is a chairman who trusts his manager's judgement 100 percent and makes the money available, and lets the manager get on with running the club.

 

Having complications like Wise will never let that kind of situation flourish.

 

agreed Brummie, but unfortunately they’re so stupid they can’t see this and the comparison too Villa is hilarious on so many levels.

 

But unlike Lerner, Ashley was stupid enough to buy a football club without realising there was £100m+ additional debt and without any idea of how to run a football club would employ a bunch of inexperienced ‘mates’ – ooooops!

i think they mean in the way they buy younger players and look for long term value with their purchases rather than the set up of the staff.

Having “the set up of the staff” is clearly going to have a major influence on buying players. Comparing the model at Villa to NUFC is hilarious, if not offensive. How anyone can dismiss “the set up of the staff” as being irrelevant is beyond me.

They didn't say they were hoping to be an exact replica of Villa though, just that we hoped to be in their position to challenge.

I know. But with the “the set up of the staff” we have?

The same set up had Spurs up there challenging 2 years back don't forget, our problem is lack of money more than anything which the club are hoping to drag around over the next few years, we're a big club with a large income so if they do bring costs down then we should have a strong future financially, it's just going to be s*** until they manage it.

 

Kinnear won't be good enough to get us up there but realistically he won't be managing in a few years anyway.

 

We have the same set up as Spurs were challenging with 2 years ago! – WTF.

 

they may have similar job titles, but that’s where any comparison ends, they had Martin Jol, we’ve got Kinnear, etc!

 

What was it FFS said? “anyone can buy a club, but not everyone can RUN a club”. Even though I hate quoting FFS, he hit the nail on the head when you consider Ashley/Llambias/Kinnear/Wise are at the helm. Which one of those 4 has any experience in running a Premiership club? Even after the “mistakes” of the last 2 years, the penny hasn’t dropped.

 

Comparing the amount of employees and turnover at a Casino to running a EPL football club is an example of frightening naivety.

 

I've already said Kinnear won't be good enough so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there.

 

From Llambias' point of view running a football club is like running every other business, he's not involved with the football side and is there to get the income up and the costs down, nothing more.

 

I think you will find that most people buying clubs have no previous history of running a Premiership club either.

[Guest neesy111]

lambias is managing director not chairman which ashley is now

 

so really lambias is there just to keep the day-to-day running of the club going while ashley will make any major decision

[Guest Mucky01]

I was reading some of the stuff Llambias said in these interviews, and that bit about wanting to adopt the same model as Villa in particular.

 

But he then goes on to say the Dennis Wise / manager / DoF style seperation of roles works very well.

 

Ironically, probably the main reason Lerner and MON have done so well at Villa is because there is a chairman who trusts his manager's judgement 100 percent and makes the money available, and lets the manager get on with running the club.

 

Having complications like Wise will never let that kind of situation flourish.

 

agreed Brummie, but unfortunately they’re so stupid they can’t see this and the comparison too Villa is hilarious on so many levels.

 

But unlike Lerner, Ashley was stupid enough to buy a football club without realising there was £100m+ additional debt and without any idea of how to run a football club would employ a bunch of inexperienced ‘mates’ – ooooops!

i think they mean in the way they buy younger players and look for long term value with their purchases rather than the set up of the staff.

Having “the set up of the staff” is clearly going to have a major influence on buying players. Comparing the model at Villa to NUFC is hilarious, if not offensive. How anyone can dismiss “the set up of the staff” as being irrelevant is beyond me.

They didn't say they were hoping to be an exact replica of Villa though, just that we hoped to be in their position to challenge.

I know. But with the “the set up of the staff” we have?

The same set up had Spurs up there challenging 2 years back don't forget, our problem is lack of money more than anything which the club are hoping to drag around over the next few years, we're a big club with a large income so if they do bring costs down then we should have a strong future financially, it's just going to be s*** until they manage it.

 

Kinnear won't be good enough to get us up there but realistically he won't be managing in a few years anyway.

 

We have the same set up as Spurs were challenging with 2 years ago! – WTF.

 

they may have similar job titles, but that’s where any comparison ends, they had Martin Jol, we’ve got Kinnear, etc!

 

What was it FFS said? “anyone can buy a club, but not everyone can RUN a club”. Even though I hate quoting FFS, he hit the nail on the head when you consider Ashley/Llambias/Kinnear/Wise are at the helm. Which one of those 4 has any experience in running a Premiership club? Even after the “mistakes” of the last 2 years, the penny hasn’t dropped.

 

Comparing the amount of employees and turnover at a Casino to running a EPL football club is an example of frightening naivety.

 

I've already said Kinnear won't be good enough so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there.

 

From Llambias' point of view running a football club is like running every other business, he's not involved with the football side and is there to get the income up and the costs down, nothing more.

 

I think you will find that most people buying clubs have no previous history of running a Premiership club either.

 

“I think you’ll find” that anyone with no experience of running an EPL club will get someone in with the experience necessary.

 

Anyone with the view that “running a football club is like running every other business” – should be shot.

[Baggio]

I was reading some of the stuff Llambias said in these interviews, and that bit about wanting to adopt the same model as Villa in particular.

 

But he then goes on to say the Dennis Wise / manager / DoF style seperation of roles works very well.

 

Ironically, probably the main reason Lerner and MON have done so well at Villa is because there is a chairman who trusts his manager's judgement 100 percent and makes the money available, and lets the manager get on with running the club.

 

Having complications like Wise will never let that kind of situation flourish.

 

agreed Brummie, but unfortunately they’re so stupid they can’t see this and the comparison too Villa is hilarious on so many levels.

 

But unlike Lerner, Ashley was stupid enough to buy a football club without realising there was £100m+ additional debt and without any idea of how to run a football club would employ a bunch of inexperienced ‘mates’ – ooooops!

i think they mean in the way they buy younger players and look for long term value with their purchases rather than the set up of the staff.

Having “the set up of the staff” is clearly going to have a major influence on buying players. Comparing the model at Villa to NUFC is hilarious, if not offensive. How anyone can dismiss “the set up of the staff” as being irrelevant is beyond me.

They didn't say they were hoping to be an exact replica of Villa though, just that we hoped to be in their position to challenge.

I know. But with the “the set up of the staff” we have?

The same set up had Spurs up there challenging 2 years back don't forget, our problem is lack of money more than anything which the club are hoping to drag around over the next few years, we're a big club with a large income so if they do bring costs down then we should have a strong future financially, it's just going to be s*** until they manage it.

 

Kinnear won't be good enough to get us up there but realistically he won't be managing in a few years anyway.

 

We have the same set up as Spurs were challenging with 2 years ago! – WTF.

 

they may have similar job titles, but that’s where any comparison ends, they had Martin Jol, we’ve got Kinnear, etc!

 

What was it FFS said? “anyone can buy a club, but not everyone can RUN a club”. Even though I hate quoting FFS, he hit the nail on the head when you consider Ashley/Llambias/Kinnear/Wise are at the helm. Which one of those 4 has any experience in running a Premiership club? Even after the “mistakes” of the last 2 years, the penny hasn’t dropped.

 

Comparing the amount of employees and turnover at a Casino to running a EPL football club is an example of frightening naivety.

 

I've already said Kinnear won't be good enough so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there.

 

From Llambias' point of view running a football club is like running every other business, he's not involved with the football side and is there to get the income up and the costs down, nothing more.

 

I think you will find that most people buying clubs have no previous history of running a Premiership club either.

 

“I think you’ll find” that anyone with no experience of running an EPL club will get someone in with the experience necessary.

 

Anyone with the view that “running a football club is like running every other business” – should be shot.

 

Which is why they've got Wise in, someone who has been involved in football at playing and management level, perhaps he isn't qualified to give his opinion on football side of things but I'm interested in who the likes of Portsmouth, West Ham, Villa and Man City have brought in who were formally involved with other Premiership clubs, can you tell me who they brought in?

 

For the second part you don't seem to be reading what I'm telling you properly, From Llambias' point of view running a football club is like running every other business, he say himself that he has no say in what goes on on the football side and is there to run the business side...

 

“But quite honestly my position is to run the stadium side of things and the income of the club.

 

“It’s all part and parcel of my job, that’s why I was there.

