ponsaelius Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I don't think the number of foreign players makes a heap of difference btw. The only thing it does is cover these players weaknesses every week and allow them to build up their reputations. If the players were being developed right they'd make it regardless of how many foreign players there are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 So erm, why the fuck was Downing even on the plane? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 So erm, why the fuck was Downing even on the plane? Make the other players feel like worldbeaters? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I don't think the number of foreign players makes a heap of difference btw. The only thing it does is cover these players weaknesses every week and allow them to build up their reputations. If the players were being developed right they'd make it regardless of how many foreign players there are. It does if young English players can't get near PL club youth schemes because they're full of foreign kids. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Little Englander, I understand why it is like this, I'm just saying you can't expect waves of talented English kids to come through if the best places for them to earn their trade are too busy poaching 15 year old French kids. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Have to say, as much as I hate the cunt, Terry did have a decent enough tournament - he was arguably our best player tonight and more than played his role these last few weeks. Still a detestable cunt though but have to give credit when it's due. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I don't think the number of foreign players makes a heap of difference btw. The only thing it does is cover these players weaknesses every week and allow them to build up their reputations. If the players were being developed right they'd make it regardless of how many foreign players there are. It does if young English players can't get near PL club youth schemes because they're full of foreign kids. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Little Englander, I understand why it is like this, I'm just saying you can't expect waves of talented English kids to come through if the best places for them to earn their trade are too busy poaching 15 year old French kids. Aye but I don't think the players are coming into the clubs at 14/15 at the right level, which encourages them to take the easy route. I'd love OCK's input on this since I know it's close to his heart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 So erm, why the fuck was Downing even on the plane? Still regret giving my spot on the squad up to Downing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 The amount of foreign owners in the league will make it near impossible for us to enact changes that will benefit the national team IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 So erm, why the fuck was Downing even on the plane? To keep Adam Johnson off it, I presume. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistle17 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Premier League aside, I think that over the years we've always been far more inclined to review our failures with regards to external factors i.e penalties, bad refereeing decisions, foreigners winding us up etc etc. as opposed to internal factors such as a failure to build a recognised national football centre, or a centre of youth excellence, or review our youth development system. It's just a shame it took us until June 2010 to realise our own faults. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Still believe England should have used this as a transition experience and give players who have a future with the side more experience of international tournament football/playing with future teammates. Not to be too "I told you so" or anything, mind you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 VisitEngland @VisitEngland England lose on penalties. For more on our culture and traditions go to http://www.visitengland.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nguyen Van Falk Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Got some fella on facebook trying to tell me Johnson had a bloody good tournament Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 So erm, why the f*** was Downing even on the plane? To keep Adam Johnson off it, I presume. Who's stupid idea was that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 He did quite well tbf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 All of our players have attributes that make them effective in the confines of the rough and tumble, kick and rush Premier League but they all have glaring weaknesses and limitations as footballers, both technically and tactically. Parker looks good at club level doing the donkey work for a talent like Modric. Barry sits and does the basic stuff alongside a rolls royce of a player like Yaya Toure. Milner does the grafting that allows the likes of Silva and Aguero to shine. Even somebody like Gerrard has had his back covered consistently at club level. When he had his best season at Liverpool he was playing off the striker with freedom to get forward, while he was covered by two intelligent and disciplined FOREIGN players behind him in Alonso and Mascherano. They gave him the platform to perform and cover up his horrendous lack of positional and tactical awareness on the pitch. None of the players we produce are complete or well rounded. The wingers we produce are athletes with no skill or guile, the defenders are fundamentally good defenders but find themselves completely found out at international level when composure on the ball and distribution from the back is the order of the day. Terry's best club form came alongside Carvalho when he was at his very best, Lescott has Vincent Kompany alongside him who is arguably the best all round defender in Europe at the moment. You could go on all day long, all of them are good club performers but have glaring weaknesses which get shown up when they are put together into a team and asked to play a different style of football. It's excruciating and nothing will change until we tear it up and start again at a coaching level. No more focussing on physical strength and power, no more selecting players on size and athleticism, more coaching into the absolute basics from the young age - that's passing, ball retention, control, feeling comfotable with the fooking round thing at your feet! No more playing in straight lines either, players need to be playing in flexible formations from a young age so they can play all over the pitch. Their natural position will come to them at a later age. It's frustrating but it is clear as day. The players simply aren't good enough and won't be until something fundamentally changes at grass roots level. Save this post for WC 2014 and beyond. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 While I accept that our England players are just not technically as good as our European counterparts, what really annoys me is that we don't have the excuse of saying that we are not a footballing country and we have a small football league. We have a huge money spinning league, yet it's clear so little of it gets passed on to improving the standards of youth coaching so that we can improve the technique of the players coming through. So many issues at grass roots level, until we form a long term strategy and invest money to deliver it we will always be behind the rest of Europe. The Premier League is far closer to being the reason why England are shit, not a reason why we shouldn't be so. Look at some of the players who got into the England squad this time. Downing. What kind of a season has he had? Was it zero goals and zero assists? Henderson? A kid who had one half decent season at Sunderland, then an utter stinker for Liverpool. England's third choice goalkeeper is Jack Butland. Honestly, I wouldn't recognise him if he turned up to empty my bins (and given Birmingham City's financial situation, that's not out of the question pretty soon). The Premier League is not the best league in the world. it is the best marketed league in the world. Once you get past that, you have to look at the fact that there really aren't that many very good English players in it, so stuffed full is it of foreign players. You can then look at the fact that the money grabbing clubs, with the equally avaricious agents and players ensure that nothing like enough money trickles down to grass roots football education for kids. Just like none of it trickles down to create affordable tickets for fans, absolutely everything about the English game is short termist, and centred on greed, and that is why we'll never achieve anything at international level. Too many foreign players, not enough skill, game taught badly at youth levels (switch to big pitches and stamina/ strength too early). PL too high tempo (makes for good spectacle but low on teaching players ball intelligence and tempo). It's being fixed bit by bit (so they've been saying for two decades now) but not grass roots and substansial enough. It's basically still all wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 just got in. Atmosphere in the academy was top notch England? Shocking. Extra time was a fucking joke. So defensive. Rooney looked unfit, he brought Carroll on far too early and as for Ashley Young - he spent an entire season winning penalties by being a little cheating cunt - was that karma? Useless prick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 All of our players have attributes that make them effective in the confines of the rough and tumble, kick and rush Premier League but they all have glaring weaknesses and limitations as footballers, both technically and tactically. Parker looks good at club level doing the donkey work for a talent like Modric. Barry sits and does the basic stuff alongside a rolls royce of a player like Yaya Toure. Milner does the grafting that allows the likes of Silva and Aguero to shine. Even somebody like Gerrard has had his back covered consistently at club level. When he had his best season at Liverpool he was playing off the striker with freedom to get forward, while he was covered by two intelligent and disciplined FOREIGN players behind him in Alonso and Mascherano. They gave him the platform to perform and cover up his horrendous lack of positional and tactical awareness on the pitch. None of the players we produce are complete or well rounded. The wingers we produce are athletes with no skill or guile, the defenders are fundamentally good defenders but find themselves completely found out at international level when composure on the ball and distribution from the back is the order of the day. Terry's best club form came alongside Carvalho when he was at his very best, Lescott has Vincent Kompany alongside him who is arguably the best all round defender in Europe at the moment. You could go on all day long, all of them are good club performers but have glaring weaknesses which get shown up when they are put together into a team and asked to play a different style of football. It's excruciating and nothing will change until we tear it up and start again at a coaching level. No more focussing on physical strength and power, no more selecting players on size and athleticism, more coaching into the absolute basics from the young age - that's passing, ball retention, control, feeling comfotable with the fooking round thing at your feet! No more playing in straight lines either, players need to be playing in flexible formations from a young age so they can play all over the pitch. Their natural position will come to them at a later age. It's frustrating but it is clear as day. The players simply aren't good enough and won't be until something fundamentally changes at grass roots level. Save this post for WC 2014 and beyond. I know it's doomsday stuff and comes out after every major tournament but it's largely true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderson Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I don't think the number of foreign players makes a heap of difference btw. The only thing it does is cover these players weaknesses every week and allow them to build up their reputations. If the players were being developed right they'd make it regardless of how many foreign players there are. There's so many foreigners in the league at the minute because the youngsters that are coming through aren't good enough, not the other way round. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Eng movement off the ball is essentially pub side stuff. No alternatives given to the man on the ball but a half hearted hoof forward mostly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Dancer Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 England are shite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Have to say, as much as I hate the c***, Terry did have a decent enough tournament - he was arguably our best player tonight and more than played his role these last few weeks. Still a detestable c*** though but have to give credit when it's due. done lots of last ditch defending well, it's normally a sign of a team poorly organised defensivly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Eng movement off the ball is essentially pub side stuff. No alternatives given to the man on the ball but a half hearted hoof forward mostly. Clearly evident on throw in's when everyone is just standing still just about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Pirlo pls My though exactly As for Ashley Young man, what stinker. Didn´t even look at the goal once before he blasted the ball. i hope it haunts the cunt for the rest of his career...cant stand him to start with but now i've got another reason had a terrible tournament and that just topped it off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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