Hatem Ben Arfa

[merlin]

Lets get real here.

 

He is a player with a suspect temperament, not unlike what we have already experienced with Insomnia. He might well be a creative player but he seems to have a suspect work rate.

 

Those of you remarking about his call up for France might ;like to remember that the entire French world cup squad has been overlooked. In hindsight, he is more like a French reserve.

 

Furthermore, why hasnt any top team come in for him? Why doesnt Marseille want to keep him? A well respected manager like Deschamps will not suffer fools gladly so maybe 6 m illion quid is just too much of a risk to take under our current financial and squad moral boosting circumstances.

 

Fuirthermore, Hughton and Ashley might have other, possibly better fish to fry here.

ri

On a financial note, 6 million pounds may well be better used on more than one player considering our apparent financial limitations

 

quality players win you games, simple as, or would you rather want us to spend 6 million on 2 potential nicky butt's

 

Teams win you games. The quality player is only effective in the context of the team.

 

Quality players make teams play better and can win you matches from moment's of brilliance, the best example is when we signed robert and bellamy, which turned us from a team that finished 11th to a team that finished 4th.

 

Or would you rather go back to the days of Gordon Lee, no stars policy

 

From what I can gather, you weren't even born when Lee was running NUFC ; that was in 1975-77....

 

No doubt you have listened to lots of things that press guys said about Lee's teams, but here is the truth.

 

When Lee took over, the club were going backwards under Joe Harvey who was at the end of his time as NUFC manager. We had Supermac, Irving Nattrass and Alan Kennedy(probably the best 2 fullbacks the club has had in the last 40 years),Tommy Craig(Scottish Int with brilliant left foot), Mickey Burns(consistent goalscorer, look it up), Tommy Cassidy(NI int) and others including Geoff Nulty who Lee turned into a great box-to-box midfielder.

 

Lee brought in Alan Gowling and many of us, including me, were mystified, but Gowling went on to score 30 goals that season and even Supermac, who many thought Lee wanted to get rid of, scored 20.

 

Lee changed the way the team played and altered some players' positions and we were poor for the first part of the season but after Christmas, we really flew. We beat Everton 5-0 at SJP(and it should have been 7 easily), Spurs 3-2 over a two-legged semi in the LC to get to Wembley, Coventry 4-0 at SJP in an FA Cup game, Derby(title challengers) 4-3 in an epic at SJP, then finally beat Bolton 2-1 after 2 great games

in the FA Cup.

Only the fact that the side got flu stopped us beating Man C at Wembley in my opinion and the same factor caused us to be knocked out of the FAC in the quarter-finals...all in one season.

 

Has any manager given us such good cup runs in the last 40 years ? In the same season ?

 

Lee was no genius - he did have a problem with Macdonald - but he DIDN'T have a problem with stars because many of the team WERE stars at the time.

 

He sold Macdonald in the close season and wanted to replace him with the young Trevor Francis, then at Brum, but Brum wanted 500,000 and the board would only give Lee the 333,333 they got for Supermac so nobody was signed.

Despite that, the club were in the top 4 by Xmas, then Everton came in for Lee and he went. Dinnis took over and despite the club qualifying for the UEFA Cup, they were relegated next season.

 

Everyone blames Lee, but his record at SJP was far from bad. NO manager could succeed with the old board and KK wouldn't have come within 100 mls of the place had they still been in charge.

 

Brian Clough took John McGovern to each of the main clubs he managed yet nobody thought HE was a 'star' - you need a proper blend to make a team....

 

[Guest zinaldo1982]

From what i have read they are saying that he is going to take his time and only think about the game against norway for france and then make up his mind about where he would end up but he is still liking the destination of england because both germany and portugal leagues are not as high profile as the premier league.

 

There are also talks of an agreement between us and ben arfa or marseille but not sure about that of a loan with an option to buy him for 7m euros.

[macca888]

Macca my man, There is an element of risk with every player you buy which is pretty much stating the obvious, signing a player of his quality gives us a major shot in the arm in our fight for survival, yes he has attitude / tempremental problems but f*** it, the boy has incredible talent, has youth on his side etc... I think it's a risk well worth f***ing taking and we could really reap the rewards imo

You have some relevant points there but the major one is whether we can afford to take a risk at this particular time.

 

It is widely regarded that this year will be one where we have to consolidate and avoid relegation at any cost thnen to rebuild season by season. Taking a risk on a french playb oy who at the age of 23 has already been virtually kicked out of two of the best clubs in France because he cannot, it would appear, be disciplined is not something which will help our case.

 

Whilst skillful, as Merlin says, workrate is just as much a priority in the PL as anything else and if he cannot conform to the team pattern, there will be problems and it wouldnt be long before he was being kicked out of club no.3.

 

By the way, your point about Bellamy and Robert is incorrect. Whilst they were good contributors to the success that season, most of the squad improved out of sight and this should not be forgotten. 

[Ronaldo]

Improved out of sight?

 

Those two turned 11th into 4th, man. They were by far our best players that season.

[Guest Haris Vuckic]

Was it not 3rd?

[KaKa]

Well I reckon thats it then, if we were interested we have left it far far too late to tie up the deal.  His inclusion in the France squad will have bumped up his valuation, and Benfica have now got £18m to spend after selling Ramires to Chelsea, so we can't hope to compete for Ben Arfa they will simply outbid us, also, the time wasted trying to tie up this deal means we have also missed out on Cleverley.  Looks like we will have to rely on the kids now!

 

:lol:

 

Oh my God!

[Guest Chubby Jason]

It's Veloso and Michael Johnson all over again, make a bid that's never going to be accepted and they walk away claiming we tried our best and then sign either a free transfer or no one at all.