 

“I don’t manage the team and don’t get involved with the team.

 

“I certainly don’t know enough about football to start telling Joe Kinnear who to put on and take off.

 

“I’m there to support and run this business for Mike.

 

“I can understand why he didn’t come and I can understand why Dennis didn’t come because they are associated with the football side of things.

 

“But for me, I run the business, we sell the pies and chips.”

[80]

As I feared, Ashley and Llambias are disavowing the footballing aspect of the club. The trouble is if refuse to give significant consideration to footballing matters, we must ask who effectively holds the executive powers in that theatre? Who informs them how and when they should act? I believe, as per usual in England, the DoF has ended up securing a niche for himself, able to allow blame to be attached to the 'coach', while possessing the ear of whoever holds his job in their hands. Jimenez is gone, Vetere is merely a scout so far as I'm aware, and Kinnear is/was a patsy. Wise, it keeps being suggested, is untouchable. While I don't think that will quite be the case, I do strongly suspect his position in the decision-making structure will hold us back for some time (see Comolli).

 

It wouldn't have been so bad if Wise were a person who was there as a 'Director of the Director of Football' - literally the footballing eyes and ears of the chairman, if the chairman rightly recognises he is so incompetent in that sphere. Someone fulfilling that role would, obviously, need to be trustworthy enough not to seek to seize power themselves (for someone who did, see Pleat).

[NE5]

As I feared, Ashley and Llambias are disavowing the footballing aspect of the club. The trouble is if refuse to give significant consideration to footballing matters, we must ask who effectively holds the executive powers in that theatre? Who informs them how and when they should act? I believe, as per usual in England, the DoF has ended up securing a niche for himself, able to allow blame to be attached to the 'coach', while possessing the ear of whoever holds his job in their hands. Jimenez is gone, Vetere is merely a scout so far as I'm aware, and Kinnear is/was a patsy. Wise, it keeps being suggested, is untouchable. While I don't think that will quite be the case, I do strongly suspect his position in the decision-making structure will hold us back for some time (see Comolli).

 

It wouldn't have been so bad if Wise were a person who was there as a 'Director of the Director of Football' - literally the footballing eyes and ears of the chairman, if the chairman rightly recognises he is so incompetent in that sphere. Someone fulfilling that role would, obviously, need to be trustworthy enough not to seek to seize power themselves (for someone who did, see Pleat).

 

Unfortunately, having a DOF who is not particularly good at spotting/attracting players to the club, who doesn't lose his job, is the problem with the DOF system. Its the same as employing the same shite manager for years and years. Yet those who support this system, like baggy does [although I would say now he's just got a problem with admitting he was wrong] can't see it.

 

Without even mentioning that any manager who allows others to sign his players for him and taking the rap for it, isn't worth a light anyway.

 

 

[NE5]

I was reading some of the stuff Llambias said in these interviews, and that bit about wanting to adopt the same model as Villa in particular.

 

But he then goes on to say the Dennis Wise / manager / DoF style seperation of roles works very well.

 

Ironically, probably the main reason Lerner and MON have done so well at Villa is because there is a chairman who trusts his manager's judgement 100 percent and makes the money available, and lets the manager get on with running the club.

 

Having complications like Wise will never let that kind of situation flourish.

 

agreed Brummie, but unfortunately they’re so stupid they can’t see this and the comparison too Villa is hilarious on so many levels.

 

But unlike Lerner, Ashley was stupid enough to buy a football club without realising there was £100m+ additional debt and without any idea of how to run a football club would employ a bunch of inexperienced ‘mates’ – ooooops!

i think they mean in the way they buy younger players and look for long term value with their purchases rather than the set up of the staff.

Having “the set up of the staff” is clearly going to have a major influence on buying players. Comparing the model at Villa to NUFC is hilarious, if not offensive. How anyone can dismiss “the set up of the staff” as being irrelevant is beyond me.

They didn't say they were hoping to be an exact replica of Villa though, just that we hoped to be in their position to challenge.

I know. But with the “the set up of the staff” we have?

The same set up had Spurs up there challenging 2 years back don't forget, our problem is lack of money more than anything which the club are hoping to drag around over the next few years, we're a big club with a large income so if they do bring costs down then we should have a strong future financially, it's just going to be s*** until they manage it.

 

Kinnear won't be good enough to get us up there but realistically he won't be managing in a few years anyway.

 

We have the same set up as Spurs were challenging with 2 years ago! – WTF.

 

they may have similar job titles, but that’s where any comparison ends, they had Martin Jol, we’ve got Kinnear, etc!

 

What was it FFS said? “anyone can buy a club, but not everyone can RUN a club”. Even though I hate quoting FFS, he hit the nail on the head when you consider Ashley/Llambias/Kinnear/Wise are at the helm. Which one of those 4 has any experience in running a Premiership club? Even after the “mistakes” of the last 2 years, the penny hasn’t dropped.

 

Comparing the amount of employees and turnover at a Casino to running a EPL football club is an example of frightening naivety.

 

I've already said Kinnear won't be good enough so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there.

 

From Llambias' point of view running a football club is like running every other business, he's not involved with the football side and is there to get the income up and the costs down, nothing more.

 

I think you will find that most people buying clubs have no previous history of running a Premiership club either.

 

“I think you’ll find” that anyone with no experience of running an EPL club will get someone in with the experience necessary.

 

Anyone with the view that “running a football club is like running every other business” – should be shot.

 

correct. And dozens, at least, have said it too.

 

 

[OzzieMandias]

Get back in your own thread NE5.

 

nowt to say then ?

 

 

Just joking man, I'm pretty bored, we all know spending money improves your chances of doing well, but it's not a given, you need the right manager, the right scouts and the right amount of money but you can do well without spending massive amount if you have the right manager e.g. Moyes and Everton.

 

on the other hand, if you are lucky enough to get a decent manager, and it IS a lottery, and don't back him, he'll be off. Like Moyes, unless Everton are taken over or it all suddenly goes tits up for him.

 

When you say "do well", how well do YOU want to do ?

 

 

 

It's a lottery getting a good manager?

 

No it's a skill, not an easy one but it is definately a skill.

 

is it now ?

 

We'll see how easily Arsenal replace Wenger and ManU replace Ferguson.

 

Or Everton replace Moyes ..........

 

 

 

Even a "good manager" isn't necessarily the "right manager", which I suppose adds credence to NE5's "lottery" theory.

 

Bit simplistic on the whole though, as usual.

 

you mean "realistic", as usual. Which also, as usual, too many people fail to grasp.

 

 

were you happy with the kinnear appointment ?

 

hey getting a good manager is a lottery right,surely theres as much chance getting a s*** one to turn out good results as there is a good one turning out bad to your thinking or maybe you are piffling again in anattempt to detect any criticism from the your beloved fred ?

 

(conversly it must work with players aswell...shevchenko,veron,woodgate at real,keane at liverpool......good players who didn't do it so surely it means it's pointless spending big as these players prove it works)

 

 

i'll stop you in your tracks........."back your manager"............what with ? where was the money going to come from......at this point you mention the debt of others and as always i mention the debt of the top 4 is different to ours as they are making money aside from those with sugar daddies where as we have consistently made losses (not a good scenario when begging to the banks with few assets left to hock). look at the other clubs who,like us have lived beyond their means,they are all cutting right back and ask yourself what liverpools or arsenals spending would be like if they missed out on the champs league for 3 or 4 years ?

 

often on here you have alluded to others having thir heads in the sand but it is clear the one one doing an ostrich is yourself in relation to the position fred left us in.

 

silly.

 

Especially when there are still people hell bent on defending Ashley to the bitter end, and I mean bitter end = relegation and with little chance of coming back.

 

Pleased for you that you still appear to write off all those european qualifications and champions league appearances and the manner in which they were achieved.

 

Still, nobody is "embarrassing us" any more, right ?

 

 

BORING !

 

we've covered the euro qualifications to death as that has little to do with the position we were in spring 2007.

 

defending ashley to the bitter end......like you defending fred ?

 

i never mentioned being embarassed by fred's utterences.

 

 

nice to see you keep your head in the sand re our position when fred left.

 

you mentioned Shepherd, not me, with a silly childish comment.

