Lies and half truths

[Liam Liam Liam O]

 

"I'm physically AOK"

Joe Kinnear 22/11/2008

 

Joe Kinnear was admitted to hospital on Saturday morning."

NUFC 07/02/2009

 

 

f***ing lying b****** eh.

 

Yes, it's like me saying it's freezing outside and you coming back in May and calling me a liar because it's warm and sunny at that time.

 

NE5 would just put it in his signature complete with one of these.  mackems.gif

[Happy Face]

"We did the typical due diligence one would do on a public takeover. There is no sense that anyone has tried to mislead us"

Chris Mort 10/08/2007

 

 

"We inherited so much, It's like buying a car on HP but then it gets written off, but you still have to pay it.  That's how the business was being run, they ran it on a credit.  We're knocking down walls and rebuilding.  We are trying to get away from dating so that we don't have huge amounts of money going out. We are trying to pay up front."

Derek Llambias 10/02/2009

 

If anyone has a quote where they say there was more debt than they expected I'd love to see it.  I know Shepherd has claimed they didn't do due diligence, has anyone in the club?

 

Until then I can't say he's lying, just passing the buck despite everything having been made clear according to Mort, the man involved from the get go.

 

Found it....

 

“We first heard about the potential sale on a Saturday and had done the deal by the Wednesday, so if you are asking if we did due diligence before buying then the answer has to be no."

Mike Ashley 12/08/2008

 

Can you clear up exactly what your point is?

 

 

either:

 

They went into this with their eyes wide open as initially claimed but rather than turn it around in any way after 2 years in charge, they have still managed to increase the cost of running the club by over £14M (see the latest submitted accounts). This being the case shouldn't they share the blame?

 

Or the original story was created to maintain a facade of professionalism, which crumbled under the enormity of the debt which has revealed the truth, in which case you have to seriously question the wisdom of the purchase in the first place, as well as wonder what other skeletons are in the closet.

 

[Happy Face]

 

"I'm physically AOK"

Joe Kinnear 22/11/2008

 

“Joe Kinnear was admitted to hospital on Saturday morning."

NUFC 07/02/2009

 

 

f***ing lying b****** eh.

 

Yes, it's like me saying it's freezing outside and you coming back in May and calling me a liar because it's warm and sunny at that time.

 

NE5 would just put it in his signature complete with one of these.  mackems.gif

 

I posted this elsewhere, but got no response.  Just to repeat...

 

I originally came up with that one as a bit of black humour.  It never rains but it pours for NUFC.  I do believe that it raises a valid point (however small) of concern about the professionality of those in charge though.

 

As an aged manager at Newcastle, Bobby Robson would have regular health checks and impart the results to the fans, constantly reassuring us he was still as much of a full shilling as he'd ever been (about 4p  ).

 

To have complained of feeling a bit unwell on the Saturday and undergone bypass surgery within less than a week, I've assumed that Kinnear was not being monitored in the same way or his condition would have been flagged.  I don't know if Kinnear was purposely avoiding such checks and misleading his employer, I don't know if his employer took him on without requiring regular checks, I don't know for certain if such checks would have identified the problem.  But as he gave his breathless answers, pausing after every 3 words yet still unable to expurgate himself enough in interviews to avoid FA charges, and given his history, I worried about about his state of health long before the West Brom game.

 

Did his employers?

 

[Liam Liam Liam O]

 

"I'm physically AOK"

Joe Kinnear 22/11/2008

 

Joe Kinnear was admitted to hospital on Saturday morning."

NUFC 07/02/2009

 

 

f***ing lying b****** eh.

 

Yes, it's like me saying it's freezing outside and you coming back in May and calling me a liar because it's warm and sunny at that time.

 

NE5 would just put it in his signature complete with one of these.  mackems.gif

 

I posted this elsewhere, but got no response.  Just to repeat...

 

I originally came up with that one as a bit of black humour.  It never rains but it pours for NUFC.  I do believe that it raises a valid point (however small) of concern about the professionality of those in charge though.

 

As an aged manager at Newcastle, Bobby Robson would have regular health checks and impart the results to the fans, constantly reassuring us he was still as much of a full shilling as he'd ever been (about 4p  ).

