World on alert Germans marching again!

[TaylorJ_01]

In the interests of balance, Owen could have scored goals if he was there TBF. I reckon, if his reputation is anything near what it was in the likes of Algeria and Slovenia, he'd have at least made more space for Rooney to operate in who might just have done something. Imagine him with Heskey's chances or Wright-Phillips' chance or Defoe's second chance. It's entirely plausible we would still be in the competition if a fit and in form Michael Owen played as Rooney's strike partner.

 

Or maybe he would have fallen over, twisted his ankle and ruined our game plan in the very first game.

 

Have you forgotten what happened here? Owen is awful now. He hasn't even been good for Man U. You are saying that based purely on reputation which is most of the reason we got so badly fucked over by him.

[Parky]

In the interests of balance, Owen could have scored goals if he was there TBF. I reckon, if his reputation is anything near what it was in the likes of Algeria and Slovenia, he'd have at least made more space for Rooney to operate in who might just have done something. Imagine him with Heskey's chances or Wright-Phillips' chance or Defoe's second chance. It's entirely plausible we would still be in the competition if a fit and in form Michael Owen played as Rooney's strike partner.

 

Or maybe he would have fallen over, twisted his ankle and ruined our game plan in the very first game.

 

Have you forgotten what happened here? Owen is awful now. He hasn't even been good for Man U. You are saying that based purely on reputation which is most of the reason we got so badly fucked over by him.

 

Owen has been finished for about 5 years or so. Too much football when in his teens and too many niggling injuries.

[Jayson]

No to answer your questions, but beating one team doesn't mean you're automatically capable of beating an 'inferior' team at International level, no less at a WC where the Algerian's were likely playing for more than the next sponsorship deal as I felt England's 'names' were.

 

The point is, and always has been, that the physical kick and rush approach of the PL will win against the slower continental game but very rarely when it counts at a major tournament.  When it gets to that point you need more than enthusiam and physical strength. 

 

The CL back that up to an extent, it goes in cycles of English teams performing pretty well and playing to their strengths but falling short interspersed with a rare win.

 

Go look back at how we went out of the 3 tournaments 2002-2006. The oppositions we were playing supposedly have exactly what you think we need, yet what put them through? Being better at penalties & one fluked freekick from the eventual world champions to win by a goal.

 

Your argument doesnt stack up. Its an overreaction.

[Geordie Boot Boy]

In the interests of balance, Owen could have scored goals if he was there TBF. I reckon, if his reputation is anything near what it was in the likes of Algeria and Slovenia, he'd have at least made more space for Rooney to operate in who might just have done something. Imagine him with Heskey's chances or Wright-Phillips' chance or Defoe's second chance. It's entirely plausible we would still be in the competition if a fit and in form Michael Owen played as Rooney's strike partner.

 

Or maybe he would have fallen over, twisted his ankle and ruined our game plan in the very first game.

 

Have you forgotten what happened here? Owen is awful now. He hasn't even been good for Man U. You are saying that based purely on reputation which is most of the reason we got so badly f***ed over by him.

 

Reputations matter. If the defences of the group stage teams feared him, Rooney may have been given more space as the defences dropped off. He might not have done much of it or maybe he would've been more successful at playing clever passes in behind the defence.

 

And I don't think he's awful now. He's not as good as he was but his eye for goal is still there. He was awful for us because he didn't really give a shit whereas he would for England.

 

I think there's a fair chance his presence in the team would have improved our results. I certainly don't think it's so overwhelmingly obvious that he wouldn't that there should be as strong a consensus against him as there seems to be on here. That's really the point of my posting anything about this at all.

 

And, as I said, I'd have backed him to have scored any of those chances (Heskey's, Wright-Phillips' and certainly Defoe's chance after half time). Considering the narrowest of margins by which we finished second, a single extra goal in any of the games could've made a huge difference.

[Ocho]

Interesting read on the BBC.

 

Rather than too many foreigners in the PL, the English don't have enough players going abroad to learn 'better' football skills.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8727084.stm

[TaylorJ_01]

Interesting read on the BBC.

 

Rather than too many foreigners in the PL, the English don't have enough players going abroad to learn 'better' football skills.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8727084.stm

 

Would probably be the 564th article of it's kind.

[mrmojorisin75]

No to answer your questions, but beating one team doesn't mean you're automatically capable of beating an 'inferior' team at International level, no less at a WC where the Algerian's were likely playing for more than the next sponsorship deal as I felt England's 'names' were.

 

The point is, and always has been, that the physical kick and rush approach of the PL will win against the slower continental game but very rarely when it counts at a major tournament.  When it gets to that point you need more than enthusiam and physical strength. 

 

The CL back that up to an extent, it goes in cycles of English teams performing pretty well and playing to their strengths but falling short interspersed with a rare win.

 

Go look back at how we went out of the 3 tournaments 2002-2006. The oppositions we were playing supposedly have exactly what you think we need, yet what put them through? Being better at penalties & one fluked freekick from the eventual world champions to win by a goal.

 

Your argument doesnt stack up. Its an overreaction.

 

Actually it's not is it?  If it was an overreaction history would have England winning more than a single cup on home soil in '66 (with a helping hand 'fluke' goal I might add).  It would have us in more semi-finals etc... can't remember the stats but it's something like 17 major semi's the Krauts have played in vs 2 from England during the same period.

 

Pretty confident my argument stacks up quite nicely thanks.

[mrmojorisin75]

Interesting read on the BBC.

 

Rather than too many foreigners in the PL, the English don't have enough players going abroad to learn 'better' football skills.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8727084.stm

 

fuck me i and others said that ages ago, makes more sense than anything else i've heard for a lack of progress in our game

[Parky]

How many Eng players would top tier foreign clubs want anyway. 3 maybe 4 of them?