 

Yep, I will "defend" anybody who gave me the only 15 years out of 45 that tried to compete at the levels this club should always compete at, and thus gave me the best most consistent and highest league positions as a result.  As I've said before. 

 

 

 

Then you should be happy that your season ticket money is going towards paying the bills he racked up in the process.

[indi]

 

http://www.newcastle-united-supporters-club.co.uk/llambias_response.php

Response to Derek Llambias interview

 

“We don’t want to talk about Kevin Keegan, which is an issue they will insist on talking about. Unfortunately, that’s not what the tone is.”

Unfortunately this statement, above all, demonstrates how out of touch Derek Llambias and the entire Mike Ashley regime are with what it is fans are asking for.

Kevin Keegan, although forever a legend at this club, is past history. Our rather more pressing concern is to establish how Mike Ashley intends to “drive the club forward” and reinforce how the fans of NUFC can and need to be a significant part of it, going forward.

 

I'm sorry but that bit does not stack up to everything which NUSC has publically stood for since day one.

 

They want Ashley out, pure and simply there has been no 'we want to establish how he intends to take the club forward.

 

The rest of the response seems prety measured though, and is an improvement on past statements.

 

They've made a pretty obvious shift towards that IMO, before this latest statement.

 

Agreed.

 

People need to understand the dynamics of how the origingal catalyst (setting up NUSC to as a protest against Ashley primarily), slowly but surely turns into a more well rounded and considered approach. It is the very nature of all protest movemets, sooner or later you're having coffee with the people who you started out protesting against etc...

 

Having listened to the meeting they quite clearly remain a one-issue protest group, everything else they supposedly do it simply window dressing designed to allow them to pass themselves off as a genuine supporters' group.

 

Don't get me wrong, there's obviously some people (Tom for example) who have genuine intentions to work towards building something, but the majority of the people involved are only interested in one thing and the "leadership" appear to be mainly motivated by ego.

 

There's little to no considered thought gone into nearly everything they've done so far, they don't even know what they stand for, for fuck's sake, and they're organising a rally to promote, protest, highlight... ...erm, they're organising a rally for some reason - fuck knows why, they don't seem to.

 

It's only been running a couple of months, but I see you've already judged it.

 

Well, yeah, that's what I said, wasn't it?

 

In those few months they've shown enough for me to make a judgement on them and I judge them: shit.

 

The things that have lead me to judge them so continue and show no signs of changing: They don't know what they stand for, they're more interested in being on telly than actually helping the situation, they're arrogant beyond belief, they lack intelligence in the way they go about things, they don't learn from their mistakes, they lie, they are not open to different opinions, they have no solutions, they are unable to plan anything, they have no concept of how to communicate, they make things worse rather than better, they are charging people money (for what!?!), they are hypocrites, they claim to be a supporters' club but are clearly a single-issue protest group therefore making it less likely that a true supporters' group will develop, and so-on. Or in other words: they're shit.

 

My opinion remains open to change should they address some or all of these issues, however they show no signs of doing so, so I'm not holding my breath.

[NE5]

Get back in your own thread NE5.

 

nowt to say then ?

 

 

Just joking man, I'm pretty bored, we all know spending money improves your chances of doing well, but it's not a given, you need the right manager, the right scouts and the right amount of money but you can do well without spending massive amount if you have the right manager e.g. Moyes and Everton.

 

on the other hand, if you are lucky enough to get a decent manager, and it IS a lottery, and don't back him, he'll be off. Like Moyes, unless Everton are taken over or it all suddenly goes tits up for him.

 

When you say "do well", how well do YOU want to do ?

 

 

 

It's a lottery getting a good manager?

 

No it's a skill, not an easy one but it is definately a skill.

 

is it now ?

 

We'll see how easily Arsenal replace Wenger and ManU replace Ferguson.

 

Or Everton replace Moyes ..........

 

 

 

Even a "good manager" isn't necessarily the "right manager", which I suppose adds credence to NE5's "lottery" theory.

 

Bit simplistic on the whole though, as usual.

 

you mean "realistic", as usual. Which also, as usual, too many people fail to grasp.

 

 

were you happy with the kinnear appointment ?

 

hey getting a good manager is a lottery right,surely theres as much chance getting a s*** one to turn out good results as there is a good one turning out bad to your thinking or maybe you are piffling again in anattempt to detect any criticism from the your beloved fred ?

 

(conversly it must work with players aswell...shevchenko,veron,woodgate at real,keane at liverpool......good players who didn't do it so surely it means it's pointless spending big as these players prove it works)

 

 

i'll stop you in your tracks........."back your manager"............what with ? where was the money going to come from......at this point you mention the debt of others and as always i mention the debt of the top 4 is different to ours as they are making money aside from those with sugar daddies where as we have consistently made losses (not a good scenario when begging to the banks with few assets left to hock). look at the other clubs who,like us have lived beyond their means,they are all cutting right back and ask yourself what liverpools or arsenals spending would be like if they missed out on the champs league for 3 or 4 years ?

 

often on here you have alluded to others having thir heads in the sand but it is clear the one one doing an ostrich is yourself in relation to the position fred left us in.

 

silly.

 

Especially when there are still people hell bent on defending Ashley to the bitter end, and I mean bitter end = relegation and with little chance of coming back.

 

Pleased for you that you still appear to write off all those european qualifications and champions league appearances and the manner in which they were achieved.

 

Still, nobody is "embarrassing us" any more, right ?

 

 

BORING !

 

we've covered the euro qualifications to death as that has little to do with the position we were in spring 2007.

 

defending ashley to the bitter end......like you defending fred ?

 

i never mentioned being embarassed by fred's utterences.

 

 

nice to see you keep your head in the sand re our position when fred left.

 

you mentioned Shepherd, not me, with a silly childish comment.

 

Yep, I will "defend" anybody who gave me the only 15 years out of 45 that tried to compete at the levels this club should always compete at, and thus gave me the best most consistent and highest league positions as a result.  As I've said before. 

 

 

 

Then you should be happy that your season ticket money is going towards paying the bills he racked up in the process.

 

The alternative is of course, only supporting the club when they are winning, as you did when the Halls and Shepherd took over [if you even did that]

 

 

[Guest fraser]

 

http://www.newcastle-united-supporters-club.co.uk/llambias_response.php

Response to Derek Llambias interview

 

We dont want to talk about Kevin Keegan, which is an issue they will insist on talking about. Unfortunately, thats not what the tone is.

Unfortunately this statement, above all, demonstrates how out of touch Derek Llambias and the entire Mike Ashley regime are with what it is fans are asking for.

Kevin Keegan, although forever a legend at this club, is past history. Our rather more pressing concern is to establish how Mike Ashley intends to drive the club forward and reinforce how the fans of NUFC can and need to be a significant part of it, going forward.

 

I'm sorry but that bit does not stack up to everything which NUSC has publically stood for since day one.

 

They want Ashley out, pure and simply there has been no 'we want to establish how he intends to take the club forward.

 

The rest of the response seems prety measured though, and is an improvement on past statements.

 

They've made a pretty obvious shift towards that IMO, before this latest statement.

 

Agreed.

 

People need to understand the dynamics of how the origingal catalyst (setting up NUSC to as a protest against Ashley primarily), slowly but surely turns into a more well rounded and considered approach. It is the very nature of all protest movemets, sooner or later you're having coffee with the people who you started out protesting against etc...

 

Having listened to the meeting they quite clearly remain a one-issue protest group, everything else they supposedly do it simply window dressing designed to allow them to pass themselves off as a genuine supporters' group.

 

Don't get me wrong, there's obviously some people (Tom for example) who have genuine intentions to work towards building something, but the majority of the people involved are only interested in one thing and the "leadership" appear to be mainly motivated by ego.

 

There's little to no considered thought gone into nearly everything they've done so far, they don't even know what they stand for, for f***'s sake, and they're organising a rally to promote, protest, highlight... ...erm, they're organising a rally for some reason - f*** knows why, they don't seem to.

 

It's only been running a couple of months, but I see you've already judged it.

 

Well, yeah, that's what I said, wasn't it?

 

In those few months they've shown enough for me to make a judgement on them and I judge them: s***.

