ponsaelius Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 I can't believe having watched us consistently last season and throughout this pre-season people seem to think this squad can get by purely with a happy go lucky team spirit. We desperately need quality players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovejoy Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Cleverley will never make the Man Utd team. We'd be building him up for ourselves if we really wanted him. a lot of man utd fans I know, and my cousin who is a coach there, disagree. they reckon fergie rates him. I'm sure they thought the same about Welbeck a year ago too and before him Eagles, Campbell, Simpson. Every Man Utd youngster is hyped up but few of them make it. We've already got players who looked better than Cleverley against the same opposition. If he wasn't on Man Utds books who would want him? Nobody. Ben Arfa is already well ahead with loads of European football experience and International caps. I agree with the Ben Arfa point, hence I said I'd rather have him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovejoy Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Cleverley will never make the Man Utd team. We'd be building him up for ourselves if we really wanted him. a lot of man utd fans I know, and my cousin who is a coach there, disagree. they reckon fergie rates him. I'm sure they thought the same about Welbeck a year ago too and before him Eagles, Campbell, Simpson. Every Man Utd youngster is hyped up but few of them make it. We've already got players who looked better than Cleverley against the same opposition. If he wasn't on Man Utds books who would want him? Nobody. Ben Arfa is already well ahead with loads of European football experience and International caps. p.s - i dont recall any fans down here raving about campbell, simpson or eagles. wellbeck you may have a point, but then again, he's too young to say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segun Oluwaniyi Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 I reckon Ben Arfa would have a negative impact on the team. Cleverley would have a small positive impact. Bollocks, you're blowing this way out of proportion. He's positively helped teams to 5 Ligue 1 titles at the age of 23. It's not as if he went round picking fights with everybody in his way you know, you're making him out to be some kind of mental anarchist. 5 teams? He's only been a serious part of two winning teams, and he was hardly a top player for either l'OM or Lyon. Deschamps kept him on the substitutes bench most of the time. He clearly has mental stability issues, but I think this can be overcome. Also, if we buy him for less than 7 million euros, we are probaly selling at a profit. Cleverly will leave and we will have to spend to replace him, which will result in a net loss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Aye, in future we shouldn't sign any genuine quality in case it upsets big Kev and the lads. Christ. Our survival is not dependent on a few players being good, more it relies on 5-8 players not being bad. Rock the boat with an individual like Ben Arfa, watch team morale drop, and watch NUFC drop down the league just like before. Geovanni 2008-9 season disagrees. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Aye, in future we shouldn't sign any genuine quality in case it upsets big Kev and the lads. Christ. Our survival is not dependent on a few players being good, more it relies on 5-8 players not being bad. Rock the boat with an individual like Ben Arfa, watch team morale drop, and watch NUFC drop down the league just like before. Our survival depends on us being able to score enough goals against the dross that fills the bottom half of the league, currently our attack isn't good enough to do this. Have you actually got any evidence Ben Arfa is a bad apple as a pose to a stereotypically sulky Frenchman? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovejoy Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Aye, in future we shouldn't sign any genuine quality in case it upsets big Kev and the lads. Christ. Our survival is not dependent on a few players being good, more it relies on 5-8 players not being bad. Rock the boat with an individual like Ben Arfa, watch team morale drop, and watch NUFC drop down the league just like before. Geovanni 2008-9 season disagrees. good point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 I reckon Ben Arfa would have a negative impact on the team. Cleverley would have a small positive impact. Bollocks, you're blowing this way out of proportion. He's positively helped teams to 5 Ligue 1 titles at the age of 23. It's not as if he went round picking fights with everybody in his way you know, you're making him out to be some kind of mental anarchist. 5 teams? He's only been a serious part of two winning teams, and he was hardly a top player for either l'OM or Lyon. Deschamps kept him on the substitutes bench most of the time. He clearly has mental stability issues, but I think this can be overcome. Also, if we buy him for less than 7 million euros, we are probaly selling at a profit. Cleverly will leave and we will have to spend to replace him, which will result in a net loss. Whatever man, he has 5 Ligue 1 titles in his locker and appearences, assists and goals in that time. That already puts him ahead of Cleverley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 I reckon Ben Arfa would have a negative impact on the team. Cleverley would have a small positive impact. Bollocks, you're blowing this way out of proportion. He's positively helped teams to 5 Ligue 1 titles at the age of 23. It's not as if he went round picking fights with everybody in his way you know, you're making him out to be some kind of mental anarchist. 5 teams? He's only been a serious part of two winning teams, and he was hardly a top player for either l'OM or Lyon. Deschamps kept him on the substitutes bench most of the time. He clearly has mental stability issues, but I think this can be overcome. Also, if we buy him for less than 7 million euros, we are probaly selling at a profit. Cleverly will leave and we will have to spend to replace him, which will result in a net loss. Whatever man, he has 5 Ligue 1 titles in his locker and appearences, assists and goals in that time. That already puts him ahead of Cleverley. Aye but Cleverly helped Watford survive in the Championship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Aye, in future we shouldn't sign any genuine quality in case it upsets big Kev and the lads. Christ. Our survival is not dependent on a few players being good, more it relies on 5-8 players not being bad. Rock the boat with an individual like Ben Arfa, watch team morale drop, and watch NUFC drop down the league just like before. Our survival depends on us being able to score enough goals against the dross that fills the bottom half of the league, currently our attack isn't good enough to do this. Have you actually got any evidence Ben Arfa is a bad apple as a pose to a stereotypically sulky Frenchman? People posted links to articles when he was first linked. Yes we do need quality players, probably 5 or 6, but buy the wrong ones and you end up with the Newcastle non-team that got themselves relegated with players that showed up against the big teams, and then lost to Hull. Ben Arfa is a wrong one, and I personally don't think Hughton even wants him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 I reckon Ben Arfa would have a negative impact on the team. Cleverley would have a small positive impact. Bollocks, you're blowing this way out of proportion. He's positively helped teams to 5 Ligue 1 titles at the age of 23. It's not as if he went round picking fights with everybody in his way you know, you're making him out to be some kind of mental anarchist. 