Aston Villa

[Guest quklaani]

Villa are (well, maybe were) a sleeping giant.  Always good to see a club like that pushing Chelsea down. 

 

A simple formula to explain why I'd rather have Villa challenging us for honours than Chelsea.

 

http://www.avfc.premiumtv.co.uk/javaImages/dd/9/0,,10265~592349,00.jpg > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00697/sport-graphics-2008_697781a.jpg

Big Club                                              "Big man"

 

[thewellander]

I've often said that Villa are the team that give me most hope that we can someday push ahead. They've made all the right moves. Every team in England should be looking to emulate what they've done.

 

I would love to see them in the Champions League next year, but mostly I would love to see MON here. I can dream.

[mrmojorisin75]

Villa are (well, maybe were) a sleeping giant.  Always good to see a club like that pushing Chelsea down. 

 

A simple formula to explain why I'd rather have Villa challenging us for honours than Chelsea.

 

http://www.avfc.premiumtv.co.uk/javaImages/dd/9/0,,10265~592349,00.jpg > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00697/sport-graphics-2008_697781a.jpg

Big Club                                               "Big man"

 

 

isn't that rationale that the number of big clubs is fixed for time immemorial, or is your problem that Abramovich took your toys away for a few seasons and you didn't like it? 

 

what are you referencing as "big club"?  existent fan base or historical trophy haul?  or both?  should no-one else have ambition unless they've got >40,000 fans a week already, what exactly are you saying?

 

closed shop to you either way?  what about if citeh take the title off you for a few years...same, no

[nobby_solano]

yeah glad to see villa doing well, good chairman/owner, good manager, nice fans, playing entertaining football the right way.

let's hope they gatecrash the champions league places, and we do the same soon

[merlin]

Always had a soft spot for them, they always used to try to play good football.

Have made my views about MON clear on the Title Chances thread, and believe they have a decent chance of breaking the Top 4 monopoly, if not this year, then next.

They have improved every year under O'Neill, and I expect that to continue because with more cash to spend, he will find the players who can be that vital difference when teams try to shut up shop against them.

 

If we had not fired SBR in such a shoddy way, I am convinced MON would have joined NUFC if asked, but he was wise to steer clear of Shepherd...

If that had happened, we may well have been where they are now, but to be fair, he inherited some better young players than we had at NUFC.

I wish them well, they have run the club properly, and Lerner must also take a bow for letting MON get on with it - unlike our chubby owner...

[Guest pistonism]

Im glad it's not spurs up there...

 

Agreed.

[sturla]

Really like Villa's style, fast and fun football.  Hope they break the dominance of the top 4.  To think that I could be us.  If only Shepheard would have stuck with Bobby through the season like originally planed.  O'Neill would have been tempted to succeed him in the summer.  Instead we appointed fucking Souness and the downward spiral began.

[TêteDeMaure]

Whilst i like to see Villa up where they are, it baffles me how they are there. This is a team that were extremely lucky to beat Sunderland and West Brom. They even got beat off Boro at home and Newcastle ffs.

 

I think there's only been 2 occasions i've watched and thought wow and that was against Arsenal, but Hull were pretty tremendous there aswell, and at home to Arsenal when they probs should have won in the end.

 

They were utter shite at SJP, and i don't need to remind anyone on here just how shite we are. They only beat the Mackems because of Milners clear handballed goal.

 

They've also got a hard run of games to come themselves, think Arsenal and Chelsea will see them out.

 

Never met an Arsehole Villa fan, so i do wish them luck, they certainly fall into my definition of a big club.

[Neil]

I hope that if Villa do secure a top 4 place, that they manage to build upon it. They are not in a position where we were 4 years ago where we clearly were nowhere near ready for the CL (albeit robbed by Mr Collina). I don't know in detail about their finances but I'd guess they have more money than us as well. If they can continue to build sustainably, keep the squad together in the summer and a couple of quality players, maybe a quality central midfielder to complement Barry, then there's no reason why they can't be near the top of the league for years to come.

 

And also there is some bitterness, that could well be us if we hadn't had f***ed up the start to our season, because iirc it's something like 2 defeats in our last 19 games in all competitions. I do feel they've had an awful lot of luck and haven't impressed as regularly as their position would make out, but what the hell, good to see them up there. Liverpool and Chelsea could fall into the 2 aforementioned categories.