 

The things that have lead me to judge them so continue and show no signs of changing: They don't know what they stand for, they're more interested in being on telly than actually helping the situation, they're arrogant beyond belief, they lack intelligence in the way they go about things, they don't learn from their mistakes, they lie, they are not open to different opinions, they have no solutions, they are unable to plan anything, they have no concept of how to communicate, they make things worse rather than better, they are charging people money (for what!?!), they are hypocrites, they claim to be a supporters' club but are clearly a single-issue protest group therefore making it less likely that a true supporters' group will develop, and so-on. Or in other words: they're s***.

 

My opinion remains open to change should they address some or all of these issues, however they show no signs of doing so, so I'm not holding my breath.

 

With a few minor changes the main paragraph of the above could equally apply to the management team at the club.

[Guest toonlass]

Get back in your own thread NE5.

 

nowt to say then ?

 

 

Just joking man, I'm pretty bored, we all know spending money improves your chances of doing well, but it's not a given, you need the right manager, the right scouts and the right amount of money but you can do well without spending massive amount if you have the right manager e.g. Moyes and Everton.

 

on the other hand, if you are lucky enough to get a decent manager, and it IS a lottery, and don't back him, he'll be off. Like Moyes, unless Everton are taken over or it all suddenly goes tits up for him.

 

When you say "do well", how well do YOU want to do ?

 

 

 

It's a lottery getting a good manager?

 

No it's a skill, not an easy one but it is definately a skill.

 

is it now ?

 

We'll see how easily Arsenal replace Wenger and ManU replace Ferguson.

 

Or Everton replace Moyes ..........

 

 

 

Even a "good manager" isn't necessarily the "right manager", which I suppose adds credence to NE5's "lottery" theory.

 

Bit simplistic on the whole though, as usual.

 

you mean "realistic", as usual. Which also, as usual, too many people fail to grasp.

 

 

were you happy with the kinnear appointment ?

 

hey getting a good manager is a lottery right,surely theres as much chance getting a s*** one to turn out good results as there is a good one turning out bad to your thinking or maybe you are piffling again in anattempt to detect any criticism from the your beloved fred ?

 

(conversly it must work with players aswell...shevchenko,veron,woodgate at real,keane at liverpool......good players who didn't do it so surely it means it's pointless spending big as these players prove it works)

 

 

i'll stop you in your tracks........."back your manager"............what with ? where was the money going to come from......at this point you mention the debt of others and as always i mention the debt of the top 4 is different to ours as they are making money aside from those with sugar daddies where as we have consistently made losses (not a good scenario when begging to the banks with few assets left to hock). look at the other clubs who,like us have lived beyond their means,they are all cutting right back and ask yourself what liverpools or arsenals spending would be like if they missed out on the champs league for 3 or 4 years ?

 

often on here you have alluded to others having thir heads in the sand but it is clear the one one doing an ostrich is yourself in relation to the position fred left us in.

 

silly.

 

Especially when there are still people hell bent on defending Ashley to the bitter end, and I mean bitter end = relegation and with little chance of coming back.

 

Pleased for you that you still appear to write off all those european qualifications and champions league appearances and the manner in which they were achieved.

 

Still, nobody is "embarrassing us" any more, right ?

 

 

BORING !

 

we've covered the euro qualifications to death as that has little to do with the position we were in spring 2007.

 

defending ashley to the bitter end......like you defending fred ?

 

i never mentioned being embarassed by fred's utterences.

 

 

nice to see you keep your head in the sand re our position when fred left.

 

you mentioned Shepherd, not me, with a silly childish comment.

 

Yep, I will "defend" anybody who gave me the only 15 years out of 45 that tried to compete at the levels this club should always compete at, and thus gave me the best most consistent and highest league positions as a result.  As I've said before. 

 

 

 

Then you should be happy that your season ticket money is going towards paying the bills he racked up in the process.

 

The alternative is of course, only supporting the club when they are winning, as you did when the Halls and Shepherd took over [if you even did that]

 

 

Was that the Hall/Shepherd era where we were nearly relegated from the 1st division? Or the Hall/Shepherd era where we were finishing 13th in the league despite the big spending?

[indi]

 

http://www.newcastle-united-supporters-club.co.uk/llambias_response.php

Response to Derek Llambias interview

 

We dont want to talk about Kevin Keegan, which is an issue they will insist on talking about. Unfortunately, thats not what the tone is.

Unfortunately this statement, above all, demonstrates how out of touch Derek Llambias and the entire Mike Ashley regime are with what it is fans are asking for.

Kevin Keegan, although forever a legend at this club, is past history. Our rather more pressing concern is to establish how Mike Ashley intends to drive the club forward and reinforce how the fans of NUFC can and need to be a significant part of it, going forward.

 

I'm sorry but that bit does not stack up to everything which NUSC has publically stood for since day one.

 

They want Ashley out, pure and simply there has been no 'we want to establish how he intends to take the club forward.

 

The rest of the response seems prety measured though, and is an improvement on past statements.

 

They've made a pretty obvious shift towards that IMO, before this latest statement.

 

Agreed.

 

People need to understand the dynamics of how the origingal catalyst (setting up NUSC to as a protest against Ashley primarily), slowly but surely turns into a more well rounded and considered approach. It is the very nature of all protest movemets, sooner or later you're having coffee with the people who you started out protesting against etc...

 

Having listened to the meeting they quite clearly remain a one-issue protest group, everything else they supposedly do it simply window dressing designed to allow them to pass themselves off as a genuine supporters' group.

 

Don't get me wrong, there's obviously some people (Tom for example) who have genuine intentions to work towards building something, but the majority of the people involved are only interested in one thing and the "leadership" appear to be mainly motivated by ego.

 

There's little to no considered thought gone into nearly everything they've done so far, they don't even know what they stand for, for f***'s sake, and they're organising a rally to promote, protest, highlight... ...erm, they're organising a rally for some reason - f*** knows why, they don't seem to.

 

It's only been running a couple of months, but I see you've already judged it.

 

Well, yeah, that's what I said, wasn't it?

 

In those few months they've shown enough for me to make a judgement on them and I judge them: s***.

 

The things that have lead me to judge them so continue and show no signs of changing: They don't know what they stand for, they're more interested in being on telly than actually helping the situation, they're arrogant beyond belief, they lack intelligence in the way they go about things, they don't learn from their mistakes, they lie, they are not open to different opinions, they have no solutions, they are unable to plan anything, they have no concept of how to communicate, they make things worse rather than better, they are charging people money (for what!?!), they are hypocrites, they claim to be a supporters' club but are clearly a single-issue protest group therefore making it less likely that a true supporters' group will develop, and so-on. Or in other words: they're s***.

 

My opinion remains open to change should they address some or all of these issues, however they show no signs of doing so, so I'm not holding my breath.

 

With a few minor changes the main paragraph of the above could equally apply to the management team at the club.

 

If that's your opinion, you're entitled to it, but I fail to see how that would provide support for NUSC? In fact, it would simply increase the level of their hypocrisy.

 

The way I look at it, whatever side you're on in the great Ashley/Keegan debate, NUSC are still doing a shit job.

[Guest Mucky01]

I was reading some of the stuff Llambias said in these interviews, and that bit about wanting to adopt the same model as Villa in particular.

 

But he then goes on to say the Dennis Wise / manager / DoF style seperation of roles works very well.

 

Ironically, probably the main reason Lerner and MON have done so well at Villa is because there is a chairman who trusts his manager's judgement 100 percent and makes the money available, and lets the manager get on with running the club.

 

Having complications like Wise will never let that kind of situation flourish.

 

agreed Brummie, but unfortunately they’re so stupid they can’t see this and the comparison too Villa is hilarious on so many levels.

 

But unlike Lerner, Ashley was stupid enough to buy a football club without realising there was £100m+ additional debt and without any idea of how to run a football club would employ a bunch of inexperienced ‘mates’ – ooooops!

i think they mean in the way they buy younger players and look for long term value with their purchases rather than the set up of the staff.

Having “the set up of the staff” is clearly going to have a major influence on buying players. Comparing the model at Villa to NUFC is hilarious, if not offensive. How anyone can dismiss “the set up of the staff” as being irrelevant is beyond me.

They didn't say they were hoping to be an exact replica of Villa though, just that we hoped to be in their position to challenge.

