Guest H09 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 It is easy to replace Nolan and Barton, maybe Carroll and Enrique as well... "on paper" but it isn't easy to replace their effectiveness. Cabaye, Marveaux and Obertan have a lot to deliver. We are playing with fire by kicking out players that are or at least were working. These are the kind of players you build around not over write. Pardew has a hell of a job to do, he has to get this right from scratch, that is a big ask. We've been average to poor in pre-season and the first 3 games. We don't have anything about us, our attacking is pretty poor and we're little other than a set piece team. Ah. We really need a good solid home win on Sunday, just put my mind at rest. Pardew needs a left back and a striker there's no question about that. But if we've performed badly then a lot of it has been down to his long ball tactics which don't fit the players we have brought into the club. So far results have been good so we can say the ends justify them means. The jury is still out for me on Pardew though, I'll be interested to see if he makes the required changes necessary once we've got a proper left back in. I've got my fingers crossed that our long ball stuff is caused by our fullbacks not being good enough to generate a vibrant wing and our strikers offering nothing to hold up, play off or link the midfield. Cabaye has also been playing too deep to penetrate (LOL) anything from the middle. Still early doors. It's after 10 games we should have a perfect tactical insight I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 In terms of natural talent, technique and overall potential as a footballer Tioté is way, way ahead of Barton and Nolan. As effective as the latter two ended up being for us in recent years, neither are footballers that are going to inflate you to a higher level. This is going to sound cynical, but I do wonder if consciously both Barton and Nolan knew they were ultimately going to be shown the door. Their talk-ins, Barton's twitter account, interviews with the press and talking to people like Wraith, staying on the field longer than everybody else after the lap of honour... All propaganda that contributed to highlighting the importance of the 'players council' and their leadership qualities within the club. Leadership qualities that were more important (especially in Nolan's case) than their footballing ability. This is beginning to sound like apologist territory so I'll stop, but I definitely think their motives are far more cynical than meets the eye (although I do think they cared about the club). At the end of the day the club is bigger than average footballers like Nolan and Barton and will still be around long after they're retired and dead. I'm far more disappointed with the Enrique and Carroll sales, because they're the kind of players you can build a team around for 10 years or so. People group the 4 big sales in the same way, when for me they fall into two different categories. Carroll and Enrique are heading towards their peak and were either sold for an extortionate fee or left despite the best efforts (relatively) to keep them...whereas Nolan and Barton have been by all intents and purposes forced out of the club for a pittance. Looking at it simply it's asset stripping and four key players flogged, but look closely and I think Carroll/José sales are completely different to Nolan/Barton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Again, might I add that Ashley and Llambias are absolute cunts who run the club in the most amateur manner possible. Just trying to formulate an idea of what the other side (the players) might be like, because there is two sides to everything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 It is easy to replace Nolan and Barton, maybe Carroll and Enrique as well... "on paper" but it isn't easy to replace their effectiveness. Cabaye, Marveaux and Obertan have a lot to deliver. We are playing with fire by kicking out players that are or at least were working. These are the kind of players you build around not over write. Pardew has a hell of a job to do, he has to get this right from scratch, that is a big ask. We've been average to poor in pre-season and the first 3 games. We don't have anything about us, our attacking is pretty poor and we're little other than a set piece team. Ah. We really need a good solid home win on Sunday, just put my mind at rest. Pardew needs a left back and a striker there's no question about that. But if we've performed badly then a lot of it has been down to his long ball tactics which don't fit the players we have brought into the club. So far results have been good so we can say the ends justify them means. The jury is still out for me on Pardew though, I'll be interested to see if he makes the required changes necessary once we've got a proper left back in. I've got my fingers crossed that our long ball stuff is caused by our fullbacks not being good enough to generate a vibrant wing and our strikers offering nothing to hold up, play off or link the midfield. Cabaye has also been playing too deep to penetrate (LOL) anything from the middle. Still early doors. It's after 10 games we should have a perfect tactical insight I think. I'll be generous and say it's because of our limited full backs Pardew is playing the long ball game as a tactic rather than he doesn't have a clue how to set up a passing team. If I was a manager for example, the first thing I'd do was tell my goalkeeper to throw the ball to the full backs to start a move rather than hoof it down the pitch to two big twats I'd selected specifically to play the long ball game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyAnth Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Why is Wraith such good pals with them anyway? