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The England Thread

Pilko

by Pilko
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Guest orang

Guest orang

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Saw on Match of the Day last night that Ross Barkley, Daniel Sturridge, and Danny Welbeck were all singled out for glowing assessments from the pundits.

 

Both Oxelaide Chamberlain and Henderson appeared to have good games as well, judging by the coverage, and I do rate Wilshire and Sterling.

 

Is the above evidence of the media's tendency to show bias towards English players, or is the immediate future not as bleak as some people tend to make out?

 

Time for a bit of bias from myself, but Barkley was the best player on the pitch on Saturday. More impressive than Baines, Fellaini, Pienaar, Mirallas, or any Norwich player. Superb composure on the ball, played like a seasoned pro and a f***ing class goal. Yeah, a few errors but they came through a drive and ambition to make things happen, and something he'll - at this rate - pick up very fast.

 

Delighted he looks like he's finally getting a consistent chance. Something he didn't get under Moyes.

 

Wasn't he only playing becasue Gibsion was injured? Or is he now first choice pick?

 

That remains to be seen, but he surely impressed him immensely.

 

This however led to Fellaini playing deeper, as TCD mentioned, which hampered us greatly. So there are some bits to fit in the jigsaw yet. But individually he looked a class above nearly everyone on the pitch. Not bad for 19.

 

Yeah, he's also about 18 months behind on his development due to those injuries too.  Easily the best from the academy since Rooney.

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Mole_Toonfan

Mole_Toonfan

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Has Sterling been playing?

 

Also, is Milner ever going to start a game for Man City again? Will it make a difference? He'll still probably get in the England squad.

 

Why does it make a difference? they are in because we don't have much talent and they are clearly better than most.

 

Its not like the whole squad are getting in based on rep is it? Heck Sturridge has to score score 12 in 16 games for Liverpool to get in ffs.

 

Its easy to say this and ignore completely the amount of players are getting in due to good performances.

 

I'll ask you the same question i asked earlier.... who do we have playing week in week out who is better than Milner and Sterling?

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BrettNUFC

BrettNUFC

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Has Sterling been playing?

 

Also, is Milner ever going to start a game for Man City again? Will it make a difference? He'll still probably get in the England squad.

 

Why does it make a difference? they are in because we don't have much talent and they are clearly better than most.

 

Its not like the whole squad are getting in based on rep is it? Heck Sturridge has to score score 12 in 16 games for Liverpool to get in ffs.

 

Its easy to say this and ignore completely the amount of players are getting in due to good performances.

 

I'll ask you the same question i asked earlier.... who do we have playing week in week out who is better than Milner and Sterling?

 

I'd say someone like Nathan Redmond deserves a call up over Sterling. Has been looking decent for Norwich and not in the press for assaulting women and at least is playing games. Sterling has only created headlines for the wrong reasons so far yet still gets picked, just think it's poor myself, should be players in the squad who deserve it and have earned their opportunity.

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SEMTEX

SEMTEX

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Players I would prefer in the squad to Raheem Sterling, some of which are playing week in week out, some of which are far more promising, some of which are English male humans who are less of a cunt:

 

Caulker, Lescott, Shawcross, Zaha, Jonjo Shelvey, Adam Lallana, James Ward-Prowse, Luke Shaw, Wayne Routledge, Carl Jenkinson, Leon Osman, Gabriel Agbonlahor.

 

And half of these are shit.

 

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Mole_Toonfan

Mole_Toonfan

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Agbonlahor is a very good shout IMO.

 

Aye forgot about him fair play.

 

Players I would prefer in the squad to Raheem Sterling, some of which are playing week in week out, some of which are far more promising, some of which are English male humans who are less of a c***:

 

Caulker, Lescott, Shawcross, Zaha, Jonjo Shelvey, Adam Lallana, James Ward-Prowse, Luke Shaw, Wayne Routledge, Carl Jenkinson, Leon Osman, Gabriel Agbonlahor.

 

And half of these are s***.

 

 

Are Caulker, Lescott and Shawcross better than the CBs called up though?

 

Zaha, Ward Prowse and Shaw are in the U21 squad as is Redmond as it goes.

 

I agree on Routledge ( at least until the likes of Zaha and Redmond are ready) and Lallana, as for Jenkinson i'm not sure he's any better than the ones called up and we can't put that down to big club favoritism as he plays for Arsenal.

 

So that's 3 players(Routledge, Lallana and Agbonlahor) that maybe should have been called up over Milner, Sterling and Defoe.