I know. But with the “the set up of the staff” we have?

The same set up had Spurs up there challenging 2 years back don't forget, our problem is lack of money more than anything which the club are hoping to drag around over the next few years, we're a big club with a large income so if they do bring costs down then we should have a strong future financially, it's just going to be s*** until they manage it.

 

Kinnear won't be good enough to get us up there but realistically he won't be managing in a few years anyway.

 

We have the same set up as Spurs were challenging with 2 years ago! – WTF.

 

they may have similar job titles, but that’s where any comparison ends, they had Martin Jol, we’ve got Kinnear, etc!

 

What was it FFS said? “anyone can buy a club, but not everyone can RUN a club”. Even though I hate quoting FFS, he hit the nail on the head when you consider Ashley/Llambias/Kinnear/Wise are at the helm. Which one of those 4 has any experience in running a Premiership club? Even after the “mistakes” of the last 2 years, the penny hasn’t dropped.

 

Comparing the amount of employees and turnover at a Casino to running a EPL football club is an example of frightening naivety.

 

I've already said Kinnear won't be good enough so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there.

 

From Llambias' point of view running a football club is like running every other business, he's not involved with the football side and is there to get the income up and the costs down, nothing more.

 

I think you will find that most people buying clubs have no previous history of running a Premiership club either.

 

“I think you’ll find” that anyone with no experience of running an EPL club will get someone in with the experience necessary.

 

Anyone with the view that “running a football club is like running every other business” – should be shot.

 

Which is why they've got Wise in, someone who has been involved in football at playing and management level, perhaps he isn't qualified to give his opinion on football side of things but I'm interested in who the likes of Portsmouth, West Ham, Villa and Man City have brought in who were formally involved with other Premiership clubs, can you tell me who they brought in?

 

For the second part you don't seem to be reading what I'm telling you properly, From Llambias' point of view running a football club is like running every other business, he say himself that he has no say in what goes on on the football side and is there to run the business side...

 

“But quite honestly my position is to run the stadium side of things and the income of the club.

 

“It’s all part and parcel of my job, that’s why I was there.

 

“I don’t manage the team and don’t get involved with the team.

 

“I certainly don’t know enough about football to start telling Joe Kinnear who to put on and take off.

 

“I’m there to support and run this business for Mike.

 

“I can understand why he didn’t come and I can understand why Dennis didn’t come because they are associated with the football side of things.

 

“But for me, I run the business, we sell the pies and chips.”

 

no I’m not going to list all the CV’s of Chief Exec’s etc, to prove the point that if Llambias is left to “sell the pie & chips” and Ashley is from (and still active as his main preoccupation) the retail industry, then that leaves Wise, who to me with his inexperience and geographic location (even though he might be doing a good job to fit the criteria given by Ashley), to run the football side of the business – the management infrastructure is a farcical, if not suicidal way to run a EPL club.

 

“Which is why they've got Wise in, someone who has been involved in football at playing and management level” – oh dear! A few months at Leeds (which he bottled), how reassuring!

 

[NE5]

Get back in your own thread NE5.

 

nowt to say then ?

 

 

Just joking man, I'm pretty bored, we all know spending money improves your chances of doing well, but it's not a given, you need the right manager, the right scouts and the right amount of money but you can do well without spending massive amount if you have the right manager e.g. Moyes and Everton.

 

on the other hand, if you are lucky enough to get a decent manager, and it IS a lottery, and don't back him, he'll be off. Like Moyes, unless Everton are taken over or it all suddenly goes tits up for him.

 

When you say "do well", how well do YOU want to do ?

 

 

 

It's a lottery getting a good manager?

 

No it's a skill, not an easy one but it is definately a skill.

 

is it now ?

 

We'll see how easily Arsenal replace Wenger and ManU replace Ferguson.

 

Or Everton replace Moyes ..........

 

 

 

Even a "good manager" isn't necessarily the "right manager", which I suppose adds credence to NE5's "lottery" theory.

 

Bit simplistic on the whole though, as usual.

 

you mean "realistic", as usual. Which also, as usual, too many people fail to grasp.

 

 

were you happy with the kinnear appointment ?

 

hey getting a good manager is a lottery right,surely theres as much chance getting a s*** one to turn out good results as there is a good one turning out bad to your thinking or maybe you are piffling again in anattempt to detect any criticism from the your beloved fred ?

 

(conversly it must work with players aswell...shevchenko,veron,woodgate at real,keane at liverpool......good players who didn't do it so surely it means it's pointless spending big as these players prove it works)

 

 

i'll stop you in your tracks........."back your manager"............what with ? where was the money going to come from......at this point you mention the debt of others and as always i mention the debt of the top 4 is different to ours as they are making money aside from those with sugar daddies where as we have consistently made losses (not a good scenario when begging to the banks with few assets left to hock). look at the other clubs who,like us have lived beyond their means,they are all cutting right back and ask yourself what liverpools or arsenals spending would be like if they missed out on the champs league for 3 or 4 years ?

 

often on here you have alluded to others having thir heads in the sand but it is clear the one one doing an ostrich is yourself in relation to the position fred left us in.

 

silly.

 

Especially when there are still people hell bent on defending Ashley to the bitter end, and I mean bitter end = relegation and with little chance of coming back.

 

Pleased for you that you still appear to write off all those european qualifications and champions league appearances and the manner in which they were achieved.

 

Still, nobody is "embarrassing us" any more, right ?

 

 

BORING !

 

we've covered the euro qualifications to death as that has little to do with the position we were in spring 2007.

 

defending ashley to the bitter end......like you defending fred ?

 

i never mentioned being embarassed by fred's utterences.

 

 

nice to see you keep your head in the sand re our position when fred left.

 

you mentioned Shepherd, not me, with a silly childish comment.

 

Yep, I will "defend" anybody who gave me the only 15 years out of 45 that tried to compete at the levels this club should always compete at, and thus gave me the best most consistent and highest league positions as a result.  As I've said before. 

 

 

 

Then you should be happy that your season ticket money is going towards paying the bills he racked up in the process.

 

The alternative is of course, only supporting the club when they are winning, as you did when the Halls and Shepherd took over [if you even did that]

 

 

Was that the Hall/Shepherd era where we were nearly relegated from the 1st division? Or the Hall/Shepherd era where we were finishing 13th in the league despite the big spending?

 

nah, the Hall/Shepherd who took over a club days from bankruptcy, getting 15000 gates and couldn't be sold for 1.25m quid, that became a club filling a 52000 all seater stadium, playing in the champions league, qualifying for europe more than anybody but 4 clubs, and was valued at anything between 100m and 200m quid.

 

I am sorry you feel the need to scorn the big spending that did all of that, what a shame you would have preferred solvency and 2nd division obscurity instead of beating Barcelona and playing in the San Siro.

 

 

[Guest toonlass]

Get back in your own thread NE5.

 

nowt to say then ?

 

 

Just joking man, I'm pretty bored, we all know spending money improves your chances of doing well, but it's not a given, you need the right manager, the right scouts and the right amount of money but you can do well without spending massive amount if you have the right manager e.g. Moyes and Everton.

 

on the other hand, if you are lucky enough to get a decent manager, and it IS a lottery, and don't back him, he'll be off. Like Moyes, unless Everton are taken over or it all suddenly goes tits up for him.

 

When you say "do well", how well do YOU want to do ?

 

 

 

It's a lottery getting a good manager?

 

No it's a skill, not an easy one but it is definately a skill.

 

is it now ?

 

We'll see how easily Arsenal replace Wenger and ManU replace Ferguson.

 

Or Everton replace Moyes ..........

 

 

 

Even a "good manager" isn't necessarily the "right manager", which I suppose adds credence to NE5's "lottery" theory.

 

Bit simplistic on the whole though, as usual.

 

you mean "realistic", as usual. Which also, as usual, too many people fail to grasp.

 

 

were you happy with the kinnear appointment ?

 

hey getting a good manager is a lottery right,surely theres as much chance getting a s*** one to turn out good results as there is a good one turning out bad to your thinking or maybe you are piffling again in anattempt to detect any criticism from the your beloved fred ?

