World on alert Germans marching again!

[Exiled in Texas]

I think its largely down to the way football is coached at youth level. Ive watched under 11 to under 14 football at both the Villa acadamy and at local team level and its all about winning, power, booting the ball away from danger, not taking risks. Kids are not encouraged to express themselves.

 

Thats why so few England players look comfortable on the ball and even fewer can beat or even try to beat a man. (Chris Waddle summed this up perfectly the other night on Radio 5 in fact he speaks more sense then the rest of them put together)

 

We are years behind Holland, most of Southern Europe and South America. We can keep blaming the Manager's like we have done for the last 20 years or more but at the end of the day they can only work with meagre resources they have available.

 

This is a problem in America as well. For one, our biggest youth league is just something to allow kids to have fun and learn sportsmanship. But, with kids serious about getting better, there's not a general training idea, there's no organization. The main thing that's stressed is team work and winning, most of our practices are spent working on tactics and dead ball situations. We might spend twenty minutes a day, if that at the older levels, working on foot skills, touch, trapping, etc.

 

There's should be a set training philosophy that the country stresses, and it should mainly focus on working on foot skills and technical ability for kids under 13/14, with a little work on teamwork. And that point, once kids have developed enough you can start focusing on everything else.

 

The problem here is that coaches (and youth teams) get rated on win/loss records and how they do in their leagues, not on how good their skills are.  It's more effective to focus on tactics not skills.

 

The clubs are a business (regardless of their profit status) and they need to be attracting the best players to their clubs, and the only way they do that is by winning games. If coaches don't put out winning teams, then players (and their $$$) go to the club that is winning games. Unfortunately there are no style points.

[Wullie]

How much coaching is there in South America? Can't imagine they've got academies coming out of their ears.

[Thespence]

Winter breaks, homegrown rules.....success for England conflicts with success for the Premier League and in that situation, the money will always win. So I don't see anything changing for a long time.

 

It's all about money, basically. Blame our dumb post-Thatcherite culture where profit is everything. Far from reducing the number of games, for example, the FA were recently trying to add yet another one -- the 39th game, to be played, ludicrously, abroad, the better to boost the Prem's international marketing appeal.

 

Hope that is a typo because it was the PL not the FA that wanted game 39.

[CaliMag]

How much coaching is there in South America? Can't imagine they've got academies coming out of their ears.

What South America has: millions of urban poor with no X-Box and but loads of footie which is also seen as an escape route from poverty (rightly or wrongly).

[Exiled in Texas]

How much coaching is there in South America? Can't imagine they've got academies coming out of their ears.

What South America has: millions of urban poor with no X-Box and but loads of footie which is also seen as an escape route from poverty (rightly or wrongly).

 

But, that's just it......the game is the teacher, they spend all day/night playing small sided or 1-on-1 games with ball control and foot skills paramount over space, movement and tactics.

 

I think back to all the time spent playing 2v2 in the alley with my mates shooting at the garage door as the goal. You try to curl the ball top corner, you try to nutmeg your mates, you try the cruyff, pele, helicopter, toe drag as much as you can without a coach yelling at you to chase back and win the ball that you just lost.  No scores are kept in the informal games - only the bragging rights.

[Parky]

How much coaching is there in South America? Can't imagine they've got academies coming out of their ears.

What South America has: millions of urban poor with no X-Box and but loads of footie which is also seen as an escape route from poverty (rightly or wrongly).

 

Correct.

[Wullie]

How much coaching is there in South America? Can't imagine they've got academies coming out of their ears.

What South America has: millions of urban poor with no X-Box and but loads of footie which is also seen as an escape route from poverty (rightly or wrongly).

 

Well exactly, maybe the problem isn't not enough coaching or the quality of the coaching, it's simply too much coaching. These kids are being told what to do from 7 or 8 years old when they should be just messing around and trying stuff out. Nobody ever coached Lionel Messi to be able to get past 3 players at once.

[CaliMag]

How much coaching is there in South America? Can't imagine they've got academies coming out of their ears.