 

To have complained of feeling a bit unwell on the Saturday and undergone bypass surgery within less than a week, I've assumed that Kinnear was not being monitored in the same way or his condition would have been flagged.  I don't know if Kinnear was purposely avoiding such checks and misleading his employer, I don't know if his employer took him on without requiring regular checks, I don't know for certain if such checks would have identified the problem.  But as he gave his breathless answers, pausing after every 3 words yet still unable to expurgate himself enough in interviews to avoid FA charges, and given his history, I worried about about his state of health long before the West Brom game.

 

Did his employers?

 

 

You'll be accusing them of force feeding him a fry up at the breakfast table on Saturday morning next.

[Mick]

 

 

either:

 

They went into this with their eyes wide open as initially claimed but rather than turn it around in any way after 2 years in charge, they have still managed to increase the cost of running the club by over £14M (see the latest submitted accounts). This being the case shouldn't they share the blame?

 

Or the original story was created to maintain a facade of professionalism, which crumbled under the enormity of the debt which has revealed the truth, in which case you have to seriously question the wisdom of the purchase in the first place, as well as wonder what other skeletons are in the closet.

 

 

The debt has been mentioned from almost day 1 so option 2 looks less likely and yes they should share some blame for the debts.  A very small share and they claim to be able to stop the losses in roughly 18 months time.  By then, Ashley will have put in another £30 million if he does no more than pay our debts.

[Mick]

 

I posted this elsewhere, but got no response.  Just to repeat...

 

I originally came up with that one as a bit of black humour.  It never rains but it pours for NUFC.  I do believe that it raises a valid point (however small) of concern about the professionality of those in charge though.

 

As an aged manager at Newcastle, Bobby Robson would have regular health checks and impart the results to the fans, constantly reassuring us he was still as much of a full shilling as he'd ever been (about 4p  ).

 

To have complained of feeling a bit unwell on the Saturday and undergone bypass surgery within less than a week, I've assumed that Kinnear was not being monitored in the same way or his condition would have been flagged.  I don't know if Kinnear was purposely avoiding such checks and misleading his employer, I don't know if his employer took him on without requiring regular checks, I don't know for certain if such checks would have identified the problem.  But as he gave his breathless answers, pausing after every 3 words yet still unable to expurgate himself enough in interviews to avoid FA charges, and given his history, I worried about about his state of health long before the West Brom game.

 

Did his employers?

 

 

My dad had a bypass many years after having a heart attack and he was well monitored after having his heart attack.  He had the bypass after suddenly feeling ill, none of the tests he had between the two made any difference until they put a camera into an artery in his groin which was fed up to his heart.

 

The angiogram is reasonably safe but not something which is done as a routine.

 

[Happy Face]

For those that don't see any contradictions, I've put a bit of context around these quotes here....

 

http://nufc-ashlies.blogspot.com/

 

Feel free to comment, correct, critisise, condemn or congratulate.

[Parky]

For those that don't see any contradictions, I've put a bit of context around these quotes here....

 

http://nufc-ashlies.blogspot.com/

 

Feel free to comment, correct, critisise, condemn or congratulate.

 

I find it harder to read with the black background and white and blue text.

[Happy Face]

For those that don't see any contradictions, I've put a bit of context around these quotes here....

 

http://nufc-ashlies.blogspot.com/

 

Feel free to comment, correct, critisise, condemn or congratulate.

 

I find it harder to read with the black background and white and blue text.

 

I thought Black and white was crucial.  But had the same feeling, I'll have a look at the other templates. 

[Happy Face]

 

 

either:

 

They went into this with their eyes wide open as initially claimed but rather than turn it around in any way after 2 years in charge, they have still managed to increase the cost of running the club by over £14M (see the latest submitted accounts). This being the case shouldn't they share the blame?

 

Or the original story was created to maintain a facade of professionalism, which crumbled under the enormity of the debt which has revealed the truth, in which case you have to seriously question the wisdom of the purchase in the first place, as well as wonder what other skeletons are in the closet.

 

 

The debt has been mentioned from almost day 1 so option 2 looks less likely and yes they should share some blame for the debts.  A very small share and they claim to be able to stop the losses in roughly 18 months time.  By then, Ashley will have put in another £30 million if he does no more than pay our debts.

 

According to NUFC-finances, the club only lost money in one of the last four years Shepherd was in charge.