 

(conversly it must work with players aswell...shevchenko,veron,woodgate at real,keane at liverpool......good players who didn't do it so surely it means it's pointless spending big as these players prove it works)

 

 

i'll stop you in your tracks........."back your manager"............what with ? where was the money going to come from......at this point you mention the debt of others and as always i mention the debt of the top 4 is different to ours as they are making money aside from those with sugar daddies where as we have consistently made losses (not a good scenario when begging to the banks with few assets left to hock). look at the other clubs who,like us have lived beyond their means,they are all cutting right back and ask yourself what liverpools or arsenals spending would be like if they missed out on the champs league for 3 or 4 years ?

 

often on here you have alluded to others having thir heads in the sand but it is clear the one one doing an ostrich is yourself in relation to the position fred left us in.

 

silly.

 

Especially when there are still people hell bent on defending Ashley to the bitter end, and I mean bitter end = relegation and with little chance of coming back.

 

Pleased for you that you still appear to write off all those european qualifications and champions league appearances and the manner in which they were achieved.

 

Still, nobody is "embarrassing us" any more, right ?

 

 

BORING !

 

we've covered the euro qualifications to death as that has little to do with the position we were in spring 2007.

 

defending ashley to the bitter end......like you defending fred ?

 

i never mentioned being embarassed by fred's utterences.

 

 

nice to see you keep your head in the sand re our position when fred left.

 

you mentioned Shepherd, not me, with a silly childish comment.

 

Yep, I will "defend" anybody who gave me the only 15 years out of 45 that tried to compete at the levels this club should always compete at, and thus gave me the best most consistent and highest league positions as a result.  As I've said before. 

 

 

 

Then you should be happy that your season ticket money is going towards paying the bills he racked up in the process.

 

The alternative is of course, only supporting the club when they are winning, as you did when the Halls and Shepherd took over [if you even did that]

 

 

Was that the Hall/Shepherd era where we were nearly relegated from the 1st division? Or the Hall/Shepherd era where we were finishing 13th in the league despite the big spending?

 

nah, the Hall/Shepherd who took over a club days from bankruptcy, getting 15000 gates and couldn't be sold for 1.25m quid, that became a club filling a 52000 all seater stadium, playing in the champions league, qualifying for europe more than anybody but 4 clubs, and was valued at anything between 100m and 200m quid.

 

I am sorry you feel the need to scorn the big spending that did all of that, what a shame you would have preferred solvency and 2nd division obscurity instead of beating Barcelona and playing in the San Siro.

 

 

 

You really are one blinkered old man aren't you. Who said I didn't appreciate the wonderful football we have experienced, but you paint the Hall/Shepherd days with such rose-tinted spectacles. You fail to see what it has cost this club to get these things. You know I wouldn't prefer to be in the 2nd division, but a happy medium of the club not being whored out to pay for the fabulous football we saw would have been nice, do you not think? As for the £100-£200 million quid. Are you happy that Sir John Hall and Fred Shepherd pocketed over £180 million between them when this club was sold, especially since Sir John Hall stood on the steps of St James when he first bought the club and stated he wasn't in it for the money! YEAH RIGHT!

[DJ_NUFC]

Anyfive, understand that we were going to go into solvency if the fat one and his cronies had stayed around any longer, spending and paying each other astronomical salaries while getting the club into more and more debt. Who knows how the credit crunch would've affected us then?

[BottledDog]

 

“Which is why they've got Wise in, someone who has been involved in football at playing and management level” – oh dear! A few months at Leeds (which he bottled), how reassuring!

 

 

A few months, come on, it was a year and a half wasn't it.

 

He did very well as player-manager, manager, and youth development at both Millwall and Swindon as well as leeds iirc.

[TooonDoom]

My issues with Mike Ashley running Newcastle were lack of communication and a belief that he was taking money out of the club.

 

It looks like the management have realized that they need to communicate with us. 

It looks like no money is being taken out of the club.

 

I hope we can get all the negativity of the KK departure, sale of the club, demonstrations, "it is a Fact" press release, etc behind us.  I just want to have a buzz about us again. 

[binnsy]

 

Which is why they've got Wise in, someone who has been involved in football at playing and management level oh dear! A few months at Leeds (which he bottled), how reassuring!

 

 

A few months, come on, it was a year and a half wasn't it.

 

He did very well as player-manager, manager, and youth development at both Millwall and Swindon as well as leeds iirc.

 

How much are we actually paying Wise as a director of football, is it something daft like £2m per year?  Thing i found most strange was Llambias description of what Dennis Wise does because what he described was basically a chief scout!!!!!!  No club in the world pays anyone £2m per year for a chief scout.  He wasn't with Kinnear, Ashley and Llambias last week at the training ground for the laughable attempt to make a breakthru in the transfer market so once he finds players he mustn't do the negoiating on the deals.  Which again just points to him being a scout not a DOF.  Why in his role of Director of Football as he not looked to replace our reserve team coach, Adam Sadler was given the boot along with KK and Terry Mac and the club have left Richard Money looking after both the reserve team and the academy. 

Just another sign of the mismanagement and poor running of this football club by the current regime.

[BottledDog]

 

“Which is why they've got Wise in, someone who has been involved in football at playing and management level” – oh dear! A few months at Leeds (which he bottled), how reassuring!

 

 

A few months, come on, it was a year and a half wasn't it.

 

He did very well as player-manager, manager, and youth development at both Millwall and Swindon as well as leeds iirc.

 

How much are we actually paying Wise as a director of football, is it something daft like £2m per year?  Thing i found most strange was Llambias description of what Dennis Wise does because what he described was basically a chief scout!!!!!!   No club in the world pays anyone £2m per year for a chief scout.  He wasn't with Kinnear, Ashley and Llambias last week at the training ground for the laughable attempt to make a breakthru in the transfer market so once he finds players he mustn't do the negoiating on the deals.  Which again just points to him being a scout not a DOF.  Why in his role of Director of Football as he not looked to replace our reserve team coach, Adam Sadler was given the boot along with KK and Terry Mac and the club have left Richard Money looking after both the reserve team and the academy. 

Just another sign of the mismanagement and poor running of this football club by the current regime.

 

 

£2 million? I have no idea whether this is true (the only figure I have seen was 1.2 million or something but who the ferk knows) but I would doubt it. What amount of money would you be happy with? I don't like people taking big salaries but I guess it's par for the course at any club.

 

I think your second point has been cleared up. Llambias said specifically today that Wise (while having some role finding and recomending players) does indeed also do the negotiating, all Ashley and Llambias do at that stage is say yes or no when he pushes them for more money.

 

As to Wise' role in appointing coaches, I dunno. Surely if anyone was to appoint coaches for the academy it would be Joe Joyce as academy director. Otherwise, while Money seems the main man, the youth and reserve personel seem pretty fluid. Calderwood took the reserve match this week to check out the seniors coming back probably, but what is Whartons role?

[binnsy]

 

Which is why they've got Wise in, someone who has been involved in football at playing and management level oh dear! A few months at Leeds (which he bottled), how reassuring!

 

 

A few months, come on, it was a year and a half wasn't it.

 

He did very well as player-manager, manager, and youth development at both Millwall and Swindon as well as leeds iirc.

 

How much are we actually paying Wise as a director of football, is it something daft like £2m per year?  Thing i found most strange was Llambias description of what Dennis Wise does because what he described was basically a chief scout!!!!!!   No club in the world pays anyone £2m per year for a chief scout.  He wasn't with Kinnear, Ashley and Llambias last week at the training ground for the laughable attempt to make a breakthru in the transfer market so once he finds players he mustn't do the negoiating on the deals.  Which again just points to him being a scout not a DOF.  Why in his role of Director of Football as he not looked to replace our reserve team coach, Adam Sadler was given the boot along with KK and Terry Mac and the club have left Richard Money looking after both the reserve team and the academy. 

Just another sign of the mismanagement and poor running of this football club by the current regime.

 

Llambias said specifically today that Wise (while having some role finding and recomending players) does indeed also do the negotiating, all Ashley and Llambias do at that stage is say yes or no when he pushes them for more money.

 

As for the £2 million, I have no idea whether this is true (the only figure I have seen was 1.2 million or something but who the ferk knows) but I would doubt it. What amount of money would you be happy with?