What South America has: millions of urban poor with no X-Box and but loads of footie which is also seen as an escape route from poverty (rightly or wrongly).

 

But, that's just it......the game is the teacher, they spend all day/night playing small sided or 1-on-1 games with ball control and foot skills paramount over space, movement and tactics.

 

I think back to all the time spent playing 2v2 in the alley with my mates shooting at the garage door as the goal. You try to curl the ball top corner, you try to nutmeg your mates, you try the cruyff, pele, helicopter, toe drag as much as you can without a coach yelling at you to chase back and win the ball that you just lost.  No scores are kept in the informal games - only the bragging rights.

 

Yeah, those days are gone. 

[CaliMag]

So what to do then? Force the kids outside? Someone would call the cops... probably.

 

Spend more on athletic oppurtunities/ greater subsidies for children's sport?

 

The UK spends a lot less on its children than other western european countries. But what to spend the money on? I know a few poeple that work in social policy and obvioulsy there are serious problems... but fixing them... f*ck knows.

[Thespence]

England has a bigger selection of professional players than any other nation. The fact they don't all play at Man Utd, Chelsea or in the PL is irrelevant. How much do we squeeze the list down to suit? PL? Big four? Champions?

 

Would not like to see England caps dished around like confetti but would like to see the England B team get more of a airing.

 

Wilkinson plan which meant kids could only play a certain number games is now starting to show it roots. If a 12 year old kid is told by a pro club he cant play for his school/boys club his parents will make sure this happens. But the kid looses some great skills because that  kid is more than likely the go to player in his school team or one of the better players at a boys club, he leads that team, he inspires that team & he learns to be a match winner.  Playing for the pro club under 12's the kid will find out he maybe is not the main man & find other players of similar or even better ability intimidating, so he doesn't develop.  Let the kids play football with there school chums/mates & let them go to the pro-clubs for coaching.

 

Watching 1st years kids play football is f***ing s****. Lets have at least 3 indoor tournaments for lads up to & including 2nd year kids. The FA could offer prize money based of pro-rota system on number of English qualified players.

 

FIFAs biggest youth tournament is the Under 20 W/C. Our clubs do not release players for this, that is why get whacked & why Jamie Carragher held the record for 12+ years as being the last player to score for England at the U20 W/C.

 

On a local tip

 

We had situation a few years back where Ralf Little had played at SJP more than people in our reserve team :-[. Make sure every team below 1st team plays a few games at SJP each season (at the start & end of the season when the ground is hard).

 

Get the reserve players training Saturday & Sunday morning so they are not out getting pissed on Friday & Saturday night.

 

All local players to be sent away at some point to Sweden, USA, Australia, Ireland because as we have seen through history most Geordie need to move away to develop there game. It will make them into men. Me personally I would send the mouthiest newbie each season to Berwick Rangers for a month, when he comes back & tells the rest of them about doing a road trip to Elgin they would knuckle down.

 

Could rant on but there is no point

[Incognito]

Kids in this country aren't asked to respect and cherish the ball,more to run up and down the pitch all day,and hoof it as long as possible.Plus the over zealous parents who watch their kids,lots of whom are satisfied to see their kid "get stuck in".Is it any wonder our teams can't keep the ball for sustained periods?

[Magpie]

How much coaching is there in South America? Can't imagine they've got academies coming out of their ears.

What South America has: millions of urban poor with no X-Box and but loads of footie which is also seen as an escape route from poverty (rightly or wrongly).

 

100% spot on!

[Parky]

@ thespence - Good post but the first sentence is factually incorrect unless you are talking about considering league one players for eng etc..?

[Thespence]

Is it any wonder our teams can't keep the ball for sustained periods?

 

My future England team would have Huddlestone & Carrick sitting in front of the defence. The 6 ft 3 in Huddlestone would also be told he has to get his head/challenge for the ball when the oppo keeper kicks it, the CB's would be detailed to mop up.

