Exiled in Texas Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 This 'he touched the ball' protest is bollocks anyway - he went through the player to get the ball which is a foul. In the 1980's and possibly even the 1990's it wouldn't have been but this is something FIFA clamped down on ages ago. Regardless of whether he touched the ball or not he took the player out in the process which he isn't allowed to do. Wum? Seriously of course it wasn't a foul. Was actually a very good piece of defending. It was great defending.....right up to the point that Fletcher scissored the forward down with one leg either side of the arsenal player. Playing the ball first...in essence, means winning the race to the space, and then having established the right to the position, the other players momentum causes the contact (See spurs keeper last week). If Van persie had fallen over Fletchers front leg (that had played the ball) I doubt it would have been a foul, but instead the foul was caused by Fletchers trailing leg closing on Van persie and bringing him down in a scissors move. Winning the race to the space (i.e. touched the ball) doesn't mean that you are absolved from committing fouls - you have to look at what contact was made and how it was made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 This 'he touched the ball' protest is bollocks anyway - he went through the player to get the ball which is a foul. In the 1980's and possibly even the 1990's it wouldn't have been but this is something FIFA clamped down on ages ago. Regardless of whether he touched the ball or not he took the player out in the process which he isn't allowed to do. Wum? Seriously of course it wasn't a foul. Was actually a very good piece of defending. Joey Barton touched the ball when he tackled Alonso - was that a great bit of defending? Fletcher's wasn't from behind. It was from the side first of all. He didn't go through the player to get the ball and he got the ball first. Whether there's tangling within the same motion is irrelevant. Please don't compare it to Barton's that's stupid. If anything compare it to Beye's red against Man City because it's almost the exact same incident. And of course Beye's red was overruled and ref said he made a mistake. You need to watch Barton's again then. That wasn't from behind either, it started from the side. He also won the ball before going through the player. Absolutely nothing different about the two challenges other than Barton went in at speed, whereas both Fletcher and Cesc were running at the same speed. The whole "went in at speed" thing is pretty key. Barton went charging in & barely made any contact with the ball...you can see that the way it trickled away. Fletcher stuck out his heel & got more contact barely touching it than barton did with full momentum on his side. One is far more reckless than the other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 I miss the "I don't give a fuck" option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 This 'he touched the ball' protest is bollocks anyway - he went through the player to get the ball which is a foul. In the 1980's and possibly even the 1990's it wouldn't have been but this is something FIFA clamped down on ages ago. Regardless of whether he touched the ball or not he took the player out in the process which he isn't allowed to do. Wum? Seriously of course it wasn't a foul. Was actually a very good piece of defending. It was great defending.....right up to the point that Fletcher scissored the forward down with one leg either side of the arsenal player. Playing the ball first...in essence, means winning the race to the space, and then having established the right to the position, the other players momentum causes the contact (See spurs keeper last week). If Van persie had fallen over Fletchers front leg (that had played the ball) I doubt it would have been a foul, but instead the foul was caused by Fletchers trailing leg closing on Van persie and bringing him down in a scissors move. Winning the race to the space (i.e. touched the ball) doesn't mean that you are absolved from committing fouls - you have to look at what contact was made and how it was made. He never touched Van Persie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 I think theres a case for it being a pen. Watching the vid, he does make contact with the ball...but it is very minimal. If his trailing leg doesnt take out Fabregas's heels he'd have still had the ball...he doesnt knock it far away from him. Fletcher couldnt do much about it though, the way he went for the tackle meant his back leg had to follow around as he turned. Should never have been a red. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 I think theres a case for it being a pen. Watching the vid, he does make contact with the ball...but it is very minimal. If his trailing leg doesnt take out Fabregas's heels he'd have still had the ball...he doesnt knock it far away from him. Fletcher couldnt do much about it though, the way he went for the tackle meant his back leg had to follow around as he turned. Should never have been a red. Last man though. Shit rule too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 The rules say nothing about being last man. [/Wullie] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 I agree with NE5 about the video stuff, but aye, it should just be for red cards, pen shouts and goals that might not have been or weren't given etc. I do think that each team should have x amount of 'appeals' a game, much like in tennis, just so that they don't waste time appealing for blatantly obvious non-goals. Yeah, I think this is the way forward. The ref calls the game as he wants to and a team has one or two 'challenges' per half which can be used to challenge a foul, corner/free kick, penalty, goals etc. They can easily do this by having an extra official sitting in a booth somewhere and the manager can alert this official (who would alert the actual ref and stops the game) and reviews the play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 The rules say nothing about being last man. [/Wullie] Preventing a clear goalscoring opportunity? Same difference Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 This 'he touched the ball' protest is bollocks anyway - he went through the player to get the ball which is a foul. In the 1980's and possibly even the 1990's it wouldn't have been but this is something FIFA clamped down on ages ago. Regardless of whether he touched the ball or not he took the player out in the process which he isn't allowed to