Wise going in Summer? NOTW Tomorrow

[Parky]

I can see JFK as DoF

 

Shittest DOF on the planet?

[Parky]

Aye, get rid of the scape goat. Ignore his good works.

 

Agree.

 

If Wise / his team is responsible for all the random youth signings that we've made, then I'm more than happy to have him on board.

 

Tis a big IF mind you.

 

FM 08 innit.

[Guest Darth Toon]

Aye, get rid of the scape goat. Ignore his good works.

 

Agree.

 

If Wise / his team is responsible for all the random youth signings that we've made, then I'm more than happy to have him on board.

 

Tis a big IF mind you.

 

Regardless of whether you think he's had a hand in getting a couple of decent players into the club, there's little doubt in my mind that his continued presence is counter-productive. Besides, if the club didn't want him to be a scapegoat they could have spoken out in his defence long before now - a little bit of positive PR could have gone a long way. Clarifying his role would have been a start.

 

Most clubs seem to be moving away from the DOF structure now, surely with good reason, but if we must have one then there must be better out there than Dennis Wise. Wonder if any of our rivals will be moving in to snap him up once his services become available?

[Parky]

Aye, get rid of the scape goat. Ignore his good works.

 

Agree.

 

If Wise / his team is responsible for all the random youth signings that we've made, then I'm more than happy to have him on board.

 

Tis a big IF mind you.

 

Regardless of whether you think he's had a hand in getting a couple of decent players into the club, there's little doubt in my mind that his continued presence is counter-productive. Besides, if the club didn't want him to be a scapegoat they could have spoken out in his defence long before now - a little bit of positive PR could have gone a long way. Clarifying his role would have been a start.

 

Most clubs seem to be moving away from the DOF structure now, surely with good reason, but if we must have one then there must be better out there than Dennis Wise. Wonder if any of our rivals will be moving in to snap him up once his services become available?

 

Doesn't work in the English game.

[Mistle17]

Its very simple- just get rid of the system completely!! Very straight forward.

 

Look at Arsenal, they can unearth all these fantastic youth players because they have probably the best scouting network in the world. Not because they have a DOF.

[Mick]

The only problem I have with a DOF is who he reports to, it should be the manager not the MD.

[Parky]

The only problem I have with a DOF is who he reports to, it should be the manager not the MD.

 

Agreed.

[Tooj]

The only problem I have with a DOF is who he reports to, it should be the manager not the MD.

 

Exactly. I don't remember any problem at all when Gordon Milne was here.

[Mick]

I don't see why a DoF can't report to the manager, the Chairman or MD would still have the final say on how much is spent in the way that he does now and the manager would feel that he had full control of who comes and goes.

 

Having the DoF report directly to the MD means the manager will always feel as if he hasn't got control, even if he has because of a suspicion as to who makes decisions.  We’ve created a problem which was totally unnecessary and if Wise is leaving then now would be the time to put it right. 

 

[Parky]

Cheif scout ftw.

[Mick]

Cheif scout ftw.

 

Yes, it's the same thing but I'm not bothered about job titles, I suppose DoF gives the job more status.

[Guest johnson293]

From the Beeb today...

 

Coventry City's executive chairman Ray Ranson has emerged as a strong candidate for the chief executive roles at Liverpool and Newcastle United. (Daily Mail)

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-1158369/CHARLES-SALE-Premier-League-pair-paying-Ranson.html

 

Ray Ranson, the footballer turned businessman who transformed the finances of Coventry City, has emerged as a strong candidate for the chief executive roles at both Liverpool and Newcastle.

 

Liverpool are searching for a replacement for Rick Parry who leaves at the end of the season, while Newcastle are expected to re-structure their club management operation this summer.

 

Ranson's name has already been mooted at Anfield and St James' Park after his extraordinary success as executive chairman at Championship club Coventry, who had debts of nearly £40million when the former Manchester City player led a consortium takeover in December 2007.

   

Since then Ranson has transformed the set-up at Coventry to the extent that the club are operating without a bank overdraft and have a promising young team under manager Chris Coleman.

 

Ranson, also well known for developing the Pro-Zone tactics aid, said: 'It's flattering that other clubs are taking an interest in what we're doing at Coventry, but there's a long way to go.'

 

Still remember when he scaled the fences at the leazes end after scoring a consolation against QPR in 1989 - the way he celebrated you'd think he'd just completed his hattrick!!   

[NJS]

I think its about responsiblity - if Wise had the title of "executive director (football)" and reports to the board then the football results have to come down to him - not Keegan or Kinnear - that's what those job definitions are all about in the "real" world.

 

I don't see how in that context his position is tenable - especially if we are relegated.

 

 

[Dave]

The Ray Ranson and Leeds affair. *shudder*

[SEMTEX]

Aye, get rid of the scape goat. Ignore his good works.

 

Agree.

 

If Wise / his team is responsible for all the random youth signings that we've made, then I'm more than happy to have him on board.

 

Tis a big IF mind you.

 

Do you know how good they are btw?

 

Nope.

 

Time will tell.

 

It's more effort than we've ever made to sign youth though.