 

 

[Thespence]

@ thespence - Good post but the first sentence is factually incorrect unless you are talking about considering league one players for eng etc..?

 

It is correct. We have more pro-leagues, more pro-teams & more pro footballers than any other country. We have the volume of players. The FA need to work out is it best spunking £5 million a year on Sven & £6 million a year on Fabio or is better to trying to find a way to improve the quantity of players we have in this country.

[Parky]

@ thespence - Good post but the first sentence is factually incorrect unless you are talking about considering league one players for eng etc..?

 

It is correct. We have more pro-leagues, more pro-teams & more pro footballers than any other country. We have the volume of players. The FA need to work out is it best spunking £5 million a year on Sven & £6 million a year on Fabio or is better to trying to find a way to improve the quantity of players we have in this country.

 

Only 35% of PL players are available for England compared to 50% of the Spanish top league. There are 364 foreign players in the Pl and 230 odd in the CCC even. Where it really matters at the top clubs where players gain top flight experience the data is even worse ie 20% on average.

[Doctor Zaius]

11 a side.

 

Kids go into 11 a side too early for me. They're supposed to play on smaller pitches, but with pitches difficult to find as it is, the chances of a smaller 11 a side pitch for young'uns is rare. What is it they go into 11 a side? under 13s? You've got these 12 and 13 year olds playing on these massive pitches that men play on. It only encourages kick and rush football, it also causes problems for the smaller less developed lads as the bigger more developed lads prevail. How anyone can expect kids to learn to play good passing football while playing on massive pitches is beyond me.

 

The attitude of academies need to be looked at as well. Players being released because they're too small, f*** off man. If you look at a lot of academy teams at under 14's, 15's and 16's they consist of giants, obviously more developed kids. The little lads get left behind, they dont get picked up and thus they dont get the correct training and development which allows them to become better players.

 

Having been through the system, having only finished playing junior football last year, having seen how they do things abroad and having relatives in the academy system currently, these are definitely 2 points that i've picked up on.

 

Shambles tbh, clubs, the FA and those in charge of grass roots football need to take a look at how countries on the continent such as France, Germany and in particular Holland do things.

[Thespence]

Players being released because they're too small, f*** off man. If you look at a lot of academy teams at under 14's, 15's and 16's they consist of giants, obviously more developed kids. The little lads get left behind, they dont get picked up and thus they dont get the correct training and development which allows them to become better players.

 

I once had the misfortune of watching Andy Mowgo play for our Under 16's a few years back. Big African lad fucking hopeless. Obi/Binnsy has he got any better? I.E can he pass a ball?

 

http://www.nufc.co.uk/articles/20091201/andy-mogwo-1st-year-midfielder_2268835_1891911

[CaliMag]

Here is an interesting article that talks about how the youth and academy system is done in Holland and then compares and constrasts to the US and England. Warning: This article is very long... like HTT long.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?scp=4&sq=dutch%20soccer&st=cse

 

 

[CaliMag]

If you can't be bothered to read the above article there is also a video/podcast of it and a even an abreviated slide show.

[Greg]

Here is an interesting article that talks about how the youth and academy system is done in Holland and then compares and constrasts to the US and England. Warning: This article is very long... like HTT long.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?scp=4&sq=dutch%20soccer&st=cse

 

 

 

Good read that and considerably better than anything HTT has ever penned.

[OzzieMandias]

Here is an interesting article that talks about how the youth and academy system is done in Holland and then compares and constrasts to the US and England. Warning: This article is very long... like HTT long.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?scp=4&sq=dutch%20soccer&st=cse

 

 

 

Very good read. Thanks for that.

[chicago_shearer]

 

Filthy German bastard.

[NG32]

Its pretty evident from just this thread alon we can all agree we aren't producing players with "ball control, touch and movement".

 

I think some of the pundits are also saying this along with a few other things.

 

As mentioned earlier, we've just got to let the kids discover football skill themselves, maybe set up game for them on a small scale with rules "one or two touch".

 

 

[David28]

 

Filthy German bastard.