 

And Wise' role in appointing coaches, I dunno. Surely if anyone was to appoint coaches for the academy it would be Joe Joyce as academy director. Otherwise, while Money seems the main man, the youth and reserve personel seem pretty fluid. Calderwood took the reserve match this week to check out the seniors coming back probably, but what is Whartons role?

 

Wharton is one of the Academy coaches, under 18's i think.  ,  Money came in as the director of football, not even sure if Joyce is still at the club, he wasn't involved in the youth cup games, so if he's with the academy he's working with the younger kids, maybe under 16's or even younger but since Sadler went Money has been running the academy and taking the reserve games.  Calderwood stepped in to take the reserve game but it was because Money was on a scouting trip not because they were checking the seniors coming back.  JFK and Hughton watch every reserve home game anyway.

[NE5]

Get back in your own thread NE5.

 

nowt to say then ?

 

 

Just joking man, I'm pretty bored, we all know spending money improves your chances of doing well, but it's not a given, you need the right manager, the right scouts and the right amount of money but you can do well without spending massive amount if you have the right manager e.g. Moyes and Everton.

 

on the other hand, if you are lucky enough to get a decent manager, and it IS a lottery, and don't back him, he'll be off. Like Moyes, unless Everton are taken over or it all suddenly goes tits up for him.

 

When you say "do well", how well do YOU want to do ?

 

 

 

It's a lottery getting a good manager?

 

No it's a skill, not an easy one but it is definately a skill.

 

is it now ?

 

We'll see how easily Arsenal replace Wenger and ManU replace Ferguson.

 

Or Everton replace Moyes ..........

 

 

 

Even a "good manager" isn't necessarily the "right manager", which I suppose adds credence to NE5's "lottery" theory.

 

Bit simplistic on the whole though, as usual.

 

you mean "realistic", as usual. Which also, as usual, too many people fail to grasp.

 

 

were you happy with the kinnear appointment ?

 

hey getting a good manager is a lottery right,surely theres as much chance getting a s*** one to turn out good results as there is a good one turning out bad to your thinking or maybe you are piffling again in anattempt to detect any criticism from the your beloved fred ?

 

(conversly it must work with players aswell...shevchenko,veron,woodgate at real,keane at liverpool......good players who didn't do it so surely it means it's pointless spending big as these players prove it works)

 

 

i'll stop you in your tracks........."back your manager"............what with ? where was the money going to come from......at this point you mention the debt of others and as always i mention the debt of the top 4 is different to ours as they are making money aside from those with sugar daddies where as we have consistently made losses (not a good scenario when begging to the banks with few assets left to hock). look at the other clubs who,like us have lived beyond their means,they are all cutting right back and ask yourself what liverpools or arsenals spending would be like if they missed out on the champs league for 3 or 4 years ?

 

often on here you have alluded to others having thir heads in the sand but it is clear the one one doing an ostrich is yourself in relation to the position fred left us in.

 

silly.

 

Especially when there are still people hell bent on defending Ashley to the bitter end, and I mean bitter end = relegation and with little chance of coming back.

 

Pleased for you that you still appear to write off all those european qualifications and champions league appearances and the manner in which they were achieved.

 

Still, nobody is "embarrassing us" any more, right ?

 

 

BORING !

 

we've covered the euro qualifications to death as that has little to do with the position we were in spring 2007.

 

defending ashley to the bitter end......like you defending fred ?

 

i never mentioned being embarassed by fred's utterences.

 

 

nice to see you keep your head in the sand re our position when fred left.

 

you mentioned Shepherd, not me, with a silly childish comment.

 

Yep, I will "defend" anybody who gave me the only 15 years out of 45 that tried to compete at the levels this club should always compete at, and thus gave me the best most consistent and highest league positions as a result.  As I've said before. 

 

 

 

Then you should be happy that your season ticket money is going towards paying the bills he racked up in the process.

 

The alternative is of course, only supporting the club when they are winning, as you did when the Halls and Shepherd took over [if you even did that]

 

 

Was that the Hall/Shepherd era where we were nearly relegated from the 1st division? Or the Hall/Shepherd era where we were finishing 13th in the league despite the big spending?

 

nah, the Hall/Shepherd who took over a club days from bankruptcy, getting 15000 gates and couldn't be sold for 1.25m quid, that became a club filling a 52000 all seater stadium, playing in the champions league, qualifying for europe more than anybody but 4 clubs, and was valued at anything between 100m and 200m quid.

 

I am sorry you feel the need to scorn the big spending that did all of that, what a shame you would have preferred solvency and 2nd division obscurity instead of beating Barcelona and playing in the San Siro.

 

 

 

You really are one blinkered old man aren't you. Who said I didn't appreciate the wonderful football we have experienced, but you paint the Hall/Shepherd days with such rose-tinted spectacles. You fail to see what it has cost this club to get these things. You know I wouldn't prefer to be in the 2nd division, but a happy medium of the club not being whored out to pay for the fabulous football we saw would have been nice, do you not think? As for the £100-£200 million quid. Are you happy that Sir John Hall and Fred Shepherd pocketed over £180 million between them when this club was sold, especially since Sir John Hall stood on the steps of St James when he first bought the club and stated he wasn't in it for the money! YEAH RIGHT!

 

oh dear. Resorting to insults. How old are you ? I'm not old you daft bugger, and I'm in good health too. If you don't want to listen to others who have seen things [without meaning to sound patronising] then you really do have a serious problem, and are talking like a naive teenager.

 

I don't believe you saw the mediocrity of the 1970's and 1980's if you think the souness, Roeder and Allardyce league positions were mediocre league positions.

 

Sorry like, but I don't. I believed you at first but your own comments have gave me the impression I now have.

 

I have no idea what makes you think I am happy with money going out of the club. All I have said is that the Halls and Shepherd are by far the best owners we have had in 50 years, in fact, the ONLY good owners in that time. To that extent, they deserved something, for the job they did and the initial risks they took, taking over the club in the state it was in.

 

And don't compare the state of the club in 1991 to now, because believe me, it was miles apart.

 

 

[Guest toonlass]

Get back in your own thread NE5.

 

nowt to say then ?

 

 

Just joking man, I'm pretty bored, we all know spending money improves your chances of doing well, but it's not a given, you need the right manager, the right scouts and the right amount of money but you can do well without spending massive amount if you have the right manager e.g. Moyes and Everton.

 

on the other hand, if you are lucky enough to get a decent manager, and it IS a lottery, and don't back him, he'll be off. Like Moyes, unless Everton are taken over or it all suddenly goes tits up for him.

 

When you say "do well", how well do YOU want to do ?

 

 

 

It's a lottery getting a good manager?

 

No it's a skill, not an easy one but it is definately a skill.

 

is it now ?

 

We'll see how easily Arsenal replace Wenger and ManU replace Ferguson.

 

Or Everton replace Moyes ..........

 

 

 

Even a "good manager" isn't necessarily the "right manager", which I suppose adds credence to NE5's "lottery" theory.

 

Bit simplistic on the whole though, as usual.

 

you mean "realistic", as usual. Which also, as usual, too many people fail to grasp.

 

 

were you happy with the kinnear appointment ?

 

hey getting a good manager is a lottery right,surely theres as much chance getting a s*** one to turn out good results as there is a good one turning out bad to your thinking or maybe you are piffling again in anattempt to detect any criticism from the your beloved fred ?

 

(conversly it must work with players aswell...shevchenko,veron,woodgate at real,keane at liverpool......good players who didn't do it so surely it means it's pointless spending big as these players prove it works)

 

 

i'll stop you in your tracks........."back your manager"............what with ? where was the money going to come from......at this point you mention the debt of others and as always i mention the debt of the top 4 is different to ours as they are making money aside from those with sugar daddies where as we have consistently made losses (not a good scenario when begging to the banks with few assets left to hock). look at the other clubs who,like us have lived beyond their means,they are all cutting right back and ask yourself what liverpools or arsenals spending would be like if they missed out on the champs league for 3 or 4 years ?

 

often on here you have alluded to others having thir heads in the sand but it is clear the one one doing an ostrich is yourself in relation to the position fred left us in.

 

silly.

 

Especially when there are still people hell bent on defending Ashley to the bitter end, and I mean bitter end = relegation and with little chance of coming back.