 

http://www.football-finances.org.uk/newcastle/profit2.gif

 

 

[Mowen]

Does that take into account player trading?

[madras]

 

 

either:

 

They went into this with their eyes wide open as initially claimed but rather than turn it around in any way after 2 years in charge, they have still managed to increase the cost of running the club by over £14M (see the latest submitted accounts). This being the case shouldn't they share the blame?

 

Or the original story was created to maintain a facade of professionalism, which crumbled under the enormity of the debt which has revealed the truth, in which case you have to seriously question the wisdom of the purchase in the first place, as well as wonder what other skeletons are in the closet.

 

 

The debt has been mentioned from almost day 1 so option 2 looks less likely and yes they should share some blame for the debts.  A very small share and they claim to be able to stop the losses in roughly 18 months time.  By then, Ashley will have put in another £30 million if he does no more than pay our debts.

 

According to NUFC-finances, the club only lost money in one of the last four years Shepherd was in charge.

 

http://www.football-finances.org.uk/newcastle/profit2.gif

 

 

or managed to not run at a loss in 3 of the last 7.

 

 

 

all perspective i suppose

[BottledDog]

Does that take into account player trading?

 

Yes, but what Happy Face has chosen not to relay is that they were not profits that stayed in the club as that graph doesn't take into account dividends paid out.

 

"In the 9 years the club has been a PLC,  a profit after dividends has been made only twice. In those two years the profit was £200,000, in the 7 other years the losses have totalled £62m."

 

http://www.football-finances.org.uk/newcastle/profit5.gif

[Happy Face]

Does that take into account player trading?

 

Yes, but what Happy Face has chosen not to relay is that they were not profits that stayed in the club as that graph doesn't take into account dividends paid out.

 

"In the 9 years the club has been a PLC,  a profit after dividends has been made only twice. In those two years the profit was £200,000, in the 7 other years the losses have totalled £62m."

 

It wasn't intended as an approval of the previous owners who I gave plenty of shit for the money they took out of the club.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Does that take into account player trading?

 

Yes, but what Happy Face has chosen not to relay is that they were not profits that stayed in the club as that graph doesn't take into account dividends paid out.

 

"In the 9 years the club has been a PLC,  a profit after dividends has been made only twice. In those two years the profit was £200,000, in the 7 other years the losses have totalled £62m."

 

It wasn't intended as an approval of the previous owners who I gave plenty of shit for the money they took out of the club.

 

So you were just throwing in a 'half truth' then?

[Happy Face]

Does that take into account player trading?

 

Yes, but what Happy Face has chosen not to relay is that they were not profits that stayed in the club as that graph doesn't take into account dividends paid out.

 

"In the 9 years the club has been a PLC,  a profit after dividends has been made only twice. In those two years the profit was £200,000, in the 7 other years the losses have totalled £62m."

 

It wasn't intended as an approval of the previous owners who I gave plenty of shit for the money they took out of the club.

 

So you were just throwing in a 'half truth' then?

 

Not at all.

 

There are no dividends being paid at the club now.

 

Without dividends, the previous owners pretty much able to run the club within it's means while spending enough on talented players to stay competetive by staggering debt repayments.  However they chose to reward themselves massive payments which was a disgrace.

 

Without dividends, the current owners are running at a massive loss because they insist on paying off debt immediately, even if it means no investment in players.

 

 

[Parky]

Does that take into account player trading?

 

Yes, but what Happy Face has chosen not to relay is that they were not profits that stayed in the club as that graph doesn't take into account dividends paid out.

 

"In the 9 years the club has been a PLC,  a profit after dividends has been made only twice. In those two years the profit was £200,000, in the 7 other years the losses have totalled £62m."

 

It wasn't intended as an approval of the previous owners who I gave plenty of shit for the money they took out of the club.

 

So you were just throwing in a 'half truth' then?

 

Not at all.

 

There are no dividends being paid at the club now.

 

Without dividends, the previous owners pretty much able to run the club within it's means while spending enough on talented players to stay competetive by staggering debt repayments.  However they chose to reward themselves massive payments which was a disgrace.

 

Without dividends, the current owners are running at a massive loss because they insist on paying off debt immediately, even if it means no investment in players.

 

 

 

A common ploy for a selling balance sheet.

 

Wake up people.