 

 

[Guest firetotheworks]

Im pleased for Villa. They have strong pacey players with a lot of desire to do well. You can see in the way they play that a lot of the performances are to do with confidence and self belief. I hope they kick on from this next season and try and strengthen. They do remind me a lot of us under bobby as it goes. Being quality whilst hinting at a future of being top drawer.

[Guest guinness_fiend]

Unfortunately, whilst I am pleased for Villa, Martin O'Neill has one of those faces that would look infinitely better with a lead pipe wrapped around it.

 

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00381/Martin_O_Neill_381430a.jpg

 

[Incognito]

Villa have rode their luck but so have Liverpool,Man United and others...They are a team more suited to playing away from home with their counter attacking style,Uefa Cup football suits their style more than CL imo,but who knows who the terrific O'Neiil will buy in the summer if they do finish in the top 4.Good luck to them i say.

[Dokko]

Think Villa have been the most unambitious shitbag of a club the premiership has ever seen...until Randy & MON came aboard.

 

Never like the club, found it dull, boring and pointless, just a non entity.

 

Totally different story now. Young, pacey, English and fighting above their expectations, taking chances on players and working to a plan. Credit where its due, and Villa have my backing to go on and win something and be the 5th best team and beyond.

 

Glad they have the other clubs fans backing to take on the top 4 as they are doing it with style and professionalism (just like we were doing so many moons ago)

[Guest quklaani]

Villa are (well, maybe were) a sleeping giant.  Always good to see a club like that pushing Chelsea down. 

 

A simple formula to explain why I'd rather have Villa challenging us for honours than Chelsea.

 

http://www.avfc.premiumtv.co.uk/javaImages/dd/9/0,,10265~592349,00.jpg > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00697/sport-graphics-2008_697781a.jpg

Big Club                                               "Big man"

 

 

isn't that rationale that the number of big clubs is fixed for time immemorial, or is your problem that Abramovich took your toys away for a few seasons and you didn't like it? 

 

what are you referencing as "big club"?  existent fan base or historical trophy haul?  or both?  should no-one else have ambition unless they've got >40,000 fans a week already, what exactly are you saying?

 

closed shop to you either way?  what about if citeh take the title off you for a few years...same, no

 

You become a big club by earning it through hard work and success over a long period of time.  Teams don't wake up one day able to fill an 80,000 seat stadium, it requires a natural progression that keeps football fair.  There's nothing inherent to Manchester United that makes it a "big club," we earned it, twice over.  Obviously we're helped by being from a major city, and there are only a couple dozen teams that could ever hope to attract enough support to be a "big club."  But isn't that how it should be?  Are you suggesting that people from Berwick-upon-Tweed (pop: 25,949 ) should feel put out that they'll never have a championship winning football club?  In this modern age of only vaguely local teams, isn't the size of the local community a pretty fair determiner for potential success?

 

It seems to me that you just take issue with my dislike for Chelsea considering I support a football club which is also massively rich, even though the money comes from utterly different sources.  Well I'm sorry I think that teams should build towards their achievements instead of buying them with money that has nothing to do with their club.*  You apparently don't have a problem with this.  So I ask you, what's the limit?  What if someone buys Sunderland and spends 300 million making them champions?  What about Bristol City?  What about Yeovil? Port Vale?  Kidderminster Harriers? Forest Green? Harrogate Town?

 

I'm serious, at what point does it stop being acceptable for a club to be pumped full of millions that isn't theirs?  Not only do I dislike this from a selfish perspective, but it's also damaging to the clubs involved.  Developing success over time isn't just to my mind fair, its also the only way clubs can be sustainable.  Chelsea pre-Roman weren't exactly a nothing team to be fair, they were regularly amongst the top teams and were making an impact in Europe.  They were a decent club, most people liked them (probably because of Zola.)  When Roman goes he'll have left the club with two league titles and an impossible debt.  Chelsea will likely go the way of Leeds United.  Putting aside my hatred for the Abramovich era, I think I'll find that to be incredibly sad.  And what will be the legacy of the club?  Not more love for them or a memory of a great side (although the 04-05 team were a great side,) but ever more unsustainable wages for the rest of us.

 

I want my team to be challenged and of course beaten (I'd never want our league to be like France) by teams which have built to be sustainable.  Last year was briefly brilliant because it was Arsenal v United again.  This year it's a three way between us, Villa and Liverpool.  I love that (despite my utter terror at the thought of Liverpool winning the title again, but I won't pretend my hatred there is rational) and I miss the 90s and early 00s title races between us, Leeds, Newcastle, Arsenal, Villa and a Chelsea with a soul.