[Jayson]

Actually it's not is it?  If it was an overreaction history would have England winning more than a single cup on home soil in '66 (with a helping hand 'fluke' goal I might add).  It would have us in more semi-finals etc... can't remember the stats but it's something like 17 major semi's the Krauts have played in vs 2 from England during the same period.

 

Pretty confident my argument stacks up quite nicely thanks.

 

No, all that says its that theres a reason we're not doing as well as we should. It doesnt mean the one you're suggesting is correct does it?

[Jayson]

Interesting read on the BBC.

 

Rather than too many foreigners in the PL, the English don't have enough players going abroad to learn 'better' football skills.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8727084.stm

 

Would probably be the 564th article of it's kind.

 

The Germans all playing in the bundesliga pretty much disproves the idea being that significant. Unless you believe theyre learning far more skills by playing in Germany than ours do in England.

 

The style of play they're learning gives them no advantages when our club teams meet though. So doesnt really add up again.

[mrmojorisin75]

 

 

The point is, and always has been, that the physical kick and rush approach of the PL will win against the slower continental game but very rarely when it counts at a major tournament.  When it gets to that point you need more than enthusiam and physical strength. 

 

The CL back that up to an extent, it goes in cycles of English teams performing pretty well and playing to their strengths but falling short interspersed with a rare win.

 

Ironic you say that, given that England had more possession and Germany's first goal came from a route one goal kick and brute strength from the striker. The type of goal Allardyce would be proud of.

 

I think the Champions League is a particularly bad example for the point you're trying to make, as English teams have done very well in recent years.

 

general play in that game they were fast and imaginative, far from route one

 

champions league is the perfect example: British teams "do well" by getting to the quarters/semi's or whatever but have won it 3 (?) times since it started i think... Spanish team have won it at least 5, Italian probably the same...

 

fact is with the investment in the league over the last 10 - 15 years and the frequency with which it's played (yearly not every 4) you'd have expected them to do better but again the British style of play will fail more often than it will succeed against south american / European teams

 

if the world cup was played every year England would win it at some point, is what i'm saying in a roundabout way, as they'd be exposed to it more frequently and would be able to adapt their style more as they do in the CL...once every 2/4 years isn't enough imo whereas the other sides play that way the whole time, it's their style!

 

[Parky]

Interesting read on the BBC.

 

Rather than too many foreigners in the PL, the English don't have enough players going abroad to learn 'better' football skills.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8727084.stm

 

Would probably be the 564th article of it's kind.

 

The Germans all playing in the bundesliga pretty much disproves the idea being that significant. Unless you believe theyre learning far more skills by playing in Germany than ours do in England.

 

The style of play they're learning gives them no advantages when our club teams meet though. So doesnt really add up again.

 

I live here and they are. German coaching and pitch intelligence is streets ahead as is fitness and attitude development. That's why Hargraves was so good last time out.

[Keefaz]

Germans want to win, like. I played 7-a-side in Germany most weekends and they were nuts.

[stozo]

I think their are several reasons more players do not go abroad, some stated in the above article. In general, far more European's have better language skills that they have picked up from primary school onwards and I think it a tough decision for a English player to move to a country where he cannot speak the language and knows nobody.

 

This is combined with the fact wages tend to be tighter on the continent in recent years. Most players would need a pay rise for them to see going abroad as worthwhile and often that is just not available so they stay with what they know.

[Wullie]

I'd love to know how many bids clubs get for their English players from abroad. Bet it's hardly any.

[OzzieMandias]

World Cup 2010: How Germany planned a flair revolution

 

The transformation of Germany's football has been based on an attention to detail and investment in young talent that shames the FA and Premier League...

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/jul/02/world-cup-2010-germany-flair

[Parky]

World Cup 2010: How Germany planned a flair revolution

 

The transformation of Germany's football has been based on an attention to detail and investment in young talent that shames the FA and Premier League...

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/jul/02/world-cup-2010-germany-flair

 

This is what I'm trying to point out to people carping on about most of the German players playing in the Bundesliga. It's light years ahead player development wise to anything in England.

[The Prophet]

While Germany's youngsters have looked impressive at times they've still got a lot to prove. They may well go on to achieve great things but at the same time the media are going on as if they've already made it because they dumped out a woeful England side.

[NG32]

While Germany's youngsters have looked impressive at times they've still got a lot to prove. They may well go on to achieve great things but at the same time the media are going on as if they've already made it because they dumped out a woeful England side.

 

Aye no doubt they have got a lot to prove and will have a few low periods but they tonked our shower of shit.

 

 

[Exiled in Texas]

Great comment from Jurgy Lowww in that Guardian article

 

" "I've had a scenario in my mind for months: this is the kind of football I want to play at the World Cup. We've been aiming for that. I didn't just want to impose some tactics on the players. Rather, this is what I wanted to do, and I selected the players around that."

[David28]

Great comment from Jurgy Lowww in that Guardian article

 

" "I've had a scenario in my mind for months: this is the kind of football I want to play at the World Cup. We've been aiming for that. I didn't just want to impose some tactics on the players. Rather, this is what I wanted to do, and I selected the players around that."

 

Posted that before in the Capello thread. Think that's the right thing to do and not the other way around. (like Capello seemed to do)

[Parky]

Piecemeal destruction of Argentina confirms German bid. An almost flawless display of counterattacking football with two fulcrum midfielders. Puts the Eng game in perspective.

[mrmojorisin75]

Piecemeal destruction of Argentina confirms German bid. An almost flawless display of counterattacking football with two fulcrum midfielders. Puts the Eng game in perspective.

Where's Jayson?

[Rich]

Any need to change yet another thread title, you power-hungry egotist?