[Guest The Toon Army from farawa]

The debts still there but now it's with Ashley. Any money made now will be used to pay this off and into his pocket. This could also be why the clubs supposed to be making a loss.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

The debts still there but now it's with Ashley. Any money made now will be used to pay this off and into his pocket. This could also be why the clubs supposed to be making a loss.

 

Seeing how Ashley has legally signed a confirmation that he won't call in the loan within a 12 month period this won't happen in the short term

[Guest fading star]

The debts still there but now it's with Ashley. Any money made now will be used to pay this off and into his pocket. This could also be why the clubs supposed to be making a loss.

 

Seeing how Ashley has legally signed a confirmation that he won't call in the loan within a 12 month period this won't happen in the short term

All fairly meaningless when the creditor and the debtor is the same person.

[TRon]

The debts still there but now it's with Ashley. Any money made now will be used to pay this off and into his pocket. This could also be why the clubs supposed to be making a loss.

 

If it was that easy to milk money from the club why was John Hall looking to sell for so long before Ashley's arrival? Both Hall and Shepherd's family had their fingers in the pie, why would they want to get out?

 

 

[Happy Face]

The debts still there but now it's with Ashley. Any money made now will be used to pay this off and into his pocket. This could also be why the clubs supposed to be making a loss.

 

If it was that easy to milk money from the club why was John Hall looking to sell for so long before Ashley's arrival? Both Hall and Shepherd's family had their fingers in the pie, why would they want to get out?

 

The Halls made £10m in December 1998 by selling 6.3% of the club to the cable company NTL, and made more than £20m from share sales before Ashley paid £55.34m for their remaining stake. Freddy Shepherd did not want to sell, but Ashley's purchase of the Halls' stake effectively forced him to; Ashley paid the Shepherds £38m for their 28% stake.

 

altogether Hall was paid £5.37m as a Newcastle director, Shepherd £4.7m.

 

the club paid £1.6m to rent warehouse space and houses from Bruce Shepherd's company, SMP Services. In 2007, Newcastle paid £82,000 to Triple S Sports Consultancy, a company run by Freddy Shepherd's son, Kenny, who rented office space in St James' Park.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/11/newcastle-united-freddy-shepherd-john-hall

 

So basically the Shepherds were making a lot more out of the club than the halls by the time Ashley bought it.  Stands to reason that Hall was happy to sell and Shepherd less so, even though both were making money from the club.

 

It would have taken John hall decades to earn as much from his salary as selling up put in his palm of his hand overnight.

[OzzieMandias]

We would also like to emphasise that this is not a protest

 

http://www.newcastle-united-supporters-club.co.uk/events.php

 

Hundreds of football fans packed Newcastle city centre for a protest rally against the club's owners.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/tyne/7904698.stm

 

 

[Happy Face]

http://nufc-ashlies.blogspot.com/2009/02/communication-breakdown.html

[Happy Face]

Ryder on the Payroll?

I've highlighted Lee Ryder's bias in previous posts, but his coverage of Shearer's arrival this week has been so pro-Ashley as to be comedic.

 

To be clear, I think the appointment of Shearer is an excellent move.  Late in the day though it's come, at least it's a positive change that can only improve our chances in the remaining seven games.  For this reason I've avoided pointing out the disparity in Kinnear's thoughts...

 

“Whatever happens, I will have an input. If I can't do certain things, I will be speaking to players and working at the training ground.”

 

which we heard even as Sky Sports News had already removed the "unconfirmed" bit of their story about the new manager, and days after Shearer had spent the weekend talking with the owner and Managing Director about taking over.   Whether it was just the left hand not talking to the right, or a brag made while fully aware he was being marginalised wasn't important because Kinnear is yesterday's man (hopefully), and dwelling on his utterances no longer tells us anything about the improvements happening at the club.

 

But, the response to our potential relegation we've seen (and encourage) in no way excuses the shambolic efforts that have gone on behind the scenes this season, which left us on the brink in the first place.  Lee Ryder of The Chronicle likes to think it does though, his reporting this week has been nothing but a glowing testimony for the people who got us here.  One blog marks Ashley as a shrewd man with a long line of clever decisions behind him...

 

"Another Wise move from Mike Ashley?"