 

*I suppose it's worth considering where all of Villa's money is coming from, but really they've not spent much more than they will have earnt through ticket sales and TV rights.  I imagine that Lerner's biggest contribution has been to free them of financial worry, hence their ability to make that wonderful gesture to Acorns hospice.

[mrmojorisin75]

Villa are (well, maybe were) a sleeping giant.  Always good to see a club like that pushing Chelsea down. 

 

A simple formula to explain why I'd rather have Villa challenging us for honours than Chelsea.

 

http://www.avfc.premiumtv.co.uk/javaImages/dd/9/0,,10265~592349,00.jpg > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00697/sport-graphics-2008_697781a.jpg

Big Club                                               "Big man"

 

 

isn't that rationale that the number of big clubs is fixed for time immemorial, or is your problem that Abramovich took your toys away for a few seasons and you didn't like it? 

 

what are you referencing as "big club"?  existent fan base or historical trophy haul?  or both?  should no-one else have ambition unless they've got >40,000 fans a week already, what exactly are you saying?

 

closed shop to you either way?  what about if citeh take the title off you for a few years...same, no

 

You become a big club by earning it through hard work and success over a long period of time.  Teams don't wake up one day able to fill an 80,000 seat stadium, it requires a natural progression that keeps football fair.  There's nothing inherent to Manchester United that makes it a "big club," we earned it, twice over.  Obviously we're helped by being from a major city, and there are only a couple dozen teams that could ever hope to attract enough support to be a "big club."  But isn't that how it should be?  Are you suggesting that people from Berwick-upon-Tweed (pop: 25,949 ) should feel put out that they'll never have a championship winning football club?  In this modern age of only vaguely local teams, isn't the size of the local community a pretty fair determiner for potential success?

 

It seems to me that you just take issue with my dislike for Chelsea considering I support a football club which is also massively rich, even though the money comes from utterly different sources.  Well I'm sorry I think that teams should build towards their achievements instead of buying them with money that has nothing to do with their club.*  You apparently don't have a problem with this.  So I ask you, what's the limit?  What if someone buys Sunderland and spends 300 million making them champions?  What about Bristol City?  What about Yeovil? Port Vale?  Kidderminster Harriers? Forest Green? Harrogate Town?

 

I'm serious, at what point does it stop being acceptable for a club to be pumped full of millions that isn't theirs?  Not only do I dislike this from a selfish perspective, but it's also damaging to the clubs involved.  Developing success over time isn't just to my mind fair, its also the only way clubs can be sustainable.  Chelsea pre-Roman weren't exactly a nothing team to be fair, they were regularly amongst the top teams and were making an impact in Europe.  They were a decent club, most people liked them (probably because of Zola.)  When Roman goes he'll have left the club with two league titles and an impossible debt.  Chelsea will likely go the way of Leeds United.  Putting aside my hatred for the Abramovich era, I think I'll find that to be incredibly sad.  And what will be the legacy of the club?  Not more love for them or a memory of a great side (although the 04-05 team were a great side,) but ever more unsustainable wages for the rest of us.

 

I want my team to be challenged and of course beaten (I'd never want our league to be like France) by teams which have built to be sustainable.  Last year was briefly brilliant because it was Arsenal v United again.  This year it's a three way between us, Villa and Liverpool.  I love that (despite my utter terror at the thought of Liverpool winning the title again, but I won't pretend my hatred there is rational) and I miss the 90s and early 00s title races between us, Leeds, Newcastle, Arsenal, Villa and a Chelsea with a soul.

 

*I suppose it's worth considering where all of Villa's money is coming from, but really they've not spent much more than they will have earnt through ticket sales and TV rights.  I imagine that Lerner's biggest contribution has been to free them of financial worry, hence their ability to make that wonderful gesture to Acorns hospice.

 

long post so can't be arsed to address it all but talking of money that isn't yours, man u is owned by americans who took out loans to buy the club...you refer to what will happen when abramovich leaves chelski well what might happen when fergie eventually packs in and you have downturn in fortunes on the pitch (which history tells us is likely will happen)? 

 

as for the time and earning it factor fair enough in a sense but what should they have done, not aim as high as possible so not to earn it too fast...drip feed themselves success 'til it was acceptable to the other big clubs and they were allowed to join?