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShearMagic Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Why is Wraith such good pals with them anyway? Because he licks their arses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomson Mouse Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 I remember Wraith from when he used to stand in the 'D' paddock with a few other lads, one in particular called Matty I think, used to do his bullying for him. All Felling boys if I remember from some of the grunts he replied with when I was unfortunate enough to try and communicate with him. They all used to fancy themselves as gangsters then as well. This was about 1991 ish. He was writing letters to whichever Kray brother was locked up at the time and had just had replies off him, he was star struck and fuckin shut up about it. He's always been desperate for celebrity status, right from when he wrote that pathetically shit fanzine no9 (I think), up until now. It made me laugh when he was appointed to that fans liaison role. Sorry for the recollections (I'm sure there is more in my head somewhere), it's just his aspiring cuntishness has always been there, he was a nasty piece of work then and still is now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 It is easy to replace Nolan and Barton, maybe Carroll and Enrique as well... "on paper" but it isn't easy to replace their effectiveness. Cabaye, Marveaux and Obertan have a lot to deliver. We are playing with fire by kicking out players that are or at least were working. These are the kind of players you build around not over write. Pardew has a hell of a job to do, he has to get this right from scratch, that is a big ask. We've been average to poor in pre-season and the first 3 games. We don't have anything about us, our attacking is pretty poor and we're little other than a set piece team. Ah. We really need a good solid home win on Sunday, just put my mind at rest. Pardew needs a left back and a striker there's no question about that. But if we've performed badly then a lot of it has been down to his long ball tactics which don't fit the players we have brought into the club. So far results have been good so we can say the ends justify them means. The jury is still out for me on Pardew though, I'll be interested to see if he makes the required changes necessary once we've got a proper left back in. I've got my fingers crossed that our long ball stuff is caused by our fullbacks not being good enough to generate a vibrant wing and our strikers offering nothing to hold up, play off or link the midfield. Cabaye has also been playing too deep to penetrate (LOL) anything from the middle. Still early doors. It's after 10 games we should have a perfect tactical insight I think. I'll be generous and say it's because of our limited full backs Pardew is playing the long ball game as a tactic rather than he doesn't have a clue how to set up a passing team. If I was a manager for example, the first thing I'd do was tell my goalkeeper to throw the ball to the full backs to start a move rather than hoof it down the pitch to two big twats I'd selected specifically to play the long ball game. I don't know where this notion of pardew being a long merchant has come fom he built decent fluid attacking and passing teams at West Ham and Reading. Didn't he actually talk about that being a priority when he started with us? I lose track given every new manager talks up the attractive crowd pleasing football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Melbourne Toon Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 In terms of natural talent, technique and overall potential as a footballer Tioté is way, way ahead of Barton and Nolan. As effective as the latter two ended up being for us in recent years, neither are footballers that are going to inflate you to a higher level. This is going to sound cynical, but I do wonder if consciously both Barton and Nolan knew they were ultimately going to be shown the door. Their talk-ins, Barton's twitter account, interviews with the press and talking to people like Wraith, staying on the field longer than everybody else after the lap of honour... All propaganda that contributed to highlighting the importance of the 'players council' and their leadership qualities within the club. Leadership qualities that were more important (especially in Nolan's case) than their footballing ability. This is beginning to sound like apologist territory so I'll stop, but I definitely think their motives are far more cynical than meets the eye (although I do think they cared about the club). At the end of the day the club is bigger than average footballers like Nolan and Barton and will still be around long after they're retired and dead. I'm far more disappointed with the Enrique and Carroll sales, because they're the kind of players you can build a team around for 10 years or so. People group the 4 big sales in the same way, when for me they fall into two different categories. Carroll and Enrique are heading towards their peak and were either sold for an extortionate fee or left despite the best efforts (relatively) to keep them...whereas Nolan and Barton have been by all intents and purposes forced out of the club for a pittance. Looking at it simply it's asset stripping and four key players flogged, but look closely and I think Carroll/José sales are completely different to Nolan/Barton. Totally agree with all of this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 can we never ever mention Wraith again He apparently reads this board. So aslong as it's him being slated then fantastic. Does he ? wow, ok then. Steve your a monumental cunt, shut the fuck up you chronic bollock headed cunt. THAT'S WRAITHIST! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 It is easy to replace Nolan and Barton, maybe Carroll and Enrique as well... "on paper" but it isn't easy to replace their effectiveness. Cabaye, Marveaux and Obertan have a lot to deliver. We are playing with fire by kicking out players that are or at least were working. These are the kind of players you build around not over write. Pardew has a hell of a job to do, he has to get this right from scratch, that is a big ask. We've been average to poor in pre-season and the first 3 games. We don't have anything about us, our attacking is pretty poor and we're little other than a set piece team. Ah. We really need a good solid home win on Sunday, just put my mind at rest. Pardew needs a left back and a striker there's no question about that. But if we've performed badly then a lot of it has been down to his long ball tactics which don't fit the players we have brought into the club. So far results have been good so we can say the ends justify them means. The jury is still out for me on Pardew though, I'll be interested to see if he makes the required changes necessary once we've got a proper left back in. I've got my fingers crossed that our long ball stuff is caused by our fullbacks not being good enough to generate a vibrant wing and our strikers offering nothing to hold up, play off or link the midfield. Cabaye has also been playing too deep to penetrate (LOL) anything from the middle. Still early doors. It's after 10 games we should have a perfect tactical insight I think. I'll be generous and say it's because of our limited full backs Pardew is playing the long ball game as a tactic rather than he doesn't have a clue how to set up a passing team. If I was a manager for example, the first thing I'd do was tell my goalkeeper to throw the ball to the full backs to start a move rather than hoof it down the pitch to two big twats I'd selected specifically to play the long ball game. I think you're right. Full backs who are comfortable on the ball and who want to get forward can make a big difference to your attacking threat, and your ability to keep hold of the ball. I'm hopeful that it's being addressed though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J7 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Wraith was on the train back from Sunderland last week next to my mates. They said all he did was boast about how he was texting Joey. Anyway, alot of people who write for fanzines are gobshites. Him with the long hair who does True Faith is always moaning about idiots on message forums talking shite. Sorry pal, just because your view is in a fuckin fanzine doesn't make it any more valid than the view of anyone from here. Fanzine folk seem to think they're something better, a cut above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dogbeak Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 At the end of the day the club is bigger than average footballers like Nolan and Barton and will still be around long after they're retired and dead. I'm far more disappointed with the Enrique and Carroll sales, because they're the kind of players you can build a team around for 10 years or so. enrique aside, once carroll had gone the utility of nolan and barton were both reduced - deep cross, knock down and tap-in was an effective (if limited strategy), but once one part had left the others were left swinging in the wind a little. so i'm not massively concerned with our midfield strength, though we are going to have to play a different game (for better or for worse). striker is, of course, an issue. we may still need some "personalities" to step up, but i'm not writing off the potential for that to happen. at least amongst the players coming through there's a few that have been here a good few years and should hopefully understand what the club is about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 It is easy to replace Nolan and Barton, maybe Carroll and Enrique as well... "on paper" but it isn't easy to replace their effectiveness. Cabaye, Marveaux and Obertan have a lot to deliver. We are playing with fire by kicking out players that are or at least were working. These are the kind of players you build around not over write. Pardew has a hell of a job to do, he has to get this right from scratch, that is a big ask. We've been average to poor in pre-season and the first 3 games. We don't have anything about us, our attacking is pretty poor and we're little other than a set piece team. Ah. We really need a good solid home win on Sunday, just put my mind at rest. Pardew needs a left back and a striker there's no question