 

But still in the main at least in my opinion, the squad is a good one and one of the better ones in recent times with a lot of performing talents getting their chance.

 

Also i'm sorry but Nolan isn't better than any of the midfielders called up.

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SEMTEX

SEMTEX

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The squad is massive, so I'd have no concerns losing Sterling for a player of another position. I've no issues with the squad in general, but there are a few players there who don't deserve to be there at all, and Raheem Sterling is leading that pack.

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hakka

hakka

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I'd love a rule that said minimum of 5 players in all starting line-ups must be British. That would do it for me. I'm certain there are decent English youngsters not getting the development or chances they need and on top there are existing pro's in the lower leagues that are being over-looked that could do a job for the top division. As a bare minimum there should be a rule that you can't have a side playing made up from 100% of non-British players in the league.

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Mole_Toonfan

Mole_Toonfan

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Well something needs to be done from top to f*cking bottom, but whether they know what is another matter entirely.

 

I hope that they do for the good of the country, would be nice to have a team that i can be proud of again.

 

And not overpaid, arrogant twats who i have nothing positives towards.

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jdckelly

jdckelly

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I'd love a rule that said minimum of 5 players in all starting line-ups must be British. That would do it for me. I'm certain there are decent English youngsters not getting the development or chances they need and on top there are existing pro's in the lower leagues that are being over-looked that could do a job for the top division. As a bare minimum there should be a rule that you can't have a side playing made up from 100% of non-British players in the league.

problem is any such rule would be utterly illegal under EU law

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hakka

hakka

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Posted

 

I'd love a rule that said minimum of 5 players in all starting line-ups must be British. That would do it for me. I'm certain there are decent English youngsters not getting the development or chances they need and on top there are existing pro's in the lower leagues that are being over-looked that could do a job for the top division. As a bare minimum there should be a rule that you can't have a side playing made up from 100% of non-British players in the league.

problem is any such rule would be utterly illegal under EU law

 

Why? It's still 6/11 biased towards non-local players?

 

Rhetorical question, of course. I'm sure there isn't a specific EU law regarding football and this scenario, but sure there is a law about refusing a person a job anywhere because of their nationality being within the EU but not British etc.

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jdckelly

jdckelly

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I'd love a rule that said minimum of 5 players in all starting line-ups must be British. That would do it for me. I'm certain there are decent English youngsters not getting the development or chances they need and on top there are existing pro's in the lower leagues that are being over-looked that could do a job for the top division. As a bare minimum there should be a rule that you can't have a side playing made up from 100% of non-British players in the league.

problem is any such rule would be utterly illegal under EU law

 

Why? It's still 6/11 biased towards non-local players?

 

Rhetorical question, of course. I'm sure there isn't a specific EU law regarding football and this scenario, but sure there is a law about refusing a person a job anywhere because of their nationality being within the EU but not British etc.

yup there is, same reason the squad rules can't say minimum 8 english players but 8 "homegrown" players which can and do include people of any nationality like Krul for us or in the past Fabregas for Arsenal.

From an outsiders pov it seems to me relying on football clubs whose relative wealth spending wise compared to the rest of europe is ridiculous to produce players for the national side is silly since they're solely looking out for themselves and most club owners aren't English most managers aren't English so they don't overly care about the England side, and barring the odd exception managers are never there long enough to look beyond short term thinking to save their job so will be less inclined to use younger players because of the risk.

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hakka

hakka

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Posted

 

I'd love a rule that said minimum of 5 players in all starting line-ups must be British. That would do it for me. I'm certain there are decent English youngsters not getting the development or chances they need and on top there are existing pro's in the lower leagues that are being over-looked that could do a job for the top division. As a bare minimum there should be a rule that you can't have a side playing made up from 100% of non-British players in the league.

problem is any such rule would be utterly illegal under EU law

 

Why? It's still 6/11 biased towards non-local players?

 

Rhetorical question, of course. I'm sure there isn't a specific EU law regarding football and this scenario, but sure there is a law about refusing a person a job anywhere because of their nationality being within the EU but not British etc.

yup there is, same reason the squad rules can't say minimum 8 english players but 8 "homegrown" players which can and do include people of any nationality like Krul for us or in the past Fabregas for Arsenal.

From an outsiders pov it seems to me relying on football clubs whose relative wealth spending wise compared to the rest of europe is ridiculous to produce players for the national side is silly since they're solely looking out for themselves and most club owners aren't English most managers aren't English so they don't overly care about the England side, and barring the odd exception managers are never there long enough to look beyond short term thinking to save their job so will be less inclined to use younger players because of the risk.