 

you make some really good points and i agree with some of them but i hate, HATE the snobbery people have about money, it boils my piss...whether it's borrowed from banks like ours was, and some of yours is, or arab oil money or russian oil money it's still money and that's that

 

good luck to anyone who makes inroads into this pisspot of a league i say, couldn't give a fuck...hope man city buy the league as well next season, at least it'll mix things up a bit and get taggarts face a deeper shade of purple when he complains they bought it

[Rob W]

It's very interesting that even the THREAT of not finishing top 4 has got three clubs in turmoil (mad Sir Alex is too canny to panic)

 

just shows how they've built their business plans

 

If Everton keep climbing then maybe TWO of them will be in the s*** - maybe not even in the YUFA

[Guest quklaani]

man u is owned by americans who took out loans to buy the club...you refer to what will happen when abramovich leaves chelski well what might happen when fergie eventually packs in and you have downturn in fortunes on the pitch (which history tells us is likely will happen)?

 

We'll probably be completely fucked.

 

Again this relates to the concern I've been pointing out.  The League really don't give a flying fuck who buys the clubs, I mean the Glazer's business model entirely consisted of "ok, we don't have any money to buy the club, so what we'll do is we'll buy it with magic pretend money and then fuck the fans senseless to pay for it."  How exactly did the league not have a problem with this?  Christ, people point out that this is a relatively normal way of doing business, but in no other area could you increase prices threefold and expect to retain your customers because of "brand loyalty."

 

To be allowed to buy a premier league club you should have to be able to prove that you know what you're doing, that you have a clear and fiscally responsible plan, and that you can create a sustainable future for the club which is beneficial both to fans and to the league as a whole.  The "fit and proper person" test shouldn't be the ethical equivalent of a primary school spelling test.  People like Randy Lerner and Niall Quinn shouldn't be held as some great illuminating beacon for football owners, they should be the goddamn standard.  The fans should be at the centre of every decision the league makes, because while its true that each and every club runs a monopoly on their product (you can't get Newcastle United anywhere else) their "consumers" can only be pushed so hard financially before they'll lose interest.  It's getting increasingly hard to avoid the conclusion that the Premier League's bubble is going to burst sooner rather than later, and it'll do so in spectacular fashion.

[Parky]

It's very interesting that even the THREAT of not finishing top 4 has got three clubs in turmoil (mad Sir Alex is too canny to panic)

 

just shows how they've built their business plans

 

If Everton keep climbing then maybe TWO of them will be in the s*** - maybe not even in the YUFA

 

I've been waiting for this. One of the 4 is in for a shock come June hopefully. I thought last year it might be Arsenal - I was a year ahead as usual.

[afar]

I'm not too fond of Villa, never have been and never will be. However you've just got to admire what they have done over the last couple of seasons.

 

They certainly lucked out with their owner and how they got Martin O'Neill to join them when they were in the position they were is still something I find hard to believable.

 

They've spent extremely well and have assembled an excellent squad in a short space of time. I'll be extremely surprised if they don't now make the Champions League. Good luck to them.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Good post Brummie, I'd love to see Villa win the league, but as Robster said Man Utd are just too strong. I think 2nd can't be ruled out though and do hope yous get a CL spot, ahead of Chelsea, now that would be funny.

 

Man United are far, far stronger than us, there's no chance whatsoever of us winning the league.

 

I honestly don't think Liverpool are much better than us (people talk about us riding our luck, but Liverpool have ridden theirs far more). Where Liverpool have the edge is that they - collectively and individually - have the experience which we don't.

 

Top four - anywhere in it - and I'll be delighted. Fifth and I'll be very happy. Sixth, and I'll still be relatively happy, but will reflect on what might have been.

 

A little under 2.5 years ago we had DOL, Doug Ellis, finished 16th and were staring at absolutely certain relegation. Lerner and O'Neill have worked miracles to change things so quickly.

 

I agree, for me Liverpool are workman like who rely heavily on the absolute world-class performers that are Gerrad and Torres, otherwise they'd be more Everton than what they currently are. They are a very good side don't get me wrong, very strong, but they lack genuine class across the park and on the bench like Man Utd, Chelsea and even Arsenal who for me are going through an identity crisis kind thing more than anything else. When I asked whether Villa could adapt their game for me Arsenal simply haven't and don't look capable of any time soon which is in the most part the reason why they aren't competing like they used to. Liverpool have adapted their game to some extent while Chelsea were trying to under Scolari and Man Utd, well they are the masters of it and one of the reasons why they never really budge.