[Tooj]

Aye, get rid of the scape goat. Ignore his good works.

 

Agree.

 

If Wise / his team is responsible for all the random youth signings that we've made, then I'm more than happy to have him on board.

 

Tis a big IF mind you.

 

Do you know how good they are btw?

 

Nope.

 

Time will tell.

 

It's more effort than we've ever made to sign youth though.

 

I agree. However Big Sam had started to do this and Roeder had made noises about also going out there and trying to build up the academy and the scouting network as everyone knew it was rotten to the core. So I don't know how you can say you're happy to have him on board when we don't actually know anything about the quality of players being brought in. What I'm interested in what our scouting system is now like, how many scouts do we have looking at each market, what about the development of these players? It's ok signing them, but we've been a graveyard for young talent for years now, so this needs to be looked into as well.

[SEMTEX]

Aye, get rid of the scape goat. Ignore his good works.

 

Agree.

 

If Wise / his team is responsible for all the random youth signings that we've made, then I'm more than happy to have him on board.

 

Tis a big IF mind you.

 

Do you know how good they are btw?

 

Nope.

 

Time will tell.

 

It's more effort than we've ever made to sign youth though.

 

I agree. However Big Sam had started to do this and Roeder had made noises about also going out there and trying to build up the academy and the scouting network as everyone knew it was rotten to the core. So I don't know how you can say you're happy to have him on board when we don't actually know anything about the quality of players being brought in. What I'm interested in what our scouting system is now like, how many scouts do we have looking at each market, what about the development of these players? It's ok signing them, but we've been a graveyard for young talent for years now, so this needs to be looked into as well.

 

Aye I'd love to know ALOT more about the whole set up, but we don't. But I think this is the same for all the assumptions about how Wise is this massive disruption, cos there is no proof of that either. People just hate on him cos he's an impish cockney twat.

[Guest Heneage]

Aye, get rid of the scape goat. Ignore his good works.

 

Much like you're ignorning the lack of ability to strengthen the squad where it is needed. Then again I can't really say that as I'm not exactly sure what his role is like many others.

 

And I've said time and time again, how do you know his work is good? You won't know that until some of the young lads have had chance to develop in a couple of years time.

 

It's not Wise's fault he's not the Owner, his job is finding the players which he has in my opinion, Bassong alone has justified his fee, Colocinni has looked "Ok" Business, as has Jonas and Guthrie. We've had lots of young talent coming through the doors, ignroing how good Kadars been in my opinion he's doing everything you expect from a good DOF.

[Tooj]

Aye, get rid of the scape goat. Ignore his good works.

 

Much like you're ignorning the lack of ability to strengthen the squad where it is needed. Then again I can't really say that as I'm not exactly sure what his role is like many others.

 

And I've said time and time again, how do you know his work is good? You won't know that until some of the young lads have had chance to develop in a couple of years time.

 

It's not Wise's fault he's not the Owner, his job is finding the players which he has in my opinion, Bassong alone has justified his fee, Colocinni has looked "Ok" Business, as has Jonas and Guthrie. We've had lots of young talent coming through the doors, ignroing how good Kadars been in my opinion he's doing everything you expect from a good DOF.

 

So are you going to completly ignore the gaping holes in the squad then?

 

Read my post above to Dan B, it's more than scouting the talent, it needs developing as well. And you can't say he's doing everything you expect from a good DOF as you don't actually know what his role is.

[Guest Heneage]

Aye, get rid of the scape goat. Ignore his good works.

 

Much like you're ignorning the lack of ability to strengthen the squad where it is needed. Then again I can't really say that as I'm not exactly sure what his role is like many others.

 

And I've said time and time again, how do you know his work is good? You won't know that until some of the young lads have had chance to develop in a couple of years time.

 

It's not Wise's fault he's not the Owner, his job is finding the players which he has in my opinion, Bassong alone has justified his fee, Colocinni has looked "Ok" Business, as has Jonas and Guthrie. We've had lots of young talent coming through the doors, ignroing how good Kadars been in my opinion he's doing everything you expect from a good DOF.

 

So are you going to completly ignore the gaping holes in the squad then?

 

Read my post above to Dan B, it's more than scouting the talent, it needs developing as well. And you can't say he's doing everything you expect from a good DOF as you don't actually know what his role is.

 

As I said, what do you want him to do? Ashley lets the money go not him, we saw all the players we were linked with in January, Donadel, Ebondo, Veloso, Etc. If the club can't negotiate a price be that because they are being cheap, or players are being over-valued so be it. The phrase "You can lead a horse to water.." springs to mind.

[Tooj]

Aye, get rid of the scape goat. Ignore his good works.

 

Much like you're ignorning the lack of ability to strengthen the squad where it is needed. Then again I can't really say that as I'm not exactly sure what his role is like many others.

 

And I've said time and time again, how do you know his work is good? You won't know that until some of the young lads have had chance to develop in a couple of years time.

 

It's not Wise's fault he's not the Owner, his job is finding the players which he has in my opinion, Bassong alone has justified his fee, Colocinni has looked "Ok" Business, as has Jonas and Guthrie. We've had lots of young talent coming through the doors, ignroing how good Kadars been in my opinion he's doing everything you expect from a good DOF.