 

I'm sure we did the same thing with Victor Moses and Giles Barnes as well.

[Ronaldo]

Was it not 3rd?

 

No.

[Guest BooBoo]

It's Veloso and Michael Johnson all over again, make a bid that's never going to be accepted and they walk away claiming we tried our best and then sign either a free transfer or no one at all.

 

I'm sure we did the same thing with Victor Moses and Giles Barnes as well.

 

You can add Keiron Richardson to the that list too.

[Cronky]

Lets get real here.

 

He is a player with a suspect temperament, not unlike what we have already experienced with Insomnia. He might well be a creative player but he seems to have a suspect work rate.

 

Those of you remarking about his call up for France might ;like to remember that the entire French world cup squad has been overlooked. In hindsight, he is more like a French reserve.

 

Furthermore, why hasnt any top team come in for him? Why doesnt Marseille want to keep him? A well respected manager like Deschamps will not suffer fools gladly so maybe 6 m illion quid is just too much of a risk to take under our current financial and squad moral boosting circumstances.

 

Fuirthermore, Hughton and Ashley might have other, possibly better fish to fry here.

 

On a financial note, 6 million pounds may well be better used on more than one player considering our apparent financial limitations

 

quality players win you games, simple as, or would you rather want us to spend 6 million on 2 potential nicky butt's

 

This is the second time you have said this - the truth is that quality players WITH GOOD ATTITUDE win you games ; those with temperament problems cost at least as many points as they help to win by causing dissention  within the squad and by not pulling their weight in ALL matches and not just those in which they feel like it that day.

 

Why do you think we are scrapping around after players like this when other clubs are buying proven quality ? The answer is that we CAN'T AFFORD players with skill AND good attitude. It will take YEARS to build a good set-up at NUFC because it will have to be done by using an expert scouting system to spot players before they get snapped up at a young age and by developing the Academy talent - there is no other way because NUFC cannot compete with clubs like Man U, Liverpool, Man C and the London clubs on a glamour basis.

 

I say again - I would rather have taken Cleverley on loan than this guy for 5m because Cleverley has a proven record at Watford and whilst playing for Man U in pre-season, and is rated by SAF. It is a racing certainty that he would have given 100% whilst with us and that is something no French player has consistently done at SJP.

 

Comments such as the one you made about Butt are simply not worth talking about.

 

I'd basically agree with that.

 

This debate about the value of the maverick individual is probably the oldest one in football.

 

There's a subtle but significant difference between the talented but inconsistent player, and the selfish player. Players at all levels need to react well to the situation in front of them and that can mean a quick pass to a man in a better position. Obviously a talented player is going to have a wider range of possibilities, and may choose to go past an opponent. Fair enough, but you do get immature or selfish players who will always try to do the spectacular rather than the simple, regardless of the situation, because they're wrapped up in their own agendas on the pitch. I worry that Ben Arfa is still stuck in that phase.

 

If that player is equally selfish off the pitch, then that can create a bad atmosphere around the team, which needs to relax and concentrate on other things. Again, this lad seems to carry that danger with him.

[midds]

Improved out of sight?

 

Those two turned 11th into 4th, man. They were by far our best players that season.

 

Got to agree.

 

They were worth 20 points. They brought balance, pace and service/delivery into an average team.

[TaylorJ_01]

Not been here in a day. Is it over? Are we fucked?

[Guest BooBoo]

It's probably worth mentioning Shearer was great that year. Always remember his comeback from injury at Boro when we spanked them 4-1. Roberts best game for us IMO.

[Guest neesy111]

Improved out of sight?

 

Those two turned 11th into 4th, man. They were by far our best players that season.

 

This

 

Remember quality player's bring out the best in other's as well

[Guest neesy111]

It's probably worth mentioning Shearer was great that year. Always remember his comeback from injury at Boro when we spanked them 4-1. Roberts best game for us IMO.

 

He was, but he can thank craig bellamy for saving his career for another 2-3 years though

[OzzieMandias]

It's probably worth mentioning Shearer was great that year. Always remember his comeback from injury at Boro when we spanked them 4-1. Roberts best game for us IMO.

 

He was, but he can thank craig bellamy Bobby Robson for saving his career for another 2-3 years though

 

FYP

[Guest BooBoo]

Not sure about that. Robert supplied Shearer much better than Bellamy did.

[Guest neesy111]

Not sure about that. Robert supplied Shearer much better than Bellamy did.

 

Bellamy did all of the running for shearer

[Guest BooBoo]

He did some but Robert, Dyer, Nobby and Speed all probably made more goals for Shearer that year than Bellamy.

[David Icke - Son of God]

Bellamy and Robert were both equally as important for making Shearer a 20+ goal a season striker again.

[Ketsbaia]

maybe hughton is buying giovinco from juventus 

[Hughesy]

Never quite understood this whole Shearer's career was saved by Bellamy etc etc because Bellamy ran around and had pace.  Alternatively, you could say that Shearer's ability to actually score goals helped Bellamy not contributing goals to the team.  They were a good partnership that helped each other out and covered each other's weaknesses.  Regarding Bellamy as saving Shearer's career is pretty naive.

[Guest BooBoo]

Exactly.

[Disco]

It's probably worth mentioning Shearer was great that year. Always remember his comeback from injury at Boro when we spanked them 4-1. Roberts best game for us IMO.

 

He was, but he can thank craig bellamy for saving his career for another 2-3 years though

 

Why? Did he perform the operation on him?

 

Reverting back to playing with two out and out quality wingers was the catalyst for Shearer scoring again.

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

I'd like to think it was the whole team helping Shearer out, it was a fantastic team looking back (especially all things considered today). Speed and Lee in the middle, Dyer helping too. Time to get the DVDs out!