 

Regarding where you finish, I'm of the opinion you strike while the iron is hot. Yes sometimes teams can overachieve where it soon catches up with them (we were such victims ourselves), where perhaps Champions League football if you're a Villa or Premier League football if you're a promotion hopeful, could come a year too soon, but that's where a good manager, team and board earn their stripes - adjusting quickly and succeeding. If not... well you'll have some great nights like we did. Worry about whether CL footy could come a season too early when that actually becomes an issue. You never know, it could actually be the real turning point where Villa just go from strength to strength and become a fully paid up member of the top 4. I say that because one of them is due a long fall from grace and for me Arsenal are in the thick of the shit. Chelsea can always buy themselves out of it while Liverpool under Rafa will always be ultra competitive.

[Parky]

Good post Brummie, I'd love to see Villa win the league, but as Robster said Man Utd are just too strong. I think 2nd can't be ruled out though and do hope yous get a CL spot, ahead of Chelsea, now that would be funny.

 

Man United are far, far stronger than us, there's no chance whatsoever of us winning the league.

 

I honestly don't think Liverpool are much better than us (people talk about us riding our luck, but Liverpool have ridden theirs far more). Where Liverpool have the edge is that they - collectively and individually - have the experience which we don't.

 

Top four - anywhere in it - and I'll be delighted. Fifth and I'll be very happy. Sixth, and I'll still be relatively happy, but will reflect on what might have been.

 

A little under 2.5 years ago we had DOL, Doug Ellis, finished 16th and were staring at absolutely certain relegation. Lerner and O'Neill have worked miracles to change things so quickly.

 

I agree, for me Liverpool are workman like who rely heavily on the absolute world-class performers that are Gerrad and Torres, otherwise they'd be more Everton than what they currently are. They are a very good side don't get me wrong, very strong, but they lack genuine class across the park and on the bench like Man Utd, Chelsea and even Arsenal who for me are going through an identity crisis kind thing more than anything else. When I asked whether Villa could adapt their game for me Arsenal simply haven't and don't look capable of any time soon which is in the most part the reason why they aren't competing like they used to. Liverpool have adapted their game to some extent while Chelsea were trying to under Scolari and Man Utd, well they are the masters of it and one of the reasons why they never really budge.

 

Regarding where you finish, I'm of the opinion you strike while the iron is hot. Yes sometimes teams can overachieve where it soon catches up with them (we were such victims ourselves), where perhaps Champions League football if you're a Villa or Premier League football if you're a promotion hopeful, could come a year too soon, but that's where a good manager, team and board earn their stripes - adjusting quickly and succeeding. If not... well you'll have some great nights like we did. Worry about whether CL footy could come a season too early when that actually becomes an issue. You never know, it could actually be the real turning point where Villa just go from strength to strength and become a fully paid up member of the top 4. I say that because one of them is due a long fall from grace and for me Arsenal are in the thick of the shit. Chelsea can always buy themselves out of it while Liverpool under Rafa will always be ultra competitive.

 

I think it will be Arsenal.

 

Not sure Arseshaving is the ans either.

[ChezGiven]

It's very interesting that even the THREAT of not finishing top 4 has got three clubs in turmoil (mad Sir Alex is too canny to panic)

 

just shows how they've built their business plans

 

If Everton keep climbing then maybe TWO of them will be in the s*** - maybe not even in the YUFA

 

I've been waiting for this. One of the 4 is in for a shock come June hopefully. I thought last year it might be Arsenal - I was a year ahead as usual.

 

 

You're so far ahead of your time you should be a Philip K. Dick novel. 

[Carlito]

I've always viewed them as somewhat of a bogey team for us ever since Sir. Bobby was sacked. Seems to be one thing after another when we play them, but I am quite pleased to see them up there giving it a go rather than the top four being the same as usual.

[Kanj]

While im happy there is another club challenging, I can't help but me completely jelous of their success.

 

That being said, we beat that lot at St. James' and Oba was sublime, so as of right now. I am okay with Villa!

[Mistle17]

I'm very jealous of Villa atm, but at the same time happy to see them doing well. In fairness to them they've been in the doldrums for way too long, and its about time they had their moment in the sun. We had ours......although I can see them staying at/near the top longer than we did.

 

Villa and Man City have been two teams I've had soft spots for in recent seasons, but I fucking hate Man City now. Bunch of Chelsea wannabe cunts!

Villa have spent a fair chunk of money to get where they are but City have probably spent more this January window than they have in 2 seasons.Crazy.

 

If I could see 1 team drop out of the top 4 it'd have to be Liverpool- jammy cunts- that'd be hilarious! Closely followed by Chelsea.