about that. But if we've performed badly then a lot of it has been down to his long ball tactics which don't fit the players we have brought into the club. So far results have been good so we can say the ends justify them means. The jury is still out for me on Pardew though, I'll be interested to see if he makes the required changes necessary once we've got a proper left back in. I've got my fingers crossed that our long ball stuff is caused by our fullbacks not being good enough to generate a vibrant wing and our strikers offering nothing to hold up, play off or link the midfield. Cabaye has also been playing too deep to penetrate (LOL) anything from the middle. Still early doors. It's after 10 games we should have a perfect tactical insight I think. I'll be generous and say it's because of our limited full backs Pardew is playing the long ball game as a tactic rather than he doesn't have a clue how to set up a passing team. If I was a manager for example, the first thing I'd do was tell my goalkeeper to throw the ball to the full backs to start a move rather than hoof it down the pitch to two big twats I'd selected specifically to play the long ball game. I don't know where this notion of pardew being a long merchant has come fom he built decent fluid attacking and passing teams at West Ham and Reading. Didn't he actually talk about that being a priority when he started with us? I lose track given every new manager talks up the attractive crowd pleasing football. It's not a notion it's an observation of the three games we've played. The goalkeeper and the defenders are hoofing the ball long towards a big centre forward, it's not up for debate it's happening. Like I said, I'll be generous and put that down to us having no decent full backs so maybe this is a temporary tactic until we get players in who we can trust to bring the ball out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dogbeak Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 i'm with tron on this, we've played some miserable looking football so far (results aside, obviously). considering the farce of pre-season, i'd think there's still work to do towards getting everyone integrated into the team, as it looks like we're groping towards a new style of play without particularly knowing what it is yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Cabaye has been too far advanced, if anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 There will be a lot of pressure on him. It looks like he's being paid a lot more than his team-mates and he'll be expected to deliver. Normally I think he likes an underdog status so this will be a challenge. Becoming a parent might help. Having someone more important than Joey Barton to think about may be just what he needs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomson Mouse Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 J_Enrique3 José Enrique @Joey7Barton ha, congratulation on move. I say it would happen! Obviously been saying different things to colleagues than he has to us fans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David28 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 J_Enrique3 José Enrique @Joey7Barton ha, congratulation on move. I say it would happen! Obviously been saying different things to colleagues than he has to us fans Barton or Enrique? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Hate to say it, but Merson actually made a good point there about Barton and his temperament. Interesting to see what would happen if Barton starts berating his team mates, the likes of Taraabt, when they get their ass inevitably handed to them a couple of times this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Hate to say it, but Merson actually made a good point there about Barton and his temperament. Interesting to see what would happen if Barton starts berating his team mates, the likes of Taraabt, when they get their ass inevitably handed to them a couple of times this season. He also said Steven Gerrard is the best midfielder in the country. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Hate to say it, but Merson actually made a good point there about Barton and his temperament. Interesting to see what would happen if Barton starts berating his team mates, the likes of Taraabt, when they get their ass inevitably handed to them a couple of times this season. He also said Steven Gerrard is the best midfielder in the country. I did say I hate to say that he made a good point. It feels wrong saying that Paul Merson has made an interesting comment in his 'punditry'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 can we never ever mention Wraith again He apparently reads this board. So aslong as it's him being slated then fantastic. Does he ? wow, ok then. Steve your a monumental cunt, shut the fuck up you chronic bollock headed cunt. THAT'S WRAITHIST! That didn't get the laugh it deserved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomson Mouse Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 J_Enrique3 José Enrique @Joey7Barton ha, congratulation on move. I say it would happen! Obviously been saying different things to colleagues than he has to us fans Barton or Enrique? Barton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Not a real account though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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