 

Pleased for you that you still appear to write off all those european qualifications and champions league appearances and the manner in which they were achieved.

 

Still, nobody is "embarrassing us" any more, right ?

 

 

BORING !

 

we've covered the euro qualifications to death as that has little to do with the position we were in spring 2007.

 

defending ashley to the bitter end......like you defending fred ?

 

i never mentioned being embarassed by fred's utterences.

 

 

nice to see you keep your head in the sand re our position when fred left.

 

you mentioned Shepherd, not me, with a silly childish comment.

 

Yep, I will "defend" anybody who gave me the only 15 years out of 45 that tried to compete at the levels this club should always compete at, and thus gave me the best most consistent and highest league positions as a result.  As I've said before. 

 

 

 

Then you should be happy that your season ticket money is going towards paying the bills he racked up in the process.

 

The alternative is of course, only supporting the club when they are winning, as you did when the Halls and Shepherd took over [if you even did that]

 

 

Was that the Hall/Shepherd era where we were nearly relegated from the 1st division? Or the Hall/Shepherd era where we were finishing 13th in the league despite the big spending?

 

nah, the Hall/Shepherd who took over a club days from bankruptcy, getting 15000 gates and couldn't be sold for 1.25m quid, that became a club filling a 52000 all seater stadium, playing in the champions league, qualifying for europe more than anybody but 4 clubs, and was valued at anything between 100m and 200m quid.

 

I am sorry you feel the need to scorn the big spending that did all of that, what a shame you would have preferred solvency and 2nd division obscurity instead of beating Barcelona and playing in the San Siro.

 

 

 

You really are one blinkered old man aren't you. Who said I didn't appreciate the wonderful football we have experienced, but you paint the Hall/Shepherd days with such rose-tinted spectacles. You fail to see what it has cost this club to get these things. You know I wouldn't prefer to be in the 2nd division, but a happy medium of the club not being whored out to pay for the fabulous football we saw would have been nice, do you not think? As for the £100-£200 million quid. Are you happy that Sir John Hall and Fred Shepherd pocketed over £180 million between them when this club was sold, especially since Sir John Hall stood on the steps of St James when he first bought the club and stated he wasn't in it for the money! YEAH RIGHT!

 

oh dear. Resorting to insults. How old are you ? I'm not old you daft bugger, and I'm in good health too. If you don't want to listen to others who have seen things [without meaning to sound patronising] then you really do have a serious problem, and are talking like a naive teenager.

 

I don't believe you saw the mediocrity of the 1970's and 1980's if you think the souness, Roeder and Allardyce league positions were mediocre league positions.

 

Sorry like, but I don't. I believed you at first but your own comments have gave me the impression I now have.

 

I have already said I didn't see the football in the 1970's and have a damn good reason why not. I wasn't born until the 1970's. You can believe what you like doesn't bother me in the slightest.

[Dr Venkman]

Get back in your own thread NE5.

 

nowt to say then ?

 

 

Just joking man, I'm pretty bored, we all know spending money improves your chances of doing well, but it's not a given, you need the right manager, the right scouts and the right amount of money but you can do well without spending massive amount if you have the right manager e.g. Moyes and Everton.

 

on the other hand, if you are lucky enough to get a decent manager, and it IS a lottery, and don't back him, he'll be off. Like Moyes, unless Everton are taken over or it all suddenly goes tits up for him.

 

When you say "do well", how well do YOU want to do ?

 

 

 

It's a lottery getting a good manager?

 

No it's a skill, not an easy one but it is definately a skill.

 

is it now ?

 

We'll see how easily Arsenal replace Wenger and ManU replace Ferguson.

 

Or Everton replace Moyes ..........

 

 

 

Even a "good manager" isn't necessarily the "right manager", which I suppose adds credence to NE5's "lottery" theory.

 

Bit simplistic on the whole though, as usual.

 

you mean "realistic", as usual. Which also, as usual, too many people fail to grasp.

 

 

were you happy with the kinnear appointment ?

 

hey getting a good manager is a lottery right,surely theres as much chance getting a s*** one to turn out good results as there is a good one turning out bad to your thinking or maybe you are piffling again in anattempt to detect any criticism from the your beloved fred ?

 

(conversly it must work with players aswell...shevchenko,veron,woodgate at real,keane at liverpool......good players who didn't do it so surely it means it's pointless spending big as these players prove it works)

 

 

i'll stop you in your tracks........."back your manager"............what with ? where was the money going to come from......at this point you mention the debt of others and as always i mention the debt of the top 4 is different to ours as they are making money aside from those with sugar daddies where as we have consistently made losses (not a good scenario when begging to the banks with few assets left to hock). look at the other clubs who,like us have lived beyond their means,they are all cutting right back and ask yourself what liverpools or arsenals spending would be like if they missed out on the champs league for 3 or 4 years ?

 

often on here you have alluded to others having thir heads in the sand but it is clear the one one doing an ostrich is yourself in relation to the position fred left us in.

 

silly.

 

Especially when there are still people hell bent on defending Ashley to the bitter end, and I mean bitter end = relegation and with little chance of coming back.

 

Pleased for you that you still appear to write off all those european qualifications and champions league appearances and the manner in which they were achieved.

 

Still, nobody is "embarrassing us" any more, right ?

 

 

BORING !

 

we've covered the euro qualifications to death as that has little to do with the position we were in spring 2007.

 

defending ashley to the bitter end......like you defending fred ?

 

i never mentioned being embarassed by fred's utterences.

 

 

nice to see you keep your head in the sand re our position when fred left.

 

you mentioned Shepherd, not me, with a silly childish comment.

 

Yep, I will "defend" anybody who gave me the only 15 years out of 45 that tried to compete at the levels this club should always compete at, and thus gave me the best most consistent and highest league positions as a result.  As I've said before. 

 

 

 

Then you should be happy that your season ticket money is going towards paying the bills he racked up in the process.

 

The alternative is of course, only supporting the club when they are winning, as you did when the Halls and Shepherd took over [if you even did that]

 

 

Was that the Hall/Shepherd era where we were nearly relegated from the 1st division? Or the Hall/Shepherd era where we were finishing 13th in the league despite the big spending?

 

nah, the Hall/Shepherd who took over a club days from bankruptcy, getting 15000 gates and couldn't be sold for 1.25m quid, that became a club filling a 52000 all seater stadium, playing in the champions league, qualifying for europe more than anybody but 4 clubs, and was valued at anything between 100m and 200m quid.

 

I am sorry you feel the need to scorn the big spending that did all of that, what a shame you would have preferred solvency and 2nd division obscurity instead of beating Barcelona and playing in the San Siro.

 

 

 

You really are one blinkered old man aren't you. Who said I didn't appreciate the wonderful football we have experienced, but you paint the Hall/Shepherd days with such rose-tinted spectacles. You fail to see what it has cost this club to get these things. You know I wouldn't prefer to be in the 2nd division, but a happy medium of the club not being whored out to pay for the fabulous football we saw would have been nice, do you not think? As for the £100-£200 million quid. Are you happy that Sir John Hall and Fred Shepherd pocketed over £180 million between them when this club was sold, especially since Sir John Hall stood on the steps of St James when he first bought the club and stated he wasn't in it for the money! YEAH RIGHT!

 

oh dear. Resorting to insults. How old are you ? I'm not old you daft bugger, and I'm in good health too. If you don't want to listen to others who have seen things [without meaning to sound patronising] then you really do have a serious problem, and are talking like a naive teenager.

 

I don't believe you saw the mediocrity of the 1970's and 1980's if you think the souness, Roeder and Allardyce league positions were mediocre league positions.

 

Sorry like, but I don't. I believed you at first but your own comments have gave me the impression I now have.

 

I have no idea what makes you think I am happy with money going out of the club. All I have said is that the Halls and Shepherd are by far the best owners we have had in 50 years, in fact, the ONLY good owners in that time. To that extent, they deserved something, for the job they did and the initial risks they took, taking over the club in the state it was in.

 

And don't compare the state of the club in 1991 to now, because believe me, it was miles apart.

 

 

 

but we're in the same league position now as we were when shepherd left, so its not the league positions you care about? but how much money we spend? seems weird.