 

Is foreign owners of clubs the root cause then?

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jdckelly

jdckelly

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Posted

 

I'd love a rule that said minimum of 5 players in all starting line-ups must be British. That would do it for me. I'm certain there are decent English youngsters not getting the development or chances they need and on top there are existing pro's in the lower leagues that are being over-looked that could do a job for the top division. As a bare minimum there should be a rule that you can't have a side playing made up from 100% of non-British players in the league.

problem is any such rule would be utterly illegal under EU law

 

Why? It's still 6/11 biased towards non-local players?

 

Rhetorical question, of course. I'm sure there isn't a specific EU law regarding football and this scenario, but sure there is a law about refusing a person a job anywhere because of their nationality being within the EU but not British etc.

yup there is, same reason the squad rules can't say minimum 8 english players but 8 "homegrown" players which can and do include people of any nationality like Krul for us or in the past Fabregas for Arsenal.

From an outsiders pov it seems to me relying on football clubs whose relative wealth spending wise compared to the rest of europe is ridiculous to produce players for the national side is silly since they're solely looking out for themselves and most club owners aren't English most managers aren't English so they don't overly care about the England side, and barring the odd exception managers are never there long enough to look beyond short term thinking to save their job so will be less inclined to use younger players because of the risk.

 

Is foreign owners of clubs the root cause then?

nope I'd say the most obvious root cause is the miles lower amount of coach's present. The cash of the premier league doesn't help either since relegation is such a disaster how many clubs would be willing to take a chance on young english players to be a mainstay of their side going into a season? 

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hakka

hakka

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Posted

 

I'd love a rule that said minimum of 5 players in all starting line-ups must be British. That would do it for me. I'm certain there are decent English youngsters not getting the development or chances they need and on top there are existing pro's in the lower leagues that are being over-looked that could do a job for the top division. As a bare minimum there should be a rule that you can't have a side playing made up from 100% of non-British players in the league.

problem is any such rule would be utterly illegal under EU law

 

Why? It's still 6/11 biased towards non-local players?

 

Rhetorical question, of course. I'm sure there isn't a specific EU law regarding football and this scenario, but sure there is a law about refusing a person a job anywhere because of their nationality being within the EU but not British etc.

yup there is, same reason the squad rules can't say minimum 8 english players but 8 "homegrown" players which can and do include people of any nationality like Krul for us or in the past Fabregas for Arsenal.

From an outsiders pov it seems to me relying on football clubs whose relative wealth spending wise compared to the rest of europe is ridiculous to produce players for the national side is silly since they're solely looking out for themselves and most club owners aren't English most managers aren't English so they don't overly care about the England side, and barring the odd exception managers are never there long enough to look beyond short term thinking to save their job so will be less inclined to use younger players because of the risk.

 

Is foreign owners of clubs the root cause then?

nope I'd say the most obvious root cause is the miles lower amount of coach's present. The cash of the premier league doesn't help either since relegation is such a disaster how many clubs would be willing to take a chance on young english players to be a mainstay of their side going into a season?

 

Youth coaches is a definitely. You only have to compare the amounts we have at grass-roots level versus Germany and Spain to see why we are so far behind on the pitch.

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Guest

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Absolutely naff all stopping young English players go to France, Spain, etc. playing for lower Ligue 1, La Liga sides or whatever, but do you think they'd give up their 5-figure weekly wages for a fraction of that, despite first-team football?

 

Works both ways.

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Mole_Toonfan

Mole_Toonfan

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Absolutely naff all stopping young English players go to France, Spain, etc. playing for lower Ligue 1, La Liga sides or whatever, but do you think they'd give up their 5-figure weekly wages for a fraction of that, despite first-team football?

 

Works both ways.

 

Absolutely nothing to do with that.

 

It's the empire mentality that still pertains in Britain today. Everyone in Europe can speak multiple languages and can speak English better than most people in this country (UK) atm. We refuse to learn other languages and when we go abroad we expect them to speak English. This is also shown in our football, where we refuse to use new training methods and improve, believing our way is superior despite the results. They are too comfortable in England. It's no surprise that Hargreaves was technically superior to all our mf playing atm and he didn't learn his football in this country. Spain has reached this level because of importing ideas from multiple nations. England continually refuse to look outside. It's more than football, it's a mentality.

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