 

Sorry , who got Wise the sack?  Mike Ashley has stood steadfastly alongside the poison dwarf for over a year as everyone inside and outside the club told him it wasn’t a workable “system”, and even if it was, an odious individual like Wise wasn’t the man for the role.

 

Even in the article that follows that ridiculous title, Ryder states that Wise going was part of the deal that saw Al arrive.  Isn't it Shearer then, that deserves the credit for such a wise move?  After all, we can only assume Wise would still be in a job if Shearer had turned down Ashley’s offer unconditionally.

 

Personally, I’ve read more into the circumstances of Wise’s departure.  It tells me that although Shearer will work for them, he doesn’t trust those in charge as far as he could throw them. 

 

In his press conference Shearer told us he accepted the job on Monday.  Sky Sports ran it as a confirmed story on Tuesday, but it wasn’t until Wednesday night that the club confirmed it.  Why?

 

I think it’s clear that Shearer would not take their word for it that Wise would be sacked.  He wanted a press release that stated Wise was out and that there would no longer be such a role at the club BEFORE he would allow them to confirm his appointment publicly.  He eventually got that announcement, and his arrival was then confirmed within an hour.  Shearer knows how these people work and isn’t going to fall into the same trap that Keegan did.

 

Ryder didn’t stop there though...

 

"Shearer's return will keep Michael Owen on board."

 

How can anyone know that?  Is Owen going to stay with us if we’re in the Championship?  I’d have thought Keegan being in charge of a team that was now safe would be more attractive?  Llambias insists Kinnear will be manager next year, so logically nothing’s changed in terms of Owen's contract decision.

 

"How many Ashley crictics will change their tune now Shearer has agreed to join up?  His arrival should save Newcastle and while Ashley and Derek Llambias have been battered from pillar to post - where does it leave your feelings on the controverisal duo now?"

 

I think it’ll just be the people you can convince Lee.  Ignoring the fact that you don't spell check your work, there’s only so much Shearer can do with the poor squad he has, built by the system Ashley sanctioned. 

 

To claim we’re now saved, and can look forward to Premier league football is the kind of sales pitch that Ashley himself would make.  They’re the kind of statements intended to sell season tickets rather than being the informed opinion of a sports reporter worth his salt.

 

Despite acknowledging, that Shearer was the man who ended Wise's time at the club, he's now started printing retrospective articles claiming it's all been part of the plan

 

"The Chronicle understands Wise had barely spoken with Ashley and managing-director Derek Llambias since before January, with Joe Kinnear assuming a recruitment role during the transfer window."

 

 

Lee didn't seem to think it was the case in January though when he wrote this story about Wise negotiating contracts with Butt and Ameobi.  And Joe Kinnear thought Wise was running the show during the window when he said

 

“As far as I am concerned I am going to keep every single player we have got that I think can contribute to keeping us up in the Premiership.  I'm not going to weaken my chances. The fact is I'm looking to add to the squad. It's as simple as that. I have explained seriousness of situation to Mike Ashley.  That’s in Dennis Wise's quarters. He is the one wheeling and dealing, He is the one selling them.  We’re trying to get funds back in and he is aware of the players I want. We are talking to a lot of clubs.”

 

This confuses me on so many levels.  He's now suggesting Wise has had no involvement for three months, and had no involvement throughout the entire transfer window.  If we ignore what's been said before and take the retrospective story as the truth (Ray Ryan at the Express did run the story at the time) then our top local journalist either didn't know, or didn't see fit to tell us?  But that's neither here nor there, because if it's true, then whoever messed up the January transfer window so fantastically is still at the club.  Which suggests the celebratory tone Ryder adopts in reporting Wise's departure after a "disastrous" time would seem excessive for a man who wielded little power within the club.  Most shockingly when he relates an event that occured many moons ago, that he chose not to at the time.

 

"I stood outside St James’s Park some months after Keegan’s departure and watched as a fan told Wise what he thought of the situation.  Wise’s laughing-cavalier response to the young Geordie, just yards away from where KK explained to fans why he had sold Andy Cole in 1995, summed up why the ex-Chelsea man was never the right fit for a people’s club like Newcastle United."

 

Lee wants to lay the blame for all the clubs ills squarely at the feet of Dennis Wise, but whichever way you slice it, Wise was only part of the problem.

 

http://nufc-ashlies.blogspot.com/