World on alert Germans marching again!

[Jayson]

Its pretty evident from just this thread alon we can all agree we aren't producing players with "ball control, touch and movement". 

 

 

Im pretty sure every single one of our players can control the ball well, has good touch & the majority of them movement also.

Rooney being the prime example of having all 3 in abundance at Man U & yet looking awful at all of them quite a few times in the world cup.

[Disco]

How much coaching is there in South America? Can't imagine they've got academies coming out of their ears.

 

IIRC the Brazillian clubs all have schools where kids move to the cities from wherever or whatnot and are schooled by the football clubs whilst being at their academies. Completely unrelated but they also show quite a few youth league games on Brazillian TV.

 

Everyone i saw in South America plays on futsal style courts as they have these in all the neighbourhoods.

[Keefaz]

Here is an interesting article that talks about how the youth and academy system is done in Holland and then compares and constrasts to the US and England. Warning: This article is very long... like HTT long.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?scp=4&sq=dutch%20soccer&st=cse

 

 

 

Very good read. Thanks for that.

 

"But one element of the academy’s success is that the boys are not overplayed, so the hours at De Toekomst are all business. Through age 12, they train only three times a week and play one game on the weekend. “For the young ones, we think that’s enough,” Riekerink said when we talked in his office one day. “They have a private life, a family life. We don’t want to take that from them. When they are not with us, they play on the streets. They play with their friends. Sometimes that’s more important. They have the ball at their feet without anyone telling them what to do.” "

 

I think this is an important point. A lot of the kids I know who are promising players are on two or three teams and play matches all the time: even two a day sometimes.

[NG32]

Yep, you can only play for one team.

[Parky]

Isn't it just that more often than not the bigger more aggresive lads get picked up by clubs due to the nature of the PL. I've heard it many talented kids are rejected for being 'too small'.

[Wullie]

I've heard it too. About a dozen posts ago in fact.

[TaylorJ_01]

God, this whole 'What is wrong with English football' by 'x' is going to get tiring. Unfortunately nothing will happen. The physicality of the English game isn't going to change any time soon.

[juniatmoko]

 

Filthy German b******.

 

WTF.. he eat that? O.o

[mrmojorisin75]

God, this whole 'What is wrong with English football' by 'x' is going to get tiring. Unfortunately nothing will happen. The physicality of the English game isn't going to change any time soon.

very true

[Keefaz]

Maybe a better approach would be to ask: how can we get the best out of the English system? We're never going to be like Brazil or Holland. Play to our strengths: pace, strength, aerial ability, etc.

[mrmojorisin75]

Maybe a better approach would be to ask: how can we get the best out of the English system? We're never going to be like Brazil or Holland. Play to our strengths: pace, strength, aerial ability, etc.

Posted in another thread that's the way to go, personally i don't think it'll ever win us a WC as the South Americans would eat it up but it might be enough to fluke a Euro's a la Manu & Chelski getting good results in the CL by playing a high tempo physical game.  Eventually class will tell but we're more likely to succeed playing our way than pretending to be Italy and failing.

[Wullie]

This physicality can't be that much of a hindrance if the majority of players in the top league are foreign. Don't think it's too much to ask that we produce footballers rather than just cloggers that we then add foreign flair to. The north east is supposed to be football mad - in my lifetime we've not produced five players capable of playing consistently well in central midfield in the top flight (where technique is most important). That's got fuck all to do with physicality, it's disgraceful really.

[Doctor Zaius]

Isn't it just that more often than not the bigger more aggresive lads get picked up by clubs due to the nature of the PL. I've heard it many talented kids are rejected for being 'too small'.

 

But half the time, these lads are only bigger and more aggressive because they're more developed than the other kids their age. These lads that get picked up as kids are bigger, stronger and rely on their physical presence somewhat, which is only natural because if your bigger than everyone else your going to play to that. At the age they get picked up, touch, technique and other technical skills dont matter that much.

 

The problem then arises a few years down the line, the other kids catch up with them and they're no longer giants compared to everyone else and haven't got a massive physical presence anymore. Add that to the fact that technical skills become more important and these kids just arn't to the standard thats good enough and definitely no longer miles better than people their own age.

[Doctor Zaius]

Maybe a better approach would be to ask: how can we get the best out of the English system? We're never going to be like Brazil or Holland . Play to our strengths: pace, strength, aerial ability, etc.

 

I see no reason why we cant be like Holland. It's all about their system and how they are taught imo. Fairenough Brazil because our society is totally different, but Holland or France there's no reason we cant replicate what they do.

[Keefaz]

I wonder if it's possible to work backwards from a player and see how he developed? You take a Sheringham who was in many ways an atypical English player: slow, but read the game miles better than anyone else, brilliant touch and range of passing. How did he get to be like that when so few English players are?

[Parky]

This physicality can't be that much of a hindrance if the majority of players in the top league are foreign. Don't think it's too much to ask that we produce footballers rather than just cloggers that we then add foreign flair to. The north east is supposed to be football mad - in my lifetime we've not produced five players capable of playing consistently well in central midfield in the top flight (where technique is most important). That's got fuck all to do with physicality, it's disgraceful really.

Maybe a better approach would be to ask: how can we get the best out of the English system? We're never going to be like Brazil or Holland . Play to our strengths: pace, strength, aerial ability, etc.

 

I see no reason why we cant be like Holland. It's all about their system and how they are taught imo. Fairenough Brazil because our society is totally different, but Holland or France there's no reason we cant replicate what they do.

 

In Holland the 2/3 top clubs have really fantastic academies and IMO France with their national academy is a decade ahead of us. The Man Utd and West Ham academies I guess have been the most prolific in England.

