The old Chris Hughton discussion thread

[sparkzter]

Hughton's gone down in my estimation after those quotes. Defending Kevin f***ing Nolan. Kevin. f***ing. Nolan.

 

I still like Hughton though, just for the record.

 

This is what I was going to post, more or less. A little sad about it though.

 

CH still sees us as a Championship side that needs a fish'n'chips player like Nolan, when not all newly-promoted teams necessarily have to fit a certain style of play. As I said, sad.

 

If Hughton's lucky, Nolan will pick up an injury.

 

This.

 

If Chris keeps persisting in playing Nolan its gonna cost us points, and stack the pressure upon himself.

[EthiGeordie]

  When Chirs make Nolan a captain it was a given fact he will keep Nolan here in the first team. All this yawn I don't understand. I prefer to keep Barton on the bench on home game and put jonas on the wing and Ben Arfa in the middle.

[Parky]

Much like our efforts against Villa and Everton were turned to shit by Blackpool and Stoke

 

... our efforts of signing Ben Arfa are to be turned to shit if he's constantly going to be played on the left and taken off after 65 minutes.

 

I can't imagine Bafra been keen on being subbed regularly, especially by chewbacca. He's not one to hang around if he ain't happy and that's putting it nicely.

[Mick]

 

I can't imagine Bafra been keen on being subbed regularly, especially by chewbacca. He's not one to hang around if he ain't happy and that's putting it nicely.

 

I think Hughton will get pressure from the crowd before he gets a reaction from Ben Arfa.  Almost everybody was moaning about Hughton leaving Nolan on as we were coming out on Sunday and I don't think it would take too many defeats before Nolan is given some stick from the crowd.  It was a bit surprising to me how bad some of the comments were and how quick the complaints had started.

[sparkzter]

Yup, everyone where I sit was moaning about Nolan also.  Won't be long (unfortunately) before the crowd starts getting on Nolans back and giving Hughton stick to hook him.

[merlin]

This has all the makings of another managerial disaster. Hughton should have kept his mouth shut about Nolan, or at the very least, simply said that all players have to work for their places.

 

By coming out so strongly to back Nolan as a so-called 'key' player he has illustrated two things ;

 

1. He is unlikely to have the necessary ruthlessness to succeed as a manager in the PL..look how KK disciplined Lee Clark after he kicked that water bucket after being subbed at Southampton - Clark was in fear of being transfer-listed for about 10 days.Keegan also pulled off Beresford for swearing at him and questioning his judgment in a game against Villa in 1996. Keegan was hardly the biggest disciplinarian as a manager, but the players knew where they stood. He got rid of Andy Hunt, a young player I rated, just after he arrived in Feb 92 because Hunt was mucking about in training . Hunt proved to be a decent player because he went on to get promotion with Charlton(helping to knock the Mackems out in the Wembley play-off too!), but KK laid down the rules straight away...he was the boss.

 

2. By hastily backing Nolan, Hughton has also unwittingly admitted that his hands are very much tied and he is unlikely to be able to get the money for a better player.

 

Both facts are worrying ; I have no personal like or dislike for Hughton ; there is no doubt he steadied the ship and over-saw the departure of players who needed to leave before last season. His signings so far have looked OK, esp Tiote, but I'm not convinced about Routledge in the PL. HBA is still an unknown and untried in England, but he'll soon get fed up if he finds he is being subbed instead of the pin-up boy...

Nevertheless, our most important priority is to stay in the PL and win as many home games as possible.

If Hughton can do that he will get my backing, if not, he has to go - simple as, and as Midds said, his P45 WILL be winging its way to him if we really start to struggle.

 

And then the fun will really start.........because I don't believe a Plan B exists in the minds of Ashley and Llambias.

[Mr Logic]

It was all very FM-tastic, first the player defends the managers tactics and then the manager bigs up the player. It's all going to end in tears, I just hope it's not 50k geordies weeping come April.

 

[Colos Curls]

It was all very FM-tastic, first the player defends the managers tactics and then the manager bigs up the player. It's all going to end in tears, I just hope it's not 41k geordies because its on sky and the 12th mans just too much of a fuck on and i cant be arsed anymore.... weeping come April.

 

 

FYP

[Cronky]

I know things can get a bit bi-polar among a group of fans, but it's getting a bit out of hand. Exactly the same side beat Everton away and Hughton was a genius.

 

What has changed isn't Hughton or the team or Nolan but the opposition. Both games were fairly close, and against Stoke we were up against a team that was able to exploit a particular weakness in our defence.

 

Nolan's lack of pace is a problem, but he does get on the end of chances through his good reading of the game. He's also a fair bit fitter than he was when he first came. What he contributes to the team in terms of leadership is difficult to assess, but there aren't any other leaders in the side at the moment (apart from possibly Barton), so that has to be weighed up as well.

 

We also need to weigh up how best to use Ben Arfa. His current role looks right for him, and if we put him further forward trying to get on the end of Carroll's knock-downs, we might lose as much as we gain.

