Dave Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 No, this isn't much of a positive thread. There are a lot of people who feel they should defend Ashley's plan/gamble based on the finances being much healthier next year should we stay up. I think they're hoping that with better finances, some wasters off the wage bill and this season out of the way, we can look to settle the club down and move forward and upwards in the league. The thing that worries me should we stay up is that Ashley/Llambias will think things have worked out okay and try the same next season. Cheap manager (they already seem to have decided this), cheap players (Ameobi, Butt etc) and looking purely to keep our heads above water. The recent comments from Llambias about the squad being 'great' really concern me, because I totally disagree. Especially when you take into account the players who are definitely leaving in the summer, those who may jump ship and the calibre of manager the club are expecting to manage them effectively. I'm waffling here, so I guess I'm just asking what gives people confidence that should we stay up this year things will automatically improve in the coming seasons? Am I being overly cynical here or what? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 no confidence whatsoever, think this'll be as good as gets for a while Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I'm hoping that the 'squad is great' comments are all an attempt at encouragement and false praise. Cos if they seriously think it is we're going down. If not this season then next! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 If we stay up JK stays and thats a massive negitive, now they can harp on about loving JK blah blah blah but its what players who want tio play have to say, I think we would see just as many of our top players wanting to leave if he keeps the job. Its only a matter of time before this club falls apart of Ashley carries on running us in the same way he is now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 We'll get another summer of contradictions, lying to the fans, promises being made and then being broke. The same if we go down too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistle17 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I've been thinking about this a lot, Dave, and Im very pessimistic about it myself. They're so naive that we're bound to end up in trouble again. I fear that we'll be replacing players like Owen and Viduka with no better than average players, and if we avoid a relegation dogfight then mid-table mediocrity beckons for the next few years. Its a horrible thought but I really can see it happen. The thing I fear most though is having Kinnear appointed full-time. If this is to happen then its clear for all to see what the clubs ambitions are; saving money. There will be plenty of players looking to jump ship in the summer, no doubt. I feel very depressed about our future.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 it is true but unless someone comes up with a wad of cash i think the only way to improve is to hope our scouts are better than our oppositions. ashleys 5 to 10mill plus the monies incoming.....which should already have been here, should provide a decent enough pot if spent wisely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistle17 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 We'll be working on a shoe-string budget with a shit manager. Fantastic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 it is true but unless someone comes up with a wad of cash i think the only way to improve is to hope our scouts are better than our oppositions. ashleys 5 to 10mill plus the monies incoming.....which should already have been here, should provide a decent enough pot if spent wisely. It's like the thing with Wise and Bassong/Jonas etc. Excellent finds, for not much money (though Jonas might well end up costing us more than they expected). But are people expecting this to be a steady stream of quality players for pennies year on year? If the funds for transfers are going to come purely from sales, the concept of trading up every time puts huge, huge pressure on the scouting and recruitment team. More pressure on Kinnear to make things work with a regular turnover of playing staff. I'm not convinced at all that the people we have in place are equipped to deal with this pressure and deliver. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I guess the proof will be in what he does in the few weeks after the end of the season if we are still a Prem club anyway, if JK is still offered the new deal or if he sets about trying to find a propper manager, the budget will always be a worry but a decent manager if more important than big transfer funds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 If we say up we'll find ourselves in exactly the same position this time next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugoinufc Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 cant take this club serious before we get a promising or proven manager with long vision in. I also think a "new" squad is necessary asap: these players have to leave with our manager: cacapa smith ameobi butt geremi duff viduka owen....can stay if he accepts lower wage think about the wages between these players and what they offer wouldn´t be sad if løvenkrands didnt got a new contract either Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 it is true but unless someone comes up with a wad of cash i think the only way to improve is to hope our scouts are better than our oppositions. ashleys 5 to 10mill plus the monies incoming.....which should already have been here, should provide a decent enough pot if spent wisely. It's like the thing with Wise and Bassong/Jonas etc. Excellent finds, for not much money (though Jonas might well end up costing us more than they expected). But are people expecting this to be a steady stream of quality players for pennies year on year? If the funds for transfers are going to come purely from sales, the concept of trading up every time puts huge, huge pressure on the scouting and recruitment team. More pressure on Kinnear to make things work with a regular turnover of playing staff. I'm not convinced at all that the people we have in place are equipped to deal with this pressure and deliver. i'd like to think that will be the case till the finances,particularly wages are made a bit more sensible. i agree about kinnear but outside the top 5 or 6 that is what the majority