5 teams? He's only been a serious part of two winning teams, and he was hardly a top player for either l'OM or Lyon. Deschamps kept him on the substitutes bench most of the time. He clearly has mental stability issues, but I think this can be overcome. Also, if we buy him for less than 7 million euros, we are probaly selling at a profit. Cleverly will leave and we will have to spend to replace him, which will result in a net loss. Baba could you give a bit more info on what some of his issues have been? I think with Hughton we have a manager with a very good temperament who will be able to control the situation. One of my favourite things about Hughton is his temperament. Think it will be crucial this season. If we still had Kinnear in charge for example theres no way I would want us to have anything to do with Ben Arfa. Before long Kinnear would be on his back like he was with Xisco and "Insomnia". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 I can't believe having watched us consistently last season and throughout this pre-season people seem to think this squad can get by purely with a happy go lucky team spirit. We desperately need quality players. Absofuckinglutely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VegasToon Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Is this real? An argument over whether we should have Arfa perminately or Cleaverly on loan? :idiot2: :idiot2: :idiot2: :idiot2: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 I still think if we're playing 4-5-1, then we can get away with having someone like Ben Arfa as an attacking-midfielder, you need someone with a little bit of magic and he has that. Think he'd be perfect for what we have already. A targetman, two speedy wingers, a tough tackling midfielder and a good passer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 I can't believe having watched us consistently last season and throughout this pre-season people seem to think this squad can get by purely with a happy go lucky team spirit. We desperately need quality players. Absofuckinglutely. I don't think anyone will disagree. However, it is possible to have a different opinion on what will make a quality player for the team we've got. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Aye, in future we shouldn't sign any genuine quality in case it upsets big Kev and the lads. Christ. Our survival is not dependent on a few players being good, more it relies on 5-8 players not being bad. Rock the boat with an individual like Ben Arfa, watch team morale drop, and watch NUFC drop down the league just like before. Our survival depends on us being able to score enough goals against the dross that fills the bottom half of the league, currently our attack isn't good enough to do this. Have you actually got any evidence Ben Arfa is a bad apple as a pose to a stereotypically sulky Frenchman? People posted links to articles when he was first linked. Yes we do need quality players, probably 5 or 6, but buy the wrong ones and you end up with the Newcastle non-team that got themselves relegated with players that showed up against the big teams, and then lost to Hull. Ben Arfa is a wrong one, and I personally don't think Hughton even wants him. ...but get it right and you end with a player like Robert who helped us into the upper echelons of the league. You can't be scared of being ambitious becuase of who it might upset, take Bellamy for instance I'd have him back here in a flash. Anyway even if a player was to play up I have no doubt it would have minimal impact on the team ethic given how closely knit the dressing room is supposed to be. Oh and I think we know it was more than a lack of team spirit that sent us down given the evident problems off the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 I can't believe having watched us consistently last season and throughout this pre-season people seem to think this squad can get by purely with a happy go lucky team spirit. We desperately need quality players. Absofuckinglutely. I don't think anyone will disagree. However, it is possible to have a different opinion on what will make a quality player for the team we've got. Talent, technique, skill, pace, flair. Team spirit doesn't do anything for any of those, and yet they're what we are missing in abundance. Ideally we want team spirit too, but quality always wins out in this league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 If I were Taylor27 I wouldn't dare fart in fear of shitting myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segun Oluwaniyi Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 HBA's problem is that he is an idiot, Kaka. People dislike him, some more than others. He of course had the now famous row with Diaby at Clairefontaine, which he quite lucky to escape from. At Lyon, he quarreled with several players and despite some top quality performances, they took the 10 million or so from OM and moved on. At Marseille, he has been petulant and quarreled with Deschamps. Despite some top quality performances, the team have decided to take the currency and move on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Geordie Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Ben Arfa or Cleverly? The former every time because the kid has pedigree. I also agree a million percent that good team spirit only gets you so far - we need quality in to take us that bit further. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Yes we do need quality players, probably 5 or 6, but buy the wrong ones and you end up with the Newcastle non-team that got themselves relegated with players that showed up against the big teams, and then lost to Hull. Ben Arfa is a wrong one, and I personally don't think Hughton even wants him. How the fuck did you even begin to come up with either of those presumptions? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 We have no one like him right no, not even Jonas, because this lad actually seems to have end product. I also think 'moody' can be mis-interpreted as competitive and wanting to win, right now I see no reason not to try him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 James has slipped back to being really really shit again I see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segun Oluwaniyi Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 We have no one like him right no, not even Jonas, because this lad actually seems to have end product. I also think 'moody' can be mis-interpreted as competitive and wanting to win, right now I see no reason not to try him. He's been misinterpreted at every step of his career. At some point this becomes a personal problem, not an everyone else problem. I think he'd be a quality player for us and a risk we should take. I wish people would stop trying to deny his problems, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Cheers, Baba. Well it looks like he is just a bit of a brat really. He is still very young, so hopefully as he continues to mature his behaviour should improve. Now you mention it, I do remember that he had issues with Benzema at Lyon. Maybe he feels like he should be more of a centrepiece of the team. Seems like the sort who wants to be the main man, with things centred around him. He'll certainly have more of this sort of opportunity at Newcastle, so it might suit him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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