[Dave]

Agree, though I don't rate Nolan either. Talk of it costing him his job is laughable at this stage.

[Crumpy Gunt]

I know things can get a bit bi-polar among a group of fans, but it's getting a bit out of hand. Exactly the same side beat Everton away and Hughton was a genius.

 

What has changed isn't Hughton or the team or Nolan but the opposition. Both games were fairly close, and against Stoke we were up against a team that was able to exploit a particular weakness in our defence.

 

Nolan's lack of pace is a problem, but he does get on the end of chances through his good reading of the game. He's also a fair bit fitter than he was when he first came. What he contributes to the team in terms of leadership is difficult to assess, but there aren't any other leaders in the side at the moment (apart from possibly Barton), so that has to be weighed up as well.

 

We also need to weigh up how best to use Ben Arfa. His current role looks right for him, and if we put him further forward trying to get on the end of Carroll's knock-downs, we might lose as much as we gain.

 

We beat Everton away - the worst teanm in the League currently. Villa we could not have played at a better time with everything that was going on there. Happily we put both to bed and won a grateful 6 points, Blackpool and Stoke where an embarrassment both on the pitch and more worryingly off the pitch. Nolan is an embarrassment in the position he occupies at this moment i time. Its  abigger embarrassment watching Hughton work his substitutions around moving Nolan to different postions instead of JUST TAKING THE USELESSLY SLOW TWAT OFF.

[TRon]

I know things can get a bit bi-polar among a group of fans, but it's getting a bit out of hand. Exactly the same side beat Everton away and Hughton was a genius.

 

What has changed isn't Hughton or the team or Nolan but the opposition. Both games were fairly close, and against Stoke we were up against a team that was able to exploit a particular weakness in our defence.

 

Nolan's lack of pace is a problem, but he does get on the end of chances through his good reading of the game. He's also a fair bit fitter than he was when he first came. What he contributes to the team in terms of leadership is difficult to assess, but there aren't any other leaders in the side at the moment (apart from possibly Barton), so that has to be weighed up as well.

 

We also need to weigh up how best to use Ben Arfa. His current role looks right for him, and if we put him further forward trying to get on the end of Carroll's knock-downs, we might lose as much as we gain.

 

This idea that we have to play Ben Arfa as a winger or a poacher is itself an indictment of the current level of thinking at this club. Tell me, does Tevez chase after flick ons at Man City? Does Torres at Liverpool? Does Rooney at Man U? Who chases after Drogba's flick ons? Hughton's use of Nolan as a fat moocher is effectively restricting our method of scoring goals to hump it high and hope it lands at Nolan's feet. The worst part of it is we aren't even as good at it as Stoke.

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Ben Arfa's current role looks wrong to me, he's playing on the left wing but he spends all his time in the centre.

[Hughesy]

Agree - I don't think Jonas should have been dropped in the first place as I thought he was playing well.  But, in addition to that, he links up brilliantly with Jose and brings the best out of Jose going forward.  He also covers Enrique well, meaning our left hand side is pretty solid.

 

Ben Arfa always goes inside looking for the ball (an admirable trait at times) - which means Jose is often stranded defensively and restricted in an attacking sense.  If you give Ben Arfa a 'free role' in the middle, it allows Ben Arfa the freedom he needs to play as well as he can and strengthens our left hand side.  And gets the fat waster out of the team.

[merlin]

Agree with basic sentiments of last 3 posts,

 

Talk about Everton and Villa should be also kept in context because we played these teams at the right time - Chelsea too, because it was in a competition where both clubs were prepared to field basically reserve sides.

 

As Crumpy says, we got a grateful 6 points from Villa & Everton but then spoiled it all by losing at home to 2 sides who will probably finish below these teams - in fact, the 6 points from Villa and Everton I would rather have had from Stoke and Blackpool because we are likely to be competing with these teams for survival this season and the results were almost 6 pointers EACH..

 

Sadly, I can already see splits developing on this forum about the manager and much of that is because whilst some want to give him the benefit of the doubt, others see the warning signs only too well in the Nolan business.

As I said earlier, he will be here longer than many would because the board currently have little option anyway, so although everyone will speculate, in actual fact there will be nothing happening this side of December..if then.

 

Hughesy has a good point about Jonas and his link with Enrique - at this point, although BOTH players are unproductive, Routledge looks the one who should be dropped. Enrique did NOT look comfortable linking with HBA..

[Cronky]

The issue that I think is being ignored here is how to link with Carroll. He's strong but not very mobile and, as others have rightly said, there's a danger that he can get isolated. A big part of Nolan's job is to play quite far forward to make sure that doesn't happen. If you ask Ben Arfa to do the same thing, then you'll be restricting him a bit. He'll be playing in a more crowded area rather than dropping deep in a free role and running at the defence.

 

The other by-product of Nolan's role is that he gets on the end of chances, and even if he isn't quick, he does have the strength and the ability in the air to put some of them away. Ben Arfa looks like a creator rather than a finisher to me.