will have to do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I guess the proof will be in what he does in the few weeks after the end of the season if we are still a Prem club anyway, if JK is still offered the new deal or if he sets about trying to find a propper manager, the budget will always be a worry but a decent manager if more important than big transfer funds. Very true Skirge, I guess this thread all comes down to the choice of manager again. But then with us seemingly looking to do things differently to every other club (the inexperienced DOF system and payment up front/receipt over years), will they be able to entice anyone better? I'm not so sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I guess the proof will be in what he does in the few weeks after the end of the season if we are still a Prem club anyway, if JK is still offered the new deal or if he sets about trying to find a propper manager, the budget will always be a worry but a decent manager if more important than big transfer funds. Very true Skirge, I guess this thread all comes down to the choice of manager again. But then with us seemingly looking to do things differently to every other club (the inexperienced DOF system and payment up front/receipt over years), will they be able to entice anyone better? I'm not so sure. Thats just it though, we won't, no manager in their right mind would want the job, I am not convinced even JK will take the new offer if its still on the table, the DOF thing has to go its a stupid idea but then add to it the fact thats its Wise makes it 10x worse again. Every manager wants money but some are able to work on a non massive amount, like Bruce he knows and understands at Wigan that he oes not have fortubes to play with yet has still done a good job. But no way would he want to work under Wise. Works the other way to though, no point having a large budget then giving the money to a iidiot like JK to spend, the balance is what we need, non over the top spending but a clever enough manager whoc an work the trander window. No Wise or any DOF and Bruce with £20mill in a transfer window could be an okay situation, it just won't happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I think if we stay up and don't get sold in the summer, relegation will be a nigh-on dead cert next time out. Too many players going out and no ambition to replace them adequately will see us sink like a stone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I've still got this faint glimmer of hope that should we stay up, there will be some revived interest in the club. With Kinnear not accepting a longer contract/still not given the OK to return, it might finally be a head turner for Ashley that he really has fucked up and may consider cutting his losses before they become even greater and/or the fans turn on him once again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Geordie Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Even if we do stay up, for me it's only delaying the inevitable and next season will be another struggle. The intent of those running the club, is to run it on what amounts to petrol fumes until a buyer can be found. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistle17 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 But surely Kinnear cant stay....surely?!! He's just had a bloody triple bypass on his heart, and he's in his sixties.....he'd be a fool to take the offer. In saying that, though, we'll probably end up with Colin Calderwood instead... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 But surely Kinnear cant stay....surely?!! He's just had a bloody triple bypass on his heart, and he's in his sixties.....he'd be a fool to take the offer. In saying that, though, we'll probably end up with Colin Calderwood instead... Simply keeping Hughton and Calderwood in charge would be even cheaper... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Even if we do stay up, for me it's only delaying the inevitable and next season will be another struggle. The intent of those running the club, is to run it on what amounts to petrol fumes until a buyer can be found. media speculation would have you believe that potential buyers are there. As I said a few posts up, if Ashley wants to limit the financial damage, he should lower his price and just sell, otherwise he'll continue to make a loss. Its so painstakingly obvious. To make money from a football club, they need to be successful. For Newcastle United to be successful, we need serious investment. If he's not prepared to do that then its his own fucking fault, and he deserves financial ruin from his own naivity and stupidity. (Hopefully not ruining NUFC in the process!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Geordie Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 It's the whole idea about paying upfront for players (no outstanding debts) and waiting for income from player sold. Ashley will be able to tell potential buyers that there will be income coming into the club over a period of time from players who have been sold on (like Given, Milner and Charlie) The club is still very much for sale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistle17 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 It's the whole idea about paying upfront for players (no outstanding debts) and waiting for income from player sold. Ashley will be able to tell potential buyers that there will be income coming into the club over a period of time from players who have been sold on (like Given, Milner and Charlie) The club is still very much for sale. Agreed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardsleymagic Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 It's the whole idea about paying upfront for players (no outstanding debts) and waiting for income from player sold. Ashley will be able to tell potential buyers that there will be income coming into the club over a period of time from players who have been sold on (like Given, Milner and Charlie) The club is still very much for sale. Agreed. Oh aye. There's no doubt in my mind that that's the case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I wonder what will happen if these rumours are right and Wise does go in the summer, will we apoint another DOF or just scrap the system? I would like to think the DOF idea will be forgot about but I do not have faith that Ashley will do the right thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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