do. Wum? Seriously of course it wasn't a foul. Was actually a very good piece of defending. It was great defending.....right up to the point that Fletcher scissored the forward down with one leg either side of the arsenal player. Playing the ball first...in essence, means winning the race to the space, and then having established the right to the position, the other players momentum causes the contact (See spurs keeper last week). If Van persie had fallen over Fletchers front leg (that had played the ball) I doubt it would have been a foul, but instead the foul was caused by Fletchers trailing leg closing on Van persie and bringing him down in a scissors move. Winning the race to the space (i.e. touched the ball) doesn't mean that you are absolved from committing fouls - you have to look at what contact was made and how it was made. He never touched Van Persie. Looked like he hit him in the thighs after he got the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 This 'he touched the ball' protest is bollocks anyway - he went through the player to get the ball which is a foul. In the 1980's and possibly even the 1990's it wouldn't have been but this is something FIFA clamped down on ages ago. Regardless of whether he touched the ball or not he took the player out in the process which he isn't allowed to do. Wum? Seriously of course it wasn't a foul. Was actually a very good piece of defending. It was great defending.....right up to the point that Fletcher scissored the forward down with one leg either side of the arsenal player. Playing the ball first...in essence, means winning the race to the space, and then having established the right to the position, the other players momentum causes the contact (See spurs keeper last week). If Van persie had fallen over Fletchers front leg (that had played the ball) I doubt it would have been a foul, but instead the foul was caused by Fletchers trailing leg closing on Van persie and bringing him down in a scissors move. Winning the race to the space (i.e. touched the ball) doesn't mean that you are absolved from committing fouls - you have to look at what contact was made and how it was made. He never touched Van Persie. Looked like he hit him in the thighs after he got the ball. Trust me. He never touched Van Persie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 It was Fabregas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 I was going to point that out, but I don't want the Most Pedantic Poster 2009 award. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
womblemaster Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 thats shocking decision, what prick of a ref. A ref with any sort of character would have the balls to admit their mistake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 thats shocking decision, what prick of a ref. A ref with any sort of character would have the balls to admit their mistake. I'm absolutely sure he'd be willing to admit his mistake. What difference would that make though? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 You need to watch Barton's again then. That wasn't from behind either, it started from the side. He also won the ball before going through the player. Absolutely nothing different about the two challenges other than Barton went in at speed, whereas both Fletcher and Cesc were running at the same speed. I wasn't stating absolute rules that let you off no matter what but reasons that made Fletcher's not a red. I don't agree, Barton lunged in a speed. Got a small piece of the ball with his heel but basically went over the top of it into whats his name. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 You need to watch Barton's again then. That wasn't from behind either, it started from the side. He also won the ball before going through the player. Absolutely nothing different about the two challenges other than Barton went in at speed, whereas both Fletcher and Cesc were running at the same speed. I wasn't stating absolute rules that let you off no matter what but reasons that made Fletcher's not a red. I don't agree, Barton lunged in a speed. Got a small piece of the ball with his heel but basically went over the top of it into whats his name. What was the point you were making about going through the man from behind to get to the ball though? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 No he shouldn't be allowed to play. The rules may be stupid, but they're still the rules, you set a nasty precedent changing them to suit a big club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 What was the point you were making about going through the man from behind to get to the ball though? Are you trying to confuse me or something? ... I think my initial post made enough sense. It's not a case of Barton's wasn't a red for same reasons Fletcher's wasn't. The incidents are different. Would you say Barton's challenge was a foul even? Because if you're comparing the two that's what it comes down to. The red cards don't really matter seeing as for Fletcher's any kind of foul=red and we're arguing whether it was a foul at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 What was the point you were making about going through the man from behind to get to the ball though? Are you trying to confuse me or something? ... I think my initial post made enough sense. It's not a case of Barton's wasn't a red for same reasons Fletcher's wasn't. The incidents are different. Would you say Barton's challenge was a foul even? Because if you're comparing the two that's what it comes down to. The red cards don't really matter seeing as for Fletcher's any kind of foul=red and we're arguing whether it was a foul at all. Eh? You said the two were different because Fletcher's started around the side, rather than the back? Or have I read that wrong? Both were fouls imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Eh? You said the two were different because Fletcher's started around the side, rather than the back? Or have I read that wrong? Both were fouls imo. Ah right. But no, that wasn't in comparison of the two at all. Was just about Fletcher's and why I don't think it was a foul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Parka Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 No. I hate him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovejoy Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 No. I hate him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Fletcher & Abidal robbed tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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