 

I'm quite sure that this is the dilemma that is in Hughton's head. It's more complex than how useful / useless you think Nolan is as an individual.

[TRon]

The issue that I think is being ignored here is how to link with Carroll. He's strong but not very mobile and, as others have rightly said, there's a danger that he can get isolated. A big part of Nolan's job is to play quite far forward to make sure that doesn't happen. If you ask Ben Arfa to do the same thing, then you'll be restricting him a bit. He'll be playing in a more crowded area rather than dropping deep in a free role and running at the defence.

 

The other by-product of Nolan's role is that he gets on the end of chances, and even if he isn't quick, he does have the strength and the ability in the air to put some of them away. Ben Arfa looks like a creator rather than a finisher to me.

 

I'm quite sure that this is the dilemma that is in Hughton's head. It's more complex than how useful / useless you think Nolan is as an individual.

 

That brings into question Carroll's role in the team. Usually a target man is used to bring others into the game, whether that's a forward running off him or midfielders arriving in the box. Nolan doesn't really fit into either category and IMO the partnership doesn't work. As it happens I thought Ranger was excellent in his hold up play when he was used as a sole striker last season. Hughton needs to find a solution where the strikers are linking with the midfielders better, we would have a better chance of scoring goals that way IMO.

 

 

[Cronky]

The issue that I think is being ignored here is how to link with Carroll. He's strong but not very mobile and, as others have rightly said, there's a danger that he can get isolated. A big part of Nolan's job is to play quite far forward to make sure that doesn't happen. If you ask Ben Arfa to do the same thing, then you'll be restricting him a bit. He'll be playing in a more crowded area rather than dropping deep in a free role and running at the defence.

 

The other by-product of Nolan's role is that he gets on the end of chances, and even if he isn't quick, he does have the strength and the ability in the air to put some of them away. Ben Arfa looks like a creator rather than a finisher to me.

 

I'm quite sure that this is the dilemma that is in Hughton's head. It's more complex than how useful / useless you think Nolan is as an individual.

 

That brings into question Carroll's role in the team. Usually a target man is used to bring others into the game, whether that's a forward running off him or midfielders arriving in the box. Nolan doesn't really fit into either category and IMO the partnership doesn't work. As it happens I thought Ranger was excellent in his hold up play when he was used as a sole striker last season. Hughton needs to find a solution where the strikers are linking with the midfielders better, we would have a better chance of scoring goals that way IMO.

 

 

I'd agree. Hughton's position is that he has to choose between a number of options, none of which are ideal or obviously better than the rest.

 

I think Carroll has to play, although Shola and Ranger each, in their own way, have a slightly different package to offer. What swings it for me is Carroll's work in helping out the defence at set pieces. He really is great at getting his head to the ball, and that's very important to us. It's an area where we're otherwise very weak, and we'd be at risk of a lot more Stoke-like defeats if Carroll was absent.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Carroll's position in the team is that he's the only striker we have that's anywhere near Premiership level.

[UV]

I agree almost completely with bobyule's last few posts. That's not something I thought I'd ever type. Unfortunately it will probably go over most people's heads and just get lost in amongst the "Nolan's shit but he'll never drop him" rubbish. It's nowhere near as cut and dried as people are making out that putting Ben Arfa in as a the 2nd striker or free-role-linking-midfielder, or whatever will be the answer to all our problems.

 

I'm quite happy that Hughton isn't the sort of manager that people on here seem to want him to be, and will chop and change a team which won a difficult away game the previous week just to try out players in new positions on a whim in important games because it looks like it might work in theory. It may well end up that Ben Arfa takes Nolan's position, but if he does I'm sure it will be after it has been tried, tested and practised in training.

 

The problem in the second half on Saturday had nothing to do with who our 2nd striker was, it was that Stoke instead of allowing us to dominate possession, soaking up pressure and hitting us on the break like they tried in the first half knew they had to come at us a bit more. It's disappointing that they found it so easy to do so, but not really surprising. That's not really Hughton's fault though, it's down to the quality of the players he has in the squad. How should he have changed the midfield to stop that happening? When Ben Arfa was on the pitch he didn't stop it happening, and when Gutierrez came on neither did he, so where's the thinking that having both of them on the pitch at the same time would have suddenly stopped Stoke come from?

[Dave]

Keeping Tiote on the pitch would have helped.

[Ronaldo]

What was stopping Hughton selling Smith, Nolan, Shola and Lovenkrands, and using those funds to buy a decent striker and midfielder to replace them?

[Yorkie]

Must have missed all them bids we got for those players.

[Ronaldo]

I don't believe for one second we couldn't have gotten rid of all of them. And for prices above their value to us on the pitch.

[Greg]

What was stopping Hughton selling Smith, Nolan, Shola and Lovenkrands, and using those funds to buy a decent striker and midfielder to replace them?

 

Clubs willing to buy them for a start.