 

So are you going to completly ignore the gaping holes in the squad then?

 

Read my post above to Dan B, it's more than scouting the talent, it needs developing as well. And you can't say he's doing everything you expect from a good DOF as you don't actually know what his role is.

 

As I said, what do you want him to do? Ashley lets the money go not him, we saw all the players we were linked with in January, Donadel, Ebondo, Veloso, Etc. If the club can't negotiate a price be that because they are being cheap, or players are being over-valued so be it. The phrase "You can lead a horse to water.." springs to mind.

 

But then surely should he not work within his budget and try and get players that are actually attainable?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Problem is, DOF is not a well-defined role anyway... I guess there will be many people with that title who do very different things day-to-day.

 

I just think in modern football it is too much for a manager to be expected to run every aspect of the football club. The manager should be in charge of first-team matters, I agree.

 

The biggest potential benefit to the DOF system I think is long-term stability. Rather than every manager coming in and blowing millions on his own personal favourite players, a squad can be built over time even if the manager leaves.

 

I can see where Ashley was coming from on this, NUFC had quite a bad recent record of letting substandard managers spend too much of the club's money on shit players.

[Guest Heneage]

Aye, get rid of the scape goat. Ignore his good works.

 

Much like you're ignorning the lack of ability to strengthen the squad where it is needed. Then again I can't really say that as I'm not exactly sure what his role is like many others.

 

And I've said time and time again, how do you know his work is good? You won't know that until some of the young lads have had chance to develop in a couple of years time.

 

It's not Wise's fault he's not the Owner, his job is finding the players which he has in my opinion, Bassong alone has justified his fee, Colocinni has looked "Ok" Business, as has Jonas and Guthrie. We've had lots of young talent coming through the doors, ignroing how good Kadars been in my opinion he's doing everything you expect from a good DOF.

 

So are you going to completly ignore the gaping holes in the squad then?

 

Read my post above to Dan B, it's more than scouting the talent, it needs developing as well. And you can't say he's doing everything you expect from a good DOF as you don't actually know what his role is.

 

As I said, what do you want him to do? Ashley lets the money go not him, we saw all the players we were linked with in January, Donadel, Ebondo, Veloso, Etc. If the club can't negotiate a price be that because they are being cheap, or players are being over-valued so be it. The phrase "You can lead a horse to water.." springs to mind.

 

But then surely should he not work within his budget and try and get players that are actually attainable?

His job is to identify players that were attainable, if Ashley decides not to purchase them so be it.

[Thespence]

From the Beeb today...

 

Coventry City's executive chairman Ray Ranson has emerged as a strong candidate for the chief executive roles at Liverpool and Newcastle United. (Daily Mail)

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-1158369/CHARLES-SALE-Premier-League-pair-paying-Ranson.html

 

Ray Ranson, the footballer turned businessman who transformed the finances of Coventry City, has emerged as a strong candidate for the chief executive roles at both Liverpool and Newcastle.

 

Liverpool are searching for a replacement for Rick Parry who leaves at the end of the season, while Newcastle are expected to re-structure their club management operation this summer.

 

Ranson's name has already been mooted at Anfield and St James' Park after his extraordinary success as executive chairman at Championship club Coventry, who had debts of nearly £40million when the former Manchester City player led a consortium takeover in December 2007.

   

Since then Ranson has transformed the set-up at Coventry to the extent that the club are operating without a bank overdraft and have a promising young team under manager Chris Coleman.

 

Ranson, also well known for developing the Pro-Zone tactics aid, said: 'It's flattering that other clubs are taking an interest in what we're doing at Coventry, but there's a long way to go.'

 

Still remember when he scaled the fences at the leazes end after scoring a consolation against QPR in 1989 - the way he celebrated you'd think he'd just completed his hattrick!!   

 

 

Just read that on BBC gossip. Should of had its own thread. I thought he was the owner of Coventry? Billtray this is your patch do the groundwork & report back, if you dont we will send you to Coventry.

[Raconteur]

Problem is, DOF is not a well-defined role anyway... I guess there will be many people with that title who do very different things day-to-day.

 

I just think in modern football it is too much for a manager to be expected to run every aspect of the football club. The manager should be in charge of first-team matters, I agree.

 

The biggest potential benefit to the DOF system I think is long-term stability. Rather than every manager coming in and blowing millions on his own personal favourite players, a squad can be built over time even if the manager leaves.

 

I can see where Ashley was coming from on this, NUFC had quite a bad recent record of letting substandard managers spend too much of the club's money on shit players.

I'm sure I remember Mike Ashley (or Mort) saying something something along those lines right at the beginning. I remember thinking it sounded like something an English traditionalist (ie IT DOESN'T WORK IN ENGLAND!!!!1!1!!1!!1) would be offended by, but struck me as progressive and offering continuity.

 

Personally I think Wise choosing to leave is the only way to break the impasse - MA & DL would definitely prefer he stayed in order to show faith in their system and their man - and pig-headedness to be sure.

 

Of course, there will be a section of the support who would be on the back of the new ED(F), simply because it's not the English way