 

 

Jérémie Aliadière

Nicolas Anelka

Habib Bamogo

Sébastien Bassong

Habib Bellaïd

Hatem Ben Arfa

Jimmy Briand      

Garra Dembélé

Cheik Doukouré

Abou Diaby      

Issiar Dia June     

William Gallas      

Thierry Henry

Jacques Faty

Ricardo Faty

Jirès Kembo Ekoko

Jonathan Martins

Blaise Matuidi          

Mourad Meghni

Gabriel Obertan

 

 

France U21

Grégory Sertic August 5, 1989 (1989-08-05) (age 20) France ES Viry-Châtillon 2003–2005 France Bordeaux France Bordeaux France France U21

Jérôme Rothen March 31, 1978 (1978-03-31) (age 32) France Versailles FC 1991–1994 France Caen Turkey Ankaragücü France France

Louis Saha August 8, 1978 (1978-08-08) (age 31) 1991–1994 France Metz England Everton France France

Moussa Sow January 19, 1986 (1986-01-19) (age 24) 1999–2001 France Mantes France Rennes

Quentin Westberg August 6, 1985 (1985-08-06) (age 24) 2000–2003 France Troyes France Troyes United States USA U20

 

 

[Guest Phil K]

Maybe a better approach would be to ask: how can we get the best out of the English system? We're never going to be like Brazil or Holland . Play to our strengths: pace, strength, aerial ability, etc.

 

I see no reason why we cant be like Holland. It's all about their system and how they are taught imo.

No, there ISN'T any reason why we can't do the same as Holland.

But there are too many "old hands" with no ability whatsoever in charge of academies up and down the country purely because they are ex-footballers, or friends of the manager.

In Holland it's people who have a history of doing it properly, and know what they're on about.

Whereas here - look at the peabrained footballers of now, obsessed with Bling and their mobile phones. In a few years some of them will expect to get jobs with academies here. The kids would do better having to teach themselves.

Ex footballers rarely make good ANYTHING in England.

The Dutch and Germans know that and suplement their ex-footballers with people with more knowledge than how to get on their Facebook account.

[Exiled in Texas]

Here is an interesting article that talks about how the youth and academy system is done in Holland and then compares and constrasts to the US and England. Warning: This article is very long... like HTT long.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?scp=4&sq=dutch%20soccer&st=cse

 

 

 

Excellent article - it shows how a club funded academy can look long term (one big sale funds several years of production) and control the player development if they truely believe in the process and peak the players at older ages, compared to the US Pay-to-Play process where the parents and in control and demand short term results with each seasons results.

[Village Idiot]

Here is an interesting article that talks about how the youth and academy system is done in Holland and then compares and constrasts to the US and England. Warning: This article is very long... like HTT long.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?scp=4&sq=dutch%20soccer&st=cse

 

 

 

Excellent article - it shows how a club funded academy can look long term (one big sale funds several years of production) and control the player development if they truely believe in the process and peak the players at older ages, compared to the US Pay-to-Play process where the parents and in control and demand short term results with each seasons results.

 

We have a very similar, although less radical, setup. Which is to be expected given the Dutch influence in our club. It helps we are the absolute biggest fish in Catalonia so every boy dreams of playing for us and we don't have the competition of an Ajax, PSV etc... in the same area.

 

Surely your lot could eventually do something similar in the northeast. You pretty much have that area for yourselves, although not being a local I might be wrong.

[Exiled in Texas]

I wonder what the Ajax academy costs to run on an annual basis - It can't be cheap, and if they are relying on selling a Wesley Sneijder every few years to break even that's quite a gamble.

 

We can only dream about this long term view of player development - meanwhile, the U10s are playing the mackems today and we'd better beat them 

[Village Idiot]

FWIW Barça's academy costs us €15m a year to run. It isn't that much for a club our size tbh.

[Gash]

It's easier tot just go to Barca's academy, nick their best players then sell them on for a big amount, probably back to them though...

[Exiled in Texas]

That's peanuts to Barca based on what it produces, but imagine a club spending that for 10 years while the grow in the process starting with the current crop of U8s. 

 

Not hard to see why a club decides to buy a player for 15M rather than gamble on producing one.

[Village Idiot]

Well, there's some returns. Players that don't make the grade are sold to other clubs, even the ones that leave because they don't have pro contracts (Arsenal  ) still command tribunal fees that cut down the yearly costs.

[OzzieMandias]

Here is an interesting article that talks about how the youth and academy system is done in Holland and then compares and constrasts to the US and England. Warning: This article is very long... like HTT long.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?scp=4&sq=dutch%20soccer&st=cse

 

 

 

Excellent article - it shows how a club funded academy can look long term (one big sale funds several years of production) and control the player development if they truely believe in the process and peak the players at older ages, compared to the US Pay-to-Play process where the parents and in control and demand short term results with each seasons results.

 

We have a very similar, although less radical, setup. Which is to be expected given the Dutch influence in our club. It helps we are the absolute biggest fish in Catalonia so every boy dreams of playing for us and we don't have the competition of an Ajax, PSV etc... in the same area.

 

Surely your lot could eventually do something similar in the northeast. You pretty much have that area for yourselves, although not being a local I might be wrong.

 

Well, us and Sunderland.

 

In the 1980s and early '90s our catchment area threw up some great footballers -- notably Beardsley, Waddle, Gascoigne, Shearer, Steve Bruce, Bryan Robson, but also many others scattered throughout the leagues. Most were developed not through NUFC, but by Wallsend Boys Club in the east of the city. It's an area which I think we'd all like to see the club taking more seriously.